Mockingjay ***SPOILERS*** enter at your own risk!

[Amanda]

I forgot to say how much I came to LOVE Finnick in this book. What a great guy with an amazing capacity to love.

[Heidi]

Great points Mandi. The longer time goes on, the more complex this ending reveals itself to be.

[[deleted user]]

I'm not reading this thread at all because I haven't finished yet (which is VERY unlike me). But I can't wait to join in the discussion very soon!

[Jaimie]

Shannen wrote: "I'm not reading this thread at all because I haven't finished yet (which is VERY unlike me). But I can't wait to join in the discussion very soon!"

I liked how you commented in the thread that you were not reading the thread!

[Heidi]

Jaimie wrote: "Shannen wrote: "I'm not reading this thread at all because I haven't finished yet (which is VERY unlike me). But I can't wait to join in the discussion very soon!"

I liked how you commented in ..."

Ha! I was thinking the same thing Jaimie :)

[Heather]

Mandi, I liked your thoughts, especially about the part of having children. If I remember, Kat kinda held Peeta off about having children as she just wasn't ready. I can understand why Kat at first didn't want children, I would think she would be very worried that the Games would come back and her children would be at stake.

[Kurukka]

I read some of the comments about the ending. I think that what it shows, essentially, is that no matter how bad things can get and how broken you are, eventually you find yourself able to keep going on living. It shows Collins's faith in humanity, this power we have of messing things up and then make them good again. It's a painful process, it's not easy (it took Katniss 15 years to tame her fear and recover) but in the end it's possible, and that means it is hopeful.

[Shelli]

Cécilia wrote: "I read some of the comments about the ending. I think that what it shows, essentially, is that no matter how bad things can get and how broken you are, eventually you find yourself able to keep goi..."

Well said Cecilia!

[[deleted user]]

I finished it last night! Woohoo!

And for the record, I haven't read this thread yet, Jaimie and Heidi. :) Gotta do that now before I comment...

[Lani]

Welcome to the club Shannen!

[Jason]

I just finished it too! Though I loved the first two--which were just about awe-inspiring--this third one really seemed to rub me the wrong way. Almost nothing seemed to work for me, though I am still glad I read it.

I have to disagree with Cecilia above. The ending wasn't happy at all and probably couldn't be after Prim's sudden and needless death. The page or two of her life with Peeta was just a band-aid over a stab wound, enough to make you think you got what you wanted even though everything is just as bleak as before. It wasn't hopeful that Katniss had kids, it was just another sign that you're going to get ground down and forced to give up your ideals, even if it takes 15 years. But that's what the series and the Hunger Games were about. There is no escape.

You can read more about my thoughts on my blog here: www.powerlessbooks.com/blog

[Susan]

I finished it this week and was kind of dissapointed! I dont know if it was all the hype or what but it seems I really loved the first two books and this last one was just okay for me. I wish she would have gotten more into how Peeta recovered and all that......

[Kurukka]

Jason wrote: "I just finished it too! Though I loved the first two--which were just about awe-inspiring--this third one really seemed to rub me the wrong way. Almost nothing seemed to work for me, though I am st..."

I didn't say it was a happy ending, did I ? I don't really understand what you disagree about in my comment, actually... ?

[Jason]

Cécilia wrote: "Jason wrote: "I just finished it too! Though I loved the first two--which were just about awe-inspiring--this third one really seemed to rub me the wrong way. Almost nothing seemed to work for me, ..."

Oh, just that it shows faith in humanity and that broken things can be repaired. You're right that you didn't call it a happy ending. I hope you don't feel attacked or anything, because I definitely didn't mean it that way.

[Kurukka]

Yeah, no, I could call it a happy ending in the way that we can see that things get better after the arenas were destroyed and President Snow died. Not a happy ending like "everyone survived ! youhou !" but still a happy ending because yes, I strongly think it shows faith in humanity. I mean, don't you ? *frowning*

[Kourtni]

Jason wrote: "I just finished it too! Though I loved the first two--which were just about awe-inspiring--this third one really seemed to rub me the wrong way. Almost nothing seemed to work for me, though I am st..."

Great thoughts Jason. I love how you said the "happy ending" was like a band-aid over a stab wound, that is exactly how I felt. To be honest I was left feeling emotionally drained and empty after reading Mockingjay. Of course I didn't expect it to be all smiles and sunshine, but it seemed so much darker than the first two. There was no sense of hope at all. Like you, I'm glad I read it, but it felt all wrong to me as well.

[Becca]

I happen to agree with Jason on the ending. It certainly wasn't happy and I don't think it's Collins showing her faith in humanity because the whole series was basically a statement on how awful humans are to each other. I thought the ending sounded more like her editors and agent pressured her into giving us a "happy" ending so we'd all be satisfied. If it were truly something she wanted to write it would have been a bit more fleshed out like her novels have all been to this point. This is her ironic twist on a happy ending. It seems happy at first glance, but my opinion is that there is really nothing happy about it.

[Becca]

Sorry if that sounds a little bitter, lol! I am a little bitter. And I hope no one is offended. I'm not attacking anyone's opinion, just stating my own.

[Kurukka]

What I mean is that, despite all the horrible things we can do, we can also reverse the situation.

This is a moral call to us all. It's not just about how bad we can be but also how good we can be. The Capitol was overpowered, wasn't it ? If she really only wanted to tell us how screwed up human beings were, she would not have made the rebels win.

[Kurukka]

As for Katniss being with Peeta at the end, I think it tends to say that, as long as you have something worth living for, you eventually gets better. The scars that life leaves on you never disappear, that's for sure and you can't exactly repair things (btw, I didn't say that either, I just said that you can make things better again, not erase the atrocities that happened in the past) but generally, there is light at the end of the tunnel. Not everyone reaches it, but most of the time, humankind in general does.

[Becca]

The problem with that is that we don't actually get to see the new society that was built up after Katniss took down the capitol. We don't know if it was better or not. She gives us the impression that it was because they leave Katniss alone, but it may not have been, we'll probably never know. With Gale loosing his humanity and having a powerful job working with the government I don't have a lot of faith in the society they were building.

And Katniss and Peeta were treated like the dregs of society. It's no wonder they ended up together. And while I think there was some real love in their relationship, they were both pretty broken, so yes there were scars there, some big ones and I have a really hard time swallowing the epilogue because of those scars. Who knows, maybe the epilogue was all in Katniss's warped head and Collins will come out with another series showing that she was completely comatose for the rest of her natural life.

[[deleted user]]

I haven't read ALL the comments here but I agree with Cecilia here. Was it a happy ending? No. Was it completely satisfying? No. Did it give me hope that Katniss finally found some happiness in life? Yes.

While reading the book, I wanted a HEA for everyone. After Finnick's and Prim's deaths, I just wanted Katniss and Peeta to live.

[Kurukka]

You know, in a government, you can't only have good guys. I think that Gale is selfish and blinded by his hatred but unfortunately, we need people like that. There are some hard decisions that has to be made, sacrifices even (that doesn't mean it's good).

I think Collins showed that with the District 13. And the fact that Katniss killed President Coin is like a "no" to the repetition of history. So maybe the new government is not all paradise-like but it's at least better than what it was. And that's what's important. To progress.

[Jason]

I was hoping for Katniss to have a role in creating the new society. As soon as they said the mansion was accepting refugees, I knew it was going to end on a stage, and I thought that would be the moment when Katniss took control. She'd be up there, Coin would be dead, Snow would be dead, and everyone would watch her become the real Mockingjay delivering some kind of edict to wash away the horrors of the past in front of everyone.

[Becca]

Could have happened if she wasn't so darn broken. That would have been the redemptive ending I would have loved to have seen, even if she was killed for her troubles.

[[deleted user]]

Katniss never wanted to be a leader though.

[Kurukka]

Yeah, she didn't want to be the Mockingjay. She's not a politician, she's just a young girl who was trapped in the mess adults created against her own will.

[Jason]

Yeah, that's true too. Even if she didn't run everything she could've set it in motion down the right path and people would've listened to her. Then she could've finally been free.

[Heidi]

Shannen wrote: "Katniss never wanted to be a leader though."

I agree. Katniss just wanted to be left alone, and in the end, she basically was.

[Lani]

"Jason wrote: It wasn't hopeful that Katniss had kids, it was just another sign that you're going to get ground down and forced to give up your ideals, even if it takes 15 years."

I got the impression she always wanted children, just not in Panem the way that it was. So when she finally had children I viewed it as a positive reflection on the society they were living in. Things must have improved if Katniss agreed to have kids. I never viewed it as her giving up her ideals.

[Tanya]

Shelli wrote: "Tanya wrote: "Just finished the book last night and I was extremely impressed by what Collins chose to do with the story... I do think some of the book was over written in certain places but she ne..." Yeah I should have seen it coming but I just didn't. I think its a testament to Collins that even though Katniss is obviously flawed I really focused on her so much of that last book on her journey but I should have made room from others... I'm really interested to see how they adapt these books for the big screen. If done right it could be amazing if not well I'm almost afraid of what could happen....

[Jenny]

I agree with Cécilia and Lani. I don't think Katniss gave up her ideals to have kids. I think that the only reason she didn't want them was because she didn't want to love and raise them just to have them taken away from her and murdered (this is the only reason that she ever gave for not wanting them). Her willingness to let her guard down enough to bring children into that world shows that she's trusting enough of her situation in life to allow herself kids. I also think that she wanted time to heal, especially given what growing up with her mother was like after her father died. I doubt she wanted to be a mother that didn't have the strength to get up some mornings even though she had kids to take care of. I viewed the having children as a statement on her part that she was allowing herself to trust and hope and love beyond herself and Peeta.

Also, I feel like Katniss did take control and set things in motion once the war was over and that she did so on quite a large stage, when she assassinated Coin. Like someone said earlier, she was saying "no" to the repetition and by doing so decided for everyone that their futures would be one of change.

And while we don't get to see the new government's formation play out, we know enough to assume that it was a much more pleasant one than before: we know that they wanted it to be a republic/democracy because this was stated as the goal, we know that supplies started coming in to rebuild after the war when Katniss is back in District 12 because she talks about the trains arriving to deliver necessities and supplies from other districts, we know that people were returning to their homes and that life was on its way back to normalcy, we know that people are able to improve their stations in life through Gale and his new job, and we know that she eventually feels comfortable enough to have kids which she will educate about those previous events so that they will know how valuable their freedoms are and what the costs were to achieve them. The mass grave has grown into a meadow, and she intends them to know that. So yes, I feel that it ends with a glimmer of hope, regardless of how bittersweet it is.

[Brittany (finally graduated and can once again read for fun)]

Those are some excellent points Jenny. I admit when I finished the book I felt like nothing could ever be good again. I was so depressed, even after reading the epilogue. But then I think, maybe that's how Katniss felt too. She went back to district 12 and eventually got into a routine but initially I'm sure she felt like nothing would ever be right with the world again. She lost Prim, she lost Gale (in a manner of speaking), she lost Finnick, her mother, Madge, Cinna... the list goes on.

I've said this before, but what I loved most about this book is that it was real. People die. Not everyone gets a happy ending. Haymitch is a prime example of this as life for him isn't really that much different than it was before the rebellion. He isn't strong enough or motivated enough to rebuild. I didn't get enough time to really mourn for Finnick or Prim. I hope (and this is a big hope) that Gale's job in District 2 has to do with rebuilding that which he destroyed. That he finds a way to come back to humanity. And yes, I agree with whoever said that people like that are necessary in war. It's not pretty, but it's truth. Sometimes our scars just won't heal.

I'm not saying that I think we will be throwing kids into an area to fight to the death anytime soon, but Gladiators were forced to battle for their lives for the entertainment of others, and not all get their proper endings either. It's unfortunate, but it's life!

[Sam]

I liked this installment in part for a lot of the reasons that so many people didn't like it; I feel like Collins didn't cave to the pressure of putting a rainbow on a book series that exists in a world without a sun. Mockingjay was very characteristic of the world in which Panem exists, it only felt much darker because of Katniss growing and realizing that there was less and less light in the world than she had even thought to begin with.

That being said, man, depressing! I will be the first person to admit that I have, since the age of ten or so, always seen the world as a very dismal place where people will generally take the path of least resistance (and frequently the least good) when offered. For me, I felt Katniss echoing so much of how I felt and still feel about the world that it just sunk in on me for days. My only primary difference is that I do want to have children in the hopes that I can bring them up to be a benefit to the world and not so callous... but if I had been a participant in the Hunger Games and been party to so much loss, I don't think I would want children!

[Bethany]

Okay....Mockingjay....I was so excited about it and I'll have to admit it was a little hard to switch from the feel of the last 2 books....the whole just trying to survive, but in MJ they have each been tortured in different ways. Peeta is brainwashed and beaten in the Capitol and Katniss is forced into the role of the Mockingjay. I get that this book shows how the characters have become broken but it's all a little depressing. I liked the idea in the end that Peeta and Katniss had children...it shows that no matter what people go through with time comes healing and without the danger of the games hanging over their heads they can actually enjoy being a family and not fear for their childrens lives.

On the topic of Gale...I honestly hadn't made up my mind as to who i wanted Katniss to end up with but I am glad it was Peeta...not that I have anything against Gale....but he had been damaged in his own way.....when Katniss entered the games the first time he basically lost her....because even after she survives she was changed. I think that just gave Gale one more thing to blame the Capitol for...for taking Katniss away from him!

I honestly think the hardest part of the book for me was when Finnick dies...I nearly screamed at the book!! WHY?!??! Why did Finnick have to die....just when he finally finds happiness and marries Annie....and then to find out she has their baby and has to raise it alone!! Where is the justice.....but again....atleast that child will be safe from the games!

Over all I enjoyed this book but it was just a little heavy. The ending is both happy and sad...a little bitter sweet!

[Jaimie]

Jason wrote: "I just finished it too! Though I loved the first two--which were just about awe-inspiring--this third one really seemed to rub me the wrong way. Almost nothing seemed to work for me, though I am st..."

Agreed! I thought it was a really sad ending - like hopes and dreams died, there was nothing of the girl on fire left.

[Jessica B]

I have to say I loved all of your posts. It was like reliving the book again. Some of the posts gave me goosebumps while others made me tear up.

I absolutely loved this trilogy. It was like Suzanne Collins was able to throw me right in the books and make me feel like I was living every moment along with Katniss. Mockingjay, I thought, was very well written. I am a fan of dark and twisty books and this one really had me all twisted up inside. I was so torn up that I just wasn't myself for days. I don't think this story could have your traditional HEA. And I felt it was more of a live life the only way you can after overcoming so many tragedies.

I think after I let the books settle for a little bit I would like to go back and read them again, see what happens.

[Courtney]

I also love all the different takes on this book. It really shows that what you bring to a book shapes how you see it. I saw the ending as hopeful as well b/c I have a child. To me, children are redemption no matter what has happened in your life. Unconditional love is an amazing balm to life's scars.

Jessica-- I would also like to go back and read the series in a few years. Books take on different meaning at different times in your life.

[Heidi]

No matter what your take on this book was, you have to say this book really sticks with you doesn't it?

[Brittany (finally graduated and can once again read for fun)]

Absolutely Heidi. I agree 100%. I also would like to go back the re-read the trilogy as a whole one day. However, after all the intensity it will probably be a while. (okay, so maybe just a year... but I'm not picking up HG tomorrow that's for sure.) My wounds need time to heal too. My poor poor Cinna!

[Jason]

Courtney wrote: "I also love all the different takes on this book. It really shows that what you bring to a book shapes how you see it. I saw the ending as hopeful as well b/c I have a child. To me, children are re..."

I don't think there are many people who could disagree with this. It just goes to show how rich the series is that there are so many valid ways a reader can approach it. I have to admit with all the romance going on I was wondering if she would backtrack on her resistance to having kids. A reader primarily looking for a stable world might have another take. Certainly someone hoping for a pleasant end to the trauma that the games caused Katniss's sister and mother might not be pleased.

Yes, Cinna was a great figure in this book. Katniss idolized him, sort of like Harry with Dumbledore.

[Jason]

Hey, did anybody watch the video of Suzanne Collins on the hunger games website? http://www.scholastic.com/thehungerga... . It was cool to see her, but when she started to read I had to shut it off after 10 seconds because that wasn't how the book sounded to me at all. What did you think?

[Heidi]

I stopped watching it too Jason.

[Brittany (finally graduated and can once again read for fun)]

With the southern accent? I haven't seen it, but I've heard. I guess it is around West Virginia, but I didn't picture it that way either.

[Jason]

Yeah, the accent was a little strange, but I was more put off by the tempo. She was reading like the story was about a lazy Sunday afternoon. Maybe that's the author's reading style, but I always imagined something more...intense.

[Heidi]

I just got the feeling she was uncomfortable with public speaking which then made me uncomfortable. But I feel her pain, I am not much of a public speaker.

[Brittany (finally graduated and can once again read for fun)]

I have heard that the audio version of these books is terrible too.

[Vicki]

About Katniss being a mother:
In the epilogue, I think Collins was reminding us, perhaps too briefly, of the healing power of children themselves. Katniss and Peeta, by having children, are deepening their connection to each other and to their world. I can't remember exactly who said it, but it makes me think of this quote, "He who has children gives hostages to fortune." Katniss would never, ever have had children unless the world was a safer place. And they, in turn, will help her heal and grow and care about the world around her again.
I try to remember that Collins' audience are children/ YA, although many adults love these books. I think the message that children and young adults can shake the world, as Katniss did, or help and heal the world, as Katniss did and hopefully her own children will do, is the bottom line. Even a world as brutal as Panem and District Thirteen. Perhaps *especially* worlds as brutal as Panem and District Thirteen. Although truthfully, I think the sole savior of District Thirteen is Buttercup. If he hadn't played Crazy Cat, that whole bunker would have died from taking themselves too seriously.

[Becca]

rofl! I love the Buttercup comment, especially since my husband swore up to the end that Buttercup was going to be a mutt and a spy in district 13. lol!

[Jason]

Becca wrote: "rofl! I love the Buttercup comment, especially since my husband swore up to the end that Buttercup was going to be a mutt and a spy in district 13. lol!"

Whoa! That's the best idea I've heard yet! I would've loved it if that were true.