Terminalcoffee discussion
Rants / Debates (Serious)
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Should Someone With Clear Anti-Gay Views Be Allowed to Graduate From A Counseling Program and Become a Counselor?
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Wow. Seems like she chose the wrong profession...
It sounds like the student in question has been quite vocal in her views:The lawsuit says Ms. Keeton has stated in classroom discussions and written assignments that she believes sexual behavior "is the result of accountable personal choice," that people are born male or female, and that homosexuality is a lifestyle and not a "state of being."
I think that the university's concerns about her abilities to counsel the GLBTQ population are valid.
They want her to:
attend workshops on serving diverse populations, read articles on counseling gay, lesbian, and bisexual and transgendered people, and write reports to an adviser summarizing what she has learned. It also instructs her to work to increase her exposure to, and interaction with, gay populations, and suggests that she attend the local gay-pride parade. Ms. Keeton has refused to comply.
I suspect that Ms. Keeton has not been as respectful of the rights and freedoms of the GLBTQ as she herself wishes to be treated, and that the issue is not her Christianity, but her intolerance.
I think the best way for me to explain this to the student would be around performance. In other words, if one of the expected performances was working effectively with gblt students, and she was unwilling to do so, then she couldn't be certified.We run into something similar but not the same in our program. Some of our students do not want to go to clinicals in Milwaukee. Now, they won't come out and say, "I don't want to go into neighborhoods with tons of black kids". They'll say, "Oh, my uncle's best friend's mom is a cop, and she says it's dangerous there" or "I never want to work in Milwaukee so I don't want clinicals there." So I say, on the first day of orientation in the program, that our mission is to prepare people to teach in ALL settings, and if you don't want to go to clinicals in Milwaukee, the drop/add date hasn't passed and you're free to choose another program. I make that expectation as clear as humanly possible and pretty much dare somebody to come up with some bullshit excuse later. That said, we do have a few students who don't have cars, so I tell them we'll switch their clinicals around so they can do their city ones later.
If she harbors such intolerance towards gays, I bet she has plenty of other judgmental qualities which IMO renders her incapable of being a therapist at all, not just for gays.
She's shown intolerance towards gays and lesbians. How can the university expect her to temper her intolerance while offering counseling to students, especially those that are gay and lesbian?
I doubt she'll be able to temper such intolerance, and I agree she should not be given the opportunity to counsel. This is a thorny situation on both sides, and a gay/lesbian student being given negative counseling on their dissertation may cry foul because of Ms. Keeton's well-known anti-gay views.
I think it's best for both sides that she find employment elsewhere, or find a more suitable form of employment.
I doubt she'll be able to temper such intolerance, and I agree she should not be given the opportunity to counsel. This is a thorny situation on both sides, and a gay/lesbian student being given negative counseling on their dissertation may cry foul because of Ms. Keeton's well-known anti-gay views.
I think it's best for both sides that she find employment elsewhere, or find a more suitable form of employment.
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I work at my Father's counseling clinic, and have grown up around counselors, and I have to say that many, many, MANY of them should not be counselors because they have not sufficiently dealt with their own sh*t. The good ones have, and are open to working with just about anyone (depending on the severity of the case & specialization of counselor) with an open mind and attitude. The bad ones just want to spread their own strange ideas, beliefs and emotional baggage around and label it as authority so they can tell other people what to believe and do with their lives. A true counselor's goal is to HELP people grow, but too many just want the POWER TRIP of making others follow their own brand of sheeple-ism.
(I secretly believe that they actually doubt themselves so much that they have to convince others of their beliefs so they'll feel better about themselves.)
That is really sad. I am always in awe of counsellors & social workers, I have a few friends who work in the area, they are wonderful people. You would think to work in counselling it would almost need to be a calling rather than a profession -- in an ideal world.
Yes, in an ideal world. And like every other profession there are the good ones and the bad. I think because of being around it so much I've seen plenty of both, but the bad was enough to turn me from that career path. For the good ones, like my Dad, it truly is a calling and they are incredible people.
The university was absolutely right. I can't tell you how helpful a counselor was to me when I was younger. I can't even imagine how devastated I would have been if I had opened up to a counselor and heard I was a sinner who needed ex-gay therapy or whatever.There are so many LGBTQ kids who commit suicide each year. Gay and trans kids are often really vulnerable, and counselors are sometimes the only people in their lives who offer support and hope, who have a real chance to reach these kids and literally save lives. I hold someone who wants to enter the counseling profession from a starting point of homophobia (and even more, of transphobia) in nothing but contempt. B*tch, go work as a church organist and don't even try to think about "helping" people with their "gay problem".
Gus posted a link to this, so I'm stealing the story from him...Apparently Elizabeth Hassleback from The View has, uh, some interesting theories about lesbians...
http://news.nationalpost.com/2010/07/...
Rarely am I speechless. I am now.
Her husband is a commentator on ESPN. I wonder if his colleagues are, like, "So...Tim...say your wife on tv this morning..."
From what media outlet, KD? Tell me more on this. I disagree with you based on the mission of the professional program. She could go through another program, i suppose, one from a Christian college, but I wonder if that program could be certified. This doesn't have anything to do with where or with whom she wants to work post certification; it has to do with the program saying part of their mission and promise for the people they certify is that they will be prepared to counsel LBGT clients.
This is a tough scenario for the university, because dispositions/free speech come into play, etc., but I'm going to say "no, she shouldn't" because the mission/spirit of the program is to serve all clients/students, not just pick and choose amongst them. It would be the equivalent of someone coming into a teacher education program and saying "I don't want to work with (insert population here) students." Well, f--k you. Go somewhere else then. We're graduating you to be able to teach all students. It's part of our mission.
Measuring and documenting "dispositions" can be tough, though, as most people aren't as transparent as this woman.
What do you think?