SciFi and Fantasy eBook Club discussion
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What price is too high for an ebook?
The amazon forums are rage infused over much more than Indies writers ... its not a healthy atmosphere.
It's been awhile since I perused the Amazon forums. Since like I haven't missed anything. I've seen a number of flame-outs on there, but, fortunately, I've managed not to be one of the targets.
Wow everyone. Thanks for the information. I will be certain to steer clear of the Amazon forums. The book is finished, and I had a friend who's a professional do the copy-editing. Mostly, I am waiting on my cover artist at this point.
I am one to always provide encouragement to new authors, but the ease of self publishing and the inability to do advance filtering on reviews has made it terribly difficult for good authors to stand out in a crowd. It has also made it and even tougher for readers, like myself, to find good new authors to follow.My advice to upcoming authors is to try to get your material in front of an editor at an established publishing house. If you can't do that, then approach people that you do not know and ask them to read your effort and provide criticism. The feedback that you'll receive will help you fine tune your work.
In all likelihood, if you do either of those, you'll receive some criticisms that will hurt. No one likes to have their work criticized, but it is the only way to make your work better.
I agree with the above poster. I think the e-book should definitely cost less than the MMP, and I don't care who the author or publisher is.
Attended uPublishU at BookExpo America yesterday, and thought this might be of interest. The founder of Smashwords said the best price point for ebooks was $2.99 to $5.99. He said he definitely did not recommend $.99 because the number of sales did not justify the low price and the small amount the author would make as a result.
Since some Kindle eBooks are just short stories, $0.99 can be totally appropriate. And sometimes overpriced on those.
My 'comfort' price range is $5.99 or less. I might pay more if it is an author I really like, but usually won't even pay that much if it is an unknown author to me. I would say the ideal price is $2.99 - this way I know that the author is getting a good percentage of the profit and I'm able to save some money in the process.
I would pay, if it was one of the authors and books that I know I love, up to 9 dollars for an ebook as they are so convenient for me. I travel a lot so its very difficult for me to carry physical books and very expensive to ship them so my kindles are my option.I have returned home from some of those travels now and I can say for certain, I love to read new authors works, and I will post reviews on them as well. I am looking to branch out a little from my usual high fantasy genre. I'm a Tolkien, Martin, Goodkind, that type of book reader usually however, I believe it would do me good to look at other types of books.
In other words, if you have any you have just written and would like someone to read and review them, now that I am back state side and can use my kindle again (its almost impossible short of a VPN connection in the states to download onto the kindles and airport wireless networks are sometimes hard to find overseas) I would be more than happy to download it, read it and of course would post a review. Just send me a link if you would like and I'll make sure I read and review. All genres are welcome as I want to branch out from the comfort zone :)
Depends on what it is. If it's something from one of the big publishers, I'll go up to about $6. I don't buy these books unless I've already read them, or unless I've read a lot by that author, so that way I know I'm going to like it, but I refuse to pay more for an e-version than for a paperback. I've not yet bought something from someone indie/self-pubbed, pretty much because I don't often have the chance to read before I buy... and of the ones I've read so far, I've not been inclined to buy more by that author. That might change. If I read something by an author and liked it enough to want to buy the rest of their books, I'd be willing to pay up to $6 or so, but I would need to have read something of theirs first - I wouldn't drop that much money on a complete unknown.
I hadn't thought of setting a high price to attract borrows. I gave the select programme a go, but during the 90 days didn't get a single borrow. Maybe a higher price there would have helped?There is so much psychology involved in this business!
Personally, I've found some success in setting my first book free and my second at 3.99. I mean, nothing amazing, about 100 purchases of book 2 and 1200 free downloads of book 1 a month, but it's nice to see people reading the stuff I wrote.I also seem to get 1 unsolicited review about every 800 free downloads, which is cool too. Just a thought on things to do once you have a book or two to your name.
Now here's an interesting thread. The problem is that different things work for different people. I would guess that any other marketing being done is a significant factor, and pure luck is the rest of it.Librarymouse makes a good point about how much he/she is prepared to spend on an unfamiliar author - but the logical answer is to look on Amazon. The dot.com branch has a loan system, so a reader should be able to get a free look at something before buying - and the dot.co.dot.uk branch has a 'free sample' system so you can get the first 5-10% of a book without spending money. Mind, it doesn't always work - I took the free sample of "Fifty Shades of Grey" and thought it was a vampire story - then when I bought the whole thing I found it was sado-porn. I shan't be buying the others!
The fact remains - there is a limit to what people will spend. So what is a reasonable price? Indies and first books often go free, at least for a while, but established authors go for £7 or more (yes, £ - I'm English!). So what is sensible? It seems to me that the established authors are asking quite a lot for something that doesn't have printing or distribution costs (but I am not sure if the fault is with the authors themselves or some old-style publisher that has them under contract). So what is sensible for a first-timer such as myself? I don't know! And its kind of difficult to find reliable advice - this market is still relatively young and not yet stable.
Paul's last sentence really struck a note with me!
Sky seems to have got it right - but I would love to know what other marketing he is using, because I suspect that (or pure luck) is the difference between his hundred a month and my fifty since last October!
Any further advice, anyone?
Alan
Alan wrote: "Sky seems to have got it right - but I would love to know what other marketing he is using, because I suspect that (or pure luck) is the difference between his hundred a month and my fifty since last October!"I've had my first book reviewed by a half dozen blogs, and made a couple threads here on Goodreads when it was in KDP Select and I ran promotions, but other than that I haven't really done anything.
When I had just the one book out, I was selling 15-30 copies a month (found better sales at 2.99 than 0.99 cents). Once book 2 was released, I saw a small spike in sales, but nothing major.
When I made book 1 free, I began to see book 2 sell. Now, I've gotten lots of positive feedback on the books as a whole from people I don't know (because friends, family, and people-who-refer-to-you-by-name-in-a-review don't count), including readers visiting my website to ask about the next book. And that's great. But looking at the first two chapters, I can't blame anyone for just giving up on it. I'm glad that I decided it was done enough to publish, but also sad that I didn't spend just a little bit more time on it. Maybe one day I'll tighten up the prose to see if more people continue on through the series.
Once I finish my trilogy (in August), I intend to take about a month for just marketing the books, including ads on Goodreads, blog tours, clever review request letters, and several illustrated promotional short stories that I've been holding on to. We'll see what comes of it.
Over the course of June, I had 1396 free downloads of book 1 and 119 purchases of book 2, to give you an idea of how I'm doing with it right now.
My advice is this: read Kevin Kelly's post about the power of true fans. Give people a reason to read your book, because there are plenty of books to read. And have fun, because you're right, luck is a big part of the game.
I'm going to give you the way four authors I know went from 20-30 a month to 7-800. It's a book.8 Hours to Jump Start Your Career
http://www.amazon.com/Hours-Jump-Star...
I price my books by word count and how long they've been published. They range from $1.99 to $9.99, novella to combined series. $2.99-$4.99 seems to be the sweet spot, but the series is the biggest SF bargain on Amazon or Smashwords and is my best seller. I write for a fairly tight target market, so I see a lot of 1,1,1,1,1 sales. It's not unusual for someone to buy ten or more books at a time, but the bigger books sell better for me.
Sky wrote: "Alan wrote: "Hi Sky
And thanks.
I followed the link to Kevin Kelly's site - the bit I came to first was the 'Long Tail' concept, which is something I have come across before but not been able to apply to my own situation.
And many thanks for your explanations of how you got to your present sales level . . . I shall be planning my own tactics accordingly, though it may well take a couple of months to get it sorted. A few days of free giveaway in October just before book 2 comes out looks like a good idea. In the mean time I just have to keep my fingers crossed, make sure my website is near the top of Google's search results, and hope a couple of free short stories on the website will lead a few people to follow the links to Amazon. Maybe I should go looking for 4-leaved clover or other good-luck charms as well!
For me, price isn't such a big factor to a point. If it is an author I tend to read quite a bit I will be willing to pay a bit more than normal. Most times what I'm willing to pay will be dependant on a few factors. Who the author is, what the genre of the book is and how long it is. Past that, I don't tend to take much stock into the cost unless it is just way over the top. :)
I AM GUILTY OF PAYNG $14.99 FOR SOME EBOOKS BUT IM FINDIND MANY NEW AUTHORS AND WHOLE SERIES IN THE FREE BOOKSTHAT IM ENJOING ALOT AND ALL UNDER4.99
I priced my newly released sci-fi novel at $9.99 print and $2.99 Kindle. At $9.99, I make about $2.60 per print novel, and at $2.99, I make about $2.01 per e-book. I started out at $0.99 (for about a week) and then decided I was really undervaluing my novel. Some readers complain about unedited work, etc. Mine was professionally edited, etc, and I had a lot of cost associated with getting it out there, so I decided to bump up the price. $2.99 appears to be reasonable for a full-length novel from an unknown author. Royalty-wise, it's almost on par with a print book, so that's nice too.
I just cannot wrap my head around why a digital edition would cost more than hardcover print version of same.
I doubt a 4-5000 word sample would convince me to buy a fiction book for over $2.99. That tells me it's a short book. I won't pay more for something I can read in a little over an hour. So word count is very important in pricing, at least to me. If it's not at least 150,000 words, $4.99 is too high. I have a book that's just 110,000 priced at $4.29, but it's won three awards. I think the winner of the Dream Realm SF novel of the year (2000) is about 180,000. It's $3.99.
It still comes down to the hook. The first paragraph is the most important in the book. That's the paragraph that will sell it, if it's in the price range the reader thinks appropriate.
Joe Konrath gives a pretty good argument for using the $0.99 price point. He drops his book prices to get them in the top 100, then raises them to $2.99, then back to $0.99 when the book drops off the list.Eric Quinn Knowles
Hello. I am a very recently published indie author. Due to costs, I am only pursuing the e-book route at this stage, but feedback from potential buyers have prompted me to arrange a createspace format.. pending.When it came time to price my book, I was in the same boat and conundrum which you have all discussed here. Yes, I am a debut author, however this would be my 10th novel written. Name any reasons you want as to why I didnt publish the other books.
Anyway, when I decided to publish this book, I treated the book, and myself, as a professional. I had a professional book designer work on my cover art. I had 2 editors work on the first draft, and 1 different editor work on the second draft. The final draft had 2 copy editors work on it.
The final copy of my novel is 97 000 words long.
What to price it? It isn't something I just thew together, but somethign I invested a LOT of my time and effort in to. I see on Smashwords 3-4000 word erotica and short stories selling for $3. I value my work at more than that. I see first time authors selling their books at $0.99. I value my work more than that as well.
So I set the price at $7.95US, the upper limit, from what i have read on here. I know I wont get the 0.99c bargain hunters, and a lot of people will read the free sample and not want anything else. But, I am happy with that price.
Yes, I am sure I will drop it in months to come, but, I felt that, with the word count, and the editing and artwork, it is a good book, despite my debut/indie status.
My 2 cents :)
Eric wrote: "Joe Konrath gives a pretty good argument for using the $0.99 price point. He drops his book prices to get them in the top 100, then raises them to $2.99, then back to $0.99 when the book drops off ..."Although he recently lowered his books to $0.99 and I don't think any of them went to Top 100. For instance the list went from 5,059 to 2,795 during his recently $0.99 experiment and he's right back to 6,617 just a few days later.
Interesting about the Konrath update. Maybe his strategy works best when his books are fresh.Eric Quinn Knowles
I'm not sure it has to do with being "fresh" as all the books have been out for a good long time - I think it's more a matter of he's done the $0.99 thing several times and most of the people have already purchased his books on a previous sale.
The amount I'm prepared to spend depends on the author and the subject. Mostly, my ebooks are fantasy novels so I will pay up to £6-7 (roughly $10). I do go for free ebooks but mostly these are to check out an author or if the story is short. I have found that indie authors do write really good books so will support them. Not really convinced that well known authors are that much better in some cases. I have found some real gems written by indie writters.
I'm baffled by readers willing to pay as much for an ebook as a print edition. What are you really getting? Digital content. Can't prop a table up with that. Can't read that when the power goes out or you're somewhere you can't charge your ereader.As an author, I simply couldn't charge the same price- it's like price gouging.
In print, authors might make a buck off a novel. In electronic format, where there's no actual printing cost, far more of that price is profit, so the ebooks SHOULD be cheaper.
I agree but it's the publishers that are making the prices, not amazon or the other book stores. The publishers just want a bigger cut of the pie. Amazon tried to keep their low prices and the publishers were going to cut them off. Or, at least, this is what I understand.
@C.e.Not every book is as much as a paperback...and they often have specials...free or as low as .99. Sometimes you can find unique books you might not have looked at. As for power....my kindle can go for a month if I don't turn on the 3G. That's at least one book. There's something about sitting at home...downloading a book...and there it is ...no waiting.
Sigh... ;)
I still buy physical books, also. Certain ones I just want that way.
C.e. wrote: "I'm baffled by readers willing to pay as much for an ebook as a print edition. What are you really getting? Digital content."
It's the content and experience I buy. I pay for tickets to concerts, theater, and museums; if I'm lucky I walk away with a playbill to toss in the trash afterwards. But I've had great experiences listening to a Mozart piano concerto, watching Shakespeare a play under starlight, and seeing a Van Gough hanging on the wall. Anyone who implies those events should cost a buck is a Nutsy Fagan, IMHO. Why should a good book be different? You've have to pony up more than $12.99 or $14.99 for Mozart live. Now, if the books you want to read are slush pile quality or hyped up bestsellers, then may you have a point. Nobody with sense would want to pay the price of a Ruths Chris Steakhouse dinner for a meal at the Golden Corral.
And I still have the ebook file to reread later if I want to re-experience it. Sure, I'd like ebooks to cost less, but, then again, I'd like most things to cost less too.
It's the content and experience I buy. I pay for tickets to concerts, theater, and museums; if I'm lucky I walk away with a playbill to toss in the trash afterwards. But I've had great experiences listening to a Mozart piano concerto, watching Shakespeare a play under starlight, and seeing a Van Gough hanging on the wall. Anyone who implies those events should cost a buck is a Nutsy Fagan, IMHO. Why should a good book be different? You've have to pony up more than $12.99 or $14.99 for Mozart live. Now, if the books you want to read are slush pile quality or hyped up bestsellers, then may you have a point. Nobody with sense would want to pay the price of a Ruths Chris Steakhouse dinner for a meal at the Golden Corral.
And I still have the ebook file to reread later if I want to re-experience it. Sure, I'd like ebooks to cost less, but, then again, I'd like most things to cost less too.
I'm with you on that one, Greg. I wish more people would think about what they are getting as an experience rather than just a small digital file. Whether it's printed in a glossy hardback of downloaded in ebook format, I still spend just as long designing it, writing it and refining it.You're not paying for a data transfer, you're paying the creator for his/her creative talent.
Before there were ebooks, we paid authors about a buck for their talent- that's all they got out of a printed book. Maybe less. The bulk of our money paid for the actual printing of the book.Now that books are paperless, they should cost LESS, not more.
Publishers are making far more profit with ebooks than they ever dreamed of with printed books. That's just wrong.
Greg: Your analogies are all about live exhibitions. I would pay the extra money to hear a favorite author in person, but paying for a book is more along the lines of paying for a CD of Mozart or a paper print of Van Gogh. And yes, that is around the $10 mark that people seem to favor for e-books.My issue is the same as C.e., namely that writers are getting the same royalties while publishers are milking the cash cow of nonexistent printing costs.
C.e. wrote: "Before there were ebooks, we paid authors about a buck for their talent- that's all they got out of a printed book. Maybe less. The bulk of our money paid for the actual printing of the book.Now ..."
I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking that $1 was (in most cases) not sufficient, nor fair. E-books are a good chance to correct that, but it looks like more control must be taken from the big publishers first. I guess that's a key advantage of KDP and Smashwords etc..
The problems I have seen appear to be down to publishing companies trying to release electronic versions at or near the same price as a paper product. We can all see that they are not facing the printing and distribution costs, and frequently are not doing much marketing either - that was all part of the paper market. Releasing electronically at the same price as paper is clearly profiteering. On the other hand, electronic sales will cut into the sales figures for paper, so the situation is a little more complicated, and the margins on the paper product will need to go even higher . . . Even so, the prices should be significantly different. I strongly suspect that the 'same price' situation only occurs where the author has had no input into the pricing structure, the publisher has effectively taken control of the copyright. It seems to have happened quite a lot, particularly to some 'Big Names'.The other side of the coin is that authors can now easily go the independent route - but in doing so they must make a guess at what is a fair price, and take responsibility for their own marketing (and what a problem that can be, as I am finding out the hard way!).
Between those various factors the market is currently in a complete mess! Some authors are letting their work go much too cheap, others are putting their prices too high, most of them have no idea of how to market their work other than spamming. I have no recommendations at this point - my guess is that things will stabilise eventually, maybe another four or five years. In the mean time, self-publishing is a bit of a Nantucket sleigh ride, and you had better be in it for the glory rather than the dosh (though a few will get quite rich!) and the old-style publishing companies will continue to make a profit where they can - fairly and honourably or otherwise.
Generally, I'd say $5 is too high. At this point, you can get some at the secondhand bookstore in paperback form for the same price (if it's available, of course). Personally, I won't pay over $10 for an ebook.
I've looked through my Amazon order-history, and found that my two most expensive ebooks were prized at $10.34 and $8.04. Both of these books were the last book in series I've been reading, and I really wanted to complete these series.Other than that, all my ebooks have cost $5.79 or less, but the majority have been freebies.
So if it costs more than $6, it has to be something I really want if I'm to buy it.
For an author I already know I love, if the book is brand new, I might sometimes pay more than $10. For taking a chance on a new author, I'd prefer it be less than $10.
Coming late to this discussion, but... I hesitate to pay more than $5-6 for an ebook. My thinking is that the production cost is low, and that the author has a potentially very wide audience. An ebook should always be far cheaper than its hard copy counterpart. I am thinking here of Baen books. They charge in that price range for their ebooks, and they are drm free.
For an ebook from one of the big '6' - I'd pay 50%. They can afford the difference (gosh, I sound bitter!).For a self published author? I'd pay up to 75% - I mean a lot of self published books are AS GOOD as traditional ones, but people don't give them a chance by not even picking them up.
If a paperback standard price is £6.99 in the UK, I'd happily pay £5 for an ebook from a self published author.
In general anything under $9.99 I won't blink at. When they are $12.99 - $14.99 then I wait a bit.
Trying to do a mental check here, and the numbers are specific to eBooks.Unknown author, first book...$3.99 tops.
Known author...probably cap at $5.99, simply because it does start to add up quickly if you read a lot.
If it's an author I *really* like I could see myself going higher, but for a digital book I'd have qualms about going over $9.99 for anyone.
Alex - I like your pricing model - it seems to be a good one for both the reader (not too bit a hit on the wallet) and the writer (provides a good deal of income and appropriate levels).On a side note. I saw elsewhere a post about 25 anticipated releases for November (for fantasy/science fiction) and two of the ebooks were priced at $14.99. I thought this was too much.
Michael - yes, the trick (in economics terms) is finding that optimum intersection point between supply and demand. If the price is too low, authors won't earn enough to continue writing; if it's too high, readers won't (choose to) afford to pay the price. (They'll buy less expensive works from other writers, possibly getting 2 books for the price of one.)And agreed on $14.99 for ebooks being too much. At that point I'll scroll past and look for 2-3 less expensive books for the same total price.
@Alex and Michael - for the prices you've quoted, what would you expect for a word/page count?
For me as a reader, my primary concern is to maximize my enjoyment during the time I'm reading. Reading something by an author I don't know and finding I don't care for it - even after reading the blurb and sampling - isn't enjoyable, but I can at least temper that with the knowledge that I paid a lower price. If I'm reading a work by someone who has consistently provided an enjoyable reading experience for me, I'm not terribly concerned about book length or price (outside that $9.99 barrier). (Case in point: the Wool books are very short, probably average <100 pages each, but I had no qualms about paying whatever price needed for each because I knew I'd enjoy the experience.)My guess is that's a reasonably consistent thought process for a lot of readers. That's why you'll see newer authors (say, me) price their first work at a relatively low price (or even free), and then price subsequent works at higher prices as they establish a loyal fan base. More established authors (say, Michael) can likely price even new series or standalone works at higher prices and still sell well, because they've established a loyal fan base over time, who know they'll deliver something enjoyable.
My $0.02.
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It remains to be seen whether people will actually pay over $3 for an independe..."
Hi Martin,
I'm going to be an Indie author soon as well so I know what you mean. It hurts to think of devaluing something I've spent so much time and effort on. On the other hand, like you, I have to also weigh that against what people are willing to pay and the fact that the royalty rate for self-pubbing is higher than traditional publishing.