A Song of Ice and Fire

[[deleted user]]

Lol...I remember when I bought The World of Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time. I felt so lame! I vote you pick up Ulysses to even things out ;)

[mark]

i allow myself approximately 1 dorky, seriously seriously dorky, buy per year. usually something along the lines of fantasy paintings etc. of course, i am now 40, and so that means i have a ton of them. then i forget that i own them until someone comes over and pulls one of them out my bookcase with a comment like "Mark....really?"

here are some other major dork-buys of the past:

[Kevin]

mark wrote: "i just got The Art of George R. R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire.

it sure is great. but i felt incredibly dorky buying it. almost felt like i should have bought something by nabakov or james j..."

If you think that is dorky, I saw a bunch of people bring that to a signing he did back in 2006. Also to connect with you inner dorkness, George said that he is cowriting with Elio M. García, Jr. and Linda Antonsson (who runs the largest Song of Ice Fire online community), The World of Ice and Fire, a companion volume even more detail and bigger than The Art of on the Song of Ice and Fire's Wikipedia's page.

[mark]

i can't wait to shamefully buy it! yeah!

[Dave]

I like showing my dorkness from time to time as well :)

[Maggie]

So, over on the TOR site, they announced this morning that they are starting a read of A Song of Ice and Fire. Leigh Butler, who does the WOT reread is going to be the poster, and she has NOT read it yet, so it will be a read, not a reread. I am annoyed because she is cutting down her WOT schedule to do it, and it is not like the series is ever going to be finished, but most people seem happy about it...lol

[Kevin]

Thanks for the update, Maggie! I totally missed it because it had no cool pics by the article on the front page. I was shocked that she has never read SOIAF before, its really going to be a treat for her and more work by doing this and WOT at the same time.

[mark]

what is WOT?

[Maggie]

Wheel of Time (the Robert Jordan series)

[Katie]

Is A Dance with Dragons the final book? I saw it was coming out this summer so I'm reevaluating my stance on not reading A Game of Thrones. Someone help me out here - now that he's publishing this book should I go ahead and start the series?

[Maggie]

no, there are two more left after this one

[Kevin]

hey at least he has stared parts of the next book

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*, *good karma*]

Only 14-25 years left to go! ;)

[[deleted user]]

Lol...14 to 25 years? As if. Given his blog I'd say a massive fatal heart attack in the next three years to be followed by Brandon Sanderson picking up and completing the series within three years time.

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*, *good karma*]

Brandon Sanderson - savior of all overly long fantasy book series everywhere!

[mark]

Long Price Quartet! i've been wanting to read that one for a while, we should add the first of the series to the next epic fantasy vote.

[Jason]

I also hope GRRM lives long enough to finish the series, and other things. I wish he were twenty years younger, but I'm sure he does too...lol

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*, *good karma*]

Jason wrote: "I also hope GRRM lives long enough to finish the series, and other things. I wish he were twenty years younger, but I'm sure he does too...lol"

I think we all wish we were 20 years younger. :-)

[Jenni]

I don't think GRRM is in imminent danger of heart failure, and one can hope that he's quicker on the next leg. Maybe he's over the hump.

[Maggie]

I have to applaud all the hopeful optimism...,maybe I am too jaded

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*, *good karma*]

Maggie wrote: "I have to applaud all the hopeful optimism...,maybe I am too jaded"

lol, I know the feeling.

[Chris]

Daniel Abraham has a friendship and a working relationship with GRRM too, so he'd probably be a logical choice. Abraham is one of the new generation of Wild Cards authors, and has been tagged as the adaptor for the upcoming ASOIAF comic series.

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*, *good karma*]

What ever happened to authors like Andre Norton who did a lot of stand alones in the same "general series?"

[Christine]

I never once had anyone recommend these books to me. I hope it's not a mistake that I'm starting them now. Lol

[Jason]

Not a mistake, Christine. The series isn't finished yet and the HBO series has just begun. This is, perhaps, the best time to get into it, and if you find yourself loving it as much as I do then I envy your first reading of it!

[James]

The first 3 books of this series are great! The fourth is very mediocre, and it's hell waiting so long for the next book to come out.

[Jason]

@ James. In case you didn't know, the fifth book, A Dance with Dragons, is supposed to be out this July. Judging from Martin's Blogs, this time it isn't far fetched. :)

[whimsicalmeerkat]

Having preorders with dates attached is also reassuring

[Jason]

Indeed! LOL

[[deleted user]]

Ha the same book had a preorder with a date attached....4 years ago :)

[James]

Jason wrote: "@ James. In case you didn't know, the fifth book, A Dance with Dragons, is supposed to be out this July. Judging from Martin's Blogs, this time it isn't far fetched. :)"

True but I refuse to believe any date until I see the actual book on the shelves. Been burned too many times.

[Jason]

We shall see what happens. I think it's true this time, but I'm also ready to eat my words if I'm wrong, too. LOL

[whimsicalmeerkat]

Reassuring does not mean it will definitely happen, of course.

[Jason]

Jackie, did you follow me?

I felt bad for Cersei too, during that marraige, but it's not like Robert was alone in the cheating and abusing.

[Dawn]

Ohhh, here it is. Sweet. I don't mean to be all up tight about spoilers, I just love this series so much. Every little revelation is important, I'd hate to give anything away before it's time! :)

[Jason]

No problems at all, Dawn. :) I don't think Jackie followed me, though. LOL

I agree with you on the whole spoiler thing.

[Jackie]

I'm here. You missed me, Jason?

Even if Robert was good to Cersei, she still would have kept her ongoing affair with Jaime. She said it started early, I'm thinking the teenage years. ??
Robert didn't want to marry her, and he made it clear. But he could have been discreet, he was so blatant about his affairs.

As a woman, I find arranged marriages particularly frightening.

[Jason]

Actually, I find that arranged marriages scary, too. Probably for different reasons. LOL

Cersai had to keep her affair with Jaime a secret, especially after her marriage to Robert. (view spoiler)[If Robert learned that his kids were actually Jaime's, they'd all be a head shorter. LOL (hide spoiler)]

Also, I don't think Robert could have been discreet about anything. Makes me wonder (view spoiler)[what Renly would have been like had he lived (hide spoiler)]

[Jackie]

The whole Seven Kingdoms looked down on incest after the Targaryens, she'd have had to keep it secret no matter who she married or even if she never married. But, yeah, Robert would have killed them both.

I think Renly's resemblance to Robert was in looks, not in temperament. And especially in the way Renly is being portrayed in the TV series. But even in the books, he was referred to looking like a young Robert but I don't recall anyone ever saying he acted like Robert.

[Jason]

Yeah, your right, Renly was much more reserved in personality.

I thought, though, that the incest thing was always looked down upon in the seven kingdoms except by the Targaryens, who did it to keep the royal blood pure.

[whimsicalmeerkat]

Jackie wrote: "Even if Robert was good to Cersei, she still would have kept her ongoing affair with Jaime. She said it started early, I'm thinking the teenage years. ?? "

I think it was actually before this, iirc.

[Jackie]

Jason, I think you're right, it was only the Targaryens who did it, and why they did it.
So..why do you think Cersei and Jaime started doing it? Do you think being twins had anything to do with it?

Denae, I remember a scene where Jaime remembers them as children (not sure what age, but young), I was under the impression they weren't actually doing it, just play acting. The maid walked in on them and told their mother and she separated their living quarters. Is this the scene you mean? Were they actually doing it? I can't remember for sure.

I'm currently reading ASoS, so I may not be up to some of this stuff we're talking about. Any clarification helps.

[whimsicalmeerkat]

I'm putting this in a spoiler tag so as to not inadvertently offend anyone. (view spoiler)[I think it depends on what you mean by "it." If you mean simply sexual intercourse, then I imagine that was not taking place before their teen years due to physical limitations. It is certainly more than strongly implied however that they were extremely physically and sexually intimate, later culminating in a "full" sexual relationship upon their reaching physical maturity, for the entirety of their lives. Cersei says that she and Jaime are practically a single person, stating that he came out of the womb holding her heel, and that she feels complete when he is inside her. I do not think it make sense to view their physical relationship as one that did not begin until they were teenagers. (hide spoiler)]

[Jason]

I'm not sure. My guess would be the fact that they're twins, like you suggested. Twins are usually very close as it is anyway. So, I would say that it started in their childhood, like with the scene you described. But it became more serious as they got older.

If it ever goes into more detail in the series, I forget. Thank goodness I'm rereading it for the release Dance with Dragons. LOL

[Jackie]

Jason, There's a lot to these books and I find it easy to miss stuff completely or just forget, as more important things can be happening elsewhere. This is my first read. I had the insane notion of waiting til GRRM finished the series before starting on it. I know, laugh at me. But as the TV series grew closer to premiere, I knew I had to start it anyway. I know already, these books need a re-read.

Danae, yes, I meant 'it' as in intercourse. Good explanation, btw. I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around their relationship, your reply helped.

[Maggie]

I always read Renly as gay...is that just me?

[Maggie]

yup, Nikki, that was what I thought

[Jackie]

I never saw any of it. Renly was a minor character in AGOT who took off after Robert died, I barely remember him in AGOT. I have better memories of him in CoK but I still didn't see homosexual, I wasn't looking for it and it wasn't obvious, well, not to me anyway.

If anyone has passages they can point me to, so I can re-read it, I'd welcome them. I feel like I'm missing something and I really don't want to skim over everything in search of it.

[Tracey]

Jackie wrote: "If anyone has passages they can point me to, so I can re-read it, I'd welcome them. I feel like I'm missing something and I really don't want to skim over everything in search of it."

Try this thread: I think there are references, or a linkie.

[Jackie]

Thanks for the link Tracey.
Kate posted a link that has direct quotes, if anyone is interested. While it is not clearly stated in the books, many passages could be seen as proof. Yet, these same passages could also have different explanations that are just as logical. However, after reading the following link, I think GRRM was subtly telling us Renly and Loras were lovers. http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/mlarchiv...

Often I'm pretty good at picking up on things, like Joffrey's parentage, I knew that early on, long before it was ever said. Also in AGOT, Jon's parentage, I have yet to read any discussion about that and it's so obvious to me. I don't know why I missed Loras and Renly, it could be that I was more focused on other things. Well, that's all cleared up now, thanks again Tracey!