Q&A with Josh Lanyon discussion
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What else are you reading? (June 2010 - May 2013) *closed*
It's a widely held belief that you have to like the characters, but I think that's nonsense. I mean, I wrote Vadim Krasnorada, and he's a racist, a rapist and a mass-murderer. And people care about him. In many ways, he gets more human and moral throughout the story (that's his arch), but he keeps his potential for darkness. I think what people like about him is that redemption arch, and the fact he is not just a monster. He's also a father, caring husband, and he is in a bad situation in a bad place at a bad time. So, I think it's more important to be able to empathise than to like.
Mod
Yes, I think you are absolutely right. And I think that Vadim is a perfect, even extreme, example for this.
If I would have been able to feel pity for Tim, to empathize him, in Something Like Summer and in Something Like Winter, I think that I could have felt differently about these books (and the way they ended).
ETA: Why I couldn't feel pity, I don't know. Does it all come down to understanding again?
ETA2: Or maybe I didn't see the redemption arch (that Aleks mentioned) happening?
Johanna - Same thing works for Toreth, or Jacob Cullen. Maria McCann told me she keeps getting love letters to Jacob. (And he's a disturbed piece of work.)
Mod
I haven't read As Meat Loves Salt yet, but Toreth... yes, definitely.
Johanna wrote: "Aleksandr wrote: "So, I think it's more important to be able to empathise than to like."Yes, I think you are absolutely right. And I think that Vadim is a perfect, even extreme, example for this...."
I used the verb ''like'', but what I meant was to feel something for the MCs, basically what you, Aleks and Johanna, are saying.
I'm absolutely invested in Vadim and Toreth, but I couldn't connect with Ben and Tim.
I've tried a few light Christmassy reads with mixed results. Currently reading Mel Bossa's Split and really liking it.Now considering the time of year I'm browsing for freebies ;)
Johanna wrote: "Aleksandr wrote: "Johanna - Same thing works for Toreth, or Jacob Cullen. Maria McCann told me she keeps getting love letters to Jacob. (And he's a disturbed piece of work.)"I haven't read As Meat Loves Salt yet, but Toreth... yes, definitely. "
I will shortly receive Aleks copy. I'd happily send it on to you when I've finished reading it... and it will help towards my NY resolution of reducing the number of books in my house.
Mod
I haven't read As Meat Loves Salt yet, but Toreth... yes, definitely. "
I will shortly receive Aleks copy. I'd happily send it on to you when I've finished reading it... and it will help towards my NY resolution of reducing the number of books in my house."
That would be very nice of you, Caroline. :) And after I've read it, I'll then send it to anyone of you who wants to read it. I like that idea!
By the way, pretty challenging New Year's resolution you have there... ;)
Caroline - Oh, very clever.(Also, I really like the idea of sending books onwards... Maybe we should a gay/m/&m related circle. I have a couple m/ms I'd give to friends to clear up space)
Mod
(Also, I really like the idea of sending books onwards... Maybe we should a gay/m/&m related circle. I have a couple m/ms I'd give to friends to clear up space)"
I really love the idea that there is a book that will travel from one of us to another. :) How cool is that?! Is one allowed to scribble anything on the margins? Or leave secret post-it messages and sketches between the pages? LOL. ;)
And yes! We really should have a gay/m/&m related circle, like Aleks suggested! I'm in!
Yep! I actually like making notes. :)
Johanna wrote: "Aleksandr wrote: "Caroline - Oh, very clever.(Also, I really like the idea of sending books onwards... Maybe we should a gay/m/&m related circle. I have a couple m/ms I'd give to friends to clear..."
I would like that too :)
Mod
I wandered away as the ramp up to Christmas got intense for me, and now I've come back to over a thousand unread messages in this group! That's, uh, not gonna happen. :PSo I'm just popping in to say hi! Hope everyone had a good holiday season. And to say that I'm currently reading Cold Days by Jim Butcher (Christmas present!) and loving it!
Johanna wrote: "I was trying to go through my bookshelf for a m/m book I could send away, but it seems that I only have my absolute favorites in print...."I'm afraid I'm in the same boat. Since I'm about six-bookcase-inches from compulsory divorce (a sort of domestic cliff), I buy everything electronically, then buy the paper books for, well, relicular purposes.
Becky wrote: "I wandered away as the ramp up to Christmas got intense for me, and now I've come back to over a thousand unread messages in this group! That's, uh, not gonna happen. :PSo I'm just popping in to..."
Hi Becky! I am currently reading this too, in addition to Under the Rushes, but there hasn't been much reading lately at all with all things Christmas going on. Plus I have knitted a pair of mittens for my daughter's English boyfriend who has never had homemade mittens before, and I am currently working on a matching pair for her :). At this moment I am still dizzy from a ten hour drive from my parents' home on the West Coast of Norway. The ground is still sligthly moving under my feet :)
Becky wrote: "So I'm just popping in to say hi! Hope everyone had a good holiday season. And to say that I'm currently reading Cold Days by Jim Butcher (Christmas present!) and loving it! ..."I have Cold Days on audio. I haven't listened to it yet. I want to start it soon.
Anne wrote: "Johanna wrote: "Aleksandr wrote: "Caroline - Oh, very clever.(Also, I really like the idea of sending books onwards... Maybe we should a gay/m/&m related circle. I have a couple m/ms I'd give to ..."
Sounds like an awful lot of fun! I would want to participate, but I know from experience how much money it is to mail a book over seas... (Swapped signed books w/ a friend in Norway. I think my eyes bugged out of my head when the post office guy told me the price of shipment--the LOWEST price.) If you guys go ahead and do this, I'd love to hear about your experiences. :)
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Aww... how sweet... and how romantic!!! :)
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LOL! That sounds awfully familiar, John. ;)
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Among those are Finding Zach, Branded, a few Andrew Grey books, and I'm soon going to have a second copy of each Adrien English book and I haven't decided what to do yet with the old editions. But that's it. Well, that's it for the books I've read so far. There are a ton of print books on my coffee table I have yet to read. Don't know if any of those I'll be willing to part with. Some I know I won't, but there might be a few. Eventually.
Aleksandr wrote: "Caroline - Oh, very clever.(Also, I really like the idea of sending books onwards... Maybe we should a gay/m/&m related circle. I have a couple m/ms I'd give to friends to clear up space)"
Aleks - it's more a survival strategy than being clever - did someone mention a domestic cliff?
But I also love the idea of books being passed around the group like a kind of baton race.
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Looks wonderful!
Mod
..."
For me, when it comes to a series, yes. I do have to like the main character. Maybe because I have an increasingly low threshold for books that don't instantly engage me.
But for a standalone, it's not crucial that I like the character. I just have to find their situation gripping enough or intriguing enough to follow.
In fact, I think part of what makes a really effective standalone is when the reader is not quite sure they like the main character, when the main character has to win them over through the course of the story -- often because the main character is learning and changing through the story.
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So I'm just popping in to..."
YAY for Christmas books! I have such a stack of vintage mysteries here. I'm getting pleasure just gazing on this stack. :-D
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..."
What's interesting -- and harder to define -- is what makes me like a character. Because sometimes I find myself liking characters with traits I typically dislike! So how do those negatives balance with positives to make me ultimately like -- care about -- the character?
Na wrote: "Antonella, why couldn't you empathize with them ? I haven't read the books yet so I'm curious."The matter is a very subjective one, but I didn't see that much character development in both MCs, even though the book covers the space of many years. Some things were cliché.
Add also following points:
- high expectations because many friends gave Something Like Summer 4 or 5 stars, only Anne gave 3;
- the beginning was good, the rest weaker;
- a too convenient twist in the plot towards the end
and you'll get a not so happy reader ;-). Anyway I gave 3 stars...
Mod
The matter is a very subjective one, but I didn't see that much character development in ..."
I can't remember -- was it a first novel? I thought Bell's voice was engaging and the first part of the book held up well. Basically I think he tried to do too much and please everyone, so the second half suffers.
Telling the same story from the opposite character's POV is an interesting choice.
Josh wrote: "I thought Bell's voice was engaging and the first part of the book held up well."I agree, but then in the second part I was sometimes asking myself where the author was going...
I can't explain why it happens with some books and not with some others. For ex. I had decided I would read all day long to celebrate the beginning of the year (BTW it isn't possible, you have to come up for air now and then ;-).
I had a Neil Gaiman's marathon. I read first Coraline, now I'm obliging myself to go to bed, but it is hard because I'm so invested in Neverwhere's characters and I'd like to finish it.
I started to read Something Like Summer I think this one will go into my favorite list. The way it is written just appeals to me. I love the character development so far.
Josh wrote: "Josh wrote: "For me, when it comes to a series, yes. I do have to like the main character. ..."
What's interesting -- and harder to define -- is what makes me like a character. Because sometimes..."
That happens quite often for me, I really like a character in a book while I know the same traits would annoy me in real life. It probably comes down to the author's craft, the way he can convince me this is a likeable person. It always helps if the author is a little bit in love with the character himself :). I can remember a book where it was quite clear the author wanted to seduce the reader into liking a character despite...but it somehow shone through that she didn't much care for him, so neither did I.
ED wrote: "I started to read Something Like Summer I think this one will go into my favorite list. The way it is written just appeals to me. I love the character development so far."It would be interesting to hear your thoughts after you have finished it.
I liked it!I'm reading Atom Heart John Beloved. Talk about a character I'm not really liking but I want to know what he's feeling, what he's thinking despite what he's trying to convince me of :)
Josh wrote: "Telling the same story from the opposite character's POV is an interesting choice."I agree, Josh. And anytime you want to rewrite the Adrien English Mysteries from Jake's POV, please feel free. :)
Susan wrote: "Josh wrote: "Telling the same story from the opposite character's POV is an interesting choice."I agree, Josh. And anytime you want to rewrite the Adrien English Mysteries from Jake's POV, please feel free. :)"
This! :)
I think if you can get the motivation sorted, then you might have an "in" into even dark characters. Imagine two guys, BlackHat and WhiteHat. Both kill 20 people.
BH does it because to him, they are sub-humans.
WH does it because they attack his family.
Sum total: 20 people dead. One's a hero, one's a villain. We don't even question whether he could just have disabled the attackers or evacuated his family.
I find that kind of judgment really fascinating.
Mod
Ooohh, I really enjoyed that one.
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And thank yo..."
The Starving Years plot was voted on by the readers of her monthly newsletter, which is why it might seem to be not of her usual work. If that makes sense. I enjoyed reading it piecemeal, but at some point I'll pick up the print book and read it all the way through. I think that will be a slightly different read and it'll be interesting to compare both reading experiences.
Mod
I agree, Josh. And anytime you want to rewrite the Adrien English Mysteries from Jake..."
So a long time ago I read Twilight. Ugh. I hate to admit that. But then Meyer said she was going to come out with Twilight from Edward's POV. She had the first chapter or two posted on her website. Terrible. Just terrible. We knew enough from Bella's POV to understand most of Edward's already so that the book from his POV was totally copying the original.
I don't really recommend doing that for a lot of people.
However, that being said, Josh, something from Jake's POV could be very interesting because I know he went through a lot without Adrien that we just don't know about. I'd be all for that. Plus, I like Jake's character much more than I ever liked Edward. lol.
Mod
Imagine two guys, BlackHat and WhiteHat. Both kill 20 people.
BH does it because to him, they..."
That is definitely fascinating, but so true, in a kind of sad way.
Jordan wrote: "However, that being said, Josh, something from Jake's POV could be very interesting because I know he went through a lot without Adrien that we just don't know about."I can't believe I'm saying this, but...I think I'm good not reading Jake's POV. Maybe I'm just spinning romantic fantasies in my head (er, well, I'm always spinning romantic fantasies in my head), but I inferred a lot of Jake's POV from his words and actions throughout the series. When I was done with all 5 books, I went back and skimmed through them for all of the interaction between Adrien and Jake. I saw all of Jake's hedging, looks, strange visits to Adrien, decisions, and words in a new light, after knowing what he reveals to Adrien at the end of the series about his feelings. I could actually see (and feel) his internal struggle. I think all the clues were there through the books, but were subtle and hard to interpret, since the story was filtered through Adrien's perspective. On the re-read, knowing Jake's take, they were all suddenly...there. Usually, I like a romance story that shares both MC perspectives (I think it ramps up the tension), but in the case of AE...I don't know. I guess reading Jake's POV would, well, kill some of the mystery. :) (And the mystery of Jake is a big part of what makes him so attractive to me. Outwardly strong, inwardly suffering. What is going on in his mind?)
I've been reading through Michael Nava's excellent Henry Rios series: The Little Death, Goldenboy, How Town, The Hidden Law, The Death of Friends, The Burning Plain & Rag and Bone.
Mod
Nava is a fabulist stylist.
Lori wrote: "I've been reading through Michael Nava's excellent Henry Rios series: The Little Death, Goldenboy, How Town, The Hidden Law, The Death of Friends, The Burning Plain & Rag and Bone."Lori, I'm having a devil of a time finding blurbs and excerpts for these books.
"Aleksandr wrote: "Imagine two guys, BlackHat and WhiteHat. Both kill 20 people... We don't even question whether he could just have disabled the attackers or evacuated his family. "Jordan wrote: That is definitely fascinating, but so true, in a kind of sad way. "
Eh. I disagree with both of you. IME very few people would read about the hero killing 20 people and not think about whether it was necessary or the right thing to do. It comes up all the time, even in comic books and Supernatural. About the only place it might be like that is in high concept action movies, and even then - Jason Bourne certainly angsted about killing. And Batman is all about that.
Charming wrote: " "Aleksandr wrote: "Imagine two guys, BlackHat and WhiteHat. Both kill 20 people... We don't even question whether he could just have disabled the attackers or evacuated his family. "Jordan wrote..."
My experience is often that while reading, in the midst of the story, I might adopt the view of the one doing the killing and his rationalisations, but afterwards, when I have regained my senses, I might start to question the necessity. It is always about the quality of the writing, if the book is good enough and I am drawn into the story, I accept what is happening there and then, but later my own values and ideas will surface. Also it depends on the genre, I will accept more killing and murder in a fantasy setting than a contemporary story.
K.Z. wrote: "Lori wrote: "I've been reading through Michael Nava's excellent Henry Rios series: The Little Death, Goldenboy, How Town, The Hidden Law, The Death of Friends, The Burning Plain & Rag and Bone."L..."
The Little Death, Goldenboy and Howtown blurbs on Amazon UK.
I am currently reading Jacob's Ladder, third in the St. Nachos series. I enjoyed the other two books, but I really like Jacob and all the St. Nachos characters in this one.
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Q&A with Josh Lanyon
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It is the same story as in Something Like Summer told from the other guy standpoint, I hadn't realized this when I bought it.
Alr..."
I see that you commented already on Something Like Winter while I was writing my comment... ;)