Karen Chance Fans discussion
This topic is about
Touch the Dark
The Cassie Books
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Touch the Dark (Cassandra Palmer #1)
Ohhhhhhh yeahhhhhhh. That's right...oh Rosier. Crazy loon.
I'm pretty sure Pritkin still has the sword. I think KC confirmed that in Q & A. As for why didn't he use it (view spoiler)
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Leodora wrote: "@Claire Oh I know right! Guys with back dimples are seriously hot :p aaahhh yeah, I had forgotten about that.. LOL I bet it was just another way for Cassie to grope him ^^ Oh and on that note, I fo..."Well she did mention his lovely back muscles. Yum
@Lannister You have a good point. Maybe KC hasn't mentioned the sword after EtN because it hasn't been important to the plot and she figured we'd just assume it's still there.
I have a feeling that KC said we might see that sword again, which I thought might be confirmation that Cassie and Pritkin will be going back into Faerie together again at some point.
well...unless Tony comes OUT of Faerie, I think they have to go back in there eventually...though the Dark Fey king is not going to be happy he won't be getting his book...
Do we ever learn what the Dark Fey king wants from the Codex Merlini? I can't remember if it says anywhere. Is it something related to the war in Faerie? Does anyone have any ideas on this?
Based on what happened in the last Dory book, I got the impression that the Dark Fey king wanted the Codex Merlini because he's part of the faction that wants to bring back the old gods.
Oh! I actually had the opposite impression! :)I thought the Dark Fey were hurting in the war in Faerie and I thought Caedmon would eventually try to ally with them (probably using Claire as part of his negotiating). Asshat's father despises the Dark Fey and thinks they're little more than animals. I can't see those factions on the same side.
Hmm. That's logical. I have to rethink my assumptions. But... [warning, spoiler from Fury's Kiss ahead] (view spoiler)
Man...now I have to reread the Dory books as well...it's been too long, and the fine details are lost somewhere up there. And I am really curious as to WHY exactly he wants it. It could be more than just to bring back the gods. I (vaguely) remember Nick turning into a bad guy while translating it and I just wish we knew MORE about what exactly was in it. I mean, though YEAH, a lot was discovered over time, SO MUCH wasn't. Enough of it that I wish we had more of an idea WHAT was lost in that book...besides the god stuff, the geis stuff, and stuff we already for sure know.
Bell, I think there were some of the 'experiments' involved. I think those guys were bred for thus war so it's maybe not exactly the same thing.Aileen, I just can't remember if it hints anywhere why the king wants the book. Hopefully we'll get more clues as we read on.
Lannister wrote: "I think Mircea's a good bit older than Marlowe, probably well over 100 years older. Marlowe's older than LC though maybe only by 70ish years. I think Marlowe and Mircea probably knew each other fro..."Just started a reread of Touch the Dark as it was in the back of Masks and I couldn't resist. I promise I will keep clear of spoilers. Louis Cesar was created in 1661 in Carcasonne
'the torturers and the troops sporting them were all found dead one morning in 1661...but didn't' LC say he was here that yeat' TTD
that's when Mircea and Cassie trip back and remake Radu who remakes LC. Mircea was made in the 15 th C so that could make him 200 yrs older than LC. Marlowe 'died in 1593 Mircea beats him by over a hundred yrs too.
So Mircea born mid? 1400
Marlowe 1593
Louis Cesar 1661
Did all three accelerate to master status or just M&M?
I think you're more or less correct with the dates, Anna. Though, to be pernickity, I think 1661 was the year LC was turned into a vamp, so he was probably born about 30 odd years before that.Only Marlowe was 'forced' into master status. I think Mircea and LC developed into masters naturally. I have the impression they did it much quicker than most, but there wasn't any 'forcing' involved. Only poor Marlowe had to endure that!
Sorry I meant vampire born not human born :)And I forgot poor Marlowe got beaten up in Rasputin's dastardly plan in TTD. Poor soul, I hope you were around to kiss him better! Mircea certainly seems upset, but he also seems keen to introduce Cassie to Marlowe, he says he'd find her intriguing. Is that just because she evaded him for so long?
And Louis Cesar in a yellow outfit- he inherited his fashion sense from Radu! Genes will out!
Everyone forgets about poor Marlowe and his bandage LOL! I find the idea of him sitting in his bed at night, um, day with a bandage around his curls to be hilarious! Poor sweetie. I would definitely kiss him better! :DOn Cassie meeting Marlowe, Mircea's fibbing here. It transpires later that Mircea always knew roughly where Cassie was because of the geis. He's making out to Cassie that she's so clever in evading the best snoop on the senate, when that's all lies!
I laughed like anything when it was confirmed that yellow is Radu's favourite colour. This reminds me of something I read in Masks which I'll post about in the spoiler thread later! :D
Cassie mentions in CtD, and possibly earlier, that she had met Marlowe as a child at Tony's court.
Yeah, that infamous visit that gets, um, revisited in Tempt the Stars! :D
After reading TtS, I was ALSO confused about Mircea's comment...unless he meant meeting her AGAIN now that she is older?? I thought that might be why he made the comment he did. ALSO, even if Marlowe knew where Cassie was, he couldn't talk to her, and meet her. I also think it was to put her at ease of Mircea knowing where she was, BUT STILL. Mircea of TtD and the Mircea of TtS is a very different man. Quite a lot changed between then, and it's both nice and odd to see him grow at times with Cassie.
I took Mircea's comment to mean Marlowe supposedly wanted to meet the sneaky adult woman who'd avoided his snares for so long. But since we know that wasn't strictly true, I think Mircea's just trying to flatter.
Mircea can flatter me anytime..but I can see how he flattered Cassie to put her more at ease.
I'm liking Mircea less and less these days.
Interesting, I feel the opposite. I get the feeling that KC works hard to make readers aware he is not a sparkling vampire, especially s Cssies sees him through rose (geis) tinted spectacles, but then once the geis hits he starts to develop much more interesting layers which are compounded by his role in the Dory books and Masks.
I would agree that Mircea is the most layered character in the book and I love the fact that I can't figure out his motivations. I don't trust Mircea but I really enjoy distrusting him, if that makes sense. I like being the cynic when I analyse his actions and looking for chinks in his armour. I also like that so many of us in the group have widely different reactions to him. This is why I like talking about Mircea more than Pritkin. Pritkin has his issues but he seems far more straight-forward in comparison to Mircea.
Yeh, Cassie makes the point that his honesty is disarming. He either says nothing or reveals all whereas the vamps play games constantly.
Reading Masks made me love Mircea even more. I don't hold illusions that he doesn't have ulterior motives stacked upon ulterior motives. I just don't always think they are bad motives. I do think that with each book Mircea grows into an even better character. I know he isn't the best guy ever, but that makes him so much more lovable to me. I just find all of him so intriguing and I (unlike some others) find much about him in a positive light. Especially after reading the Dorys book, and Masks.
I'd agree Mircea is definitely intriguing. And i agree the Dory series certainly adds more layers.I was surprised how much I missed him in the last book, perhaps because you always suspect an ulterior motive *ha ha* whereas Pritkin is up front. It's also fun trying to work out how genuine he is in human terms. (I suspect genuine on he vamp world has a whole different meaning.)
What's funny is how it feels like everyone overlooks that PRITKIN has his JUST as much from Cassie...can anyone say HALF INCUBUS???? Or...MERLIN. Mircea has too, I'll give him that, especially about Dory, but WHEN would that have been brought up naturally?? I still think she's a well kept secret, and reading Masks...I think the Consul KNEW about her all along, but chose to ignore her existence because of Mircea. I know she will have to be brought up sooner rather than later, but I LOVE that Mircea gets SO CONFUSED when Cassie mentions his "girlfriend."To me, Pritkin always seems to have some new trick up his sleeve he didn't before. With Mircea, we KNOW he has Dory. With Pritkin...he seems to get some new secret every book. Mircea isn't the only secretive one...
I think that they are secretive but in different ways and for different reasons. Plus, Pritkin had to be otherwise everyone in the Black Circle would be after his power. It said that in one of the books, I can't remember which one, and how he was a very private person. I feel that Mircea treats Cassie as a child and not an equal, yet Pritkin does. Pritkin is also ashamed of his incubus half, so I can understand not wanting to tell anyone about it. I appreciate Mircea as a character because you never know if you can trust him or not (which makes him interesting), but overall I personally see Pritkin as the more trustworthy one of the two. I also like Mircea a lot better in the Dory books. It shows a different side of him that isn't shown with Cassie.
Aileen wrote: "What's funny is how it feels like everyone overlooks that PRITKIN has his JUST as much from Cassie...can anyone say HALF INCUBUS???? Or...MERLIN. Mircea has too, I'll give him that, especially abou..."Aileen I'll reply to your comment about Mircea/Masks on the Masks spoilers thread just in case.
Lannister wrote: "Only Marlowe was 'forced' into master status. I think Mircea and LC developed into masters naturally. I have the impression they did it much quicker than most, but there wasn't any 'forcing' involved. Only poor Marlowe had to endure that!"I'm probably being really forgetful or stupid, but what do you mean 'forcing'?
Could other vamps be forced? Only other masters? Why isn't it done to others?
Josie wrote: "I'm probably being really forgetful or stupid, but what do you mean 'forcing'? "Josie, it's a process that accelerates the speed with which a new born vamp grows into a master. Most vamps would take decades or even centuries (or never!) before they become masters, but the 'forcing' speeds it up.
It's never been confirmed how long exactly the process takes, but I reckon it's somewhere between months to maybe a few years. Apparently it's a highly risky venture, so they don't do it often, because many vamps don't survive the process. But because Marlowe is just that awesome, he not only survived, he thrived! :D
I wonder if the reason 'forcing' is so risky is that maybe the vamps who die were never going to be masters in the first place? It emphasises in the books that most vamps never reach master status, so maybe forcing pushed some of them beyond their physical or mental abilities or something like that, and their bodies simply gave up?
Also, it's interesting that even though Mircea is about 140(ish) vamp years older than Marlowe, in terms of sheer power, he may not be that much further ahead, since Marlowe 'caught up' so quickly (i.e. he might have amassed a century's worth of power in a year or two?)
Huh you wish! You are just fantasising about his pointy beard ;) *ducks to avoid pillow*
Do we know what the process involves? Does this 'forcing' need to be done by another Master or is it done alone? Where is this mentioned in the book, or is this info given by Karen?
Josie, it gets covered a little in The Gauntlet, when Marlowe talks to Gillian. I've copied some of the text below:“It is too complex to explain fully, but essentially…my Lady Pushed me.”I can't recall if KC has ever talked about it in a Q & A, so I think that's all we really know.
“Pushed? What--”
“It is done when a master wishes to elevate a servant’s rank quickly. A great deal of power is…is shoved through a subject all at once,” he told her, swallowing. “It is rarely done, because many times, the subject involved does not survive.
I also noted that, a couple of sentences on from that quote above, Marlowe says he was made vampire a few years earlier "if you round up". He's out and about in the daytime which means he has to be at least third level, and possibly even second level (or more), and I think, going by his remarks, he can't have been vampire for more than a couple of years.
Anna wrote: "Huh you wish! You are just fantasising about his pointy beard ;) *ducks to avoid pillow*"LOL! I think we need to see them wrestle each other to settle the issue. My cutie's a brawler. He'll whup Mircea's poncy arse. :D
Looking forward to some sweaty action there Lannister. :) He may be poncy now but that's not how he started vamp life. I suspect he still has some brawling skills!
Well I suppose Mircea fought pretty well against Dracula and the Spartoi, but I think only some sweaty man-on-man wrestling can decide between M & M. They have to be covered in oils first too, to make it interesting!I think I'll shut up now .... :P
Would it be spoiler territory if I reminded you about Mircea's sword? ;)
I have certainly given lots of thought to Marlowe's sword ....
Lannister wrote: "Josie, it gets covered a little in The Gauntlet, when Marlowe talks to Gillian. I've copied some of the text below:“It is too complex to explain fully, but essentially…my Lady Pushed me.” “Pushed?..."
Thanks Lannister! I've only read it once and quite a while ago, perfect excuse for a reread :D
You're welcome, Josie. And you can never have too much Marlowe in your life. :D
I forgot about the forcing thing. I REALLY need to go back and reread the Marlowe shorts...just...all the shorts in general. I think that even though Marlowe was forced, and is clearly very powerful...Mircea still has a lot on Marlowe, but only in SOME ways *tries to appease the Marlowe Queen* Mircea's mental powers don't seem to be matched by...anyone. Not even ol' Snakey. BUT...Marlowe and Mircea seem to be pretty evenly matched when it comes to sneakiness. Paranoia however, Marlowe has that one IN THE BAG. I think that Marlowe and Mircea, were they to ever get in a REAL fight (no idea WHY this would happen) that it would be a really close contest, not just in sheer strength, but in their other abilities. Who knows, Marlowe is almost as much of an enigma as Mircea in some books. Partly why I HIGHLY support and M&M talks. They are both so much fun to discuss.
Go M&M! I agree Aileen; Marlowe is certainly intriguing. I loved the bit in #2 when Mircea is talking to Cassie about how she burnt him in the senate chamber in front of the consul (the stars on her dress). There is obviously more background to the M&M story.
For strong mental powers, what about Ming-de? We know she has some, but we really don't know a whole lot about her, and she seems important to Mircea's past, too.
Aileen, I agree that Mircea would likely win all the fights because of his mental skills. KC talked one time comparing LC and Mircea, and said that if Mircea could dodge LC's veil trick until LC ran out of power, then Mircea would likely win. I think it's the same with Marlowe. Marlowe can blow up people's heads just by waving his hand, but if Mircea could bamboozle Marlowe's mind before the explosions started then there'd really be no competition.I guess, when I was comparing them, I was meaning in terms of raw vampire power. I wasn't really talking about their first level master tricks. Still, I'd pay for money for their wrestling match! You and I could be like the people in the corner at boxing matches with the towels and the bottles of water LMAO!
Anna, now that scene with Mircea laughing at poor singed Marlowe is just awful! Mircea is just too cruel!! ;)
Where does Marlowe explode heads by hand-waving? Is that in the Gillian stories? (only read those once)
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Books mentioned in this topic
Touch the Dark (other topics)Greywalker (other topics)
I know the sword was in Embrace the Night, because it's how Cassie identifies Pritkin vs. Rosier