Q&A with Josh Lanyon discussion
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Liade wrote: "Anne wrote: "Cleon wrote: "Lauraadriana wrote: "Josh wrote: You've nailed it with the comment on the sex scenes. I think this is why I'm increasingly bored with them -- not just in what I read, but..."I know, I think the emotion is the key. It can be a well-written sex scene, but if there's no anticipation I'm bored.
The thing about a sex scene is that it is just like any other scene. It must advance the story in some way, or it doesn't belong there. A lot of things can be accomplished in a sex scene, especially in a genre that is focused on love and relationships. But you can't just stick extra sex in to spice up the story and expect readers to stay interested.
Talking about sex scene, I just finished
by Josh (yes, I should be spanked for reading instead of writing. lol). It's not my favorite book because of some issues, but the sex scene is satisfying as always, so intimate and tender.
Cleon wrote: "Talking about sex scene, I just finished by Josh (yes, I should be spanked for reading instead of writing. lol). It's not my favorite book because of some issues..."Wow, that's one of my very favorite of Josh's books. But I can't remember the sex in it at all. LOL
@Becky -- I agree with you, but I can't help thinking there are a lot of M/M readers out there who are pretty invested in the one-handed reading. It's a fine line to walk in this genre, or at least I'm having difficulty with it. :)
Anne wrote: "Cleon wrote: "Talking about sex scene, I just finished by Josh (yes, I should be spanked for reading instead of writing. lol). It's not my favorite book because ..."Yeah, the ending was rushed and too unbelievable for me. I love it very much until (view spoiler) It's still very enjoyable though.
Anne wrote: " there are a lot of M/M readers out there who are pretty invested in the one-handed reading."That's true. But titillation only lasts for so long. Eventually those readers will either discover other things to appreciate in the genre or move on to something else. Which leaves the publisher and author with a group of valuable core readers who will buy everything they can get their hands on, as long as the quality remains high.
I can understand to a certain extent why publishers push for more sexual content in their books. But it strikes me as a foolish long-range sales plan.
Anne wrote: "I like Fair Game for sex. The best is when Elliot is remembering what sex with Tucker was like -- not even an actual sex scene. :)"I love when characters remember, because when you choose a memory, it's because it was meaningful and the emotion is sometimes more intense than the act while it was happening. You know, the feeling of being overwhelmed with it.
Cleon wrote: "Lauraadriana wrote: "Josh wrote: You've nailed it with the comment on the sex scenes. I think this is why I'm increasingly bored with them -- not just in what I read, but in writing them too. I jus..."
Jake and Adrien in the Dark Tide...I don't know how I didn't blackout from holding my breath for so long. Out of the Blue was awesome too...Cowboy *sighs*
Jake and Adrien in the Dark Tide...I don't know how I didn't blackout from holding my breath for so long. Out of the Blue was awesome too...Cowboy *sighs*
Josh wrote: "And yet...with each book it's the first time a particular set of characters have been together, so there is always something new to say or show. "I'll be the shallow one here and say I am disappointed when there isn't a sex scene in a romance. Sex - and particularly the first time in a new relationship - is really important in a relationship. The way people relate to each other is different than any other interaction, and yet they are still themselves. I want to see it.
Where I will agree with most of you is that repetition doesn't work. As Becky said, a sex scene needs to have a reason and accomplish something in the story.
Charming wrote: "Josh wrote: "And yet...with each book it's the first time a particular set of characters have been together, so there is always something new to say or show. "I'll be the shallow one here and say..."
That's not shallow, that's honest, and I agree. I just want there to be meaning. And I need buildup, both emotional and physical. It's like foreplay. :)
Talking about sex scenes, why isn't there any sex scenes involving food?
Cleon wrote: "Talking about sex scenes, why isn't there any sex scenes involving food?"I've read quite a few in m/f romance, but I can't think of any in m/m off the top of my head.
Include it in your HJD. :)
Cleon wrote: "Talking about sex scenes, why isn't there any sex scenes involving food?"Oh, there definitely are, although I don't think I've spotted any in Josh's work so far. The only one I can think of off the top of my head is in The Charlie Factor, but I'm positive there are more out there.
Anne wrote: "Cleon wrote: "Talking about sex scenes, why isn't there any sex scenes involving food?"I've read quite a few in m/f romance, but I can't think of any in m/m off the top of my head.
Include it in..."
LOL. Angels don't eat. I definitely will include it on my other fics though!
I didn't mind waiting so long for the Adrien-Jake sex scene, and I didn't mind that there was no sex scene at all (that I remember) in The French Have a Word For It.Sex scenes can be fun--I especially like them when one character is a bit neurotic, like worrying about whether he can say something and have it come out sounding sexy rather than stupid. (I just read an example of that in one of Jordan Castillo Price's Psycop books.)
I also love when the sex scene tells us more about the characters, as when we discovered just how considerate and giving Jake can be with Adrien.
But I don't read romance books (whether they're M/M, F/F, or M/F) for the sex scenes. I don't think I'm a prude or anything--it's just that too much sex can get numbing. I loved The Good Thief by James Buchanan, but I remember wondering how the two men found time to breathe in between all that sex . . .
Becky wrote: "Cleon wrote: "Talking about sex scenes, why isn't there any sex scenes involving food?"Oh, there definitely are, although I don't think I've spotted any in Josh's work so far. The only one I can..."
Thanks for the rec! I'll check it out. Later. I wont be writing anything if I keep reading. lol
It's not that I dislike sex scenes. Only that I've read thousands of fics, fanfics and original, I've pretty much desensitized. And most of them are mechanical or predictable anyway. Skipping or skimming such scenes become automatic for me. Also, yeah, too many sex scenes can be unrealistic. I find it hard to believe that anyone can pop a boner in life or death situations, unless that;s his kink.
Cleon wrote: "Anne wrote: "Cleon wrote: "Talking about sex scenes, why isn't there any sex scenes involving food?"I've read quite a few in m/f romance, but I can't think of any in m/m off the top of my head.
..."
Well, if angels don't eat, what better alternative use for food is there?
Liade wrote: "Fit round peg into round hole, agitate. Try different hole and/or different peg, agitate again (remember to add sounds). Repeat as necessary (adjusting angle and speed to taste) until desired result is achieved"Oh, my... *lol*
That sounds like a hybrid of baking recipe and IKEA construction manual. ;-)
Anne wrote: "Cleon wrote: "Anne wrote: "Cleon wrote: "Talking about sex scenes, why isn't there any sex scenes involving food?"I've read quite a few in m/f romance, but I can't think of any in m/m off the top..."
Hm... angels don't eat, but humans do, right? *grins*
Anne wrote: "I read the White Knight first, accidentally. It's one of my favorite books. I don't think it ruined the experience, exactly, but I wish I had read Dark Horse first."
Happened to me too :)
Happened to me too :)
Okay I just finished the Dark Farewell and argh!!!! What a place to leave it!
Mod
I guess that was one of my less successful experiments. I was trying to do something in the spirit of those late 19th/early 20th century ghost stories but most readers don't like that ending.
I think this is one of those the-operation-was-a-success-but-the-patient-died. :-)
You'll just need to write a sequel to remedy it then. :)
Not that I would object to a sequel ;-). But I had to go back and re-read because I couldn't remember anything negative about the ending.IMO it's a good ending. Why should everything be spelled out?
Josh wrote: "Lissa wrote: "Okay I just finished the Dark Farewell and argh!!!! What a place to leave it!"I guess that was one of my less successful experiments. I was trying to do something in the spirit of..."
Yes...I thought it was a marvelous story..different...but the ending just seemed to be left hanging. I wondered what you trying to do? I thought maybe pages were missing.
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IMO it's a good ending. Why should everything be spelled out?"
I know. Technically everything is wrapped up. There are no loose ends. There are questions about what the future will bring, but that's true of every book, really. It's just that a lot of readers want more of a winding down and a rehashing of what this meant and that meant and reassurance that it will be all right. I personally think it's the correct ending -- I wouldn't change it -- but it is not one of my super popular titles.
To say the least.
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;-)
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..."
That's how a lot of the ghost stories and gothic stories of that period end -- with a big dramatic bloody finale that leaves the basic questions answered but all the surviving characters hanging on a knife point.
I knew when I wrote it -- and my editor knew -- that a lot of readers would be going ????? But this is one of those cases where you have a need to tell a certain kind of story. You hope readers will follow what you're doing, but either way you have take that creative leap.
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And then I heard complaints that I wasn't writing the same kind of stuff anymore. :-P
Josh wrote: "I wouldn't have taken that creative leap early in the building of my backlist, though. I took it when I was starting to hear some complaints that I was only writing the same kind of stuff all the t..."Don't worry about them, Josh. Now if you stop writing, that would be a different issue altogether...
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Josh wrote: "Jane wrote: "Yes...I thought it was a marvelous story..different...but the ending just seemed to be left hanging. I wondered what you trying to do? I thought maybe pages were missing. ..."
Tha..."
I didn't know that. Thanks for clearing that up.
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..."
Thanks, Cleon. :-D
It was a good lesson because as the reviews came out and I heard how much some people disliked the book (or at least the ending) I had to consider whether I should have changed it, whether I regretted writing something that (many) readers weren't going to like.
And I came to the conclusion that it was right to tell the story I needed to tell -- that it was only one book out of all the books I would eventually write. And that not every reader loved every book anyway.
But again, when you're trying to build a backlist and buid a readership, you want to focus on branding, so you don't necessarily want to try a ton of wildly different things until you're selling steadily enough to survive your own experiments.
IMHO anyway.
Josh wrote: "But again, when you're trying to build a backlist and buid a readership, you want to focus on branding, so you don't necessarily want to try a ton of wildly different things until you're selling steadily enough to survive your own experiments. "Reasonable advice, as usual, Josh. I've been kind of thinking about it lately, and trying to put some stuff I've been planning on the back burner for that reason. Some of my characters are fighting me tooth and nail, though.
Josh wrote: "But again, when you're trying to build a backlist and buid a readership, you want to focus on branding, so you don't necessarily want to try a ton of wildly different things until you're selling steadily enough to survive your own experiments. "I don't know about this... My muse controls me. I don't control my muse. LOL. Cliche right? What I know for sure is although the setting might be different, my style is similar and readers will know what to expect from my stories easily.
Like with Anne, either she writes contemporary or sci-fi, I know what I will get if I read her story. It's not the genre that sets her apart, it's her style. (and sex scenes. *cough*)
Josh wrote: "But again, when you're trying to build a backlist and buid a readership, you want to focus on branding, so you don't necessarily want to try a ton of wildly different things until you're selling steadily enough to survive your own experiments. "I guess I'm already starting out wrong then, seeing as I write predominantly fantasy, but have a contemporary free story out and a request to see my full SF manuscript ...
Lissa wrote: "Okay I just finished the Dark Farewell and argh!!!! What a place to leave it!"I'm glad, I'm not the only one, then... ;-)
For me it was like a dichotomy. The more analytical part of my mind saw the intention and nodded satisfied because it worked. The other part, reacting purly on feelings, was confused and like "What? This was it? And now?"
It felt like the echo of some loud noise reverberating in the silence following it.
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Branding is gold in publishing. Branding = superstar. Publishers watch and hope for this for their authors, but only a relatively small percentage of authors achieve a distinct brand. But once achieved it is money in the bank.
Now obviously when we speak of author branding, we're not talking about bad books or good books or quality writers or original stories. Does Kraft really sell the best cheese macaroni? It's arguable, but they sure own one heck of the cheese mac market.
Here we're talking about writers who consistently offer a product that A LOT of people (readers in this case) want. These consumers like the product so much and are so confident of what that product will be that they buy it automatically when it appears or they run out of the current supply.
That is successful branding.
What do you get when you buy a Josh Lanyon book? Aside from a competently crafted story, what do you get? Lots and lots of writers competently craft m/m stories, so it's not that. What makes me an auto-buy for enough people that I can make a living at this?
It isn't that I write m/m or mysteries -- plenty of writers do those things. It isn't that I always write funny or contemporary or touching or sexy or whatever...it isn't any one of those things because I mix all those things up.
Can you be successful without branding? Absolutely. But the biggest successes are always what we call "the brand names."
It's funny how we all understand this about the rest of the world but can have trouble applying it to publishing.
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Yes! That's exactly right. That was absolutely the intention.
But is that emotionally satisfying? No. And probably the main goal in this genre is emotional satisfaction. So from that standpoint...not an, er, crashing success. ;-D
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You can't be that rigid about it. You have to write what you're moved to write.
At the same time, I think it's wise to get a few things out there in a smiliar vein before you start experimenting too much.
It's not a rule though. I know I say these things and the creative temperament's response is why should I have to do it that way? Who is Josh to boss me around?
And the other side of the coin is writers asking me what I did to get positioned as I am. So I explain what I did. Which might or might not work for someone else.
Josh wrote: "Blaine wrote: "Josh wrote: "But again, when you're trying to build a backlist and buid a readership, you want to focus on branding, so you don't necessarily want to try a ton of wildly different th..."And we really thank you for your advices, Josh! There is certainly very few successful authors who are as generous in helping new writers as you. :)
Mod
Okay, Josh, on another note, if you have basically two different (for me, obviously Oh, I guess my question is: What am I doing? I realize you have no answer for that. Just say something wise and I'll accept it.
Mod
You mean sequels or just more in the same vein?
Josh wrote: "Anne wrote: "Okay, Josh, on another note, if you have basically two different (for me, obviously straight uh, gay contemporary, no paranormal and futuristic sci-fi) and people are asking you for so..."Both. But sequels seem to be the pressing question.
Mod
I think this is a relatively simple question because you're probably going to do both, right? Assuming you liked the characters enough to follow their story?
So it depends on which story is being published first because you want the follow up story as soon as possible -- although if we're talking a novel, you have 9 - 18 months before the momentum of that sequel starts to fade.
If they both came out around the same time, then you go with whichever sold better.
But the most important consideration is which story are you ready to tell? Is one of them burning a hole in your mind? That's the one to go with. Whichever one is clearest in your mind, the story you're ready to tell, that's the one I'd go with.
Josh wrote: "You can't be that rigid about it. You have to write what you're moved to write.At the same time, I think it's wise to get a few things out there in a smiliar vein before you start experimenting too much.
It's not a rule though. I know I say these things and the creative temperament's response is why should I have to do it that way? Who is Josh to boss me around? "
Oh, you can boss me around any time. I do understand what you're saying. And I follow your advice as best as I can :)
I guess with me it's that I had three completely different first drafts lying around already (and I'm not even couting all the unfinished stories that I might go back to one day), one of which I hope to one day publish as a YA novel (not m/m and it has no sex *shocking* though it does have an m/m secondary pairing.)
Out of the three I just chose one to edit. I could have chosen the only fantasy novel, but I went for the SF, because I wrote that earlier and I knew it was a more polished first draft than the fantasy one is.
So, my choice wasn't necessarily experimental, though I'm not sure I'll write another SF novel soon, because I feel I'm getting better and better at the world and culture building, that I'll be very happy in the fantasy genre. Of course, most of my novels do include murder ...
Cleon wrote: "And we really thank you for your advices, Josh! There is certainly very few successful authors who are as generous in helping new writers as you. :) "
I second that!!! Definitely :)
Your advice is thoroughly appreciated.
Josh wrote: "So it depends on which story is being published first because you want the follow up story as soon as possible -- although if we're talking a novel, you have 9 - 18 months before the momentum of that sequel starts to fade."Okay, actually THIS is what I needed to hear.
Mod
I was reading a post where someone was talking about putting 30 novellas out in a year. Never mind the burn out that would surely result from that, the quality of work would have to be minimal.
Q&A with Josh Lanyon
Books mentioned in this topic
The Charlie Factor (other topics)Don't Look Back (other topics)
Don't Look Back (other topics)
Don't Look Back (other topics)
Just Making Out (other topics)
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I love all AE sex scenes and particularly the first ("there's the off button"), the one after not-quite-electrocution in AE3, fraught with tension, and of course the first after the two year gap in AE4.
I get really really bored with books that apparently need several sex scenes per chapter, all on the lines of science kits "Fit round peg into round hole, agitate. Try different hole and/or different peg, agitate again (remember to add sounds). Repeat as necessary (adjusting angle and speed to taste) until desired result is achieved"
I am so much more interested in the emotions behind it, or the emotions preventing it.