Holden Caufield- view of the world (page 16)

[Sydney]

Eric wrote: "The Catcher in the Rye is one of the most popular American books of all time. Yet its hero is barely a hero at all. He is disliked and misunderstood, a classic "screw-up", who does poorly in schoo..."

Eric wrote: "The Catcher in the Rye is one of the most popular American books of all time. Yet its hero is barely a hero at all. He is disliked and misunderstood, a classic "screw-up", who does poorly in schoo..."

Your description of Holden reinforces why I love him so dearly. It baffles me when people hate him. Actually I'm not baffled by it at all. People tend to hate what they see of themselves in fictionalized characters which is fascinating. Holden is honest on a level that is refreshing and startling.
You nailed it.

Thank you.
Sydney

[Kyle]

Sydney wrote: "Eric wrote: "The Catcher in the Rye is one of the most popular American books of all time. Yet its hero is barely a hero at all. He is disliked and misunderstood, a classic "screw-up", who does po..."

I agree with you, because I was a lot like Holden when I was younger; maybe if I had read it then I might have liked him.

[Cole]

Allison wrote: "I think that something traumatic happened in his life that made him develop his view of the world the way he did. Initially I thought his parents abused him or something, but then he talked about how the were nice people, so I ruled that out. My next thought was maybe he had a sibling or friend he was close with had died, and the death had major side effects on him. My last idea was his personality was like this naturally; negative and uncaring (to some degree).
I don’t think I missed a major hint or clue, did I? Can you think of any other reason? "
When he is with mr Antolini towards the end (who makes advances on him, he says "When something perverty like that happens, I start sweating like a bastard. That kind of stuff's happened to me about twenty times since I was a kid." Which hints at possible sexual abuse as a child.

[Monty J]

Sydney wrote: "People tend to hate what they see of themselves in fictionalized characters which is fascinating."

Agreed. It's like holding up a mirror ("Holden?") to people so they can see themselves.

[E.D.]

Life is shit. Life is beautiful. Holding to both views simultaneously is the trick. :}

[Mandeep]

Why do people think that Holden was in some kind of mental hospital or had any kind of problem? I had similar kind of thoughts and hated everyone in the world but that happens when you are actually realizing what the world is. But as part of growing you realize that the world/people are what they are, you cannot change that fact either in present or even for future generations. One has to find a purpose and continue the journey.

[Licha]

Mandeep wrote: "Why do people think that Holden was in some kind of mental hospital or had any kind of problem? I had similar kind of thoughts and hated everyone in the world but that happens when you are actually..."

Mandeep, I agree with what you're saying. It's been years since I read this book back in my teens, but from what I remember, Holden just saw people for what they really were. It was like a veil was lifted and he saw how phony and hypocritical people really were. I think we have all been through this at one point or another without necessarily having something traumatic happen to us. I know I somewhat became "Holdenish" after reading this book and I have nice parents.

[Monty J]

Mandeep wrote: "Why do people think that Holden was in some kind of mental hospital or had any kind of problem?"

Mandeep, if you had read the book carefully you wouldn't have asked such a question. It is well known that Holden was writing from inside a mental hospital.

(p.1) "I'm not going to tell you my whole goddam autobiography or anything. I'll just tell you about this madman stuff that happened to me around last Christmas just before I got pretty run-down an had to come out here and take it easy. I mean that's all I told D.B. about, and he's my brother and all. He's in Hollywood. That isn't too far from this crumby place, and he comes over and visits me practically every week end. He's going to drive me home when I go home next month maybe."

(p.213) "I could probably tell you what I did after I went home, and how I got sick and all, and what school I'm supposed to go to next fall, after I get out of here ["here" refers to the mental hospital],... A lot of people, especially this one psychoanalyst guy they have here, keeps asking me if I'm going to apply myself when I go back to school next September."

Elsewhere in the book Holden actually refers to the place as a "rest home," which is a polite term for mental hospital.

[Mandeep]

Thanks Monty for pointing this out.

[Monty J]

Licha wrote: "Holden just saw people for what they really were."

Another interpretation is that Holden became jaded and negative and a bit paranoid because he was suffering from PTSD (post-traumatic stress disorder) due to the trauma caused by the deaths of his younger brother Allie and the suicide of a dorm-mate, James Castle.

All of life can be viewed from opposite angles of positive or negative. "How they really were" can reveal as much or more about the observer as the subject of observation.

"Phony" and "hypocritical" are negative labels connoting judgement on the part of Holden's juvenile mind that is too inexperienced in life to have the capacity to understand why people put up a social front.

Practically every human being has a public persona they polish to show the world, when deep inside they're scared little children or have some other fear or hangup.

The irony is that Holden thinks he's being cool by calling out the "phoniness" he sees, when he's only skimmed the surface of human understanding. Until the very end of the book, when he lets down his own defenses, "practically bawling" as he sits on the bench in the rain watching Phoebe on the carousel.

"She just looks so nice," he says, "in her blue coat, going around and around."

[E.D.]

I'm always amazed at the teenager's ability to recognize and point out the hypocrisy in everyone and everything but themselves.

What a great time of life. :}

[Licha]

Monty J wrote: "Licha wrote: "Holden just saw people for what they really were."

Another interpretation is that Holden became jaded and negative and a bit paranoid because he was suffering from PTSD (post-traumat..."

Monty J, thanks for the explanation. This was one of the books I actually read in high school that was not necessarily assigned. It was by choice. It's one of those books that I really liked and it touched something in me at that age, although I must admit that I probably did not comprehend it on such a level as how you explained it. It's also been many years since and I can recall the feelings I had after reading this a lot better than what the book was about. It's one of those books I feel I must re-read to really see what I can take from it as an adult reader. I'm sure it will be completely different from what I remember. I am partly glad I read this as a teenager though, because it really struck a chord with me at the time and I felt like the book spoke to me.