Outlander Series discussion
Archived
>
Echo- Changes in Jamie and Claire
date
newest »
newest »
Maybe all three of them have an orgy. Hey… it’s Diana writing the book not us. She has done a pretty good job pointing out that gay’s existed, a woman with two husbands, incest, etc… now they have an orgy! :p
Heather wrote: "Maybe all three of them have an orgy. Hey… it’s Diana writing the book not us. She has done a pretty good job pointing out that gay’s existed, a woman with two husbands, incest, etc… now they have ..."Oh my gosh, I never even though of that, but I could totally see it happening! Haha ;-)
Eeeeewwwwww! No way! Claire might....but I don't think Jamie would. I think Claire might be a little bit of a nympho. I like LJ but I want him to have his own love...not Claire's....or Jamie's for that matter. :) I bought the LJG books and I am liking him more and more...the guy has a sense of humour and I like that...plus he's an honorable guy...even if he is a sodomite...lol. This is coming from an almost 66 y/o old school white Southern woman. It is a big stretch for me to like a gay guy...but I am finding I really do! Go figure...I'm not a homophobe afterall.And yes, me too...for seeing Ian as the next Jamie. I'm not that into Brianna and Roger...I like them but I don't see them being the main focus in the future....but I do see Ian there. There is just something about those 18th Century men huh? :)
Lol Sharon. Both Kimberley and I love LJG. We never would want anything but Jamie and Claire together. I just like to shake things up a little but I would LOVE LOVE to read Diana write in that twist. Gosh I am smiling just thinking about it! :pIf you are reading the LJG books now, have you got to the part when LJ found Percy with another man? What is your review on that? I am not a "homophobe" in any way but Diana does drop my jaw!! :)
I'm just now finishing my Outlander re-read. It's been slow going, because I'm reading it with a friend who doesn't have a lot of reading time. But, I'm finally finishing it next week for sure so I can get on to the LJG books. I'm so excited!!! :-DI really think Diana has it in her to write a 3some, but reading reading the Book 8 excerpts it seems Jamie is so blazin' mad at LJG I don't know if he would do it. But, you never know...you could be on to something! ;-P
Yes! I read that part already! I thought it was funny but sad too! And, now that I am reading his books and learning to love him...it doesn't bother me that much that he and Claire had sex. Heck, Jamie admitted that he wasn't a monk and he had sex with Mary McNab, Geneva (even though he didn't want to)and maybe even some others...he has never said definitely but he alluded to it a couple times...so in my opinion he shouldn't be too mad about LJ gettin' it on with Claire...after all...they thought he was dead and they both love him and were grieving for him....I can see it happening very easily...and...as I said Claire in my HMO is a bit of a nympho. I just can't see Jamie in a threesome...maybe with two other women but not with CLaire and LJG....he is too 18th Century.
I can't see Jamie having a threesome- especially not with another man after what BJR did to him. I think he would kill someone if they tried to "bugger" him. Sharon- I'm kind of with you on the Bree and Roger thing. I like them a lot, but I LOVE Ian, I think he is awesome. I guess it is just because he is so like Jamie... I would love for DG to write a series around him :)
I'm with you Sharon and Samantha--I LOVE Ian!!! I would love to see the story continued with him.
Possible spoiler alert!!!! So afraid of spoiling it for some!Samantha...you are so right...Jamie has been buggered all he will tolerate! However, for Willie he was willing to engage in it with Lord John...had LJ taken him up on it....however...that demon might have come back and Lord John might have gotten the brunt of it! LOL...it wouldn't have been pretty. That scene with Claire exorcising it at the Abbey (I forget which book now) was a heart stopper in my opinion...what a scene! DG amazes me!
Yep, Ian is like Jamie for sure. He is young but budding with the sensuality of Jamie...I think he wants to be like Jamie even though he loves his own Dad I think he looks to Jamie as a father figure for sure. Heck...Jamie HAS been a Dad to him especially in America and has molded his personality and in a way his spirit. Willie may come to the forefront in that way too...especially in future books. He has it in him to be a great and honorable man like Jamie and heck Lord John has done a great job raising him I think. There may be lots of tension between Willie and Ian in the future....I think...and it will be great to watch....er ....read. But, they will come to terms with one another I bet! :) I mean...Willie really is Jamie's son....I think DG will give us some great reading concerning Willie in the future.
Sharon have you read Echo in the bone yet?I want to make a comment about the offer that Jamie made LJ regarding taking care of Willie. But if you haven't read Echo yet it might spoil something. Nothing really big, but an explaination.
I have not read EITB. I am happily stalled at DOA. But I must say, after reading many of these comments, I'm really doubting that I even want to anymore!! It's sounds like my beloved characters are being corrupted!
There were a few disappointment for me, but the pleasures far outnumber them. So feel safe reading on!
I agree with you Dorothy, this is my favorite series.
Dorothy, yes...I have read EIOB. Did I miss something? I have only read it once :) but have read the others 3 times...I think...maybe 4 :)Ladyhawk...read on....you won't be disappointed. It is a heartrending moment...IMHO.
Spoiler alert!!! If you have not read ABOSAA stop!!!!Sorry Sharon, I'm pretty sure the scene that I'm thinking about is in ABOSAA. Claire asked Jamie if he was ever afraid that LJ would take advantage of Willie. That's when Jamie tells Claire that he only propositioned LJ with sex in exchange for caring for Willie as a test of LJ's character. He said if it turned out that LJ took him up on the offer, he would have pummeled LJ and never would have let him care for Willie. So he never intended to be buggered by LJ in the first place.
Oh! You are so right! I had forgotten that! I've gotta go back and read that again! Do you remember where in ABOSAA it is?
Samantha wrote: "I was totally shocked when Claire and LJG slept together- not so much the marrying, but the consumating the marriage multiple times was just shocking. I don't even think it totally sunk in when I r..."I didn't read it as multiple times. Once really and then
an "easing" or whatever it was called. I think Jamie is angry, but has learned to find out what is going on before taking action. To me thinking of a threesome for them is so out of character and their morals that it isn't even funny.
They had sex once then she gave him a 'hand job, knob job' LOL whatever you want to call it. Maybe it was the doctor in her :)
Sharonh wrote: "They had sex once then she gave him a 'hand job, knob job' LOL whatever you want to call it. Maybe it was the doctor in her :)"Sharon you crack me up! HAHA :-D
Well, glad I haven given you a giggle! :)
Sharonh wrote: "Oh! You are so right! I had forgotten that! I've gotta go back and read that again! Do you remember where in ABOSAA it is?"Dorothy wrote: "Spoiler alert!!! If you have not read ABOSAA stop!!!!
Sorry Sharon, I'm pretty sure the scene that I'm thinking about is in ABOSAA. Claire asked Jamie if he was ever afraid that LJ would take ad..."
Dorothy, absolutely right! Sharonh, I do remember: it is the scene when Bobby Higgins first comes to Fraser's Ridge carrying, amongst other things, a letter by LJG in which he asks Claire via Jamie to "examin him (Bobby)... I wonder whether she might suggest treatment for his other ills" (see chapter 8). In the next chapter (The Threshold of War, page 92 paperback) you will find the scene as described by Dorothy. Enjoy re-reading it!
OOOOOH! Thanks...heading to my book now to check it out!
That's what I continue to hear. And eventually I will complete it. Just not at the non-stop reading frenzy of the first 3 books! Thanks for the encouragement though!
Sorry, I was vague- yeah they had sex once and she gave him a hand job once, which is a form of sex. Regardless- it wasn't just the one drunken night.
I think it was an accurate reaction for Jamie to wonder why the cripple and not him. He never thought Claire would comeback and he has always given everything he had for his people. He couldn't understand why she couldn't give herself to him when he had given so much of him to her (took her beating at the castle so long ago).
I thought that too Gerri - I'm mean Jamie's so hot and I'm sure he's aware of how women react to him. And to have Leghair cringe when he touched her but find someone who other women might not find as attractive more sexually compatible, I'm sure it was a really honest human reaction.
Niffer wrote: "I've read the comments on here about Echo feeling diconnected and over-researched, and I agree. I enjoyed the last 1/4 of the book up until the Claire LJ thing!!!Did anybody else feel like ther..."
I agree. That darn scene(s) totally ruined the book for me. It was SO un-Claire-like, I thought.
Actually it didn't ruin the book for me. I am not a LJ fan by any means but I can understand the desperation both of them could feel. Claire knowing LJ must love Jamie as much as she did, beside she did find him very attractive on the Porpoise when she was tending to the sailor with the plague in Voyager. They said they liked each other before they found out who was who.
Kimberly wrote: "Heather wrote: "Maybe all three of them have an orgy. Hey… it’s Diana writing the book not us. She has done a pretty good job pointing out that gay’s existed, a woman with two husbands, incest, etc..."There is no way IMHO that Jamie would participate in an orgy..however he did tell her (don't remember which book it was in)when he stayed out all night with the Prince that he "wanted to have sex with THEM" I think that was what he said...maybe someone can refresh my memory but now that I think of it...he was mad and defending himself and said something to the effect "Do you want to know if I wanted to rut with them????? Yes, I did." So...Jamie might could be enticed to participate. But, if I were Claire OR Jamie...I don't think I could stand to see the love of my life with his hands and other body parts on another person or another persons hands or body parts on him! That would not turn me on at all. There'd be teeth, hair and eyes everywhere not to mention some dislocated fingernails!
Sharonh wrote: "Kimberly wrote: "Heather wrote: "Maybe all three of them have an orgy. Hey… it’s Diana writing the book not us. She has done a pretty good job pointing out that gay’s existed, a woman with two husb..."Agree, no orgy please...
I think what you are referring to is in DIA when Jamie watched two women getting it on... that would explain the "them".
Yep, I think that was it! I am re-reading DIA right now. I have been skipping around, finding my favorite parts. I was in Outlander last night and moved to DIA this morning. :)
I should probably clarify my opinion--I don't want to see an orgy nor do I think it's very likely. I was responding to Heather's earlier comment when she threw out there that with Diana anything is possible. I agree with her there since there hasn't been a subject Diana has shied away from yet.
I don't think an orgy would come up in the books. Not with Jamie and Claire who knows about LJ. I think Jamie is a very sexual person, ya think, and he was aroused like any guy would be with a scene such as that but he wouldn't engage in an orgy. Call me silly if you want. I agree Diana doesn't shy away from any subject but I sure hope if she does have such scenes she puts them in LJ which I don't read.
Is he ever sexual!!!!! Drooooool. :) Maybe it was like watching porno for him...lol.
Samantha wrote: "I was totally shocked when Claire and LJG slept together- not so much the marrying, but the consumating the marriage multiple times was just shocking. I don't even think it totally sunk in when I r..."Claire was contemplating killing herself, she was wigged out on Laudenum.... remember in BOSAA where jamie says if he was gone that Claire shouldn't hurry to follow him....anyway, I think Jamie will forgive her, especially if she actually explains a bit of it to him... Jamie is a smart man and knows that the passion he and Claire share cannot be killed be death, he talks about that too.... I believe Jamie would only be shattered if a) their affair was an ongoing thing which it wasn't and b) if he felt Claire loved LJ, which if she does it is as a dear friend. She is just trying to get by - Jamie is her breath and I don't believe Diana will allow this to separate them or screw up their relationship at this stage in the game... she said she set out to write a 50 year marriage - this relationship has transcended time, battle, death and "significant others" which is all you can say for them - It's Jamie and Claire all the way and they both know that there is nothing or no-one else for either of them - and they are part of each other forever.
Carolyn wrote: "Samantha wrote: "I was totally shocked when Claire and LJG slept together- not so much the marrying, but the consumating the marriage multiple times was just shocking. I don't even think it totally..." They did not consummate the marriage multiple times either, just the once, just when she was extremely drugged on laundenum and looking at her scalpels, deciding whether to use them on herself - and one other time she helps LJ out so to speak, because she would feel "unfaithful"....she runs at jamie like a magnet and they are like breath to each other.... i truly don't think he'll go ballistic on LJ in the next book regarding Claire, because he'll get the situation - that's the thing about Jamie, he truly is a worldly, magnanimous and extremely intelligent man... he knows how Claire feels about Lord John and he certainly knows how she feels about him..she risked her life to come back to him and as a strong person has given much to be with him...in the end that will prevail I believe...Diana has brought us too far with them
Well said Carolyn. I cannot wait for book 8!!!!!
Carolyn, nice analysis on the situation. That's how I feel about Claire too. However, LJ character perplexes me. I don't know what to think of him. Even when he explained to Claire about his lover "the cook" (don't remember his name) and used the wild deer as metaphor. I think he has good intention in this but at the same time -- can't help but to think that he also took advantage of Claire. AHHH!I didn't read any of Lord John Books. May be, I should? So I can understand him a little.
The cook is introduced in the short story DG wrote for the large book of short stories "Warriors". The story is about LJ's role in the Battle of Quebec with Wolfe. I don't think he took advantage of Claire. I think he was honestly offering her comfort and hoping to find alittle for himself at the same time. That one thing lead to another was an accident not premeditated. He really is not a bad guy. I did find reading the LJ books helpful in understanding how he thinks and why he reacts to certain situations the way he does.
I apologize again about the "multiple" wording above.I don't think LJG took advantage of Claire. I don't see him taking advantage of someone he cares about- he is just too good of a man.
I think Jamie will forgive Claire and LJG but I think it is going to be a little ugly before he does. Look at the excerpt Diana posted... I don't think he would let LJG get killed but he isn't going to just let him off the hook either. I honestly can't imagine what he will do to Claire. I don't think he'll get violent or anything but I just have no idea what his reaction is going to be.
I don't think LJ took advantage of Claire either. He was grieving as much as she was....and he married her to keep her safe AND Fergus, Marsali and their kids too! I can't wait to see what Jamie says to Claire when they eventually get to talk. I bet he gives her an earful though. Does anyone know when Book 8 is supposed to be out? The anticipation is building day by day!!!!!
I think the best guess for Book 8's release is 2013. Diana said it takes at least 3 1/2 - 4 yrs. all said and done for an Outlander book to be published. Ugh, is that a long time though! I am re-reading the series now and I have the LJ books to read still so at least I won't be missing J&C TOO much the next 3 years ;)
I really did not like AEITB. I felt that there was no were near enough Jamie and Claire- they are truly the reason I read the series. I really like LJG as a character but I think he was a little overwhelming in this book, and I thought that William was boring and not necessarily the brightest crayon in the box...
I agree that Ian is definitely the next Jamie, and I would read a book soley about Ian before I read a book soley about William.
Claire and Jamie have definitely changed, but then again, people DO change as they get older and have more life experiences. I think that DG has done a very good job of showing how they change throughout their life. I think that Claire absolutely loves Jamie as much as he does, and it is evident to the reader when she is the narrator, I just think she has a harder time expressing it. She actually says that at one point in the series- I can't remember when.. but she says somethinig about how she loves him even though she knows she doesn't say it often enough, but that she just wasn't raised that way.
I truly hope that the next book has more Jamie and Claire in it and less of everyone else. I am excited to see how they overcome Claire having sex w/ LJG.