Terminalcoffee discussion
Helping You To Know The News
>
Lookit that, they don't need medication after all!
date
newest »
newest »
I don't have kids but it seems to me that "interactive response to behaviors" is the same thing as, you know, parenting.
Stop it Mary, we aren't going to allow parenting to take over for drugs - you're talking crazy here. :-)
This is always a tough, tough call. I know parents I trust who swear that medication has done a world of good for their kids, and I know parents who have kept their kids off meds and that's worked out well for them. I also don't want to assume that parents with kids on medication haven't tried some of the strategies mentioned here. I'd do everything I could to keep my kids off meds, although, in full disclosure, I started taking some myself and they've made a world of difference.
I wasn't trying to imply that all drugs are bad RA, just lets try some natural things before subjecting our kids to a bunch of drugs.
Yeah blanket statements about when or when not to use drugs are always dangerous. Not that anyone has done that here. My completely unprofessional opinion is that there are times when physicians prescribe meds when more love and focused attention using sound behavioral principles is what's needed.
Yes, I think we're in agreement here. I hope not to be on wellbutrin forever. But (and excuse me for sharing too much, if this is, honestly) I had a mental health professional tell me over the last few months that I've put so much stress on myself and been chronically depressed for so long that my brain could benefit a "kick start", if you will. And she explained the biology, etc. and that made sense to me, so what the hell, I went for it. I'll keep you posted...I've only been on the meds for 3.5 weeks, and apparently they don't have their full impact until week eight.If I'm really happy here, and start hugging people or something, you know they worked a little too well.
Real clinical depression, I believe, is almost always treated most effectively with meds of some kind. I sure hope this regimen works for you, RA.My youngest daughter has a bipolar diagnosis, and has been treated over the years with so many drugs it makes me want to just sit down and cry sometimes. Toss in an addictive personality and you get some pretty wild times. For years we dreaded to hear the phone ring at night, as she was likely to be calling from another psych hospital after being admitted with suicidal ideations or some such terrible thing.
She's mostly stable now -- but she can only dream of a life without some medication or other every day.
I think that it is also important to know the side affects of the drugs, be informed about what you are taking, don't just take them because the doc says so.
Larry wrote: "Real clinical depression, I believe, is almost always treated most effectively with meds of some kind. ..."
First, you have my sympathy. Bi-polar disorder - whether in oneself or in loved ones - is rough. Second, however, I understand that (at least in Britain) "talking therapies" are increasingly favoured for depressive illnesses. It might be worth investigating. My own experience is that new therapies don't always reach established patients.
Sorry to hear about your daughter Larry. Being afraid of the phone ringing is never fun.
I too am glad she is becoming more stable.
I too am glad she is becoming more stable.
Yes, I'm sorry to hear of this, Larry. That's a nightmare for any parent.Yes, I don't expect medication to solve all my problems. I have to change behavior as well...I have to continue with a psychologist as well. Yay insurance.
Do you want to hear something freaky? My psychiatrist, who asked me about a million questions over multiple sessions before she put me on meds, said something like "You have to remember that you’ve been chronically depressed since, from what I can tell, you were around ten years old. Everyone who knows you only knows you as chronically depressed.” So I've been thinking a lot of meaning and chemicals lately, e.g. the question as to whether or not we're more than our biology.
Thanks, guys. Yeah it's much better now. Not ideal, but better.
Barb wrote: "(hugs) for RA & Larry.Larry: It has to be hard to watch someone you love so dearly suffer the way your daughter must be. I'm very glad to hear that she's doing better, and hope she/you/your fami..."
Yes, hugs, but in a manly, straight way of course. :P
My wife's brother went through this with his wife. She suffered depression for many years. Eventually she deteriorated to a point where the doctors had her on suicide watch and were constantly tweaking medications to look for a combo that would work. She failed twice and, on her third attempt, successfully killed herself.
Her youngest had graduated high school six weeks prior. His plan had been to study medicine and help people like his mom. Instead, he dropped out of school and joined the U.S. Marines. After four years service, he was accepted at the Naval Academy, where he is finishing his first year. His sister married last year, and had a child last month.
With proper medication/help, their mother might have been able to witness the fine people her kids have become. Instead, my wife is their surrogate mom, and considers herself grandma to the baby.
Did I mention my wife suffers depression as well? We may never be free of it, but we'll fight it the best we can.
Larry - bipolar is one of the most difficult mental disorders to treat, my b-i-l suffers from it. There's no getting around the fact that it is truly a chemical imbalance in the brain. My b-i-l has been on 2 drugs for several years, and altho he is emotionally stable, the toss-up is that he now is very anxious about things that never troubled him, for instance if he is traveling he needs to get to the airport hours before, this from a guy who used to cut it to the last minute. Altho that wasn't very wise either! My deep sympathies, maybe one day soon they will make a break through with bipolar. I am in total agreement that we are truly prozac-nation, and pop feel better pills for what are normal emotions of the human condition - grief, sadness, etc. But there are many times that these same meds help people who really do need them immensely. I like that RA's doc didn't rush to put him on drugs, but waited and listened first. And absolutely - when someone has always been in a chronic state of depression wow does it help to get that kick-start, which in turn helps a person to have a clearer mind to dig deep and work with a therapist because it IS work!
I can say that from personal experience, RA, and finally I was able to resolve and move on from what was basically post-traumatic disorder of growing up with a bipolar mother. So yay for you!
BUT as for ADHD, oh that makes my blood boil! I know I've mentioned how Jake's k-1 teacher and school nurse wanted him on drugs. Part of the problem is that schools rush into academics far too early these days, when I was in K we sang songs, played games with letters and numbers. Now children are required to sit still and listen for long stretches of time that far exceed a typical 6 year old development, let alone a highly kinesthetic child.
Yet at the same time, Jake's close friend is truly ADHD and is so helped by drugs.
Well, you won't like what they are considering at least in WI then Lori. They are considering making High School a 3 year experience for the majority that can accomplish this, instead of having the Seniors taking a year of no meaning classes because they have met the requirements for graduation already. They would then take some of the savings from this cutback, and put it more towards early childhood education. A lot of school districts around here already have four year old kindergarten.
I think serious chemical imbalances that affect one's way of life in strongly negative ways, that can be helped through medication, should be. As someone with ADD, though, I'm glad I was never put on medication for that. I put myself on it for a period of time towards the end of college, and I hated it - Aderall, however, is a great party drug if you want to use it for that...
i have a few close friends who have been helped a lot by medication. one had to be admitted when she was 15. that same year my teachers finally discovered something was not right with me. i had been depressed for some years, but didn't know how to communicate it, except to my equally fucked-up friends. that one of my teachers accused me of being anorexic didn't help. i had lost some weight, but my doctor told me i didn't have to worry about that and to forget about what my teacher had said, it was just a symptom of me being depressed. i got a therapist, a very nice woman, lied to her and spent a half year convincing her i was ok. at that time i felt better than i had felt in years, just because i had people to talk to now. i have never received medication for any of this, but i would probably have refused it anyway.
I can say that from personal experience, RA, and finally I was able to resolve and move on from what was basically post-traumatic disorder of growing up with a bipolar mother. So yay for you!Yay! Lori, we're "post-traumatic disorder from our childhoods" buddies. I'm serious. I have the same diagnosis.
I know I've mentioned how Jake's k-1 teacher and school nurse wanted him on drugs.
This should neeeeever happen. I tell my students this in just about every class. School personnel should never, ever say kids should be on medication. You need a doctor for that recommendation. Also, with "response to intervention" special ed labels, etc. should be a last resort.
Mod
I think there is a distinction between an adult with depression or bi-polar disorder who can say "yes I have a problem socializing or saying no" or whatever vs. a six year old who is put on medication.
I just am super wary of medicating children, when we're just starting to realize how much brain development occurs after age 12 and before 21. Not to mention the constant changes happening before puberty, even. Throw "medicine" into the mix, and I fear we're causing irreparable harm to these children.
My opinion is based on my cousin, who was determined to have ADD around 1st grade, when his parents were divorcing and NOBODY was giving him the attention or structure he so desperately needed. So he acted up and out and all he got in return was an orange bottle of dope.
One med led to ten more, all before high school. I think it affected his brain development, his social development, his reasoning abilities, rationalizations, everything.
Perfect story, Sally. I think it's important not to conflate ADD meds with depression/anxiety meds, though. The ADD stuff really fucks with the brain and general biology in different ways; the drugs are literally very similar in make-up to a number of illegal amphetamines (compare the ingredients), which is exactly why they are great party drugs. There is very little difference between the effects of adderall or ritalin and those of meth or coke; including the sexual side effects.And really, the ADD meds teach kids how not to think on their own, while a kid with anxiety getting medicated is actually getting help to think on his own.
Mod
Mod
I observed one session in which a therapist deliberately invoked feelings of guilt in the same blond 5-year-old who told the puppets “When bad things happen, I do feel bad.” Seated at a table with his mother, he turned to greet a therapist carrying a tray with two teacups, one elaborately painted. She told him that they were to have a tea party, pointing out her favorite teacup and describing the time it took to decorate it. “I’ll let you use my favorite today,” she beamed. As he gingerly took the rigged cup, its handle snapped off. His face darkened. The therapist lamented the break, ostensibly distraught, and excused herself from the room. The boy’s mother, guided via earset by a therapist watching through a two-way mirror, helped her child work through and resolve his feelings.
“Do you feel like you’re a bad boy?” his mother asked. Most parents want to distract their kids from negative emotions rather than let them process the feelings. “They want to wipe it away and move on,” Luby says. In this session, the mother was instead encouraged to draw the child out.
The boy nodded tearfully. “I feel like I’m going to go into the trash can,” he said.
“Who would put you in the trash can?” his mother asked.
“You would,” he replied in an accusatory voice.
“I would never do that,” she said. “I love you. Accidents happen.” The boy seemed to recover, and they chatted about her earrings, which he flicked playfully with a forefinger. Then his face drooped again.
“Are you mad at me?” he asked, and then added, almost angrily, “I never want to do this activity again.”
“You’re not a bad boy,” she consoled him. Often, parents don’t realize that their children experience guilt or shame, Luby says. “In response to transgression, they tend to punish rather than reassure.”
“I am a bad boy,” the boy said, ducking under the table. “I don’t think you love me now.” He started to moan from the floor, whimpering: “I’m so sad. I’m so sad.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/mag...
I'm so grossed out by our country's over-reliance on pharmaceuticals to solve all ills. Now studies come out (as if revelatory) that simple interactive response to behaviors has the same effect on ADHD and ADD as Ritalin. Surprise!