The Extra Cool Group! (of people Michael is experimenting on) discussion
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The Dysfunctional Relationship Between GR and Authors (at least in YA)
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Nancy
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Nov 30, 2010 09:15AM
OK, now I see three Chicago reviewers. The others don't specify a location. I only skimmed a few reviews, because I hate spoilers and Amazon reviewers are often careless about that. I am more curious about books when they have very strong negative and positive reviews. Sometimes I enjoy what others find negative and vice versa.
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you know I always think that's a good sign in workshop, when I teach Creative Writing: a division of opinion, those who love the work and those who hate it.If it's really good, really original, doesn't it often evoke that kind of response in a group of random readers?
Kathryn wrote: "I have no problem with authors marketing. I can only imagine the difficulty in being initially published and convincing people to read your book..."I don't either, but I've deleted authors who constantly promote their books on my update feed, or have just the books they've written on their shelf. I understand authors are busy writing and sites like this one can be a huge time suck, but I am more likely to read the work of and remain friends with new or unknown authors who read and review books, write interesting blogs, and occasionally participate in our community.
Out of all my friends here, the only one who sent me a Happy Thanksgiving message happens to be an author.
I dont accept authors as friends anymore because its all so fake,desperate marketing. Most of them are not members who actually doing anything in GR but try to sell their works. Imo Goodreads wont work like its suppose for the readers if you are afraid to be honest to authors who are members. You cant only write nice reviews.
Nancy wrote: "Was that the 2-star review for Diego? I didn't read that one because it contained spoilers. No matter, it's now on my Kindle that I got as an early Christmas present. :)."
I plead the 5th on that one (though it's pretty obvious, huh?) Hope you enjoy it, Nancy! Hmm...I need some early Christmas presents. Downloaded the Kindle for PC thingie the other day and I might just have to use it...
Dear allI haven't read the whole of this thread but I got the gist. May I present for your delectation the all time WORST reviewer versus author death struggle car crash I have ever come across on this site :
http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...
Whether you are an author or a reviewer, you may need a stiff drink as you plough through the ever increasing horror that is the comments section. Enjoy!
Paul wrote: "Dear allI haven't read the whole of this thread but I got the gist. May I present for your delectation the all time WORST reviewer versus author death struggle car crash I have ever come acro..."
Getting out the popcorn and going to go read. Can't resist a good train wreck.
It was an interesting journey, especially since the author and reviewer went full circle and came back to civility in the end. For an even bigger train wreck, try this one:http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...
wow. This is actually a whole genre - author versus reviewer. Any more? I kind of like them.... I know i shouldn't.
Wow. After those two horror shows, I really understand why most authors don't respond to any reviews. That Lester is sure a piece of work.
Angel wrote: "It was an interesting journey, especially since the author and reviewer went full circle and came back to civility in the end. For an even bigger train wreck, try this one:http://www.goodreads.com..."
Ha, you beat me to it! So funny and scary at the same time.
Nancy wrote: "Out of all my friends here, the only one who sent me a Happy Thanksgiving message happens to be an author."Major guilt here. Happy Late Thanksgiving? :) Don't feel sad, I nearly forgot it was Thanksgiving.
Kathryn wrote: "Major guilt here. Happy Late Thanksgiving? :) Don't feel sad, I nearly forgot it was Thanksgiving..."That single little message made me realize that I didn't wish anyone a happy Thanksgiving either. :)
Myself i feel a bit fake saying Happy Thanksgiving to my American friends. Its a weird foreign holiday that i never understood from my point of view.I think i have forgotten why people celebrate it even.
It's basically a harvest festival, Mohammed. No weirder than any of our other holidays.
maybe less weird. It's a family get-together + eating holiday (homemade foods usually), most of all.
Good point, Jessica. Christmas is our big family get together, though. Not being a Christian family, we're into it for the winter break in school & work so we can have a good time together. Thanksgiving is another good excuse.
I like Thanksgiving because it's the least commercial of US holidays.
Jim wrote: "It's basically a harvest festival, Mohammed. No weirder than any of our other holidays."Thanks for the reminder i remember what it is now. I blame american pop culture for giving me the view that its a weird holiday.
Angel wrote: "It was an interesting journey, especially since the author and reviewer went full circle and came back to civility in the end. For an even bigger train wreck, try this one:
http://www.goodreads.com..."
That can't be a real author. It just...it can't be...
I sincerely hope that was just someone trollin'
http://www.goodreads.com..."
That can't be a real author. It just...it can't be...
I sincerely hope that was just someone trollin'
Mod
Love is love. Remember that.
Added to favorite quotes:"Never flew off the handle just keeping it realism." -- Lester Marrow
Wow that author thread was a horror show!
Should add his book to our group bookshelf.
I want to know the story behind this match btwn author & reviewer:http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...
(have asked to see the "offending" review)
I live in the vain hope that Brett Easton Ellis will notice my review of American Psycho and confront me in person!
that would be very cool.perhaps someone should try to bring it to his attention...
I like that review, Paul. When the book first came out, I read a lot of controversial reviews about it, particularly from women's groups, so I went to my local Barnes & Noble to check it out. The paperback copy I picked up was so heavily spine creased and every page the book automatically opened to had a horrifically graphic violent scene that made me nearly throw up. So I took the remaining copies and hid them in various places around the store. I will never read it.
It's been a strange experience hating American Psycho on this site.
I've never read it either. Don't feel the need to.Far too many far better books out there that I want to read...
Greg was kind enough to send me Oriana's offending review (which Karen had thought to save--thanks team Greg & Karen!). Here it is:2 of 5 stars
bookshelves: read-2010
status: Read from November 10 to 20, 2010
"After a long internal struggle, I've given myself permission not to finish How I Wrote Certain Of My Books, which I'll talk about later. For now, I'm switching to this, which is about as different from that as it is possible to be, while still being a book. Richard Perez sent this to me and asked -- very sweetly and doggedly -- for me to read & review it. And so I shall!
***
Oh, Richard. This is not a very good book. I feel bad saying this, especially since the author personally took the trouble to send me a copy, and also to ask me to review it, no matter what I thought. So I will try not to be snarky or cruel, but I'm also not going to lie: this is not a very good book.
Here is the kindest way I can think to put it: Permanent Obscurity is a very compelling argument for the necessity of editors. I know this is maybe the literary snob (and the editor, duh) in me talking, but what can I say? The point of an editor is to calmly and professionally tell an author that while his plot and ideas may be compelling, his dialogue is wooden at best and trying way too hard at worst (I told a friend of mine that it sounds like it was written by a narc -- constant overenthusiastic use of words like "sticky-icky" and "yo" and "whigger" [sic]); that not all hot women are having sex with each other as soon as they are left alone; that he has plot holes that could swallow a city block; that his timeline is not consistent; that his characters are woefully caricature-ish; that he strays often into uncomfortable near-racism.... in short, that he is at least five revisions away from anything approaching publishable."
Jessica wrote: "I want to know the story behind this match btwn author & reviewer:http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...
(have asked to see the "offending" review)"
I clicked on the book title & found a 2 star review by Oriana listed there, even though the link you provided to her 1 star review had been removed. Take a look. It's the same Oriana. It's interesting because Dan, a friend of mine, also reviewed it. He gave it 3 stars because it was too long & didn't have as much smut has he'd been led to believe it would. That disappointed him. I know he can skip over editing issues that make me cringe, too.
;-)
Jim,I just posted her full review.
I did click on the book, and there are quite a few 4 star reviews for it.
another thin-skinned author.
Hey, Jim!For what it was and what it was hyped to be, there sure wasn't much in the way smut or controversial material in it. The Longarm I reviewed had more of both and was half the time investment.
This is interesting. Do you mean that all the novels I've read where there was lamentably wooden dialogue, plot holes all over and cartoonlike unrealistic characters were published without an editor?
ha!my experience is that there is less and less substantive editing done in publishing than ever--
But editors/publishers can still refuse to publish bad books, right? Or if it is a big name writer, anything goes?
of course, Paul's question should be directed to Oriana, who wrote the review I pasted.
Tatiana wrote: "But editors/publishers can still refuse to publish bad books, right? Or if it is a big name writer, anything goes?"sure. right on both counts I think. Someone like Philip Roth or Joyce Carol Oates does not get edited at all I think.
Who could edit JCO ? It would be like editing a combine harvester.
My 3 books are with independent presses and were very seriously edited. By that I mean, careful attention was paid to copy-editing as well as overall (manuscript) editing, not to mention careful proofreading and design. In my second and third books, I was asked to remove and revise certain of the stories. So I think it's not right to equate editing with promotion.
Lisa wrote: "I think it depends on the publisher, really. Of course the larger publishers will attract more skilled authors and employ more skilled editors.A small, independent publisher is likely to promote ..."
This is not necessarily the case. My experience has been that the larger publishers farm our their editing these days to freelancers. Some are very skilled, some are not. They do far less editing than they used to (cost-saving measure).
Good independent presses (like the 3 I'm published with) are very committed to putting out high quality books and are not used to making large profits; they are therefore more committed to the process of turning out beautiful books.
There are of course those small presses that do not edit worth a damn. They are often one-man operations.
Not offended. (It takes a lot to offend me). Just trying to correct a generally-held bias.and it isn't necessary to read each and every independent press, just to understand that there are many longstanding first-rate ones: Graywolf, Copper Canyon, Coffee House, FC2, BOA, Dalkey Archive, etc.
Actually I think the editing process is very interesting and I'd like to understand more about it - don't know if this is the right place to ask, and if there's a whole essay about editing i should read which is available please point me to it - but here's a question arising from the above - what does an author do if an editor says - in the nicest possible way - your dialogue is wooden and your characters are cliched ? How do they un-wooden and de-cliche their ms ?
Jessica wrote: "...my experience is that there is less and less substantive editing done in publishing than ever--"Absolutely! The last Harry Dresden novel by Jim Butcher that I read had some horrible mistakes in it that any decent editor should have caught. Reprints of some older works are awful, too. Just plain sloppy.
Dan wrote: "Hey, Jim! For what it was and what it was hyped to be, there sure wasn't much in the way smut or controversial material in it. The Longarm I reviewed had more of both and was half the time inve..."
I understood perfectly where you were coming from, especially when you compared it to HCC's Money Shot. When I'm told it's a book of that sort & it turns out not to be, I'm disappointed, too.
Paul, I'm not an editor per se, but I teach Creative Writing and other writing courses. If a student hands in a story with wooden dialogue and cliched characters, well I think it's fairly hopeless for that writer. If you don't have an ear for dialogue and an eye for character and detail, well...why not try a different profession?
Jessica wrote: "Greg was kind enough to send me Oriana's offending review (which Karen had thought to save--thanks team Greg & Karen!). Here it is:2 of 5 stars
bookshelves: read-2010
status: Read from November 10..."
There is nothing at all "offensive" about this review. Oriana was honest and clearly stated what she disliked without resorting to harsh language, general nastiness, or personal attacks on the author. It should be restored and the author should be ashamed of himself.
The author joined my group awhile back. At the time, Oriana's review was not there and out of curiosity, I requested a copy that was available on Goodreads book swap. Maybe I'll wait to read it until next year...
Okay, now you have me curious, Lisa. (I guess I could look at your shelves, but must run to work now--)If you don't read books by the better-known independent presses (which are outside of the mainstream), what do you read?
The Extra Cool Group! (of people Michael is...
Books mentioned in this topic
Diego (other topics)The Unincorporated Man (other topics)
Delirium (other topics)
Wings (other topics)
