Thread Of Dire Judgment

[El]

Stacey, I'm curious about your 5-stars for Wuthering Heights but only one for Interview with the Vampire. I couldn't stand Wuthering and enjoyed the Rice books when I read them (in like junior high or whatever); they kept me interested and off the streets anyway. :)

[Stacey]

El, I cannot stand Anne Rice. Her books bore me to death! I didn't like the movie either. King and Koontz are the authors that kept me somewhat out of trouble in middle and high school.:)

I'm surprised at the 5-stars for Wuthering Heights myself, as I did not expect to enjoy it the second time around! I think it all depends on what my mood when I'm reading. I can remember a time when I didn't like Austen, but I love her now!

[Kandice]

I agree with whoever said that the appeal of The Shipping News was the reality of the characters. Most people can be pretty crappy, especially if we were privy to their private thoughts, feelings and motivations. I love Proulx for that reason. He characters strike me as very, very realistic. "Warts and all" being the perfect phrase.

[Sasha]

When I compare books with people, I love when they've written reviews so I can see why they're so totally wrong about them. I always read them. Even if they're only two sentences...actually, that's kinda better than when they've written Actual Reviews with paragraphs and stuff.

I like the idea of re-reading something we hated when we were younger. I would actually do Moby Dick. I agree that we shouldn't re-read books we loved, though. Let them stay as they are.

Others have tackled Confederacy better than I could have, so I'll stay off the pigpile.

I remember liking Anne Rice when I read her, but I also remember being an idiot teenager. I also read her smut books, which confused me.

[Sasha]

Ha...Mayakda, you've read 475 books; we have six in common. And five of them are Harry Potter. I'm almost starting to suspect that we might have different taste in books.

[Juniper]

Re: reviews ~ my explanation is the same as Kari and El's. I added a lot of books when I joined last year but didn't have the wherewithal to do a whack of reviews. Plus most of the books were not fresh enough for me to give any potentially useful input. I now try to add new reviews as I finish books. I enjoy it and although I often feel someone else may say it better or more coherently, I enjoy the writing and hold a small bit of hope that something I write is of interest to someone. LOL!

Alex, "the pigpile"? Really? C'mon!! Is your reason for disliking Confederacy the same as El's? As an FYI, I got your back on the Dave Eggers debate!

I am really enjoying the fact that the exchanges here are interesting and well thought out. No one is taking personal offense and no one is being lowbrow. It is very refreshing!

[Sasha]

Yeah, actually, it's the same stuff El and Mayakda said. It's an unpleasant book about unpleasant people doing unpleasant things; I don't see the funny part. Or the smart part either.

This from a guy who watches "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia" religiously.

It's impressive that we're still having fun 328 messages later. It says a lot about everyone here being pretty cool people. Makes me really glad I found this site.

[El]

I could burp and fart a bit if you want lowbrow.

[Sasha]

And now it's dead. THANKS EL.

[El]

I'm a wet blanket wherever I go. But at least I read good things while I do it.

[El]

To bring it (somewhat) back to books, however - Jennifer, I see you have Everything That Rises Must Converge on your To-Read shelf. I suggest bumping that to the top if you have a chance. I love me some Flannery O'Connor.

[Juniper]

El wrote: "To bring it (somewhat) back to books, however - Jennifer, I see you have Everything That Rises Must Converge on your To-Read shelf. I suggest bumping that to the top..."

Oooh! I love me some Flannery too!! I am just about to re-read A Good Man Is Hard to Find and Other Stories. Ms. O'Connor is a bit of a hero to me!

[VMom]

Alex wrote: "Ha...Mayakda, you've read 475 books; we have six in common. And five of them are Harry Potter. I'm almost starting to suspect that we might have different taste in books."

Yeah, you should try to read more interesting books.
(just kidding!)

[Cait]

El wrote: "To bring it (somewhat) back to books, however - Jennifer, I see you have Everything That Rises Must Converge on your To-Read shelf. I suggest bumping that to the top if you have a ch..."

Awesome book. Flannery O'Connor single handedly convinced me that not all short stories are pointless (as I had previously believed). I'm always surprised when I see people say that they didn't like it because it was too depressing. Yeah, it's pretty freaking bleak. That's part of why I like it so much though. Life is not all sunshine, rainbows, and little fluffy white kittens.

[Cindy]

Oh man, I'm going to have to be a counter-point to Everything That Rises Must Converge - although I did give it 3 stars so that I didn't totally hate it.

Here's my beef:
The one-sided personae of the main characters. Usually I enjoy complex, deep and conflicted characters. O'Connor certainly presented plenty of conflict, but most characters were so stuck in their ways they usually couldn't rise above their short-sightedness. It's a bleak view of humanity with almost no chance at redemption. I don't mind bleak, dark, unresolved stories, but aren't people more complicated than that? Don't most characters have some identifiable spark of a softer side of humanity?

[El]

Cindy, people might be more complicated, but how often do we always get to see that more complicated side? When we're sitting on the bus or in a barber shop, we really only see one side of people - superficially. It's not until we meet them, hang out with them, break bread with them, or whatever that we get to see any side other than our first impression. Which I guess is why they say first impressions mean so much in life.

So, yes, I agree in your question that most people have some identifiable spark of a softer side of humanity, but just as in real life we don't always get to see that. I think that's what Flannery was trying to portray. She was letting the reader know that hey, it's not cool to judge someone by the color of their skin because really, look how that makes you look? I suppose you could say they're cautionary tales. At least that's how I look at it. I appreciate the grittiness of her stories because they most closely reveal the human side of everyday characters. In my humble opinion. :)

Have you (or anyone else here) read Wise Blood? It's fantastic, and an actual novel which I found to be quite a treat as I already loved her short stories.

[Kaion]

You guys drew me back in with your hilarious rants.

It's hard writing reviews. I'm really more of a conversational person- I like having a prompt or a person to talk/write to and reply and for me to clarify and reply back. Sometimes it's like pulling teeth putting together a few thoughts into something cohesive, and it's a slow process for me. Plus, I haven't figured out the balance of factual, critical, and emotional/personal information to put in them.

And if it's a popular book (and I consider anything with more than 1000 ratings popular), it can feel an awful lot like work to write something when someone else has already said just about the exact same thing already!

As for horrible/sad people being horrible/sad- I try to avoid that. It's one thing if it's well-written, but beyond that I'm looking for something that touches me or enriches my life. I like to see the characters learn something (so I can learn stuff too). I did feel terribly guilty giving Lullaby four stars because of that.

I know lots of people who don't like To Kill a Mockingbird. I thought someone had mentioned earlier on the thread about how it was simplistic moralizing, but it must have been my imagination. It's corny, heavy-handed, and doesn't really hold together well plotwise.

And high-five Jennifer on Poisonwood Bible and Life of Pi. Besides the main character being pretentious, the plot failing to suspend my disbelief, and my personal hatred of unnecessary framing devices (see Frankenstein)... He made a fight between a TIGER and a SHARK boring. I don't know why you would do such a thing, but it happened and I was bored.

(And why oh why doesn't goodreads have any easy book linkage thing like librarything?)

[El]

Kaion, I'm not familiar with librarything, but isn't the "add book/author" link above the comment box here pretty easy? Again, I don't know how it compares.

I didn't find To Kill a Mockingbird particularly moralizing during my readings of it, but I guess I can see how others might take it that way. I always had found it refreshing in its detail of a Southern town complete with lovely Southern characters (both the good and the bad), and felt it all worked well together. That and Dill, of course. Based on Truman Capote and one of my favorite characters in literature ever. Even if he was highly annoying. :)

Who here was it that said something about loving Moby Dick and how part of that might have something to do with her love of Gregory Peck? Whoever that was, I agree wholeheartedly. He could read Ulysses to me and make it seem like a bedtime story. Mr. Peck was quite the gentleman, and his performance as Atticus Finch from To Kill a Mockingbird was fantastic. One of those rare occasions where I refuse to compare the book and the movie because they're both spot-on. As far as I'm concerned anyway.

[Juniper]

Oooh, a Flannery O'Connor bust-up! Nice.

I haven't read Everything that Rises... yet so can't speak to that book. Generally though, I find her work very purposeful in the explorations of the darker side of people. I know she died very young from lupus and, prior to her death, lived many years in pain. I have often wondered about the impact her illness and pain had on her writing.

Hi Kaion! High-five right back at you!!

I am in the Mockingbird fan club (not really, just like the book) side of things and wonder about the time in which it was written affecting it's readability in current times; as far as in relation to those who don't like it, find it simplistic or corny. I again have to default to my Gregory Peck adoration here, though again, I was a fan of the book first.

Re: re-reads from our early lives - I think it is a good idea and try to do this each year. The only books I have shied away from re-reading, so far, are Fahrenheit 451 and Animal Farm. I have such unpleasant recollections of both of these novels and, all these years later, still can't get the horrid taste out of my mouth. I did tackle Heart of Darkness last year and, argh!! Sadly, I loathed it all over again.

Does anyone else feel like a doofus when they really dislike a supposed 'classic' and debate using it for kindling? I mean, I realize everyone has different tastes but how can so many share the same (good) opinion and so few be on the receiving end of stink-eye?? I have decided it is down to two possibilities: i)liars pretending they love those books too, or ii) people not speaking out more about what they really think.

[Juniper]

I do realize the irony in (potentially) using Farenheit 451 as kindling! Just in case someone was going to point it out to me!

[Kaion]

I used to feel like a bit of a doofus, but now I don't. I read some positive reviews trying to understand the reasoning, definitely. And sometimes I get it (but disagree about the worldview or the interpretation of the text). Different strokes for different folks, you know? For example, I can't really enjoy The Count of Monte Cristo, but I think it's mostly because its morality is so opposite to my own.

That's why I don't feel a particular need to (metaphorically) "burn" books- I will freely give my opinion about a book, the person has the free will to you know, read a sucky book.

(On librarything, you just type the name of the book in brackets, like thus: [The Male's-profession/role's Female relative: A Poorly Named Novel 'Cause Women are only defined by their relationships to men] within the text. If there are multiple novels, you can choose the right one from options that pop up to the right of the text box.)

[Liz]

Rachel wrote: "Liz wrote: "So I'm going to subject myself to judgment and say that I gave two stars to Farenheit 451. I read it in high school during a finals week and I don't think I properly absorbed it (espec..."
I was 18 then and I'm still only 21 now but I've definitely matured and developed academically since then.

[Sasha]

Aw, Animal Farm is good. :( Now I am sad.

I guess maybe I should check out this Flannery O'Connor person.

[Carrie]

Alex, did you not read Flannery O'Connor in high school? Love her!

[Carrie]

HATED The Red Tent, p.s.

[Sasha]

I guess not. Considering my super-liberal school, that I could miss a female author who dealt with race seems unlikely, but she's not ringing a bell. What're her most famous short stories? I'll check some stuff out.

[KHoopMan]

My absolute favorite Flanner O'Connor story is A Good Man is Hard to Find. I recommend listening to the Rolling Stones "Sympathy for the Devil" after you read it!!

[Sasha]

I'll check it out, Eliza.

[Juniper]

Alex wrote: "Aw, Animal Farm is good. :( Now I am sad. I guess maybe I should check out this Flannery O'Connor person."

Don't be too sad. There are so many reasons a book can be tainted while read as a teenager - the teacher, the class buffoons, the lack of choice. I know I will get around to Animal Farm some day but it's not a high priority.

I would second Eliza's recommendation, heartily!

[Liz]

ok, i'm done lurking. you guys are funny. Hit me with your best shot. I just didnt get The Alchemist- in fact, most of the books i've read lately from the 1001 list of books to read before you die have been crap.

[Kaion]

Liz, you gave Petals on the Wind four stars.

[Jayme]

I loved the Alchemist, Liz. But I know a lot of people hate it, so I'm okay with that. You didn't like Wicked either...at least you have good taste with The Gargoyle and Jane Eyre though.

And yeah, I agree with Kaion, those Flowers in the Attic sequels are pretty brutal, 4 stars...I don't think so.

[Liz]

V.C Andrews- O M G only the best author ever! heh.

[Jayme]

Well I guess anyone who manages to write novels from the grave, must be talented...

[Jayme]

I've heard a lot of people not like Curious Dog. It seems to be a love/hate kinda book. Makes me want to read it.

[Sasha]

I thought it started off strong, but I did not like the ending. There's no way Superman could hide his identity just by wearing glasses.

That's not how it ends. But I didn't like the real ending either.

[Donna]

Just had to add that I really hated The Red Leather Diary: Reclaiming a Life Through the Pages of a Lost Journal. I thought it was just retarted! SHe got all this recognition for digging in the garbage and re-writing someone else's thoughts! I would lose my Degree if I was caught plagarising!

[Liz]

Yeah, Curious Incident ...just rubbed me the wrong way. I work with kids with autism and the entire time I was just rolling my eyes while reading. I should probably give it another go.

If i reread V.C Andrews (or whomever is writing for her these days) I'm sure I'd agree that they are total crap. However, I read them when I was in 7th and 8thish grade. I remember asking my mom what sperm was. Yeah, I was a bit sheltered, so the mild sex scenes in these books were TREMENDOUS for me. hehe.

[Donna]

OK Good. Curious Incident was OK but really? I see ppl giving it such high stars and I just didn't get it!

[Liz]

I made enemies, during my real life monthly book club, for my opinions Curious Incident. Oh Well.

[Liz]

Have we talked about The Book Thief yet? I adored that book. I did see the discussion on Mein Kampf - scary!

[Donna]

I loved the Book Thief!!!!

[El]

I was underwhelmed by The Book Thief. A lot of hype for not much good reason in my opinion. I gave it 3-stars, but battled between 2 and 3.

[Liz]

Wow - you gave Atonmenment 2 stars as well, El? I loved that book, too.
Other than that, our ratings are pretty similar.

[Donna]

I gave it 5 stars! I loved the whole concept of it!

[El]

Liz, yeah only 2-stars for Atonement. I never connected to any of the characters, and that's a big deal for me.

[VMom]

Donna wrote: "I loved the Book Thief!!!!"

I tried to read that 3 frickin times and and kept bouncing off. Then the group I just joined picked it for the group read. Yargh!
If you want to read a well-written witty DEATH. WHO. SPEAKS. IN. ALL. CAPS. READ. Mort. INSTEAD.

[Matthew]

I just ran across this quote by Aleksandr Solzhenitysn and really liked it. Added it to my profile as well and am throwing it out there for others to enjoy/think about.

The line separating good and evil
passes not through states,
nor between classes,
nor between parties either,
but right through the human heart.

Great quote.

[Julie]

El wrote: "Donna, I don't think I've seen many people to give anything less than 5-stars to To Kill a Mockingbird. I don't even want to trash you... I'm just... wow. :)"

I gave 4 stars to "To Kill a Mockingbird". But I haven't given ANYTHING 5 stars yet. For some reason I have a hard time rating anything as "It was amazing". 4 stars-"I liked it alot" fits my favorite books better...I guess I am just not that easily excited??

[Julie]

I want to re-read The Grapes Of Wrath too. I remember I liked parts of it but that was long ago and I don't remember much about it.