The Historian
discussion
There's No Worse Thief than a Bad Book
mia culpa...speaking of counselors, I was on my way to mine when I wrote that...I am truly sorry for my post and I'm embarrassed. Please forgive my snottiness.
The Historian - I've started reading this book twice now and just recently saw it on the shelf and considered picking it up again. Why do I feel obligated to finish a book once I start it? I'm somewhat intrigued now after reading the extreme opposite opinions posted here.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think some females (myself included) are socialized to finish what we start. I have a very difficult time not finishing a book when I start it...like it's a waste to have read for a few hours and then quit. When in reality, if you hate the book, it's kind of a waste to spend even more time on it if it's not working out for you. (Just my humble opinion.)
I just finished The Historian and I really enjoyed it! I guess I am in the minority here - I thought it was an interesting weaving of history/fiction/time and adventure. Of course, I loved "An Instance of the Fingerpost" by Ian Pears and I love Umberto Eco and Tom Robbins.So, if you are reading "The Historian" don't give up because someone else criticizes it - decide for yourself. We aren't all Star Trek or Grateful Dead fans - either!!
I really think Umberto Eco would be sick at heart to hear his work compared to this drivel. Tom Robbins, on the other hand, ought to feel proud!What good is Goodreads if it's not a place to encourage others to read good books? And, if necessary, help make the time to read good books by encouraging them to not bother reading authentically crappy ones?
In my earlier post, I didn't mention that I liked this book.(oops, I guess I did !) Yes, it put me to sleep at times (which can be a really good thing). I never would have picked it up except some one had written that it did a great job of intertwining vampires (which seem to be so popular now), history and geography. Again, if you don't like it, give it up or try it again later!
i always rate vampire books on how well they create a metaphor. early works were often metaphors for queer sexuality (lesbian in particular). the historian read as the authors love/obsession for her profession does not fail and i found it to be quite moving.
Hi Chuckell -I did post about a book I thought was good. I think you are posting negative comments. I really disagree that this is "authentically crappy". I don't think this is the place to be so negative. Like I said, people all have different tastes - thank God. How boring life would be if we only had Blues and not Jazz or Classical and not Rock. No need to cast aspersions. I was merely stating some other authors I enjoyed. Jeez - if I wanted personal attacks I would have posted on MySpace!
Amen to Amy. You don't like Tom Robbins? Don't read him. I enjoy his funky views and truly educated view of religion. Don't speak for him, whether he would be proud, or Mr. Eco sick at heart...YOUR OPINION. I think tv football is crappy, but I don't tell my husband and sons that...I leave the room.
I was one of the ones who actually liked The Historian-- yes, there were aspects that I would have changed, but overall I got a real history lesson for some countries I haven't paid much attention to since World History in college... so I didn't think it was "crappy." When I read a book, I try to stick it out 'til the end... and even when I wished I hadn't, I usually learn something new. (Not always, I admit to writing an occasional "nasty" book review and love that GR lets us share our reviews with people who actually read enough to appreciate your opinions).
I love reading everyone's book reviews-- the good, the bad and the ugly-- I just wish people wouldn't personalize their disagreements.
The Historian was definitely the worst book that I've read in a long time. Dull, dragged out writing, non-existent characterization, and more, but I've ranted about it enough (feel free to check out my review, all my pain is there.)It's been a long time since I've read a truly bad book (besides the unmentionable, above), but I started thinking about books I was assigned to read in high school. Oh, there were several I hated -- the two that spring to mind are A Separate Peace and Wuthering Heights. Both seem to rob my soul with their dreariness and self-involvement.
Anyone else remember hating some of their school books?
Ha! I loved a Separate Peace and have read it since I was in school and still like it. Although I have to admit that I can totally see why someone would describe it as self-involved.I DESPISED Clarissa back in college. As far as high school goes, I remembed having to read The Pearl and completely not getting it. 'Course I was a 9th grade snot-nose living in a dinky town in southern Michigan and I think not capable of imagining an experience that different from mine. I'd like to think if I read it again, I'd find value in it. I love Steinbeck. Of course, whenever I see it on a shelf, I shudder and turn away.
A Separate Peace was self-involved...has anyone met a teenager who wasn't?When I was a sophomore in high school (circa 1968), the boys in class were to read Moby Dick and the girls A Scarlet Letter. Shocking to people living in 2008? It made me so angry even then. AND A Scarlet Letter turned out to be the most longwinded piece of literature I have ever encountered. It could be just because of the circomstances...you think?
Having read both Moby Dick (hated it) and Scarlet Letter (okay, I get the problem with just giving it to the girls), I have to admit I'd pick Scarlet Letter every time... anyone else hate that bloated white whale of a book?
fascinating that the same person hated separate peace, i too hated it and wuthering heights, i LOVED. heathcliff is brooding and unpredictable and anything but boring. the main character in a separate peace whose name i block on was BORING.about moby dick...i read ahab's wife first and that is fantastic and then i felt i had to read moby dick. that time i got through it and had a 3 star experience.i could use a great book thats also funny. anyone have a suggestion? thanks
I really enjoyed The Historian. True, the middle seemed a bit slow with the letters coinciding with the daughter's own journey, but overall I liked the story.
Anything by Tom Robbins or John Irving...John Irving being the more mainstream...Try a Prayer for Owen Meany (Irving) first.
I am amazed that people can start a book and not finish it. I have come across books I really don't care for, but still finish. Two reasons for this. First, every once in awhile, there is a great book with a slow beginning.
Second, the whole purpose of reading to me is entertainment (and I had better add education in here). Reading should make you happy or sad or frustrated or bored or whatever, all feelings should be experienced. That is the greatness of reading.
I haven't read The Historian yet, but it is on my to read list. I also don't believe I have ever hated a book, even when that Horrible Mean 9th Grade English teacher made us read that incredibly thick russian classic. :)
I had to literally 'give myself permission' to not finish a book. I guess being a dutiful student and then a teacher, I was programed to finish. Not anymore! To be trite...too many books; too little time.
I hated The Da Vinci Code, loved The Virgin Suicides, and am eager to read The Historian...maybe I'm just weird.
I finished The Historian, mostly because I kept thinking it would get better. It was OK, but could have been shorter. One book that I really hated was "Angela's Ashes". I could not finish that book, it made me so angry I wanted to punch the characters.
I kinda have to stick up for The Historian as well. Although, I do agree I felt like I HAD to finish it, but became frustrated along the way at times...overall, I still add it as one of my favorite books.....lower on my list of course, but still on the list. haha
Jenny wrote: "I kinda have to stick up for The Historian as well. Although, I do agree I felt like I HAD to finish it, but became frustrated along the way at times...overall, I still add it as one of my favorite..."I really liked the Historian. Her writing was great, the pacing was on the slow side but I thought the story made up for that. This is one of my favourite books and it was nice to read a well written adult vampire book. Can only tolerate so much Teenage whining. There has been no other good vampire books out there since Anne Rice.
Will be reading Kostova new book Swan Thieves in the near future.
I really enjoyed The Historian. I found it clever and engaging. Books that I have hated: 1) The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, 2) The Particular Sadness of Lemon Cake, 3)Mother of Pearl.
Why read a book you HATE? I mean unless you are one of my students and it is a requirement for my English class. I require my kids to read something outside of the required texts for class, but I also tell them NOT to read something they are not enjoying.I feel sorry for anyone who spends the energy reading a novel that is sucking the life out of them. There are so many great books written in so many styles fitting into a multitude of genres... stop spending your time doing something - by choice - that you are not enjoying!!
Sam wrote: "Why read a book you HATE?" ... stop spending your time doing something - by choice - that you are not enjoying!!I heard once, take 100 and subtract your age. That's the number of pages you should give a book before you decide it's a total loss. If you're over 80, the rule doesn't apply and you're allowed to toss the book after a paragraph if you like.
I usually try to stick with that. If I hate the book 70 or 80 pages in, chances are I'll continue to hate it. And as my "to read" list here is 500+ books, I can afford to put one down.
Little wrote: "I heard once, subtract your age from 100, and that's the number of pages to give a book you don't enjoy before you give up on it forever. Makes sense to me. There are too many good reads out ther..."Hmmm I actually like this theory and think I will put it to use. I havent come across too many books that I couldnt get through but the Historian was one of them. I read somewhere (who knows where now because it was a few years back) that if you can make it to page 70 of the historian that the confusion should settle out and things should start making sense but I could only make it to page 68. I put it back on my shelf thinking I may muster up the patience to give it another try but alas a few years later the book has been sat on the shelf without even getting another glance.
Another one that I found impossible to read was Eat, Pray, Love - what hogwash!!!
The Historian was one of the worst books that I have read. The ending ruined the whole book. Dracula lives for thousands of years and then dies because he is slightly distracted for a moment? Come on - did anyone believe this ending? I had to read this for my book club and felt like my time was wasted, especially since this book was so long.
I loved The Historian. I started reading it with no expectations. I actually zipped through it pretty quickly. I love history though and reading about other countries.I did not enjoy The Confederancy of Dunces. Several people have raved about it, but I can't figure out why.
Two other books that I could not make it through were Running with Scissors and On The Road.
One more - Catcher in the Rye was a big disappointment.
Wow I loved this book - I guess if you're not into history you wouldn't be able to appreciate it.
I agree that The Historian was dreadful. I kept waiting for it to improve, but it never did. I also hated The Virgin Suicides. I had read Middlesex first and still consider it one of the best books I have ever read. I thought it was strange that I could feel so differently about two books by the same author.
Adrienne wrote: "Wow I loved this book - I guess if you're not into history you wouldn't be able to appreciate it."I'm into history, but I hated this book.
Can't imagine how anyone could say they hate this book. Maybe the number of pages was too many for some people who like to "skip" read, and when you read a good book like that, it's really hard to appreciate. 4 stars!
I also loved this book! I loved the history, I loved the discriptions of the European locations and I've always been intrigued by vampires (so I loved that too). It was a great story.
I read this book a while back and really enjoyed it!I thought the discriptions and location settings in the book were really descriptive and really set the scene for me. I wouldn't go as far as to say I would read it again but it was a read.
i didn't love the book, but didn't hate it either - it was ok...and I didn't "skip read it" either - I read the whole thing - it was the only book I took with me on a deployment when we had limited luggage
i loved this book. i guess because i love traveling and i love a good book that allows me to travel in a sense. i finished reading it right away that i was sad when i came to the ending. i read a lot of different books from different genre. i am not too particular about grammar. all i know, is that a book is a good read depending on the feeling or impression it leaves.
"My name is Kimberlibri and I'm a book hoarder." I admit it with no shame. I am constantly on the look out for new and interesting reads but I will pretty much pick up and read anything put in front of me. It stays in my "hoard" of books and I will re-read it one, three, five or ten years later. Some books in my collection have been read 10x plus. I own the Historian. I've read it once. All the way through. Right after it was published. I just can't bring myself to give it another go. Enough said?
Little wrote: "I heard once, subtract your age from 100, and that's the number of pages to give a book you don't enjoy before you give up on it forever. Makes sense to me. There are too many good reads out ther..."You have no idea how happy I was to read your comment! A friend of mine kept raving on and on about what a great book 'The Magic Mountain' was. I struggled through maybe 250 pages before giving up. I hated the protagonist and all the characters.
I also tried and gave up on 'Gravity's Rainbow'. Read maybe 200 pages and couldn't make heads or tails of that book. I think it was about the Blitz in London during WWII but I honestly don't know.
Little wrote: "I heard once, subtract your age from 100, and that's the number of pages to give a book you don't enjoy before you give up on it forever. Makes sense to me. There are too many good reads out ther..."I think this may be my new rule. I just wasted God knows how long reading The American Book of the Dead cause I don't like leaving books unfinished, but maybe it's time I stopped wasting my time on crappy books.
that seems to be my standard rule, unless I am advised prior that a book is dull up to a certain point and then changes - like The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo...I was told the first 100 or so pages were rough, so I knew what to expect, but then it got really good
Jackie wrote: "Oh no, I just started The Historian and now I'm nervous...The one book I remember HATING was The Virgin Suicides. And I can't even remember why (I read it a few years ago), but I hated it so muc..."
Oh, there are reasons to dislike Virgin Suicides, I suppose, but don't let it put you off of Eugenides's other work. He has some really, really amazing books.
I would say a prominent reason to dislike the book would come from the perspective of the story--these boys who worshiped the girls pretty much to the point of completely objectifying them. You don't get an inside view of the reasoning for the suicides or any motivation on the part of the seemingly insane parenting choices of their mother and father, so the story can be really, really frustrating.
But Middlesex is absolutely breathtaking. It must be read. Splendidly written, amazing characters...oh, you must not miss it just because of Virgin Suicides. Don't do yourself the disservice!
Claudia wrote: "I have to stick up for the Historian - I LOVED the way I learned so much about the history of the Ottoman Empire, and (what's now known as) Hungary and Romania. I am a hopeless history nerd, and I ..."But the whole book takes place in a LIBRARY! It's so boring--she could have revealed the action so much more intelligently. Frustrated the crap out of me!
I enjoyed the Historian. It was flawed, and I had I gone in expecting to read a vampire book I would have been disappointed, but since I went in expecting a book about two people wandering around Eastern Europe I enjoyed it.I wasn't as fond of Kostova's second book though. The Swan Thieves was so poorly paced that I barely made it through the book, and by the time I finished it I didn't care. I liked the idea, but the story telling style didn't work and there was absolutely no progress made with the plot until the end of Mary's story telling,494 pages into the book.
You need medication...now!
Ive read both The Historian and The Swan Thieves. i enjoyed both books and got through them both quite quickly the only thing i would say is that they are a bit of a anti-climax i want more of a conclusion something that keeps you thinking for a long time after you have finished
I agree with you Wendy. I loved the Historian and liked the Swan Thieves, but the endings were a bit rushed feeling. Whereas, I think about scenes from the middle of the books I have a hard time recalling how they ended specifically. I have a vague recollection of each ending.
I can't quite agree with you all on "The Historian". I recognize all of its faults but I somehow found it extremely enjoyable, although the plot felt a bit silly towards the end. But I hated, loathed "The Swan Thieves". It had all the faults "The Historian" had and worse. The plot was awful, the characters were questionable and it confirmed my suspicions that Elizabeth Kostova doesn't know that such a thing as "reported speech" exists. How many of us, while retelling a story, say "- I don't believe you - said William"? It's something that itched me in "The Historian" but in "The Swan Thieves" it's even worse. "The Swan Thieves" is the hated book I pick for this thread, too. It was just a waste of time. Sarah Waters' "The Little Stranger" felt weird too and it was hard to finish it but at least she has some writing skills...
Coco wrote: "I realize hate is a strong word, but I HATED A Confederacy of Dunces. Not a single character did l like and the whole time I kept hoping that Ignatius would get hit by a bus or die some other pain..."I agree totally!
My guess is that the person with the Master's in Reading actually has a Master's in Reading Education. Books are like ice cream --there are lots of different flavors. What you like, I might like or not like. What I liked today, might not be as tasty tomorrow. (My masters is in counseling--so please don't rip my grammar!)