Art Lovers discussion
Monthly Book Challenge
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Still Life With Oysters and Lemon: On Objects and Intimacy by Mark Doty
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Heather
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Oct 15, 2010 09:04PM
'From Mark Doty, one of our finest poets, a delicate and sensual literary essay. Part memoir, part art history, part meditation, this hybrid volume uses the great Dutch still life paintings of the seventeenth century as a departure point for an examination of questions about our relationships with things, how we invest them with human store, how they hold feeling and hope and history within them.'
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I adore this book. And I am frantic that I can't find my signed copy!
Heather - can you give us our reading schedule -- pages and due dates?
I will once I get my hands on the book. I would like to look through it and get a feel for the best way we should read it. I will go to the library today and see if I can check it out and I'll let you know.
I'm new to this group, but look forward to the book discussions. My public library doesn't have a copy of Oysters and Lemon, so I went to Barnes & Noble. The clerk said she'd have to order a copy and to expect it in about a week.I picked up a copy of Brunelleschi's Dome in the Phillips Collection gift shop in DC back in July and read it during the summer. I thought it was fascinating and only wish my son had read it before his visit to Florence in 2008.
As you and the members of this group begin thinking about the December book, you might want to consider THE AGE OF COMFORT: When Paris Discovered Casual--and the Modern Home Began by Joan DeJean (2009). As I read it, I wondered if the new architecture and interior decoration emerging from eighteenth-century France really promoted a newly intense interior life.
Welcome to the group, Linda! I'm glad you are going to join us in our next group read. You should get your book from B&N in plenty of time.Thanks for the book suggestion. We are all suggesting about 5 books to put into a poll to vote for the Dec. book read. If you have any other suggestions, you can list them in the Question and Answer section of the Monthly Book Challenge folder. I would be happy to list The Age of Comfort in our next poll. Sounds fascinating to me, but then again, I am really into interior decor. Hopefully we will get to read it soon, if not as a group, I will definitely check it out myself! Thanks!
AC wrote: "Heather - can you give us our reading schedule -- pages and due dates?"I picked up the book today at the library. Read the first 5 pages while waiting in line at the store. It would be a quick, but fascinating read. Only 70 pages. I was wondering if we would like to finish the October book read with this one? I don't think it will take all of November to read 70 pages. Tell me what y'all think!
12 days are left in October...everyone has the book? I still don't have it. perhaps we can do lemon and Oyster for the first 10 days of November, then vote for another book for the rest of November. Start voting now to safe sometime.
I still can't find my copy for a reread. Of course I could try the library, but I have all sorts of those sticky flags sticking out of my own copy.
I can't find a copy in my library, either. Could I just make a pass on this discussion, it is claimed missing or lost from the shelf at the library.
Thank you all for your comments. Amal, that's a good idea. We can wait for November to start reading the book since there is less than half of October left. That way, others can have time to find the book. Robin, you are more than welcome to skip this discussion, if you want you can follow along the thread and read the posts.
Ruth wrote: "I still can't find my copy for a reread. Of course I could try the library, but I have all sorts of those sticky flags sticking out of my own copy."ah..., Ruth... another sticky flag person...!! I thought I was the only one... lol
i have just ordered the book. hope to have it in time for this discussion.
I just ordered a copy on Amazon. They still have used ones available at a reasonable price.Thanks for suggesting this book, Ruth. I look forward to reading it. And, yes, most of my books have sticky notes sprouting out of them too.
Yes, I will still be looking at the bookstore, and I will come back to periodically see what you are discussing. I just thought one of the local libraries would have had a copy. I haven't given up hope. Thanks, Heather.
we don't have it in our local lib, so I'll have to order and that will take about a week :(
Just ordered it and picked up Dog Years as well as it resonated with me having put down my dog in May. Looking forward to the discussion and hoping the book is all the good things people have been saying about it!
Dog Years is wonderful. Alas, I've searched the house and cannot find my copy of Oysters & Lemon. I shall have to resort to the library for my reread. I'm really upset about losing this book. It was a beautiful little hardcover edition, autographed to me by Doty. (I've taken a couple of poetry workshops from him.)Pooh.
Maybe it'll show up when you're not looking for it, Ruth. I've found things have a way of doing that. Thanks for the Dog Years recommendation.
Ruth, you probably loaned it to someone. Think hard.I have order a copy from AmazonUK and should have it within a week or so. I look forward to the read and the discussion. At least we know that Ruth won't bash it! :)
You may be right, Dvora! I can think of one friend I might have loaned it to. I'll call her right away.Kim, I first "read" Dog Years as an audiobook. Mark Doty himself does the reading, and he's a wonderful reader.
My copy should come in about a week or two, from Amazon.
That's good to know, about Doty's reading, Ruth. I really enjoy a good voice/reader but I'm very picky. I ordered the real thing but I'll keep it in mind in the future.
Got the book but unfortunately they don't have the audio book.
I've ordered the book from Amazon also.
Wow -- I'm glad I revisited this thread. I went and looked at the polls and came away completely bumfoozled because I'd thought the Doty book was the Novemeber read but all the polls are for November book -- my foggy brain had missed the overlapping of Novenber book choices. Anyway -- I'm 40 pages into this and loving it so much I'm going to finish gulping it down and start all over immediately to savor it a second time for the discussion.
How is the book, I am awaiting my copy to be shipped to me.
I peaked at it and loved it so much I decided to wait because I know I will make me talk. Reading the Dog Years already and loving it too. I think I may have found a new favorite author. Last time I liked someone this much was Jeannette Winterson and that has been a while. Thanks to whoever suggested this read!
We voted on which book we wanted. We are to take another poll on what books we want to read in November, the next poll is tomorrow.
Robin -- the last sentence from my previous post may tell you something about the book: Anyway -- I'm 40 pages into this and loving it so much I'm going to finish gulping it down and start all over immediately to savor it a second time for the discussion. For me it's THAT good -- I can't wait so am simply going to read it twice through!As for the polls here, I'm overwhelmed by so many polls for one month's book choice so will likely avoid them. Why so many to choose a single book? Anyway -- I'll probably only read a chosen book IF I decide it is really calling me to do so. Doty's book was already on my radar and so I've jumped in here as a result.
Correction: "I will make me talk" in my last post was to be "it will make me talk" and believe me I am having a hard time not reading further!I voted on the last three polls. What the heck. But what I meant was, someone must have suggested the book in the first place and I appreciate it otherwise I wouldn't have known about Doty.
I believe Ruth recommended it at first, and it sounded interesting so that is how it got mentioned. Look over the previous postings to get how this progressed so far.
Thanks for catching it, Ruth. Try this link and then type in as Keyword -- Still Life with a Glass and Oysters. That should bring up the correct painting and when you click on the image it will take you to a larger image which you can then enlarge another time. It is a lovely one!http://www.metmuseum.org/works_of_art...
There are many, many painting images which come up when searching for the title which is used in the book's title but which was later found to be erroneous or altered. We could go on forever comparing still life paintings featuring the two foods of that title it seems.
My book arrived today -- what day is this starting?
Carol, we've decided it will be the first 10 days or so of November. So we can begin reading (if some haven't already) on November 1. Can't wait to hear your comments!
AC -- thats "Still Life with a Glass and Oysters" by Jan Davidsz de Heem, ca. 1640, Oil on wood, The MET
Somehow... that we can't figure out which painting Doty is talking about... fits quite well with my reading of the book.... just kidding ;-)
Many Dutch still life artists painted simular "still life composition" featuring a 1/2 peeled lemon, a 1/2 filled roemer, silver dishes and some type of fish/meat (and sometimes pocket watches).Here's a few --
1. Pieter Claesz http://www.londonfoodfilmfiesta.co.uk...
(6th pic down)
2. Willem Claesz Heda: http://www.rijksmuseum.nl/aria/aria_a...
3. Jan Davidsz de Heem: http://theoysterman.blogspot.com/2008...
4. Maerten Boelema de Stomme (4th row down):
http://www.scholarsresource.com/brows...
Here's someone that found a roemer in Europe: http://www.flickr.com/photos/kevsyd/3...
During the Dutch Golden age artists belong to guilds. In a newly competitive art market, many painters specialized their subject matter—once a popular formula had been determined, painters tended to repeat it in hopes of maintaining their profit level. "Banquet pieces (banketje)" depict lavish arrangements of expensive foods and serving pieces, and might include such luxury items as oysters, and exotic fruits.
With the Dutch Reformation, a shift from Catholicism to Protestantism, the Church patronage of the arts virtually halted in the Netherlands. Unlike Roman Catholics, Protestants considered depictions of the saints and biblical scenes "idolatrous", and preferred their churches to have plain white walls, which were thought to provoke contemplation among worshippers. Dutch Still lifes have been identified as vanitas piece (“moral compasses”) designed to invite viewers to recognize the flimsiness of earthly life and pleasures. Though Calvin had strongly denounced “idolatrous” paintings, he sanctioned the use of artwork for decorative or didactic purposes in the home, and so "Banquet pieces (banketje)" became a very popular.
Excellent, Carol. Thanks for that information and the links! I found it particularly interesting that they would pick the same subject because it was salable. Couple more points. The vanitas showing the flimsiness of life is a great point, they were meant to also show the sin of greed and the kind of idea that "you can't take it with you", that's also why you'll see copious food but also the deterioration of food. Also, paintings were a way of showing off wealth. Even if they didn't have a lot of money they could show they had money by this kind of "rich" display. Showing money was not a sin to the Protestants but a way of showing they had worked hard. These are some things I gleaned from a lecture here in the Netherlands on food in art (some time ago so if you want to correct me, please do). You might be interested in the fact that the lemon peel and grapes etc. that come off the table ledge are a realism "trick", if you will, to give you a feeling of reality and dimension. I am painting an ongoing series of food displays and have a sort of fascination with it so your information is really interesting. Maybe I should do oysters too, just to be part of the gang. ;0)
I finished the book and was happy that it was so short.I liked the analysis and information about the Dutch still artists but didn't think much of the rest of the book added anything to the analysis.
Thanks, AC, for getting that painting posted. That is the one on the cover of the paperback and the one referenced in the early pages of the book as well as toward the end. Looking forward to this discussion.
My copy of the book finally arrived in the mail today. I'm looking forward to reading this...
I haven't received my copy yet. Should be here in a few more days.
Good day, everyone! If you haven't already started or read our book, now is the time! We have 10 days to read 70 pages. I think we can all read at our own pace, but if you have a comment that could possibly be a spoiler, please put the page number first so that those who haven't gotten to that page yet can choose whether to read your comment or not. I think this book will elicit a great discussion. Thank you all who want to participate. Happy Reading!
oh, wanted to add...whoever put the book at the top of the discussion board as 'currently reading'-Thank You! I didn't know how to do that. Would you like to continue posting our books that we are reading? Thank you!
