Fans of Interracial Romance discussion
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What Turns You OFF When Reading an Interracial Romance?
Oh I dont think most readers want a book that mirrors their life too closely lol. No point. But some identifiable elements are often nice. I think we all appreciate variety. But there is always that oooooone element that makes a book sing for some of us. Its different for everyone. I love all kinds of romantic fiction but at my core I can see a some earmarkers that seem to resonate with me no matter the other details when I look at my all time faves. I can usually identify with something about the heroines on my favorites list.
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Writing words to live by. :-)
Danielle The Book Huntress (Angels Weep For Goodreads) wrote: "But I do get why readers feel left out when they have a whole array of books and none of the characters look like them or share anything in common with them ..."Danielle, I think this is a good point. I'm cool with all kinds of heroines (and heroes). But when the world they live in contains nothing but Barbie clones like a Father Knows Best episode (oops, did I just date myself?), it's infuriating. There are few places in the United States or most of the western world where there's not a variety of skin tones, cultural habits, dialects, attitudes, classes, etc. In that respect, I want to see a real world.
I just have to go off topic again just to say how much I love all you smart sexy chicks.
message 558:
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The FountainPenDiva, Old school geek chick and lover of teddy bears
(new)
So many great comments and a reminder why I adore all of you! A writer really couldn't ask for a more passionate and loyal fanbase.As a lifelong bibliophile, many of my favourite characters look nothing like me. Hell, some of them aren't even the same species, lol. And yet they have traits that resonate with me on some level. With IR romance--in particular BW/WM (or other non-black male pairing)--it's sort of the personal crossing into the political/social for me. It's not just a long time coming, but a chance to be "that heroine". Oh I'm totally idealistic about this genre, no doubt about it. Yes at the end of the day I want the swoon-worthy story that makes me hate the moment I reach the last page. But I also want to see us transcend all the (wrongheaded) negative social baggage attached to black women, INCLUDING our skin tones, hair types and body types. We deserve to be celebrated in all our absolute fabulousness and if we don't do it, no one else will.
I said it before, we don't have to follow the trends. We're so awesome we can SET them.
LethalLovely~I'll Tell You My Sins & You Can Sharpen Your Knife wrote: "Guinevere wrote: "I'm wondering, has anyone had any complaints about the diversity with the love interests? I'd love to see some mixed race heroes since obviously we see a lot of mixed race heroine..."To be honest, finding IR outside of the BW/WM scheme seems difficult. I'm not speaking for everyone obviously. But from my experience, a good majority of the IR I've seen has been that particular pairing. I have no problem with that pairing honestly. However, I admit that it is nice to see other couples besides just that one. Just for the simple fact that black/white aren't the only interracial relationships. It's great to see other types of relationships represented or shown.
LethalLovely~I'll Tell You My Sins & You Can Sharpen Your Knife wrote: "dizzy-and-bookish wrote: "I probably already brought this up but I really don't like the food/chocolate comparisons. They just don't sit right with me, and kind of carry even a sense of racism IMH..."Yeah. Like I know everyone doesn't share my opinion, and that's fine, I understand. But the food describers just feel like they're oversexualizing the heroine, if that makes sense. Like it feels like they're going beyond giving her sexuality or space to want/enjoy sex. This is especially since some of the time these describers are used in the POV of the hero. It just feels like she's becoming a sexual fantasy or object to him, not a partner. She becomes something he has to have, not because he's actually interested in her but because she is something he has to " try ".Hope that all makes sense. But yeah, that's just how I feel.
TheFountainPenDiva wrote: "@Paganalexandria: Well, there's Suzanne Brockmann with Sam/Alyssa (one of her most popular and most requested pairings) so I don't see a BW/WM couple as a kiss of death. In fact, a smart mainstream..."Thanks. :) It's just something I was thinking about. And it is in mainstream romance as well as the sub-genres.
Tina wrote: "@dizzy - I think your analysis re: sex and desire seen through the hero lens is very astute. I think it is part of the larger of issue where some romance novels sometimes feels like a big ol' pile..." Thank you!! I find nothing wrong with a heroine calm and aware of her own sexuality. I love that! But I just feel like a lot of the time their sexuality doesn't belong to them but to the hero. Even if the hero awakens that in her, still show her sexuality is still her own.
Wow!!! Where do I start....I decided to scan through the many comments on this topic before I posting a comment. First off the IR genre is one of my favorites(particularly BW/WM) to read. Personally I don't care if the heroine has long straight hair short cropped hair an afro braids or natural hair nor do I care if she is dark brown skinned as me or light skinned like my sister or if she is a size 5 or 16 all I care about in the story is making the characters have substance and chemistry and making the story realistic that's just me. I do not care for an IR read that emphasizes on the cultural difference repeatedly which I saw mentioned in several of the previous comments. In some instances I think some IR authors focus on the race issue between the two characters simply because in reality race is still an issue in our society today I just think some writers have not figured out how the balance the scale so that the race factor doesn't overshadow the base of the story. A big turn off for me is seeing the same cover models being used over and over on different IR books I have passed on books simply because of this issue. Another one of mine is when the author has the male character speaking with a slang as if he is down or something just because he is with a black woman. For the most part there are some really good authors in the IR genre who does an excellent job of creating great material for us to read and no matter how hard each and everyone of the work to put out quality books for their fan base at the end of the day you can't please everyone. Their work can receive a 5 star rating yet there is still going to be someone who has a problem with it. So writers keep on writing so we readers can keep on reading.
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A-W wrote: "Wow!!! Where do I start....I decided to scan through the many comments on this topic before I posting a comment. First off the IR genre is one of my favorites(particularly BW/WM) to read. Personal..."Well said,I have to agree because your 5 could be my 1, and their both right. Like it's been said above, by posters more eloquent than me, we all love and have a passion for the Interracial Romance sub-genre. Some of us (me included) are just in more of a tough love mode than others. lol
A-W wrote: "Wow!!! Where do I start....I decided to scan through the many comments on this topic before I posting a comment. First off the IR genre is one of my favorites(particularly BW/WM) to read. Personal..."Well said, I learned the hard way that you can't please everyone. You also can't count on making your current readers happy with every book even though they may have adored all your previous books. When it comes to reading, it truly is all based on personal preference of the reader as to how the book will be well or negatively received even if you manage to get everything right with characterization.
I've had some hits and misses. Some that sadly weren't given a shot because of assumptions of subject matter, but that's their loss. Many of writers weren't understood or accepted until long after they were dead and gone.
The letter I would write to my first book self would say...
Dear Ree,
You're finally living your dream and you're a published writer. Actually, it won't be like you dreamed. There are so few that achieve that level of greatness you've seen by the blessed few. It might have been different if you had chosen a different genre of books, but no, that's not why you started writing in the first place is it?
You need to start growing thicker skin now. Your first disappointment will come when fellow writer you started out with in your writers group becomes published first and make you eel like you're not good enough for her to meet you for lunch and get to know you in person. It will be okay, she will apologize for it later after you become published too and she discover the same thing that you will. One book does not a successful writing career make. Unfortunately, the hurt you felt will make it impossible to allow her into your true circle of author friends.d
You currently have such great hope that you will be a big writer some day, but I will tell you now the vow you made to write IR romances only keep you grounded in your career because it will take longer than you can imagine for named agents and publishers to catch on.
The first agent you contact will tell you bluntly she can't sell IR writers and she basically don't take on nothing but sure things, but she will put it in a polite way; as if that will make a difference. You will feel like giving up before you start only to be driven to build your own niche by doing it yourself and perseverance.
Don't stress so much. Look at all that gray, you've gained seventy pounds from it and you have no social lie to speak of. You also will have sleeping issues and medical issues to make it harder as you go along. The added stress zaps all the fun you have in researching and writing. It will help nothing but to bog down your creativity with self doubts.
Unrealistic girl, don't let the disappointments along the way stunt your growth as a writer. You will run into users, liars, and professional mistreatment of your hard work along the way.
Also to your amazement their will be unprofessional and unwelcoming behavior amongst some fellow writers you may have admired. Egos will get in the way. There will be an author who even goes off of you for posting the new release of your book in her group without permission. You did so innocently because you don't know how to play the game yet and it's not like you expected.
You will be surprised that a White author name Kate Douglas could be so supportive, helpful with advice and encourage you to go for it with you IR Elizabethan romance that had never been done before with an African American romantic lead. Even if it means I have to become the "look down upon" at the time dreaded E-book writer. She will go out of her way to let you know there is enough room in this business for me and my type of books, but I had to do the work and if their isn't a spot for me I need to create it.
Your surprise and disappointment comes when the petty jelousy come from your fellow "sisters in color". One will refuse to have lunch with you, another doesn't share ideas with you for fear you will steal their ideas, and worse a well known writing diva will call you out and embarrass you in her chat group for posting one time about your book. When you point out you only did it because you have seen other authors do it she will make it rudely clear that she knows these authors and she gave them permission, not you. Also she obviously won't want to know you. Ever.
I know you are hurt and want to chuck it all in but keep trying you will meet several Black published authors that are as welcoming as Kate had been.
Your first publisher will screw you. Your second publisher will screw you. Even your third will disappoint you after you're drawn into trusting them with your most prized book to date. It will be your first book of many to feature an Asian lead and an African American Woman. This is where you will find your niche.
No,the disappointments never stop, but you can choose to grown above it and realize for every bad person or situation you encounter in your chosen field there are hundreds that make all that nothing in comparison to the pride and joy you have in your accomplishments. You will have a fan base that appreciate your efforts, You will have author friends who welcome you into the fold.
In closing, my advice to you dear hopeful writer that you are, is that I hope you remember why you started writing. Do this before you begin each book. Remember when what you love starts to feel like it's just another job don't make yourself ill with self doubts.
Remember when you finished your 17 book--yeah, I know it seems impossible to believe that right now when you feel as if your first book will be your last-- but you will do it, and it will leave you satisfied enough that you will continue writing.
I know you doubt that right now, but look writing will be a lonely job for you. You will get to the point that no ones calls and invite you anywhere anymore since you don't show up anyway sue to writing.
Remember,you started writing to reach the ones that are looking to read the type of books you write, the way you write it, not the ones who don't like your style of writing. Write for the few, not the masses. Be happy with it or be willing to walk away from it if you're not.
Be kind to yourself,
Shiree McCarver
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Shiree wrote: "A-W wrote: "Wow!!! Where do I start....I decided to scan through the many comments on this topic before I posting a comment. First off the IR genre is one of my favorites(particularly BW/WM) to re..."Great letter. I hope you have a blog where you can post it for other beginning authors because I, for one, will tweet/forward/link/share it with all that I can reach. :) Inspirational!
CaliGirlRae wrote: "If only there were a like button, I would like your post a hundred times, Ree. :-) Thank you very much. I am also one of those writers' who believe there is enough room for anyone who dreams of being a published writer to be with. I don't worry about competition because I only competed against my last book idea.
Everyone has a different narrative voice in their heads. I feel that you can give a 100 writers the same theme, characters, and ending and still have a 100 different stories. Each writer's voice will take you through a different adventure based on that writers personal experiences and how they mentally process it to get to that conclusive conclusion.
This is why when I was starting out all my books were free reads to my yahoo group before they became published novels. I didn't fear anyone stealing my ideas it also didn't hurt my sales. Your supporters will buy your book anyway to show appreciation of your efforts and to show they want you to continue writing.
I'm pleased if I could pass forward any of my experience for you and others to find some comfort and inspiration in my external and internal struggles as a published writer.
Ree
Andrea wrote: "Shiree wrote: "A-W wrote: "Wow!!! Where do I start....I decided to scan through the many comments on this topic before I posting a comment. First off the IR genre is one of my favorites(particular..."I'd reblog it, share it, wear it as a t-shirt... Self-publishing has been an amazing adventure. I could not live without writing, I've tried and it was a very boring life indeed.
But the part I am having a hard time dealing with is the negativity. I know I should ignore it but...the reviews that don't actually say anything other than "you suck" or "this shit is boring"... or the people who judge me or my characters because they don't act the way *they* think people should act... those things make you wonder why you put your work out there.
Andrea wrote: "Shiree wrote: "A-W wrote: "Wow!!! Where do I start....I decided to scan through the many comments on this topic before I posting a comment. First off the IR genre is one of my favorites(particular..."Thank you Andrea I cut and paste it to my blog on my website www.shireemccarver.com because I think I need the reminder myself as I struggle to get through my last few chapter. Not because it's a chore but I think you mentally start sabotaging yourself when you get close to having to say goodbye to characters you're not ready to let go of yet. lol
Thank you again,
Ree
Kim wrote: "Andrea wrote: "Shiree wrote: "A-W wrote: "Wow!!! Where do I start....I decided to scan through the many comments on this topic before I posting a comment. First off the IR genre is one of my favor..."You write and put your work out there because it's all about you. You're fullfillng your dream and everyone else is going along for the ride. What I decided to do after my last book is go with my gut an dmy gut says it was one of my best books no matter who says differently.
If you allow others to judge your work and take everything to heart, you won't be writing for yourself you will be writing to please others. Kim, let them write their own books. Talk is cheap until people walk in your shoes and your shoes are already filled.
Don't put all your financial eggs in the basket of your writing and you won't feel so anxious over whether you succeed or fail. The only time I've felt desperate or upset over the sales of my books have been when I'm broke, otherwise even one sale is a victory because at least one person read it which makes me a published author.
Good luck!
Chin up, shoulder back, and now stick up the middle finger. See you feel better already.
Ree
Shiree wrote: "If you allow others to judge your work and take everything to heart, you won't be writing for yourself you will be writing to please others. Kim, let them write their own books. Talk is cheap until people walk in your shoes and your shoes are already filled." I disagree with this wholeheartedly. Yes, to some extent when you write you are writing for yourself. But when you publish and charge money for it, you are producing something for others to consume. The minute you do that you don't get to dictate how others feels about the work.
Saying "let them write their own books" and "talk is cheap" feels disingenuous and dismissive. Readers have the absolute right to react to what they are reading and feel what they want to about a book. Not having written their own books doesn't make their response to a work less valid.
Yes, personal attacks on an author are terrible and those people should be called out. But a critical or even negative response to a work shouldn't be.
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Words can hurt, but ignoring the hurtful words is the best medicine. Writers have to be strong. They have to have thick skin. A writer should never give someone their pen. Hold that pen in your hand and never let go.
Tina wrote: "Shiree wrote: "If you allow others to judge your work and take everything to heart, you won't be writing for yourself you will be writing to please others. Kim, let them write their own books. Talk..."I totally believe everyone has the right to feel however they want about any subject, as long as their more destructive words and actions aren't excused by said feeling.
That being said, I don't understand exactly why writing is held as the only art form that no one is allowed to critique unless you've meet some kind of mythical bar. I don't have to paint to be able to say I love a picture, or just don't get it. I don't have to be a prima ballerina, to look at someone else's offbeat moves to decide they can't dance. I don't have to sing like Mariah, to voice my thoughts of Britney lip-syncing shows. Yet my honest opinion as a reader, is constantly met with "you have no right to judge because fill-in-the-blank...".
Tina wrote: "Shiree wrote: "If you allow others to judge your work and take everything to heart, you won't be writing for yourself you will be writing to please others. Kim, let them write their own books. Talk..."You have a right to your opinion Tina, but self doubt can keep a writer from writing and people are too fickle to build your career around. You write it and you be honest with yourself, their will be readers because at the end that's what people want a good read.
If you're so busy trying to write to please because you know someone may buy it and even a good book don't guarantee a success because the blurb could be badly written or subject content, even a bad cover can cause people to look over a potential best seller until on person takes the chance on it and then the word of mouth spreads. My entire readership is based on word of mouth.
Yes, I listen when they tell me about errors, and I listen when they tell me what kinds of story they want, type of heroes such as more Asian leads, and the type of heroine such as a Black woman that can fight back and hold her own, powerful.
The story I write for myself and hope others will enjoy it as much as I enjoy writing it and I would like to think that is what makes me different. You will not find a cookie cut romantic read with the same old storyline in each my book with only the names have been change. You will not find a 100 page eBook that I put my name on and called it a novel. I don't like reading stories like that and I won't do it to my reader.
Words do hurt. Like the bullies in school that may have hurt you as a child. You know what yes you can ignore it , but you don't forget it no matter how thick skin you try to be. Trust me I know and some reviews are so mean, they don't make skin thick enough to not be impacted by it.
I know when I was a young woman reading was my escape away from how crappy times in my youth had been at home, sometime in school. I want to be that writer for my readers and that is why I have to writer for myself in order to be honest in my writing.
As an author it may not work that way for you, I can only speak from my personal experience.
Ree
Paganalexandria *That being said, I don't understand exactly why writing is held as the only art form that no one is allowed to critique unless you've meet some kind of mythical bar. I don't have to paint to be able to say I love a picture, or just don't get it. I suppose because the ones that critique you the hardest or leave reviews that break it into bitter pieces you eventually find out they are writing their own books. They are reviewing with the mind of a writer, they like something about it, yet they would have wrote it differently. So they able to see things that maybe even the author missed, but the point is it's that writer's vision and once it's forever out there for consumption you can't take it back or redo it for those who read it.
I'm sure someone who knew they were a better painter then say a Picasso on the wall, well you have those that gasp and think "Oh the nerve"! It doesn't mean they think they could ever live up to the success of the artist on the wall because circumstances play a big part of who succeed and who don't no matter how well the product is presented.
There has to be a bit of smug self assurance in anyone who pursue a creative outlet for a career.
What's that saying? "Some people are born with greatness and some have greatness thrust upon them?"
Mod
If a writer holds on to the hurt - that person will remain in the jail they have created. A writer should just forgive the mean person and go on with their life. A writer should never give a mean person control over their life.
Shiree wrote: "Paganalexandria *That being said, I don't understand exactly why writing is held as the only art form that no one is allowed to critique unless you've meet some kind of mythical bar. I don't have t..."Shiree, that same thing works in reverse too because the same person who knows something about the skill required to pull something off will sing those successes to the highest on high. I would think it wouldn't be good for an artist to get that invested in the praise or critiques. Especially of strangers, whose motives are a mystery anyway. This subject is kind of sensitive for me because I recently had an "incident". I have seen instances of reviews coming under fire because a low rating wasn't "explained", I've seen reviews come under fire because "too much effort was made" in explaining the low rating. You can't win unless you are a mindless drone who praises anything that has the alphabet printed on it. I understand taking personal issue with "fans" who seek your twitter of Facebook just personally jab you. I can't even entertain the "mean" police about reviews solely commenting on the books content though because it's so subjective. Especially because anything other than "It's the best ever!" is not allowed.
I loved that letter Shiree. It deserves a re-read and I appreciated every bit of it. I think readers have a right to critique a work, but what I got from Shiree's statement is that writer's cannot take criticisms too much to heart or they will never write. At some point a writer has to decide that it's their style, their work, and move on.
I took a writing course once with a coach that totally trashed my story. She told me I was doing everything wrong. My hero wasn't 'alpha' enough; my POV changed; my style was too ornate etc etc. I was so broken by it, I was convinced I was worthless as a writer. Fast forward, I took the original story expanded it into a novella, didn't make ANY or her suggestions about character or POV and sold it.
Paganalexandria **wicked juices bubbling over** wrote: "Shiree wrote: "Paganalexandria *That being said, I don't understand exactly why writing is held as the only art form that no one is allowed to critique unless you've meet some kind of mythical bar...."I can take constructive criticism, but I can't take destructive criticism. That is what I have a problem with. Have you heard of Lady Gaga fans? They call them monsters because they go around terrorizing other famous female music artist websites, fans and blogs, tweets because they think they are helping their Lady Gaga. There are authors who have the same type of fans doing the same thing. Crazy is what it is, because it reflects badly on the author.
I can't help but winder if the author is aware of their behavior, but considering the author is the same one that I mention in my letter who called me out in her group about monitoring my book without her permission. I wondered if she encouraged the behavior and that's why they went around on amazon leaving ugly reviews.
mrsbookmark wrote: "I loved that letter Shiree. It deserves a re-read and I appreciated every bit of it. I think readers have a right to critique a work, but what I got from Shiree's statement is that writer's canno..."
Thank you @mrsbookmark You hit it on the head. At some point you have to make a conscious decision to keep the review critiques you can use and let go of the rest the don't apply to you.
I'm sorry about that teacher, I find many editors have the same problem with constructive suggestions. Such as a character need to be more alpha, well that is personal, because you being the writer know your character better than anyone else. You gave birth to him.
Just like in the real world, not all men are alpha. So if you tell me my male character need to be more alpha then tell me how it's necessary to the story that he has a more aggressive take charge personality?
I totally agree with Shiree as a reader I have seen this sort of mean girl behavior(particularly in this genre more than any other) it's one thing to leave a review expressing your disappointment with how a particular story turned out or whatever issue you may have had with the book, but some of these reviews are just down right disturbing and the way some authors treat other authors who do not run in the same circles as them is truly disappointing and sad. The IR genre is so magnificent and the opportunity to take it to the the next level is as wide as the sea but some seem to have this very small vision by thinking if they cut other writers down that they won't lose the space they've created for themselves. There is plenty of room for everyone and the more positive the energy is the better it is for everyone involved readers, writers and all. My grandfather use to tell me when I was a little girl that people can only tear you down with the things they say about you or your abilities if you get hurt and give up but when you shake it off the hurt and keep move forward their efforts to tear you down worked in your favor because it made you stronger. It's totally normal to get hurt when other people trash something that you have worked so hard on and believe in so much(especially if there are other motives behind it) we are human beings with feelings, but it is never ok to let that stop you from continuing your dream to create great reading material and put it out there for others to enjoy because if the person's goal is to stop you from writing you're only giving them the power to succeed in their efforts.
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Shiree wrote: "I can take constructive criticism, but I can't take destructive criticism. That is what I have a problem with. Have you heard of Lady Gaga fans? They call them monsters because they go around terrorizing other famous female music artist websites, fans and blogs, tweets because they think they are helping their Lady Gaga. There are authors who have the same type of fans doing the same thing. Crazy is what it is, because it reflects badly on the author. I can't help but winder if the author is aware of their behavior, but considering the author is the same one that I mention in my letter who called me out in her group about monitoring my book without her permission. I wondered if she encouraged the behavior and that's why they went around on amazon leaving ugly reviews. "
Shiree that behavior right there, is the problem. I guess my automatic reaction is to go in defense mode when I hear "mean", "review", and "writing". I automatically took your original post in the worst way possible, and I'm woman enough to apologize for that. Your story sounds suspiciously like the reverse of what happened to me. Random accounts attacking any bad review of a particular book. I thought it was just me here, but curiosity made me check Amazon (only post ARC reviews there), and noticed the same fishiness. I can't claim the author is in on these shenanigans, but they are doing the MOST in her defense.
Paganalexandria **wicked juices bubbling over** wrote: "Shiree wrote: "I can take constructive criticism, but I can't take destructive criticism. That is what I have a problem with. Have you heard of Lady Gaga fans? They call them monsters because they ..."Who is this author?? I confess, I haven't read enough IR books to even begin to guess. Why on Earth would fans of one author trash other authors? It makes no sense to me.
For the authors amongst us, am I off base thinking that writing only to please yourself is a luxury most authors cant afford? I TOTALLY understand the ultimate need to purge an idea. Getting a character or a tale out of your head that just wont leave you alone until you tell it. But Im thinking the devil is usually in the details as far as what readers complain about. The only writing Ive ever done has truly been for myself (no attempt or plans to publish) but I cant help but think about the types of things I complain about and try to imagine it as a stranger's review. Most of the time, it wouldnt impact my ultimate "vision" one way or the other. Its...details. I dont see many reviews where readers are saying there are plot mistakes or issues with storyline decisions. Its almost always details. In which case, honestly why cant thise be taken into consideration as they truly shouldnt impact the overall story you're trying to tell. You HAVE to write for readers to an extent. If you want them to begin with and if you want to keep them reading your material. How is it betraying the muse to use more diverse character descriptions, check a thesaurus, do a bit more research on a career or country you're writing about, make sure your details stay consistent, dont gloss over details relevant to the outcome and dont make your leads cross lines that make them rooting for them difficult lol. Thats the stuff I bitch about.
There seem to be a whole ton of conflicting things swirling around here that I feel are being conflated but really shouldn't be.A - legitimate responses by readers to a book. This is primarily what this thread started out about. Readers responding to what does not work for them. I understand that authors can feel defensive about this. But once you release your book into the wild and it becomes a product being consumed, people get to react to it however they please. And no, I am not talking about personal or ad hominem attacks on the author here. I am talking about legitimate criticisms of the book, things like: grammar, plot developments, how the story made them feel, how much they liked or disliked the characters, factual inaccuracies, editing, typos, over-use of phrases or words, length of book -- basically anything that impacts their enjoyment of the book.
Some things a very subjective (Reader A is sick of green eyes and flowing hair, closes book in disgust while Reader B doesn't even notice that). But some things simply are not subjective at all ('there','they're' and 'their' mean different things, football doesn't have 'innings').
Some people get rather pointed and, yes, can be scathing when writing reviews. But when they concentrate on just these legitimate things and keep their observations and feelings just about the book, then they get to feel these things without it being thrown under the overall umbrella of 'mean negativity.' Not everyone is going to like everything they read and passionate readers have passionate responses.
b - personal attacks by readers, authors, and fans.
To me this is a bit of a derail on this topic, imo, because it isn't about the books per se, but rather about behavior and should be discussed separately from legitimate reviews. This is the internet and people can be incredible assholes. They can do it anonymously. They can have all sorts of agendas and motives.
There are readers who may have a beef with an author for some unknown reasons and play that out. There are also rabid fans who will descend on any less than glowing review and try to argue down the reviewer.
But it is unfair to lump these irrational responses in with honest (even snarky) critical reviews.
Right now that is the slippery slope that is playing out in the book world at large, not just with IR books. This is a huge problem with the STGRB folks and Anne Rice pointing at ANY negative review and calling it 'bullying' and 'harassment', trying to intimidate people out of reviewing. and doxxing reviewers It seeks to stifle real criticism and censor people.
Personally, I just want to read books and discuss them with people who like to read the same books I do. I don't want to have to worry about whether my reaction to a book hurts the author's feelings or whether they think I am being mean. I just want to talk about the book.
Indigo.plume wrote: "Who is this author?? I confess, I haven't read enough IR books to even begin to guess. Why on Earth would fans of one author trash other authors? It makes no sense to me. ..."
Indigo, sadly I doubt me and Shiree are even talking about the same person. Because it seems to have died down in my corner of the internet, I'm not going to link my problem with a name because I would hate for it to become another crazy moment in Goodreads' history. Sometimes I hate being an adult, and knowing better yada yada yada. lol I feel bad for some of you authors working in this environment because unlike a normal 9 to 5 there is no HR department to put some of the WTF in check. And that evilness Shiree is describing is soul crushing. There is mean girl, and then there is most likely to appear on an episode of ID channel's "Who The (Bleep)...?"
As usual, Tina is on point.And I admit I am one to give a helluva scathing review if a book leaves me feeling like I wasted my time, let alone money. I also admit that I have no problem calling out a specific problem I think the author might have (like colorism issues). I dont know the authors personally, but if I read several books by the same writer and they are all waddling, quacking and have feathers, I'm calling them ducks. I dont think thats a personal attack, just an opinion or observation even at that point.
Savannah- Quad Motherin' Book Readin' Diva wrote: "As usual, Tina is on point.And I admit I am one to give a helluva scathing review if a book leaves me feeling like I wasted my time, let alone money. I also admit that I have no problem calling o..."
Savanah, I tease you about it, but God knows I have a tendency to be fly at the mouth, and fingers at times myself. I have a passion for books, and sometimes it's a cause for celebration, and other times it's maddening. When I love something, it can sometimes be stressful writing a review expressive enough to let others in on the joy, without spilling the secrets that made it so special. There are certain authors, that if they knew how much proselytizing I've done of their work, would think I deserve a commission check lol. The other side of that is anger at certain books and myself for the wasted time. I write reviews that can be brutally honest about the issues and concerns I had. My one concession about my bad reviews, is usually only posting them here. I review almost everything read here because Goodreads is my book journal, chronicling all my book experiences good, and bad. I'm completely selfish in that space, and defend it harder than an NRA member's stance on 2nd Amendment rights. That said, I'm not trying to kill anyone's hustle so I don't go out of my way to post bad reviews on seller sites. It's why I've become more cautious about doing ARCs because I don't want to lie or dream kill unnecessarily.
I can honestly say that I have read many IR books(BW/WM) where the heroine was described as dark skin, light skin, biracial, short hair,long hair natural hair braids the women were thin, curvy, plus size tall short etc. In reality being in interracial marriages , relationships (such as myself) children are created with the some of features that many readers in this discussion group have expresses having problems with the heroine looking like. Who knows maybe the writers describing their heroines in such a way are taking it from a personal vision and adding it in their story. You never know. I'm not saying anything against readers who expressed their dislikes with this particular issue. I'm just looking at it differently.
Paganalexandria **wicked juices bubbling over** wrote: "Shiree wrote: "I can take constructive criticism, but I can't take destructive criticism. That is what I have a problem with. Have you heard of Lady Gaga fans? They call them monsters because they ..."Apology accepted Paganalexandria. No hard feelings here. I'm very long winded in my postings and my books. I call it my gift. lol Sometimes my thoughts get ahead of my point and it just comes out all wrong because saying it to people face to face to see the expression of sincerity isn't there to soften the seemingly harsh words and or judgment. So I too apologize.
Ree
Indigo.plume wrote: "Paganalexandria **wicked juices bubbling over** wrote: "Shiree wrote: "I can take constructive criticism, but I can't take destructive criticism. That is what I have a problem with. Have you heard ..."Indigo, I personally will never reveal these authors I've had run in with, or their readers that do it because it serves no purpose in my goal to be the best writer I can be. I'm am 17 books deep since all of that has been forgiven if not forgotten.
However, the authors with vicious readers are easy enough to find them because most of their mean readers like to do comparison of their favorite great writing to how bad yours suck in their reviews. lol
I know, it's so middle school considering we all write enough smut that we've proven we are all adult enough to know right from wrong behavior. However authors can't control the rabid fans with mental issues. I just try to let my readers know I appreciate their support, but I don't need to be built up by tearing other authors and readers down. Just tell me how you feel about my book that's all I'm concern about so I know what type of books to write in the future.
Ree
Ree
Savannah- Quad Motherin' Book Readin' Diva wrote: "For the authors amongst us, am I off base thinking that writing only to please yourself is a luxury most authors cant afford? I TOTALLY understand the ultimate need to purge an idea. Getting a cha..."No, Savannah, I don't think you're off base, but it work for me. It was my choice to write what I want to write the way I want to write it and take the risk of not making as much money or getting as much recognition as others.
I would love to have new readers but I like to pull readers out of their comfort zone so I know I'm not everyone's cup of tea. I tend to be too melodramatic for some, others think I have too much going on with my characters, while others think I'm being unrealistic by not making racial issues a big deal in my books unless the storyline calls for it. Oh yeah and I can't forget, I'm long winded and I have pages and pages of dialog. I do that because I love dialog. I can become the character when their is alot of dialog. It plays like a movie in my head. LOL
I'm accused of still being a purple prose writer when it's so yesterday. So yes, I had to make a conscious decision to write for myself, writer for others, or not write at all.
I learned that even though I write for myself there are a lot of women like me out here and they get my stories without me forcing my work upon them.
Ree
A-W wrote: "I can honestly say that I have read many IR books(BW/WM) where the heroine was described as dark skin, light skin, biracial, short hair,long hair natural hair braids the women were thin, curvy, plu..."I think for some of us it depends on how long we've been fans of this genre and how many books we are reading on a regular basis. Some of us are simply burnt out. Period. End of story. We came onboard in the early yeasr where that's ALL we saw and now we refuse to eat that same meal no matter how ya cook it. I've been actively seeking IR books for about 10years now, and I can honestly say, diversity has come a LONG way within the genre. HOWEVER, there still seems a sometimes overwhelming number of storylines featuring a certain type of lead. Again, its no where near as constant as it used to be. As romance first, and IR second I think this genre started out leaning so hard on the fantasy element (which explains the hoards of books that should be listed as erotica and NOT romance)that it really shined a harsh light on the disease of colorism that ran rampant in this country for AA's. That has only started to change in the last 10-15 years as far as I'm concerned. So as its changing, the diversity in the genre is changing to reflect it. When this all started there WAS a degree of "if a white man is going to want her, she's going to have to be as close to white as possible". That's ANOTHER explanation for all the erotica. Some of us AA women have felt the need to justify our desire to explore romantic attachments with other races and that lead to filing it under sexual curiosity (again, my opinion and not tryin to argue here) The skin color crap was a fallacy WE perpetuated based on our own self hatred in this country. In reality, I honestly think its pretty much the opposite and we were casting the preferences of our own onto white folks- but that's a whole other story I'm not going to get into LOL!
Overall, I agree with Ree when she said "don't put all your financial eggs into your writing basket". If its not a career, obviously you don't need to be worried about pleasing anybody but yourself. But for me I think a lot of it would be wanting people to love what I wrote and not feel ostracized or dismissed. There are authors whose work I literally ADORE, but I have forced myself to stop supporting them because they honestly don't seem to care about diversity. WHITE authors. So hell no, I'm not giving black authors a free pass for the same thing just because they are black. Its hard for me to wrap my head around the idea of putting something out for public consumption and not WANTING to please as many people as I could. Again, that's why I don't do it lol. I don't even think of that as being a people pleaser, its probably just narcissism. hehe
Savannah- Quad Motherin' Book Readin' Diva wrote: "A-W wrote: "I can honestly say that I have read many IR books(BW/WM) where the heroine was described as dark skin, light skin, biracial, short hair,long hair natural hair braids the women were thin..."Savannah, don't get me wrong, of course I WANT everyone to love my book and become their favorite author. I do care what readers think, but now I only care what my loyal readers think and those who like my style just the way it is.
I didn't get this way on my own, I got jaded by a review last year for Eternally I Do which was a 5 star book on Amazon. Well I had this woman give me a 5 which you assume she liked it until I read the interview. She broke my book down into her own comedy routine. A freakin' Joan Rivers she was channeling and not holding back the "punches" on the "punch" lines. Hurt me so bad because she gave me a 5 so I thought she liked the book. Afterwards, I cried and I had writers block for 3 months. I embarrassed myself in my yahoo group to my readers because I went on a rant taking my frustrations out on those who are supportive because I couldn't choke the crap out of the one I couldn't get a hold of for making a joke of me.
Great hate my book I'm good with that, but don't break me down or my book down in a joke because I labor over every book I do. I have an illness that causes me pain every day but because I love what I do I sit for hours, lose sleep, miss out on family dinners, outing with friends. I do hours of research for accuracy this particular book was a vampire book so I took a lot fantasy leeway I admit but I didn't want a vampire race like all that was out there because the vampire books there are too much of the same thing.
So okay don't like the book but don't turn me into a joke because I take this very serious with the best of my ability. Maybe my effort isn't as good as others due to the fact I rely heavily on God Given talent for creativity, but I'm no one's freakin' joke. I actually was considering retiring if it hadn't been for the same supportive readers from day one that I owe so much too for getting me through dark and painful times in my life such as my mother's cancer and divorce.
So yeah, we are HUMAN with human pangs and here we are a select few putting our souls on display. I'm a vocalist and I quit that because the disrespect was more personal in regards to my appearance and nothing to do with my vocal talents.
So all artist endeavors come with the exposing of your soul and trust me there is no skin thick enough to cover your feelings again after your soul has been on display for public consumption. Yet I have a need to persevere because writing makes waking up worthwhile. Sadly it's all I have.
My illness has halted all capabilities of a normal life, so here I am nearly 50 with no children, no mate, and all I have is my books, my children and for some one to turn one of my books into her daily joke, devastated me because it wasn't constructive advice. It was meant to hurt me and make those who didn't write it or haven't bother to read it to judge for themselves...laugh
So as I tell you my truths, know that I get where you coming from with your expectations, but forgive me if I have to not care in order to care enough to do the only thing in my life I love to do...simply tell a good story.
I don't need to be broken down so a reviewer can build their career as the review person readers flock to before buying a book. Yeah, writers aren't the only building careers in the eBook world on the backs of others. All kinds of new "stars" are showing up due to internet access. I do care about hard earned money investing in my dream, but I can't afford to care so much that I allow it to devastate and block my creativity again.
Ree
Okay I just discovered something that turns me off, though it might be construed a little reverse racially prejudiced. I really do not like most interracial erotic books written by white people that depict black people. There are some exceptions, but most of it is too fetish-y, and obviously not aimed at me because it tends to be beyond offensive. It's one of the reasons I could care less about my mainstream authors including us because I want to continue liking my favorites. Luckily the ones I love already that do include people of color, though not perfect, haven't made wonder about possible Paula Dean-ish fantasies of darkies serving you in pre-Civil War regalia and manners. It's one thing when another black person writes a character a way not exactly to your liking because besides colorism arguments aside, it doesn't feel like being the butt of someone's joke like Shiree said so eloquently in the post above.
Ree- Im sorry you went through that! I definitely applaud ANY outlook that allows someone to put their work out there and live with the results, good and bad. Like I said- I already know I couldnt so truly, I do understand that one HAS to develop a degree of insensitivity. Its just a tough mix....wanting to please without investing if you dont. Not for the faint of heart! My worry is always just the authors that thumb their noses at the readers and fans who voice a sincere desire to have their wish lists acknowledged and creative criticisms heard. Reviews should never turn personal. I do my best to acknowledgs wvwn ghs smallest positive aspects of a book unless I tduly found nothing redeeming in ths read. Those ars my DNF's which is my way of cutting the cord so I dont have to give a review thats over the line.
Shiree wrote: "Savannah- Quad Motherin' Book Readin' Diva wrote: "A-W wrote: "I can honestly say that I have read many IR books(BW/WM) where the heroine was described as dark skin, light skin, biracial, short hai..."I shouldn't have asked for the author's name. Sometimes I can be abominably nosey. I've learned more about the IR genre from this discussion thread than I have in months of reading them for myself. Thanks for sharing so many private thoughts, some of which stem from personal pain.
Writing is a very emotional activity. One of my college professors told me that writing is like putting your soul on paper. Criticisms meant to cut us down often do just that, so you have my sympathies for having to endure the nastiness of others. I had some negative reviews on my first book, and I still recall the way I felt when I read my first one star review. It literally made me breathless for a moment. Since then, I've had a few more negative reviews, but I stay confident by reading the positive reviews and not dwelling on things that I can't change.
This thread has definitely brought some great insights into my life. My first heroine had dark skin and long natural hair. My second heroine had lighter skin and hair, but her ethnic identity is an integral part of the story and not at all incidental. I'm working on a third book where the heroine's looks are to be determined. I picture her looking something like a cross between Alfre Woodard and a young Maya Angelou.
I've never really used too much physical description in my writing. My characterization process begins and ends with the essence of who the character is. I see each of my heroines as an allegorical figure who represents a concept that is woven throughout the story. My first heroine was kindness, and the strongest theme in the book was that she was the kindest character, but she was not the weakest (she was the strongest). My second heroine was courage, because she had to face a great deal of trauma while still having the courage to give love a chance. The third heroine is intellect, and when the hero of the story looks at her, his first thought is always of how taken he is with her absolutely brilliant mind.
As a reader, I would like to see more IR novels that delve further into the symbolic. More artistic and literary styles of writing would be great for this genre. I still enjoy the fun stories that are out there, but it would be nice to have greater variety, not just in how the characters look, but also in the quality and tone of the story telling. I would love to read the same book more than once and get something new out of it with critical thinking and discussion. That's part of the great fun of books, why not bring a little more of it into the IR genre.
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Fans of Interracial Romance
Books mentioned in this topic
Cold Warriors (other topics)A Thankful Love (other topics)
Against the Odds (other topics)
From Across the Divide (other topics)
Tears of Heaven A Love Story (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Jewel Adams (other topics)Tilly Bagshawe (other topics)
Judith Krantz (other topics)
Just speaking to something I consider a kind of...integral allure of this genre going way back to origins of contemporary romance. ..."
Yeah before discovering BW/WM books, I used to look for westerns featuring Native American women/White Men because they were the closest mainstream version out there. I was so happy happy when Sandra Kitt came along because the cowboy theme is my least favorite trope. Hell I live in Texas, if I wanted that it's easy enough to find in reality (and no thank you). lol