SciFi and Fantasy eBook Club discussion
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What price is too high for an ebook?
Alex wrote: "Unknown author, first book...$3.99 tops.
Known author...probably cap at $5.99, simply because it does start to add up quic..."
At those prices, I'd run out of books to read to quickly. The book has to worth my time to read it, not just have low cost. There have been a few good books in that range, but they've been reprints of previously published works or on a special sale price.
Known author...probably cap at $5.99, simply because it does start to add up quic..."
At those prices, I'd run out of books to read to quickly. The book has to worth my time to read it, not just have low cost. There have been a few good books in that range, but they've been reprints of previously published works or on a special sale price.
Thought you might find the following interesting. Fantasy author Juliet McKenna talking about all the work involved in turning a paperback backlist into eBooks.http://www.julietemckenna.com/?p=840
and
http://www.julietemckenna.com/?p=852 (also issues on publications rights)
And her thoughts on eBook prices as well
http://www.julietemckenna.com/?p=856
Some of what she has to say has already been covered on this thread, some of it is new.
(Oh and I'd recommend her books too :). Well written, well researched.)
I know this is an old topic...but since I am new here, I had to jump on it. I don't think there SHOULD be a too high price for e-books. For one, (and here I am going to whine and moan if this actually happens) I think publishers would be wise not to publish E-books at the same time they publish Hard-covers. Publish the e-books at the same time the paperbacks are published and make them a slight percentage lower in price than the paperback. This keeps them tied into the the economy. As the price of dead tree books rise, so the publishers/retailers/authors can make their profits, so too should the price of e-books.
I've said it before, there aren't enough quality ebooks at $5.99 price range. Other than the occasional daily deal or sale, most ebook worth reading cost more. There are execptions, but as general rule limiting the price range to $5.99 will get you a whole lot of indie authors or PD classics. Most of the books selected for this group, for example, cost more.
Oaky, I said I would whine and moan if publishers took my suggestion. Well, they haven't, but I just saw a book on BN....Just out in hardback with a price of $17.84 (discounted price...says it SHOULD be $27.00) Yet at the same time they are publishing the Nook book version for 14.99. Now some may argue that this is too high. I wouldn't. I personally think it is danged good price considering that the e-book SHOULD only be a percentage or so lower than the other available formats. I imagine when the Paperback is published, the E-book price will be lowered to reflect it. The only problem I see with this is that they are publishing the Nook Book at the same time as the hardback...Pirates are not going to wait for the paperback to be released before they grab this up and make it available on the web. I seriously think the publishers are hurting themselves by doing this.
Clay wrote: "Just out in hardback with a price of $17.84 (discounted price...says it SHOULD be $27.00) Yet at the same time they are publishing the Nook book version for 14.99."While I personally wouldn't pay that price for an ebook I also wouldn't complain so long as the ebook price drops when the paperback version is released.
I do have to disagree on your point that there shouldn't be an ebook release until the paperback version is released to prevent pirate copies. Even if there is no official ebook to strip the drm from, a pirate can just scan or even type the book to create a pirate copy.
I sell my own e-books on Amazon for the cheapest possible price, that is, 0.77pence in the UK which is around $1.20 in the US. I think certainly lesser known authors such as myself should price things cheap like this (it encourages more downloads and word of mouth spreads if they like the book, which is what I'm after more than just profit!)Of course, I think if people are charging more than £5 for a paperback equivalent, I think it's too steep. You can buy paperback copies for less, and they take a lot more time to produce!
I think an ebook should cost the same as it does as the version that is out (Hard cover cost if hard cover only available. Paperback cost if paperback is available.) There are some ebooks that have paperback versions out that are significantly cheaper than the ebook. Makes it not worth the buy.
I won't pay anything over the price of a paperback and I actually think that an e-book should be cheaper. Moving to an e-reader has taken away my ability to buy second hand books which has long been one of the ways that I obtain books. I just don't have the budget to buy every book that I might want to read . I'm not just this way with books, I also shop for clothing, furniture and other things that have been pre-used. To me it is a waste to buy a book, read it once and then keep it around. For this reason, I will only buy authors that I'm familiar with and know I will like enough to re-read--the rest of my books come from the library. I do love my e-reader though and I know that as e-books get more popular libraries will have more available and wait times will be less or the price of e-books may come down as the industry realizes that they can sell more if they make them more affordable.
Just thought I would toss this one out here: http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/charo...
Notice the prices. paperback: $7.99 Nook Book: $14.53
I seriously do not understand this one. Amazon, has the paperback at the same price, but the Kindle Book is listed at $9.78. Better than the Nook Book, but still more than the Paperback.
I hope to be able to experiment with the 2.99 price. Perhaps even the 99 cent. However, I'm not sure if I'll have any say on pricing. I think that somewhere from 2 to $5 feels right for an ebook.
I like the way Orbit does their pricing. When the books are in hardcover the ebooks are one price, when they put out the mass market paperback they lower the ebook.For instance: Blinding Knife is currently $25.99/$9.99. But Black Prism is $7.99 for both (and then Amazon is even discounting the ebook down to $5.99.
Vanessa wrote: "I hope to be able to experiment with the 2.99 price. Perhaps even the 99 cent. However, I'm not sure if I'll have any say on pricing. I think that somewhere from 2 to $5 feels right for an ebook."For me, the difference between $0.99 and $2.99 is just the three-fold difference in cost. But, for a KDP author, it's a 6-fold difference in compensation. For an author I enjoy, I'd rather pay a little more and have them get a bigger portion of what I'm paying...at least for novel length items.
From that same perspective, an author running the price over $5 seems excessive. That is, I can see a good reason to go to $2.99 instead of $0.99.
But what irks me is the authors that will charge $2.99 for a 16-page book. Only rarely have I run into a short story worth even $0.99.
And not all authors are KDP...
A related pet peeve of mine is reviewers that will give a low rating of a book because of the cost. That shouldn't have any bearing on the quality of the book itself. However, I think it is a fair thing to mention in the review. So, I might give a free short story I've downloaded a 4 or 5 rating, but I will mention in my review I don't think it is worth the normal $2.99 cost.
If I gave low ratings on books because of price, some of my favorite authors with the mainstream publishers would be getting a lot of 1-star ratings. :)
Besides, I've seen books change in charged price over time, so any rating based on price would then be invalid.
Pricing is something we struggled with. We started with $5.99 then dropped to $3.99 within a couple of weeks to try to boost sales. We figured that at 300+ pages by unknowns, that was fair.We're reluctant to go lower because when we had a one day give-a-way, one of the comments was, "why is it free? what's wrong with it?" If we lower the price too much, is the same question going to be asked?
And I agree about $2.99 for a short story. Even an established writer like John Scalzi is only charging 99 cents for each instalment of the Human League.
Randy, thanks for the thoughtful post. I guess it comes down to whether 4 or 5 times more people will buy the 99 cent book.
And I agree about the short stories.
I'm an new author as well and I struggled for a long time deciding what to set the price for my book at. At first I set it at 8.99 but I have recently changed it to 4.99 to see if that makes a difference. When the next book comes out later this year I MIT drop the price again to entice readers.
When I review a book, price does not come into play. I review based on plot, characterization and whether or not the blend worked for me.As a writer, I have no control over the cost of my books and stories because I have publishers. It may seem like 2.99 or 3.99 is "a lot" for a 30K word e-book where all you get is the file, but it takes an author a couple of weeks (more if they write slowly) to produce a first draft; double that time to self edit. Then the publisher pays for cover art, a content editor and a line editor. Many versions go back and forth from publisher to author before we settle on a final manuscript.
Given the labor that goes into writing, three or four bucks is a bargain. If it takes me a hundred twenty hours labor for 30K published words, it doesn't take a math genius to see I'd have to sell a whole lot of books to make writing viable. (I get from 35% to 50% of what the publisher gets for my writing. For 99 cent titles, that's about twenty cents.)
The only reason it doesn't seem three and four dollar books are worthwhile is because of the proliferation of 99 cent and "free" books from writers who just want to get their work "out there."
I just paid $14 for an e-book about the history of the Mason Dixon line and was glad to get it because the hardcover copy is long since out of print.
At the end of the day, I guess it's all a matter of perspective.
I think $3.99 is a good price for a decent book by an unknown writer. I'll try the $0.99 books now and then but the majority of them are terrible, so I wouldn't recommend any writer to price theirs at that price. They risk not even being looked at. The best thing ever is the Sample button--if I can't get through the sample, I'm not buying it. I sample everything these days, even the bestsellers.I think length can factor in as well, so longer books by unknown indie's I'm willing to pay $4.99 or $5.99. I'll go as high as $9.99 for a bestselling writer or one I've been reading a long time. For that, it had better be a great book.
Judy wrote: "I think $3.99 is a good price for a decent book by an unknown writer.That is close to what I tried - but with very limited success!
Judy wrote: ". . I'll try the $0.99 books now and then but the majority of them are terrible"
Oh, you have no idea how strongly I agree with that. Some of them are so bad I daren't even write a review to warn other people, in case I get flamed or even sued!
Judy wrote: ". . .I think length can factor in as well, so longer books by unknown indie's I'm willing to pay $4.99 or $5.99"
You reassure me - but I still have a year's worth of sales that look more like a poor week's worth. I got a couple of good reviews on Amazon, but apart from that I have no idea how to run publicity (without getting reprimanded for spamming).
Any suggestions? Any review offers?
I just published my first novel (I also have some short stories out) and I can't say my sales have been stellar either, but I still believe in the pricing structure. What I keep hearing over and over from established authors is the more books you have out there, the more they pull in readers, so I'm just trying to get out the next book. I'm also waiting for several reviews so we'll see if that helps. I have a print version so I did a Giveaway--that certainly has upped the number of people who have added my book to their "To Read" list.
Good luck!
Alan wrote: Some of them are so bad I daren't even write a review to warn other people, in case I get flamed or even sued!"I grabbed a couple of e-books from giveaways, and even free they weren't worth it. But I don't write a review because I fear retaliation on my book. I even shy away from the review groups here because it's not too difficult to trace "Salad Is Slaughter" on amazon.com to me.
Judy wrote: ". . I did a Giveaway--that certainly has upped the number of people who have added my book to their "To Read" list."
We've given away well over 200 books over 2 different one-day giveaways but have only gotten 5 reviews so far. Granted, when I download a book it might take months before I get to it so I'm really not too surprised that other people are the same way.
Frank wrote: We've given away well over 200 books over 2 different one-day giveaways but have only gotten 5 reviews so far. Granted, when I download a book it might take months before I get to it so I'm really not too surprised that other people are the same way. This is why I think it is all a very slow process, so I'm just not going to worry about the numbers right now. I'll just use the time to get more books and stories written. I have a couple reviews that have been positive, and that's good enough for now.
I do wonder about pricing for short stories, however. Since the $0.99 seems so poisonous, I have some at $1.99 and some at $2.99--I go back and forth about having them at that price. I keep them in two-packs that average about 7000 to 10,000 words to give more value.
Judy wrote: "Since the $0.99 seems so poisonous, I have some at $1.99 and some at $2.99--I go back and forth about having them at that price...."I don't think $0.99 is bad for a short story. John Scalzi is selling parts of Human Division for that price, although he is established.
Personally, I don't buy individual short stories but I can't really tell you why that is.
Ann wrote: "The only reason it doesn't seem three and four dollar books are worthwhile is because of the proliferation of 99 cent and "free" books from writers who just want to get their work "out there."That's exactly why many readers think it's tough to spend 3 bucks on a book. Indie authors have trained readers to expect to pay very little or nothing for ebooks. It's actually interesting to see how the market has changed over the years for ebooks. When the Kindle first arrived on the market, the early adopters were used to paying $10 bucks a pop for Indie books. All of my Kindle books sold for $9.99 at that time and I had no problems selling them. Then cheap books became the rave when it seemed nearly every author was trying to sell their books for the lowest price possible. This was an attractive price point for readers because they were able to download lots of cheap books. Of course, once Amazon allowed free indie books into the Kindle store, it killed the attraction of 99 cents priced books.
Now it seems that prices are starting to creep back up again. But there's always a new wave of authors still playing the game as if it were still 2010 and forcing prices back down again. It will be interested to see if the higher prices stick or if $2.99 will remain the most popular price for ebooks into the near future.
Kevis wrote: "It will be interested to see if the higher prices stick or if $2.99 will remain the most popular price for ebooks into the near future. "Interesting indeed. Personally, I am sticking with my current $3.99 on Amazon.com. It is on the high side, but the book is quite substantial (nearly 150000 words, over 9000 locations on Kindle) and has some good reviews (sadly the best one is on Amazon.co.uk, not on Amazon.com, but that's life!).
Something in that range sounds fair for an Indie. I haven't had the expense of dead tree printing, or distribution costs - and such promotion as I can manage is costing me time, not money. Perhaps that last is why I am not doing so well at the moment!
Of course, I think my work is good - but at least part of the reason I am on Kindle is to find out if anyone else agrees with me. If they do, then I will be picked up by a traditional publisher, and there (I hope) is where the money starts to roll in. In the mean time - the other part of the reason I am there is just for the status.
But what annoys me is the clear profiteering of traditional publishers who get an established author and put his/her work out on ebook at 85-90% of the paperback price. OK, there is still the promotional cost to consider, and Amazon's cut, but no paper, no printing, no distribution. Profiteering is what it looks like to me, and I haven't seen any argument yet to make me think otherwise.
Looking back over my Kindle history, it seems I rarely get freebies. In fact, a majority of freebies I've gotten have been since I joined goodreads. Probably because of promotions I've seen here. When browsing on Amazon, it appears I treat freebies the same way I treat e-books that cost--I get a sample first! The cost of an e-book has nothing to do with quality or whether or not the book, regardless of quality, appeals to me (A good example would be Kevis' book! I found the writing to be quality work and would suggest others check it out, even though it did not appeal to me.) I do not believe I have ever pointed anyone towards an Amazon freebie. I have, however, pointed people to the old Baen's Free Library
Alan wrote: But what annoys me is the clear profiteering of traditional publishers who get an established author and put his/her work out on ebook at 85-90% of the paperback price. OK, there is still the promotional cost to consider, but no paper, no printing, no distribution. Profiteering is what it looks like to me, and I haven't seen any argument yet to make me think otherwise"This isn't very fair to assume. Most publishers work through a book distributor to ensure the ebook gets into all retailers. The retailers take anywhere from 40%+ of the book price and the distributor takes a cut. So on a $7.99 ebook, the publisher actually makes only about $2.99-$3.99, from which they also need to pay the author royalties. Work in promotional costs and there's not a lot left over.
Alan, of course it is! Rightly so! I expect to paymore for an eatblished author. I will be happy to pay that 85-90% for Elizabeth Moon's next Paks World novel. I know people have trouble with e-book prices...so do I. But that does not mean that they should not be tied to the economy or widely different from DTB prices. (Okay, stopping now before I start channeling my inner John Galt LOL)
Free or low prices are not a motivator for me to read or not read a book. I decide what to read based on the book. For example, a few authors have promoted their books in this group, but based on the descriptions, I knew the books were not the kind I would like. Making the book free or $0.99 isn't suddenly going to make me say, "Ok, I'll give this book a shot."
I look for books that will be good, not just books that are cheap. In other words, five books at $2.99 that I'm indifferent about aren't as good as one book at $14.99 that I'm eager to read.
I look for books that will be good, not just books that are cheap. In other words, five books at $2.99 that I'm indifferent about aren't as good as one book at $14.99 that I'm eager to read.
Dang it....Where the hell is the like button? Good Point, Greg!
Greg wrote: "Free or low prices are not a motivator for me to read or not read a book. I decide what to read based on the book. "Hi Greg. I agree with your position - quite strongly! Respect! But does your approach represent a majority? I hope so, but I am not confident.
Light Messages wrote: This isn't very fair to assume. Most publishers work through a book distributor [ ] The retailers take anywhere from 40%+ of the book price and the distributor takes a cut. [various figures]"Hi Light Messages
And I note you are a publisher and therefore know what you are talking about. Could we have some more details? As I said in my earlier message, "I haven't seen any argument yet to make me think otherwise." but I am willing to be convinced - my knowledge of the publishing industry is, I admit, second hand and 30 years out of date. So more details please. Printing costs? Paper distribution costs? Do those generally add up to about the same as an electronic distributors cut? Are promotional costs comparable in both cases? I recognise that a proper response might be a bit long, and everything is complicated anyway because of the unit cost/fixed cost balance problem - but I would be interested to see the case.
Greg wrote: "Free or low prices are not a motivator for me to read or not read a book. ..."Que? Previous attempt to reply seems to have evaporated.
Hi Greg
I agree with you - strongly! Much respect. However - does your approach represent a majority of readers? There, I am less confident.
Greg wrote: "Free or low prices are not a motivator for me to read or not read a book. I decide what to read based on the book."Same for me. But with hundreds of new books offered free each day on Amazon, I'm able to choose free books based on what I want to read.
Why would I look at a list of $14.99 books when I can look at a list of free books? I'll grant that the average quality in the two groups is different, but I've found many free books that I've loved.
Now, if I were deleting most of the free books after reading the first 2 or 3 chapters, then I might start ignoring the free books. But I've had very few 1- and 2-star ratings of free books I've downloaded.
When I used to read DTB, I read a lot of King and Koontz. But I would NEVER pay their eBook prices. Heck, I always got their paperback books at the half-price book store, because I thought the cover prices were outrageous.
Clay wrote: "When browsing on Amazon, it appears I treat freebies the same way I treat e-books that cost--I get a sample first!"Why even bother with the sample? If you don't like the freebie, you can just delete it immediately. And, if you decide you do like it, it may no longer be free...
If I want to sample a book, I just use the "Look Inside" feature on Amazon.
Randy, just habit I guess. Also, for books that cost, that sample has to be enough to convince me to pay for the book. For freebies, the sample has to be enough to convince me to dl the full book. I am also more likely to leave feedback explaining why I did/did not dl the full version.
Just wanted to say how much I've been enjoying reading the various opinions on this thread.
Greg wrote: " There are execptions, but as general rule limiting the price range to $5.99 will get you a whole lot of indie authors or PD classics."The suggestion here is that indie authors aren't as good as mainstream-published authors... and I'd say that is changing rapidly, as mainstream authors go indie and as new authors work harder to match the quality of mainstream press.
I've read material by indie authors that has impressed me a great deal more than material by mainstream authors. (And I've been told my own novels compare evenly with mainstream material.) I ignore imprints and reputations, and judge solely based on whether I expect to like the book, determined by reviews and samples wherever possible.
Personally, I like the $4-$6 range for ebooks, and have gone as high as $8 so far... beyond that is a stretch for me. But even in the $4-$6 range, there's plenty of quality writing to choose from.
Hey! There ya are. How's it going Steven?
Ok all you $4.99 or less people, here is a challenge. I've been sent a $5.00 credit to the Nook store. I don't normally use Nook books, so the challenge is to recommend something that will cost $5.00 or less including 9.5% WA sales tax because I don't feel like giving Nook any money for a format I'll probably never use again.
I'm open to all genres not just science fiction or fantasy. My only dealbreakers:
1. No series
2. No young adult
3. No vampires or zombies
It should probably be DRM free if possible because it will be read on a Kindle and I'm too lazy to crack DRM for just one book.
I'm open to all genres not just science fiction or fantasy. My only dealbreakers:
1. No series
2. No young adult
3. No vampires or zombies
It should probably be DRM free if possible because it will be read on a Kindle and I'm too lazy to crack DRM for just one book.
The Joshua Machine by James H. Clay $3.00 literary historical originally published by Canto Review of the Arts
I just started A Woman of the Iron People and so far (about 15 percent in) it's pretty good. $4.99 for the nook version.
Kenny wrote: "Hey! There ya are. How's it going Steven?"Not bad: I'm trying to get back into "world participation" mode (not to mention the "trying to sell books" mode). I miss talking with SF fans!
Greg wrote: "It should probably be DRM free if possible because it will be read on a Kindle and I'm too lazy to crack DRM for just one book."So, you're planning to convert it from Nook to Kindle format? Or has Kindle learned to read ePub formats and no one told me? (I've been busy.)
Steven wrote: "So, you're planning to convert it from Nook to Kindle format? Or has Kindle learned to read ePub formats and no one told me? (I've been busy.) "
I'll convert it with Calibre. It's that or read on my iPhone.
I'll check out the two recommendations so far. Thanks.
I'll convert it with Calibre. It's that or read on my iPhone.
I'll check out the two recommendations so far. Thanks.
Steven wrote: "Kenny wrote: "Hey! There ya are. How's it going Steven?"Not bad: I'm trying to get back into "world participation" mode (not to mention the "trying to sell books" mode). I miss talking with SF f..."
Keep up the Good Fight! :D
Kenny wrote: "Keep up the Good Fight! :D "I think this fight has gone from interesting drama to slapstick "Whaddaya mean, he's not gonna take a fall?" moment, and I'm now forced to run around like a stooge trying to avoid being K-O'd by the pro. Things don't bode well for the challenger... expect the predictable result!
I actually just raised my prices a notch, since low prices obviously weren't making a positive impact on sales. I decided that my prices might as well be closer to market standard, as so many people tend to assume too-low prices equal lousy books. (And when sales are as low as mine, nothing you can do can make things any worse!)
That's not sounding good. But I do understand. I took on the writing effort full time almost exactly a year ago and can't say I've much to show for it at this point. I have self-published some stories, essays and a collection of poetry - at reasonably low prices, working on a few things fiction, essays, novel but not ready yet....Hang in there!
SciFi and Fantasy eBook Club
Books mentioned in this topic
First Flight (other topics)The Biofab War (other topics)
A Woman of the Iron People (other topics)
Catalyst (other topics)
Parallel Stories (other topics)
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There are two authors whose work I would consider paying more for but luckily they're with Baen who price their ebooks very reasonably. Even for their work I'd stop if the price approached hardback prices.