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Wars of Light & Shadow--Curse of the Mistwraith, Ch I, II, III - SPOILERS!
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Shel wrote: "Okay, so I just finished the Exile set and could finally read through this spoiler thread. Lots to think about, as many of you have posted already. I'm definitely wondering about some of the thin..."Shel - Worldsend Gate and World's End Gate - both were deliberate. There is very little slop - grin - expect precision language throughout.
The origins of the feud were much more than that - read the Splinter Worlds thread, that bit of back history is detailed there. I have more notes on the makeup of the world (it's not immediately applicable to the story in Mistwraith, but somewhat pertinent later on) - I have to wait to post those notes because alot of the history is tied into events and the makeup of Athera - when you get there, this discussion point can flower further.
Neat to see you having a good time.
Shel wrote: "Richard wrote: "Shel, sorry for the informality of 'you lot', where are my manners. "LOL! I prefer informality, actually :)"
That is two of us prefer informality - long live 'you lot' - the stuffed shirts can eat it. ;)
Jon wrote: "Did anyone note that high mage's threat/curse upon the King of Amroth in the Tracer subchapter? It made me wonder if he might have set the stage or seeds for the Curse to take root in Arithon and ..."What do you think? In what way?
Janny wrote: "What do you think? In what way?"I see potential for trouble brewing. I don't know where the high mage falls in the level of sorcery as compared to a Fellowship Sorcerer, nor is he constrained by the Major Balance (since he's removed at least one world away from the Paravian world).
In re-reading this section, I read this section with fresh eyes and completely missed the high mage's outburst the first time through.
The first time I read this (sad to say, with not the best memory of the story), I do recall that the Prologue was not what stood out for me as an indicator of the complexity of the story to follow. It should have, but did not. What did was the final paragraph of the Interlude when Asandir says to Drakar, "the results of prophesies often resolve through strangely twisted circumstances."And, re-reading the story, it is still the point where I really appreciate what is to come. I think it is because by around 50 pages so many people and things have been explained, hinted at, and introduced. And, immediately following the paragraph and enchantress makes her presence known to the reader. Surprisingly enough, it is not overwhelming. It does set the pace of reading and the degree of attention one must be willing to give.
Janny wrote: "...Stuff like Davien's inscription on The Five Centuries' Fountain - and What It Was Built For - and why the Shadows of Mearth are what they are - this was not gratuitous creation 'just to give the characters longevity' - oh no! If I were to unveil all that little fragment intersects - grin. Those items were 'created' in - get this - 1973! That is how foundational these concepts are...although the why's behind them will not emerge one instant beforetime...."
That inscription is so interesting. I certainly would not want to have to drink from that well! 500 years, but full of grief is not my idea of fair trade. Of course, the boys did not see the inscription until after the fact. And, in the shape they were in, would it have mattered? Dead was likely the only other choice.
Cannot wait to find out why Davien created the fountain. Maybe he had a twisted sense of humor... I am thinking there is more to the reasoning.
...why do you think just about EVERYBODY reads the worst into this line?Speaking just for me, I always think of the worst because that way I'm not surprised if/when it occurs. But you raise a very good point - the prologue can be interpreted in a number of ways... I'm just not good with fluid boundaries. Something to work on I guess as I progress through the book :)
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Shel wrote: "I'm wondering what is the significance of the actual length of time. I don't have the book in front of me at the moment, but if I'm remembering correctly, it was 500 years ago that the Mistwraith ..."That's an interesting thought, I hadn't made that connection.
Shel wrote: "I'm wondering what is the significance of the actual length of time. I don't have the book in front of me at the moment, but if I'm remembering correctly, it was 500 years ago that the Mistwraith ..."It says in the Interlude "Ocean world Dascen Elur/ Left unwatched for five score years..." A score is 20 years, so that would be 100 years unwatched.
Considering the significance of lengths of time and the 500 years twice, I had noticed that two.The other thing it leads me to wonder - has anyone picked this up? - is how long is an Age on Athera? Is it a set length of time or does it simply relate to how long a particular set of circumstances lasts?
Any knowledge or speculation?
And Mawgojzeta's comment on left unwatched for 100 years. Does that mean the Fellowship (or someone) was watching Dascen Elur before that? What did they stop? Is that 100 years significant as well?
Knowing Janny, it's probably all significant.
Kerry wrote: "Considering the significance of lengths of time and the 500 years twice, I had noticed that two.The other thing it leads me to wonder - has anyone picked this up? - is how long is an Age on Ath..."
I would think an age isn't a set length, but rather a set of events grouped together and defined as an age. But I'm only basing this on what "age" has meant in other books I've read.
And yeah, knowing Janny, I'm sure that statement (unwatched for 100 years) is definitely significant. I can't wait to find out how! I'm going to go read right now... lol :-)
I asked that question about how long is an Age a while back and don't think I ever got an answer.
Jon wrote: "Did anyone note that high mage's threat/curse upon the King of Amroth in the Tracer subchapter? It made me wonder if he might have set the stage or seeds for the Curse to take root in Arithon and ..."Being a simple soul I saw the curse be carried out by the banishment of Lysaer along with Arithon through the Worldsend Gate. The end.
But I can now see that the curse could have far reaching consequences dogging the brothers on Athera.
We'll have to wait and see I guess.
Richard wrote: "Jon wrote: "Did anyone note that high mage's threat/curse upon the King of Amroth in the Tracer subchapter? It made me wonder if he might have set the stage or seeds for the Curse to take root in ..."I had the same thought as you, the curse was that whatever punishment befell Arithon, the high mage (I'm forgetting his name) would make sure the same happened to Lysaer. Arithon was banished, and so was Lysaer. At that point it was beyond the high mages realm of influence. I guess I can see how it might be more significant than that now that you mention it, but at the time I hadn't even considered that.
Mawgojzeta wrote: "Shel wrote: "I'm wondering what is the significance of the actual length of time. I don't have the book in front of me at the moment, but if I'm remembering correctly, it was 500 years ago that th..."I'm a bit confused with the whole time thing now. As I'm feeling somewhat lazy at the moment, rather than reread the first chapter set again, can somebody set me straight on these questions.
When did the Mistwraith curse Athera? (I thought 500yrs ago)
When did the royal exiles arrive on Dascen Elur? (I thought 500yrs minus a bit)
How old are the main Atherian characters, did they drink from the Well 500yrs ago, are they about to die of old age at any moment now?
Good point about Dascen Elur being unwatched for 100yrs, getting me thinking again.
Richard wrote: "Good point about Dascen Elur being unwatched for 100yrs, getting me thinking again."Yeah, I keep wondering what that is all about. Eventually (in one of the books) I am sure this will be answered.
Sandra AKA Sleo wrote: "I asked that question about how long is an Age a while back and don't think I ever got an answer."The question I think I asked: Which Age? From which Era?
Dawn is correct - an age is not a set length, it denotes a shift and a change, to the next shift and change.
Richard wrote: "Mawgojzeta wrote: "Shel wrote: "I'm wondering what is the significance of the actual length of time. I don't have the book in front of me at the moment, but if I'm remembering correctly, it was 50..."The Mistwraith arrived on Athera in Third Age Year 4993
The Royal Exiles arrived on Dascen Elur - (500 years ago is not correct) - no clear cut single date, though by Third Age Year 5129, the last of them crossed the Worldsend Gate to Dascen Elur.
Except for Lysaer and Arithon, the main Atheran characters in this story did not drink from Davien's Five Centuries' Fountain, which was constructed in Third Age Year 3140.
Dakar was born in Third Age Year 5056.
The Fellowship of Seven are far older; they arrived on Athera in Second Age Year One. The Second Age extended for 13,051 years.
The Koriathain arrived on Athera in Third Age Year One. Individual ages for them vary; where they are relevant, some are stated in the story.
The reasons for extended lifespans differ - you will see specifics unveiled in due time.
These dates may lend some food for thought. :)
Janny wrote: "Richard wrote: "Mawgojzeta wrote: "Shel wrote: "I'm wondering what is the significance of the actual length of time. I don't have the book in front of me at the moment, but if I'm remembering corr..."When you say the Fellowship of Seven and Koriathain "arrived on" Athera, is that an intentional hint that they weren't born/formed there/then, but came from elsewhere? Or am I just reading too much into that?
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Stefan wrote: "Dawn, you're on the right track, and this will all be the explained later on. I have to say that that explanation is the point where my mind was truly blown."Somehow I knew the answer would be that it would be explained later on :-)
Thanks Janny, that's just what I needed.Now for the dumbest question, errr what year is it now?
Have I missed it, or are we meant to be in ignorance and tie the chronology together over time.
So far I've got that the Fellowship have been around (on Athera) for at least 18,000 yrs, the Koriathain for over 5000 yrs. The Well was created over 850 yrs before the Mistwraith arrived and Dakar was born over 50 yrs later, who was in his 70's when the last of the Royal Exiles left.
The Blood feud has been going on for, what over 7 generations, so lets say 200 yrs, and Dascen Elur has been 'unwatched' for 100 yrs.
Is the current date circa 5400 Third Age?
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Richard - Janny will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the story starts in Atheran Third Age year 5637 (once they get to Athera, obviously - I'm not sure if Dascen Elur is on a different calendar or not).
One of the later books in the series has a time line, including dates, for the entire series. This can also be found on Janny's site, broken down by book, but I wouldn't look at the time line for each book until you've finished that entire novel, as it obviously contains spoilers up to the end of that book.
Stefan wrote: "Dawn - I'd be happy to tell you in a private message, but it's probably best if we wait until Janny sets up a spoiler thread for the entire series. It's more fun to discover everything by yourself..."No no, I don't want to find out before it's time. I was just making a joke, since it seems like that's always the answer. In a good way! Nothing is left out, it's a very well put together series.
Stefan wrote: "Richard - Janny will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the story starts in Atheran Third Age year 5637..."Thanks Stefan, I was nearly right. What's 2 or 3 hundred years between friends.
Observations and questions to ponder from my notes on Chapter III (http://www.goodreads.com/user_status/...) [All page references relevant to this edition of [book:The Curse of the Mistwraith|28660]]p. 79 What does baked flint smell like?
p. 86 Arithon cries for mercy 'How could I twist the deep mysteries? Was I wrong to fabricate wholesale murder for the sake of one life?' What are the 'deep mysteries'?
From Transgression subchapter:
p. 92 The second lane one of the twelve channels of magnetic force which arrayed Athera's world.
Array like a numbered list (programming reference) or a matrix (mathematical reference)? http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/a... or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Array
From 'Curse of Mearth' subchapter:
p. 95 Arithon recites history of Mearth: Inhabitants were gem cutters. The fall of a sorcerer is blamed for the curse that destroyed them.
Was the fallen sorcerer Davien? or one of the other FoS? or a completely different sorcerer unknown or irrelevant at this time?
Jon wrote: "Observations and questions to ponder from my notes on Chapter III (http://www.goodreads.com/user_status/...) [All page references relevant to this edition of [book:The Curse of the Mistwra..."Jon - as usual you find very fun points to look at.
Baked flint: ever climbed a mountain in a desert? The smell of the heated rock under full noon sun is quite distinctive. You could check it out, yourself, at home: take a piece of flint, put it out in full summer sun until it gets HOT, and breathe in the scent of it....
The deep mysteries: the energetic makeup of the living world (animate and what we on earth call inanimate matter, and everything else). Not just the four 'forces' that make up our knowledge of physics, but all solid form can be broken down into the same four catagories of energy. More, that makeup of energy has a distinct frequency and signature: all compounds are distinct on the electromagnetic spectrum; that is part of your answer. This is only 'half' of the answer - watch the story to develop the rest.
Twelve magnetic Lanes - arrayed, yes, and the definition you found that relates to MATRIX would be the correct one.
These 'lanes' CIRCLE the world - so think of twelve hoops, intersecting the poles - if you drew Athera as a Mercator projection, you'd have 24 lines running roughly longitudinally...though they are circular, and not ruled straight, but deflect slightly depending on the topographic features, (much like a river might) which determine where the current flows with least resistance. You'd seen this in action in later volumes.
Davien's fall and the release of Mearth's curse: good spotting, yes.
I finally finished this first part. I knew I was going to be behind with this discussion even with the slower pace, but I’m finding it a little more slow going than I expected. I am really enjoying it so far and will hopefully be able to get a bit more caught up. Some things that stood out to me here, the Prologue, more specifically, my totally missing it when I first started to read. When I began reading the comments here, I went back to reread it & thought to myself, did I even read this in the first place. If I had actually paid more attention to the prologue, I would have had a very different experience of reading those first chapters I think. Then there was the 500 years fountain. I felt that part happened too quickly. I thought there would have been much more of a reaction from Arithon & Lysaer after finding out what it was and a bit more of an explanation of it there. I’m sure it will come up again later on down the line. Then there is the character of Lysaer, he was really starting to annoy me. I agree with what Shel said up in post 46 about his flip flopping character and having no sympathy for him once they hit the desert. I'm looking forward to seeing how he, as well as Arithon and their relationship, develops throughout the rest of the story.
Staci wrote: "I finally finished this first part. I knew I was going to be behind with this discussion even with the slower pace, but I’m finding it a little more slow going than I expected. I am really enjoying..."Staci - don't worry, you have plenty of time to take this at your own pace. In fact, I'd also encourage anyone to start in at any time - I will be here for the duration.
Interesting to note how easily that little bit in the prologue gets written off...
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Books mentioned in this topic
Seabiscuit: An American Legend (other topics)Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee: An Indian History of the American West (other topics)
The Curse of the Mistwraith (other topics)
Authors mentioned in this topic
Dee Brown (other topics)John Prebble (other topics)
I hadn't thought about that. There's all sorts of potential for future complications with that, isn't there?