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Rants / Debates (Serious) > how should Columbus be remembered and taught in schools?

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message 1: by RandomAnthony (new)

RandomAnthony | 14536 comments How should Columbus be remembered and taught in schools? Should we have today off to celebrate? Here's one view...

http://www.tuftsdaily.com/op-ed/confr...

What do you think?


message 2: by Gus (new)

Gus Sanchez (gussanchez) Agree 100% with that Op-Ed piece. Columbus Day is about education, not celebration. Fine, if the Italian-American community wishes to celebrate his achievement (and, it is an impressive achievement), they're free and welcome to do so, but the truth about Columbus and all other explorers during the Age of Discovery should be made abundantly clear; these "explorers" were really fortune-seekers, endowed by their rich, royal benefactors, and given carte blanche to exploit, oppress, rape, and murder where necessary.


message 3: by Meels (last edited Oct 11, 2010 12:18PM) (new)

Meels (amelia) Uh, I think I should have the day off today! Only because the bank is closed, the mail doesn't run and the bond market is closed...so I have to sit here doing nothing until 3:30 because the stupid STOCK market is the only thing open. UGH!


message 4: by Jim (new)

Jim | 6485 comments Stupid Stock Market!


message 5: by Meels (new)

Meels (amelia) Zzzactly, Jim. Bastards! :)


message 6: by Meels (new)

Meels (amelia) BTW, I think that Columbus should be remembered realistically. He was who he was, tell it! Not the silly "In 14 hundred and 92 Columbus sailed the ocean blue" BS that we got in my day.


message 7: by Kevin (new)

Kevin  (ksprink) | 11469 comments i think amerigo vespucci is getting screwed today


message 8: by Jim (new)

Jim | 6485 comments He must be sharing a coffin then.


message 9: by Lee (new)

Lee (LeeTschetter) I am originally from South Dakota and in that state Columbus Day is now called Native American Day.


message 10: by Lee (new)

Lee (LeeTschetter) The book; The Last Voyage of Columbus is rather eye opening.


message 11: by Meels (new)

Meels (amelia) I just want the day off...paid.


message 12: by Jim (new)

Jim | 6485 comments Stupid Stock Market!


message 13: by Kevin (new)

Kevin  (ksprink) | 11469 comments i'd take jerry lewis's birthday off if they gave it to me


message 14: by Meels (new)

Meels (amelia) Now THAT would be an awesome national holiday! Everyone has to stay home in their pjs and watch old Jerry Lewis movies!

(Dear gods...I was watching an old episode of L&O SVU the other day and there he was playing Munch's crazy uncle. He seems shorter.)


message 15: by Phil (new)

Phil | 11694 comments Hey laaaady!


message 16: by Knarik (new)

Knarik Michelle wrote: "I think it's worth recognizing Columbus Day (or Discovery Day or Indigenous Peoples Day etc) to remember an event that forever changed our world for good and for bad. The ramifications of Columbus ..."

I agree with you. Of course Columbus must be tought about and if not he, at least his discovery must be celebrated, although its portrayal can be more realistic.


message 17: by Kevin (new)

Kevin  (ksprink) | 11469 comments when i was a kid we sang a song when we saw ants that went:

"christopher columbus, look how big our shoes are. you discovered our land, now we stomp on you..."

not sure what that was about or why i thought of it but i am now realizing that my mom should have not painted my crib with lead paint and prob should have bought me more educational toys


message 18: by Heidi (last edited Oct 11, 2010 08:48PM) (new)

Heidi (heidihooo) | 10825 comments True story:

My ancestors were captains/first mates on Columbus' ships- the Pinzon brothers, and they committed mutiny.

Take THAT Columbus!!!

:)


message 19: by Meels (last edited Oct 12, 2010 07:36AM) (new)

Meels (amelia) Kevin "El Liso Grande" wrote: "when i was a kid we sang a song when we saw ants that went:

"christopher columbus, look how big our shoes are. you discovered our land, now we stomp on you..."

not sure what that was about or why..."



That is so very, very strange...

You know, most of those things we did as kids like, Bloody Mary, Light as a Feather, little songs like "Say Say Oh Playmate" or games like Cats Cradle and Step on a Crack, those things are timeless and far flung. I have lived in 3 states and 2 countries and was a nanny for many of those years and I have NEVER heard of that song...it's kinda scary.


message 20: by Brittomart (last edited Oct 12, 2010 07:52AM) (new)

Brittomart I didn't find out about how terrible Columbus was until senior year of high school, and I don't think it was ever formally taught to me. 'cause when the last history class I took, US history, we sorta ran over all of that 'cause my teacher (RIP Mr. Kennedy), was all, "Okay, we're gonna talk about the indians for only a couple of days because it's rare that they are going to show up for the test, and I want to get to the civil war"

The Native Americans, actually, were a BIG part of the US History AP test, but most of us made up wars and passed it.

And in school, they say, "Well, the Native Americans died out because of disease." And end of story.


message 21: by Meels (new)

Meels (amelia) The Native Americans didn't "die out"...they're still here. Who do you think keeps building all of those big casinos? (At least in Oregon.)


message 22: by Brittomart (last edited Oct 12, 2010 08:05AM) (new)

Brittomart Well, I know the Native Americans didn't all die, but their numbers were considerably reduced. That sounds terribly impersonal and inaccurate- who knows what I'm trying to say?

In that sentence I was trying to highlight the disease part, and how my school system was ambiguous about the disease. It was more like, "Native Americans were allergic to the explorers" not "the explorers killed the Native Americans"


message 23: by Meels (new)

Meels (amelia) Many of them did die due to infection from the explorers. In fact, it has been suggested that the explorers in some cases knowingly gave them blankets that carried the infection. I think that was mainly in Latin America though. Bun?


message 24: by Kevin (new)

Kevin  (ksprink) | 11469 comments sorry amelia. i won't go into the magnifying glass cruelty i did


message 25: by Meels (new)

Meels (amelia) Well, it just goes to show you that all little boys that pull the wings off of butterflies don't grow up to be serial killers, some of them grow up to be kind and benevolent men.


message 26: by Jim (new)

Jim | 6485 comments Amelia wrote: "Many of them did die due to infection from the explorers. In fact, it has been suggested that the explorers in some cases knowingly gave them blankets that carried the infection. I think that was..."

the book 1491 talks about this quite well. 1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus


message 27: by Kevin (new)

Kevin  (ksprink) | 11469 comments hahahahah. thanks amelia.


message 28: by Meels (new)

Meels (amelia) Ha! I knew some smarty pants would know the real story. I'm not very good at keeping hold of specifics, concepts yes, but I lose the details. Brain like a sieve...


message 29: by Knarik (last edited Oct 12, 2010 07:57PM) (new)

Knarik We studied these parts of American History very well in Armenia. They taught us all about disease and how Indians were uprooted and killed. But they also emphasized the importance of the discovery and that this was the way of colonization, the way they lived during that period. But I guess we were far from here and it was impersonal for us, that's why the textbooks and teachers were more direct and accurate.


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