Steven Erikson's Malazon Book of the Fallen Series

[[deleted user]]

Agreed, bud

[Robert]

What book are you on, Grant?

People I know who have read the whole series say it doesn't jump the shark at all. I think the fact that the books cover more or less self-contained stories lowers that likelihood.

Also, have you read Ian Esselmont (Erikson's co-creator of that world?). Night of Knives is good. Havne't read Return of the Crimson Guard.

[[deleted user]]

No, I don't think they've come anywhere near jumping the shark in my opinion. I've enjoyed each and every novel though I thought Deadhouse Gates was the best by far. I've read them all and re-read the first four. I've also read Esselmont's novels as well. You nailed it, Esselmont's the co-creator of the Malazan world. They originally tried to build the Malazan world as a RPG and then a motion picture but when they couldn't get either to fly, Erikson made Gardens of the Moon into a novel. Obviously that's working out pretty peachy ;)

I've read both of Esslemont's books as well and enjoyed em both. Im looking forward to Stonewielder...wish they hadn't pushed back the publication date but as long as he doesn't go all Martin, we'll be okay

[Robert]

Yeah, from what I've read, the setting was part of their 1e AD&D game, and then migrated to GURPS, which was more adaptable (I can't see the magic system of the Malazan books working in D&D).

Gardens of the Moon would make a really cool Syfy channel mini-series, if they did it properly.

[[deleted user]]

And there's the rub...can you see them Really doing it well? As much as I'd like to hope they would after the Dresden debacle I have little to no faith

[Robert]

Yeah, Dresden files. You know, I didn't think it was horrible, or at least it wouldn't have been if it was their original creation. But as an adaptation of Butcher's work it really wasn't good. I felt bad for Butcher upon seeing it (I met Jim once, briefly, and he's a tremendously nice guy).

But you're right, they'll probably screw it up. I did not like Gormenghast (one of my favorite book series), though in fairness I think BBC actually made that, though Syfy showed it.

I did think they did a pretty good job with Dune, however.

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*, *good karma*]

Grant wrote: "Incidentally...Book whore :) favorite new phrase."

lol :)

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*, *good karma*]

R. Scott wrote: "You don't have to take notes. If you'd like to, that's fine, however.

Also, the books serve well enough as stand-alone novels. You are best served reading them in chronological order, I suppose, ..."

I can do stand-alones, I think that's the only reason I've been able to read all of Andre Norton's Witch World.

Ok, yall have convinced me;-) I'll put book 1 in my TBR list.

[Danielle The Book Huntress]

MrsJoseph wrote: "Lady Danielle "The Book Huntress" wrote: "MrsJoseph, I'm worried about the notetaking part myself. I honestly don't see me doing that. Kinda lazy about such things. When I read Kushiel's Dart, I w..."

MrsJoseph, I don't know if I will read the rest. The sex kind of squicked me out and those books are long!!! Maybe someday. I heard the newest series is not as good.

[Danielle The Book Huntress]

I have the first book in this series. I'll start there. I will give myself a while to read it, like I did Kushiel's Dart, although when I picked up the second time, I buzzed through it.

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*, *good karma*]

Lady Danielle "The Book Huntress" wrote: "MrsJoseph wrote: "Lady Danielle "The Book Huntress" wrote: "MrsJoseph, I'm worried about the notetaking part myself. I honestly don't see me doing that. Kinda lazy about such things. When I read K..."

The sex is kinda wild, but I enjoy a little smut now & then. One of the things I love about Carey's work in this series is that her characters change as they age. Book 1 has the most sex since she is about 18 y/o and rather callow. Book 2 has less sex than book 1 and book 3 less than book 2.

[Douglas]

Ive read the first one, was really good but had to read it a few times till I could follow along with all the different characters, and fully understand what was going on

[Danielle The Book Huntress]

Oh that's good to hear, MrsJoseph. I really liked the characters: Phedre, Joscelin, Hyacinth, etc.

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*, *good karma*]

Michael wrote: "Ive read the first one, was really good but had to read it a few times till I could follow along with all the different characters, and fully understand what was going on"

I have to admit that I loved this series. I've read the first 6 several times. There are some rough spots, but great characters and wonderful plots.

[Andrea]

I work in a High School library, and we just got the first 5 books of the Malazan series. Sadly someone lost the first book in the series before I got a chance to get started.

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*, *good karma*]

Andrea wrote: "I work in a High School library, and we just got the first 5 books of the Malazan series. Sadly someone lost the first book in the series before I got a chance to get started."

:( There is a special place in hell for people who lose other people's books...

[Jason]

You're right, MrsJoseph. It's the place in hell where people are continuously beaten with the hardest book spines imaginable.

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*, *good karma*]

Jason wrote: "You're right, MrsJoseph. It's the place in hell where people are continuously beaten with the hardest book spines imaginable."

lol!

[Chris]

I have read all 9 of the novels, and all of them at least twice. You have to view each novel as a fragment of a much larger narrative. As a you delve further into the series you will see how truly immense this story is, the individual stories begin to weave together and a truly epic back history becomes just as important as the current events.

Erikson is an archaeologist by trade, and it bleeds into the history of his world. As the series progresses he builds his world by adding layers of history that really provides the framework of a massive and ambitious story.

I have been reading fantasy novels my entire life and I have never read anything like this series. It almost makes me think of watching HBOs The Wire - you can't watch a single episode in isolation and expect it to tell a traditional story with a beginning, middle, and end; you have to watch a full season, at the very least, to see how everything ties together. Characters in Erikson's world develop over several volumes and at very different paces.

I feel like I'm rambling, but a previous poster said that it breaks the rules of traditional fantasy, and it does. Give it a chance, there really is nothing really quite like this.

[Clay]

I gotta agree with Vocaltic. I picked up Gardens of the Moon, probably 10 years ago now, in hardback on a whim while browsing Barnes & Noble's new fiction section. Erikson had me at hello - so to speak. From the prologue I was hooked. I have been a fan ever since and am eagerly awaiting the conclusion to this epic come March 1. My only fear is that Steven will decide he's done with the Malazan Empire with the release of The Crippled God ... C'mon Steve! There's many more stories to tell! Keep writing in this fantastic world you guys' created!

[Maggie]

I just think these books are amazing...their intacacy never ceases to amaze me, hoe even a minor character will have a story. No one is good or evil, they just are. You feel sympoathy for the assassins and start to think the martyrs had it coming. My two favorite characters are a munitions expert and the god of assassins...both of whom trukly beleive they are doing 'the right thing'
But then, everyone who has ever read one of my posts knows what an Erikson fanatic I am..lol

[Maggie]

and yeah, after what happened to Dresden files, I wouldn't trust this to Syfy at all

[Clay]

Thanks for that good news Nicki! I'm already excited! The Bauchelain/Broach novellas are witty, fun and easy to digest, but nothing beats a brand-spankin'-new five pound Erickson door stopper!

[Maggie]

At another site, I had the chance to ask Esslemont a question and I asked if they plan to do some of the backstories with the Emperor at any time, and he answered with this:

You know, Steve and I have talked over presenting those stories from the beginning of the Empire: K & D’s first meeting and such. We agreed that I might tackle them as novellas just like his Bauchelain and Korbel Broach pieces. They’d be non-sequential moments from the histories showing various encounters and pivotal moments. All will have to wait however, until I finish the last two of my first six for Bantam.

[Rob]

Im reading the new Esslemont. (StoneWielder) Im half way though it and its great. You realy have to read his books. they realy tie into the Malazan Empire. does any one know when the next Erikson comes out.

[Clay]

Amazon has a March 1 release date for the Kindle version of The Crippled God - the final chapter in The Book of the Fallen. I haven't looked to see if the hardback release is on March 1 as well. But just a couple more weeks and I'll be hip deep in Erikson goodness. If you want an early jump on it though, Tor.com has the 1st chapter available for online reading to members. Just create a profile and enjoy some sweet previewing action at your leisure. Good good stuff. Color me excited!

[Rob]

Thanks, I Will check that out. I cant wait, but im a little sad its almost over.it been a heck of a ride

[Clay]

Dude, I completely agree. But check out Nicki's and Maggie's previous posts. Sounds like Erikson has contracted out to produce at least two more trilogies set within the world of the Malazan Empire while Esslemont appears to have more up his sleeve as well. The future still looks bright for their fans.

[Maggie]

Clay wrote: "Dude, I completely agree. But check out Nicki's and Maggie's previous posts. Sounds like Erikson has contracted out to produce at least two more trilogies set within the world of the Malazan Empire..."

I agree Clay-I was excited about Esslemont's answer because Dancer has really come to be one of my fave characters, glad to hear we will see more of him!

One of the forums here, Fantasy book club series, is starting a read of the whole series, so there is a lot of discussing happening!

[Clay]

Oh yeah, Maggie! He's one of my favorites as well. Very calm, cool and collected. There's something to be said for a guy whose confident enough in his asskickability to waltz around with a name like Dancer... :) I used to wonder where Prancer and Vixen were? But knowing Erikson's delicious character naming prowess, I'm sure they're out there somewhere - just waiting to be written about I suppose.

[Rob]

the Rope is tough. he carry,s shadow thrown.
my question is why does a god have to walk with a cane?

[Clay]

Lol - good question Rob. I assume it's all part of Shadowthrone's affectations toward portraying himself as something of a manically inclined enigma. And I seem to recall Kellanved required the use of a cane as a mortal prior to his ascendancy. But you certainly don't get the idea that he's still in need of mobility assistance. Chalk it up to just one more indication of his eccentricities as the lord of Shadow. :)

[Clay]

Having read the the MBotF series a few times as well (and being a die-hard Erikson fan), I can offer a little insight. This will be slightly different than many series' you may already be used to. Erikson tends to switch continents between books (literally). The Malazan Empire is a hemisphere spanning behemoth of a political machine which is peopled with primary characters in each continental theater. So you should be prepared for a global epic. Where the first book took place on the continent of Genebakis, the second takes place on Seven Cities continent - then back to Genebakis in Memories of Ice. And then, in book 5, Erikson dumps you on the opposite side of the globe, with a completely new cast in Midnight Tides ... Many people seem to have gotten frustrated that some of the characters they fell in love with in Gardens of the Moon did not make an appearance in Deadhouse Gates, etc. etc. etc. Never fear. Steve will bring them back. His over-all plot covers so much ground (metaphysically AND physically speaking) that multiple story arcs must be forgiven. And the way he weaves events together to portray this multiple, world spanning, complex pantheistic power struggle between gods, mortals and ascendants is literally breathtaking.

And once you hit book 6 or 7, the grandeur of what is taking place in front of you begins to reveal itself bit by bit. Sure the ride up to that point is still awesome, but the true depth and interconnectedness of the plot really begins to sink in the further you get. And by the time you hit book 9 (which is part 1 of the final chapter), you are so completely immersed in this fantastically crafted world and are so intimately acquainted with Erikson's principal cast that you can actually feel what these incredibly complex characters are dealing with - not to mention finding yourself arriving at plot conclusions simultaneously with these amazing characters which you've come to know and love/hate.

I would say note taking isn't a must, but it may help. Each book includes a few maps and a lengthy dramatis personae of characters - but sometimes the descriptions are woefully brief causing a bit of anxiety as you return to a character who might have been absent for a couple of volumes. However, Erikson does a good job of reminding you, within the narrative, who this character is and why they're important even if you've forgotten them.

Can you tell I love this series??? lol. While it may not be for everyone, I'm of the opinion that what Steven has managed to accomplish in this rapidly written (ten 600 or 700 [plus] page books published within a decade and a year) series is nothing short of mind blowing. But despite all of that, it's - at it's heart - still nothing more than a fantastic story. To everyone who sticks with it, enjoy!

[Jason]

Clay, I read the first book, Gardens of the Moon, and thought it was okay. It didn't blow me away or anything. I've read reviews, however, that the second book, Deadhouse Gates, is where a lot of people really begin to get hooked. Would you say that is the case? I ask because I really want to be stolen away by something like Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire did to me some time ago.

Also, it's been a year or so since I've read Gardens, so should I reread it before giving the series a second go?

[[deleted user]]

I've always said that Deadhouse Gates was Erikson's finest work. Clay, I'm a total fan as well (if you couldn't tell by my obsessive notekeeping...lol) and I agree wholeheartedly that Erikson's ability to interweave storylines across books is nothing short of amazing. Hell even if your fav character dies that doesn't even Begin to mean they're out of the picture...lol. Jason, back to Deadhouse Gates. It's the book that made me really fall in love with the series. I hated the way Gardens of the Moon just threw you right into the middle of a world that you were apparently supposed to just know but in Deadhouse Gates, Erikson really does a great job of drawing you in at a steadier pace. The story of Coltaine's march (the Chain of Dogs) is nothing short of Epic. I mean you can really use the word to it's fullest extent when describing the tale. I'd highly recommend you read it even if you never pick up the rest of the series

[Jason]

Thanks, Grant! Should I reread Gardens?

[Clay]

Hey Jason,

Deadhouse Gates is a better novel than Gardens was. And yes, it was definitely the book that pulled me in. But keep in mind that many of the characters introduced in DG will be new - and only a few return from GotM. Most of what occured in GotM isn't followed up on until Memories of Ice. So, feel free to give Deadhouse Gates a whirl without re-reading GotM. If DG ends up grabbing you, you can always re-read GotM before moving on to MoI without hurting the continuity much at all. But if you remember the basics of GotM, a re-read may not even be necessary at all.

I wouldn't want you to miss Deadhouse Gates though. It's one of my all time favorites of the series. Coltaine's Trail of Tears is really something that has to be witnessed in Erikson's words. To me, it was equal parts Blackhawk Down and Dances with Wolves with a healthy dose of epic Greek Tragedy thrown in. I know, I know, an odd analogy for a fantasy story ... read it. You'll see it.

[[deleted user]]

Lol no you totally nailed it Clay! Everytime I read the book I think Blackhawk Down as well. It's just amazing. The Historian is my fav character though Coltaine is just amazing. I agree with Clay, Jason. You don't need to reread Gardens to fully enjoy Deadhouse Gates. Jump right in!

[Jason]

Excellent! I think I remember most of Gardens, so I'll continue with Deadhouse.

I'm excited now!

[Clay]

Agreed Grant! Duiker added that human element needed to better set the epic stature of Coltaine and his horse warriors apart. That's what made his character so engaging in the first place.

And Jason, I'm excited FOR you. The first read of DG is an awsome ride!

[Devon]

This is helpful to me, as I am somewhere between chapter 4 and what the hell is going on!? I love not being talked down to by an author and needing to be told what's going on, but....it's like watching 12 monkeys the first time and going to the bathroom once.
I'm sticking with it because I find hints of something great here. Steven Erikson draws you down into the setting so that I swear my shoes must be dirty. Anyhow, Glad I saw this thread.

[Jason]

I think that this link was posted earlier within this thread, but Tor is hosting a rereading of the entire series with one reader who's reading Malazan for the first time and another who is some sort of Malazan expert/scholar. They read two chapters then discuss.

I haven't really checked it out much because I want to read the series first. But it looks pretty cool.

Here's the link:

http://www.tor.com/blogs/2010/04/mala...

[Clay]

Devon, I won't lie and tell you that you will always feel like you completely know what is going on ... but, on the other hand, this isn't "Lost" with a few dragons tossed in either. Erikson isn't withholding vital plot information just to be a douche. Yes, he sort of dumps you into the world with no up-front knowledge of it's history or it's rules, but he's brilliant enough to throw just enough hints at you to indicate something much larger is going on than what appears on the surface of things. But don't be discouraged. Again, this isn't "Lost". This isn't one of those series' where you're kept in the dark until the epilogue of book 10 either. Erikson deftly walks that fine line between revealing too little and losing his audience and revealing too much and destroying the mystery. As the series progresses, you'll get a TON of answers. But you'll still always have that sneaking suspicion that something else is out there that hasn't yet been dropped on you. By the time you get to Memories of Ice though, you'll have a pretty firm grasp of the world, it's races, it's politics and even a little of it's history. And by the time you hit book 6 or 7, you'll begin to understand what is really going on behind the scenes. That's not to say you'll have all the answers. Erikson's too crafty for that. But, believe me, you won't be in the dark for too much longer. Stick with it. This series mixes awed emotions of majestic grandeur with a disturbingly raw, animalistic brutality so well that the two almost begin to blur together. It's a wild, well written ride.

[Clay]

Jason, I checked out the Tor.com reread link you posted and it's pretty cool. They have mixed both Erikson's and Esslemont's Malazan books together into a loose chronological order. Since both of them co-created the world, they're each telling selected tales from the Malazan Empire and Tor's list conveniently puts them into chronological order for you.

But reading both authors isn't a requirement to fully understanding the world. Esslemont follows a slightly different cast of characters with a few peripheral characters merging between the two. And while they both tell different tales, the two authors' books definitely complement each other well. If Erikson's MBotF sucks you in like it did me, I would highly recommend Esslemont's books as added flavor.

[Dawn]

Jason wrote: "Clay, I read the first book, Gardens of the Moon, and thought it was okay. It didn't blow me away or anything. I've read reviews, however, that the second book, [book:Deadhouse Gates|5..."

I'm in the same boat as you, Jason, except that I kinda hated Gardens. Ok maybe not hated.. I was just mad at it. It took me so long to get through it because I just wasn't interested.. But I kept pushing because people said it would pay off.. But then when it didn't, it made me angry at the book. I had never been so happy to finally finish something!

I, too, have been considering trying Deadhouse... I think eventually I will... I just have to get the motivation to make myself. I want to love the series, I really do.. I'm afraid I'll be disappointed again :(

[Maggie]

Jason- Starting up again at Deadhouse Gates is probably a good idea. It is a lot of people's favorite. Erikson has some amazing imagery in it. I think the thing that pulls me in is the amazing world building. I just keep being amazed how complex it gets.
I've been participating in the TOR reread since it started, and it's been really helpful as well.
I have to say for me that Memories of Ice is my favorite. I literally started bawling three different times when I read that book.
Here on GoodReads, the Fantasy Book series is doing a series read on this.

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*, *good karma*]

SO wait! Who wrote the series??

[Maggie]

MrsJoseph wrote: "SO wait! Who wrote the series??"

Sorry if we are being confusing! Steven Erikson wrote the Malazan series based on a role-playing game that he and his friend Ian Cameron Esslemont played. IIRC, They wrote a screenplay based on this that never was made. Erikson took that and turned it into Gardens of the Moon and ultimately into the Malazan series.

Then Esslemont started his own series, also based on the game, but it was planned between them what stories each would do so there wasn't overlap. So there is another Malazan series starting with the book Night of Knives that is an independent series, yet set in the same world

[MrsJoseph *grouchy*, *good karma*]

*face palm* Thanks for the explantation.

[Devon]

Clay, thank you for the infomation, I do plan on going deeper into the series. I've heard nothing but good here, so...I trust you all here enough to tear into it. That's what reading is supposed to be right? an adventure.