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Touch the Dark
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Touch the Dark (Cassandra Palmer #1)
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Lannister
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rated it 4 stars
Dec 10, 2012 04:08PM
Damn, I don't like to give away anything, but so far, so good!
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I will say that when KC writes in a lot of flashbacks the books can get pretty confusing. I think it's the type of thing that takes some adjusting.
So I'm being led to believe that this is where the re-read (group read?) / Group discussion for the first Cassandra Palmer book, "Touch the Dark," is going to take place starting on August 10th, 2013. I would just like to say that, since this is going to be a re-read for almost, if not everyone, then the following comment is in order.*** There will be spoilers a-plenty in this group discussion. This is necessary so that everyone can put in their two cents, and then use examples, thoughts, feelings, or whatever else they can produce to back up their statements. If you don't want anything spoiled for you, then you might want to not look at this until you're past whatever it is we are discussing. Since I plan to go chapter by chapter, at least as much as possible, for an orderly discussion, those on their first read should be able to figure out if we're ahead of them or not. ***
With that comment safely out of the way, I would just like to add that I plan to bring up events that occur in the book and ask for the group's input on it. This is just to try and keep the discussion going forward. If you have something you need/want to bring up in addition to the topic at hand, then by all means do so, as long as it's within the context of where we are at (or prior to) in the book. I'll try not to be a book-nazi, running this discussion with an iron hand; it's supposed to be fun and engaging for all of us, and that is what I am aiming for. If anyone has ideas/suggestions on what to cover in this discussion, let me know prior to the tenth.
Be happy.
All sounds good to me, Duane. I'm looking forward to it. :)
Mod
And Lannister, I found my copy so I'm good to go! *franticly itching to get started*
Well crap, that was an unfortunate typo. Stupid phone
Lannister wrote: "Well crap, that was an unfortunate typo. Stupid phone"
No, no I like it
Touch the Dark - Chapters 1, 2 and 3.I know, it's not the 10th yet, but humor me - there's lots of things going on, and nine days is right on the edge....
Interesting items for discussion:
1- the Obituary. Interesting that when Cassie sees it she immediately associates it with Tony. While in one breath she states her doubt that Tony or any of his clan are capable of doing anything with such a device, and yet she never looks further than them for a guilty party. Do y'all think this is due to her adrenaline rush and her need to get away, or just because it seemed most likely to her at the time, even though it really makes no sense that Tony would give her a heads up if he wanted her dead.
2- Tomas. Why the need for Cassie to feel the need to protect this guy when its more than likely that she'll be dead if she doesn't just scat. Is it because she is tired of watching others die all the time, or is it's some sort of hero complex.
3. Tomas. It seems obvious from the context that Cassie has always felt the need to fend for herself, and at the moment she realizes that she has been duped by Tomas and that he is, in reality, a vampire, she feels rotten and tries to get away from him. Do you think it's because she was tricked and thus feels humiliated, or is it because she hates their involvement in her life after growing up around them with them dictating her every move to her?
4. The negotiation between the Consul, Mircea, and the "good guys" versus Tony and his goons. Is this a way to let us know that Cassie is much more important in the grand scheme of things? Also, what is the importance of Cassie and her communicating with ghosts, at least to the Senate?
5. Pritkin. What can one ask about him. He is rude, surly, and has a definite dislike of Cassie. What would y'all imagine is going through Cassie's thoughts about this "psychopath" she is going to have to deal with?
Also, Open Discussion on Chapters 1 - 3.
Chapters 4, 5, and 61. Here we get our first look at the strange attraction that occurs between Cassie and Louis-Cesar. That attraction is not physical as much as Cassie "becoming" Louis-Cesar in the far past. Any one have any thoughts on why this occurs?
2. Here we get our first look at Billy the ghost as well. Pythias are not noted for their communication with ghosts at this level. Yet Cassie, even though she is not the Pythia, has always had this ability. Why do you suppose that is so, and what is the significance of it?
3. Cassie escapes from Magic and ends up at Dantes, one of Tonys' big businesses. Here a number of things happen, and a number of things are presented. How do they tie in with what we've seen so far?
4. As always, feel free to have an open discussion on Chapters 1-6.
I'm about to start my reread. So excited.
I'm not starting my re-read until tomorrow night or Monday. No room in the luggage for extra books!
wooo hooo!! i'm gonna start as soon as my thesis is done, i may be a bit behind.
The whole thing about Cassie seeing ghosts always made me wonder as well, until (much later, I know) they explained her father could too...I am pretty sure...I believe that, like her Pythia power, it is an inherited ability, which is why she has always had it, and why she has always had clairvoyance, though that grew stronger when she became Pythia.
On Pritkin, I always forget that he was so rude in the beginning. I always forget where exactly he stops being so hostile and starts becoming her friend. Or at least less...angry.
Yeah, I always forget Pritkin was so angry at the beginning too. Is it just me or are his speech patterns a little different? Maybe it's just the formality of him speaking with the Consul.I also didn't remember that Pritkin's hair hasn't always been the spiky "angry" hair he has later on.
I'm starting the reread now. Will look in again in a couple of hours, once I've got a few chapters behind me.
Oh yeah...his hair did used to be...calmer...
I've read just over 100 pages (about halfway through Chapter 4). Will read more later, but here's some responses to Duane's initial points.The Obituary.
I think Cassie assumes it's Tony because she has no idea of anyone else who wants her dead so, logically, it has to be him. I think she believed Tony was acting like a cat toying with a mouse before it kills. He wanted her afraid and running for her life - straight into his trap. If Tony believed he had a fool-proof plan to capture her, I could understand him wanting to 'play' a little first.
Tomas
I don't think Cassie has any kind of hero complex. I think she's a very compassionate person, and I think this is because she's witnessed real suffering all her life though her visions and her life at Tony's. You see her compassion repeatedly all through the books (e.g. Francoise, the Misfit kids and Tammy, Mac etc). Even her feelings for Pritkin are initially rooted in compassion for his situation with Rosier.
On discovering Tomas is vamp
You bring up an interesting point here! I'm tending towards Cassie feels betrayed because Tomas lied and misled her. I don't think Cassie automatically hates vamps (she was very fond of Eugenie) but I don't think she likes being played. Which should make for some interesting scenes with Mircea down the line!!
Meeting The Consul
I think this scene is quite well done. You don't realise until much, much later how big of a deal it is to get to meet the Consul. I think it's interesting also, that we tend to overlook that Cassie really didn't have much contact with first level vamps until the books kicked off. We tend to take her word as law, but I think she's not always correct in her assumptions.
Pritkin
Yeah, angry war mage is angry.
Louis-Cesare
When Cassie travels back and possesses LC, I feel sorry for her that all the vamps present seem to have a fair idea what might be going on, but no-one bothers to explain to her till much later. Rafe mentions the Tears of Apollo (I think he thought they'd used them) so maybe he's not as clued in, but I bet Mircea was rubbing his hands in glee!
Anyway, this comment is long enough. I have a few more thoughts that I'll type up and post in a min.
So a few random things that occurred as I read ...I find it amusing just how fooled Cassie was by Tomas. She was soooo sure she could spot a vamp anywhere but she says of Tomas (before she knew the truth) that "he resembled the undead more than most vampires I knew, and had their unconscious poise and quiet assurance to boot". Yet she still never suspects!
The scene with Portia and the ghosts ... I find this amusing in retrospect given all the stuff we hear about Cassie's father commanding armies of ghosts. And here's Cassie - quite literally - commanding an army of ghosts!
Timeline info:
We get a couple of things here. Cassie says of Rafe that "he’d made the mistake of turning down a commission from a wealthy Florentine merchant in 1520." Did you all take that to mean Rafe was turned in 1520? Cos shortly after that it says "Tony’s fat face looked the same as always, which wasn’t surprising since he hadn’t changed since 1513 except for the clothes." So, was Tony turned in 1513? That means he became 7th level master in 7 years. I thought that seemed quite a short period of time, though I guess it's not impossible. Perhaps you can become a master fairly quickly, but rising after that is a slow business for most vamps. How did everyone else read this timeline stuff?
Next ... I was pleased to note that Cassie comments that LC's legs looked damn fine in silk hose. He must get it from his father LOL!
Back to Tony again ... we've discussed in the past whether Mircea had fully emancipated Tony. There's a couple of quotes of interest. Firstly, Cassie thinks to herself
If Tony had been behind the second attempt on my life, he’d just made Mircea look bad, since nothing lowered your rep quicker in vamp circles than not to be able to control an underling.Then we get this
Most masters give their more powerful followers some freedom, although a certain amount of their revenues are sent as yearly “presents,” and any servants they make are subject to their masters’ whims. The masters also check on them from time to time, like Mircea with Tony, because they are always responsible for them. If Tony had ordered an attack on me after he knew I was under Senate protection, it would be Mircea who would be expected to deal with him.It sounds to me that Mircea is still responsible for Tony's actions, but I guess maybe it's his personal responsibility, rather than something the Senate needs to get involved with? How did everyone else read this?
Finally, how about Mei-Ling as the Big Bad?! Billy Joe emphasises a couple of times that she wasn't happy about the Consul bringing in LC to fight Rasputin. We already know that reputation is everything to vamps, and Mei-Ling's has just taken a humiliating knock. Surely she's not going to be happy about that? And she shows a definite lust for cruelty, so I wouldn't put traitorous behaviour past her.
I'm delighted! I'm only 100 pages in, and already I have a new conspiracy theory LMAO!
Chapters 7, 8, and 9So, this being a day from Hell for me personally, let me just say that one of the big things to happen in" Touch the Dark" is Cassie jumping Tomas. Err, her being taking over the body of Tomas is more in line with what I meant! I think it would be interesting, not to mention loads of fun, to take over someone else's body for awhile - especially one of the opposite sex! Wow, the wonders you could put to rest in that situation. But I digress.
Also, her new jewelry she manages to snag from the Dark Mage is cool, too, but is just more fuel to the fire as far as Pritkin's distrust of Cassie and her "Demon tendencies" run in his eyes. They would come in handy in a fight, though!
So, open discussion on Chapters 7, 8, and 9.
I'm still catching up, but here's a few more thoughts on Chapters 4 - 6.Cassie meets a satyr at Dante's and this reminded me of a Q & A...
Regarding the satyrs in “Touch the Dark,” what realm are they from (are they demon or Fae, or something else?).I think I'm missing something. What was unusual about them (beyond working in a bar on Earth!) and how could this be spoilerish?
Both are Dark Fey, although the satyrs in TTD had something unusual about them, if you’ll recall, which ventures into spoiler territory.
Couple of random observations:
Even early on in the first book, it becomes obvious that Cassie is obsessed with finding out more about her parents. I don't think anyone would have thought at this point just how big of a deal they'd become.
Also, we get a nice bit of foreshadowing from Radella when she says spirits can become corporeal in Faerie. Nicely done!
We get the scene where Cassie realises her energy has been blocked (by Mircea, as we later discover). I'm counting this as Mircea's first black mark. He started his manipulations of her when she was 12. Also, reading back when Cassie talks a little about her life on the streets, I feel so angry with Mircea that he could sit back and do nothing. Cassie could have been abused or murdered and he wouldn't have been able to stop it. So much for protecting his precious Pythia!
I'll start chapter 7 tonight. Duane, hope Dory drops by to save you from your day of hell. :)
Mod
Cool! Look forward to hearing what you think.It's funny reading the books all the way through again. I've read bits and pieces here and there, as I've researched stuff for the group, but I think it's a while since I did a full read-through. It's interesting how some things strike you as significant now, that you passed right over at the time.
Also, I want to make a pic of the Senate room. I liked the description of the big table on a marble slab. I still haven't finished my Tempt the Stars pic, that I've been working on, off and on, for a few weeks. I can't do Mircea's face. Bloody typical, Mircea causes problems for EVERYONE!! :P
Wow, thanks Michelle, I missed that completely!! I remember Jimmy the Rat was a were obviously, but I never picked up on the Black Circle/crossbreed thing at all. I guess that must have been one of KC's easter eggs.Well done for spotting that! :)
In Greek/Roman mythology Satyrs' are a half man/half beast God and are frequent companions of Bacchus, the Graeco-Roman religion’s God of fruitfulness and vegetation (known more popularly as the god of wine and ecstasy - as in "with all the booze and women, the party was a Bacchanalian feast").According to the Bible:
- Old Testament - the Hebrew word sa‘ir, related to the term se‘ar (hair), and generally means “a hairy one.” It is used, for example, to speak of the male goat that was employed as the Israelites’ solemn, collective sin offering on the Day of Atonement (Leviticus 16).
- King James Version - renders sa‘ir as “satyr” (Isaiah 13:21 and 34:14). But the specific context of both passages makes it quite clear that the term is being used to refer to the wild goats that frequently inhabited the ruins of both ancient Babylon and Edom.
I gather that in the Cassandra Palmer books the satyr is a type of succubus or perchance a fertility spirt. I don't recollect the satyr having anything to do with the dark fey, and certainly not as an experiment. I could have missed it, but I don't think so. I tend to believe that KC held true to popular mythology in her representation of the satyr, as well as in other entities encountered in the series.
While Michelle is correct that the were-rats had been DNA spliced with the genes of a Satyr, the Satyr itself in not a Dark Fey experiment - possibly just the were-rats. I still don't recollect any reference to the Dark Fey and were-rats, but I am easily distracted!
Michelle, I did read everything by KC. Perhaps I am just thinking that KC held truer to mythology than she really did. I recall the were-rats were screwed up DNA hybrids, but I just can't recall that the satyrs fell into a Fey experiment; it simply makes no sense, especially with all the mythology concerning them. It's possible that I am reading too many different series with bastardized versions of mythological creatures and I am delusional.Use the spoiler tag (or just put it out there - I think everyone in the discussion is a re-read type (except for Lannister, who is a re-re-re-read) and a spoiler won't make anyone mad) and refresh my memory on what the satyrs had that was wrong with them. I've read the book several times, and if I have something as screwed up as that in my head, it would be nice to correct the misconception. Also, it would mean that that my comprehension blows. Big time.
And on Rossier, he is always a dick. And while I am sure he believes Cassie is an unbearable harpie, I sure he'd like to suck the life out of her; literally.
Mod
Leodora wrote: "Of course Rosier would.. she's blond with big boobs for crying out loud! :p"Sure, valid point. But then again, and this is just me, if I truly disliked someone even Tennessee big-hair and a tight ass poured into leather pants wouldn't get me to jump their bones; then again, Rosier is a succubus demon, maybe sucking the life out of someone you don't like is a win-win type of thing! ;-)
Chapter 10, 11, and 12.Pritkin is really wound up over Cassie and his belief that she is a demon. Between the bracelet and her possession of Tomas, Pritkin's sense of being reasonable about Cassie is long gone. It is becoming clear that Pritkin was given the "diplomatic assignment" in order to whack Cassie, and thus remove her from any chance of becoming the Pythia. I don't find it interesting that the Circle made this choice, knowing Pritkin's hate for all things demon; a Pythia they can't control is not good for the Circle.
Also, the group is worried about the Louis-Cesar/Cassie time travel and the fact that it could change history. I'm not sure that I believe that changing something small in the past could create a paradox of that grave of importance, but I would suppose that it's possible. I kind of think that if you went back in time and killed someone, then that "paradox" would continually be repeated - i.e. in one iteration you go back and kill someone, and then in the 2nd iteration the person never was. On the third iteration (time would necessarily continue to repeat) the person would be back as he had not been killed on the second iteration as he did not exist at this point. Run an endless loop of here today, gone tomorrow on steps 1 through three.
Oh, and we must not forget that someone has to boink Cassie so that she can come into the Pythia's powers. Obviously Tomas could not get the job done as Cassie did not have feelings for him, so now Mircea feels he needs to do the deed himself. Poor Mircea - my heart goes out to his predicament!
And, as always, feel free to discuss anything you want up through Chapter 12.
Michelle wrote: "I suck at writing things.[spoilers removed]"
Hmmm, I'll have to think about that statement; I've never seen any KC Q&A stuff.
Since Jimmy was not a Full-Satyr, I'm having trouble with the whole concept that Satyr's and were-rats are the same thing. Are you saying all Satyrs, or only the one's at Dante's? Or are you (or KC) saying that just Jimmy's group (which we don't know is they are also part Satyrs) are affected? I guess it's not that big a deal, but now that its been brought up I can't get it out of my head!
I'll go back and re-read the whole section; the truth must be found!
Never mind, I found the Q&A that you referred to. It appears KC just said screw it and assigned the Satyrs to the Dark Fey. So much for sticking to mythology. While she retained some of their traits, she dumped the whole "Satyrs are small deities myth" in favor of pawning them off on a group that does't truly "own" them, at least not in the Greek-Roman myth line. Kind of pisses me off, really, pulling something that lame. Though she is writing the story so she can do what she wants and far be it from me to question her motives.On the other hand, I'm pleased that that crappy explanation she gave on them wasn't in the book; that means my comprehension is not total garbage!
This was my first re-read of the first book [though I've read the others at least 3 times each, and the latest about 6 times]so I'm seeing a lot that I missed on my first read- one of these things is that Mircea so easily takes control of Pritkin when he's trying to harm Cassie. I know, I know, Mircea's like a super bad ass... But Pritkin kinda is too. I wonder if Pritkin is downplaying his abilities so as to cover up his identity? I also think in these later books If Mircea and Pritkin went head to head [which I'd loooooove] I'm unsure whether Mircea would be a clear winner.I may be wrong.
I also think that despite her naivete, Cassie acts so much more savvy about the way of the Vampire, specifically Mircea in this book. I think while it could so easily be argued that her and Mircea have grown closer and therefore she's grown to trust him, me being the Missie-Skeptic I am feel like he's done exactly what she was so wary of in this book and fell for his charm. She's aware in this book that she's useful to him because of her power and for not much else- I think while Mircea does grow to really care about her, her power is still a giant factor in her importance to him, and she doesn't let herself think about that in more recent books.
Strangely, seeing Pritkin want to kill her is heaps of fun for me. That probably has psychological connotations I do not want to explore, but I think a lot of it is juxtaposing that with Mircea's slick charm. From day 1, Mircea is using charm and attraction to influence Cassie into doing what he wants her to. There's no facade or mind games with Pritkin. There's just pleeeenty of passion ;)
Mod
Wow, welcome Karen! I'm sure I speak for the entire group when I say we're delighted to have you on board. Thanks for doing this and I hope you get as much out of our readalong as we will. I'm sure there'll be lots of questions and we'll try not to fish for spoilers. Well, not too much!There might be some crackpot theories and lots of shipping, so you've been warned! :)
Is this the time to ask if Mircea and Pritkin are the ones who end up together in the end?? I'm sure it doesn't count (at least not COMPLETELY) as a crackpot theory...more like a fantasy but still.
Karen,First off, you're welcome to stop in and visit with us anytime, at least on my watch (which the TTD discussion is).
Also, thanks for the very detailed explanation on your take on the Fey and the Satyrs. Like I said before, I might not agree with it, but they're your books so you are entitled to do anything you want with the world you work in. Plus in retrospect it does tie in with the other books. I guess if it really bothered me I wouldn't have bought and / or read everything you've written.
And as long as you've been kind enough to stop by, I would like to thank you for the signed copy of Fury's Kiss you sent me. I think that it is by far the best book you've written to date. I love the Dory character, and the way she and Louis-Cesar interact. I also think the way you merged the two series (Cassie and Midnight's Daughter) was done very well. If I'm not mistaken, it seems you have the timeline sync'd up now. So if that's the case, maybe we'll get to see Dory kick Cassie's ass inTempt the Stars for plopping her in the middle of nowhere when she went in to check on her dad! ;-)
Well, that's enough brown-nosing on my part. Once again, thanks for the explanation - I really appreciate it.
Duane
Aileen wrote: "Is this the time to ask if Mircea and Pritkin are the ones who end up together in the end?? I'm sure it doesn't count (at least not COMPLETELY) as a crackpot theory...more like a fantasy but still."Release the dogs of war! Or at least shipping.
So I know this is going way way back to chapter one, but I was a bit behind on the reread (I could NOT find my copy of TtD, I also still can't find the first Dory book either, it's becoming a problem, ANYWAY) but talking about the obit...for some reason, when I first read the comments, I had forgotten it is actually ABOUT Cassie, and on her computer screen, no idea why, I just did. And now, I'm wondering if Tony even was the one to plan that out, that TONY was the one to place it and make things happen. I don't think it was Mircea, but I just...idk, I'm rethinking that it actually was Tony who did it.
Aileen,Hope you can get your hands on the books. I typically only buy the eBooks now unless a book is not available in that format; I have "physical" books piled everywhere, and really don't have room right now to pile more in the house. If you just want a copy to re-read with the group, eBook might be an option. Also, some libraries have the books now. I know mine has them on audio.
As far as the obituary, (view spoiler).
I have all the books, they are just about the only physical copies I buy anymore, the rest I get the ebook form, easier to cart around. I know what you mean about not having space...And now I remember about the obituary!!! It just seemed so off that Tony would do it. It has been too long since I have reread the series obviously...
I'm about 30% of the way through my reread... And here is my take on Tony/Mircea situation:Tony is still technically under Mircea. But because he is a Master, 3rd level right?, He has a lot more autonomy. But he still answers to Mircea. Which means no matter what, his behavior looks bad on Mircea. I am guessing that when everything came out about Tony and Rasputin, Mircea would have been responsible for his punihsment, but he is now AWOL. And then the Geis came in ... Mircea had concerns.
As for the ad... reading that first chapter, and knowing everything we do, I do wonder if it was Tony who put in that ad!!! I don't think Mircea would, especially since he knows where Cassie is, with Tomas. But it really does seem out of Tony's element. Maybe it was whats her face's idea? the one who died in the later books because of tony's orders... ?? She seems conniving enough. Maybe someone from the silver circle? Not Mircea or Pritkin though... I just don't see it.
Karen,Ah, a Brain Teaser. I haven't really given deep thought on the mythology front in a long time, and the food for thought is good.
To me, Mythology, in general, is nothing more than the "beliefs" of a people in a specific location and at a specific time to justify that which could not be explained at the time period involved due to the lack of knowledge by the people on their surroundings, such as the weather, changes in seasons, moon positions, storms, and the like. Some mythology is more detailed than others as well. I put Norse Mythology at the top of my favorite list, followed closely by Celtic and then Greek/Roman.
I love Norse Mythology as it tends to be much darker than the others, and somehow the interaction between the Gods and us mere mortals seemed to be somehow much more dangerous than, say, in that of Greek Mythology. In Norse mythology two groups battle for supremacy - the giants and the Gods. Also, there were many groups of Gods, such as the aesir and the vanir, with their own thoughts and customs. These groups of gods had distinct ideas on what should or should not be, and there seemed to be little to no compromise on these issues. One example of Norse mythology that sticks in my mind is that of Freyja and Frey - brother and sister, of the group known as the vanir. To them incest was a part of life. These two shared carnal knowledge with each other and thought nothing of it. When the two separate groups, the vanir and the aesir merged after the war, Odin, King of the aesir, forbid the practice of incest as the aesir disliked the practice. As a result Frey and Freyja had to cease and desist in the practice or be thrown out of the newly formed alliance.
And you are correct that many things could be inferred and caught by "reading between the lines," if you will. I suppose it's good that this topic came up, as it has been a while since I chose to drag out the old books on the subject and go through them. I really should keep up with it as many Urban Fantasy type series are relating things that occur to this genre, but there's too much to read, and so little time to do it. Still, it takes a lot of faith to maintain the Greeks giving due to someone they knew nothing of.
In hindsight, I can see where you are coming from with the Fae being in Greek Mythology, not mentioned specifically as Fae, but still described none the less. This concept works if I think of the many different classifications given for the various entities, and work at it from that angle. I would have to be pretty narrow minded to just say "No! There are NO Fae in Greek Mythology!" Well, I am pretty narrow minded, but I can learn with the best of them, especially when provided with a catalyst. :-)
An example that comes to my mind in your favor, and as you mentioned, are a category known as sprites. Sprites are found in almost, if not all, mythology. A "sprite" is certainly a generic term for a supernatural creature or a being of a spiritual nature, but not so much a creature born of the earth. Sprites in Greek mythology were those creatures such a nymphs, and as you indicated we all know that there were many different kinds of nymphs in Greek Mythology. In different mythologies nymphs were considered to be creatures of the earth, and prone to enjoy the physical aspects of life. Fairies, too, are a type of nymph in many cultures and just as many mythologies, and we know Fairies belong to the Fae. We also know that Satyrs are related to the nymphs, and in fact Sprites, such a wood or water nymphs, were the choice "recreation" for a horny Satyr. And from what I can remember of nymphs in general without rereading a lot of text, is that they had no issues with partying with the Satyrs either, whether it was getting down in the mud or frolicking in a stream.
So I will cede to you that there could be Fae in Greek mythology while not being called Fae as such. I would also say that as Fae are not born of the earth, but are a part of it, as are Sprites, this further strengthens your argument. While I hate to be wrong, I can admit it when I am. In my defense I guess that it just didn't register with me that Satyrs would belong to the Dark Fae population based on what I read as the story progressed. I am still not convinced 100% this is so, but there is a solid precedent to show it is possible for the Fae to be in the Greek mythology. It is still hard for me to grasp the idea, and it was not really gone into any detail in the TtD book. And for me to stretch a Satyr into a were-rat was a leap of faith larger than my mind could comprehend.
The answer given on this subject on the Q&A was short, as you said, and geared towards a certain mindset. To me it just made no sense and seemed like a cop-out. Your explanation above was excellent, and did make me approach the subject from a different side. I guess things like this are why I don't read Q&A's as a rule.
And I still maintain that it is your world, and you can bend the rules however you see fit. Thanks for making me consider a different point of view.
dcm
I'm not sure that anyone would have called me a geek, but I could argue any side of a topic - shoot, I could even switch sides mid-stream.No wonder everyone avoided me like the plague! ;-)
So, still catching up, so comment about Tomas. Just caught/remembered that Cassie got feelings when vamps were around, obviously she doesn't have these around Tomas which is why she was convinced he was human. Somehow, I missed that. On her whole wanting to save him thing, I think it's that she felt bad for all the death that was laid at her feet over the years because of Tony, like her governess, and the FBI agent. I think that it's less hero complex, and more guilt over innocents dying just because they were in Tony's way of getting to her. I liked that Cassie is so determined not to let Tomas die like others, and not because she is in love with him, but because she cares about him and doesn't want to see him hurt, especially because of her.
Zeenat wrote: "Tony is still technically under Mircea. But because he is a Master, 3rd level right?, He has a lot more autonomy. But he still answers to Mircea. Which means no matter what, his behavior looks bad on Mircea. I am guessing that when everything came out about Tony and Rasputin, Mircea would have been responsible for his punihsment, but he is now AWOL. And then the Geis came in ... Mircea had concerns."I'm thinking since we have the author here, perhaps we should clear this up for once and for all!
Karen, we've been discussing off and on for a while the situation with vamps who go rogue (i.e. Tony, Tomas and later Lawrence). It's emphasised throughout the books that masters are held responsible for the actions of their servants but I'm curious that we don't seem to have witnessed any negative effects on Mircea, for example.
I don't think anyone doubts Tony's link to Rasputin, the Black Circle and possibly the rogue Fey from Fury's Kiss. Why isn't Mircea getting hauled over the coals for this? Is it because Tony was emancipated? Mircea didn't hesitate to take over Tony's assets (e.g. Dante's) so I wasn't sure if Tony was still under Mircea's thumb.
I guess I tend to think of it like a corporate environment. If an underling makes a cockup of such monumental proportion that it threatens the existence of the company, sure the CEO is going to take it out on said employee, but he's also going to take it out on the one who was supposed to be supervising him. I do understand we're not witness to every conversation between Mircea and the Consul, but would Mircea have been in the poop, or is being shamed by a servant, and the loss of face that brings, considered punishment enough?
There is a certain appeal about Mircea squirming while the Consul gives him an absolute roasting! Though Marlowe would presumably be next in line too, following Lawrence's betrayal.
Also, Zeenat, about the obit, see Duane's comment no. 95.
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Books mentioned in this topic
Touch the Dark (other topics)Greywalker (other topics)
