The Next Best Book Club discussion
Non-Book Related Banter
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Thread Of Dire Judgment
Jennifer wrote: "I am absolutely in a mess of laughter over the crazy reviews people have posted. Who knew Bible reviews would be so entertaining??I am really not trying to be offensive I'm just seriously wondering what these reviewers thought they were reading/buying?? "
They're obviously being tongue-in-cheek. As a heathen myself, I've only read the first parts of Genesis, and I'd have to agree. Definitely not descriptive enough for me to be an interesting mythology read. (Which brings us too...)
Jayme wrote: "Kaion wrote: "I grew up with Harry Potter too Clare, except I didn't get the big fuss. :( I was (still am) a hanger-on so I did read the first four, but they lost me completely there. A tournament ..."
*gasp* Does this mean you didn't like Prydain series?
Throwing of books is only done out of love. (Hence my not throwing of any Harry Potter books.)
Actually, the The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe was the first time I decided I really loved books and had to read all of them. Haven't reread any of them since, though, except The Magician's Nephew.*
I loved The Subtle Knife, was bored by The Golden Compass(yes, in that order), was terribly excited by the release of The Amber Spyglass- but I just didn't like how the whole second half of it shaped up. Even excluding the never-ending portions about the creatures with the pod-wheels (which was unnecessarily ponderous, though in retrospect, maybe Pullman's answer to "intelligent" design?).*
As for The Dark is Rising (The Grey King was definitely the best one)... I guess this means you don't know about slash fanfiction. In which case, I will say nothing (except that Star Trek didn't invent fandom, it just put a face to it) and let you keep your innocence.
**And no, I never thought to read the Dark Materials or the Narnia series any more from a religious perspective than something like Dark is Rising or Prydain. What can I say? I was raised naive and Buddhist.
I don't have any idea what you're talking about. What is this slash fanfiction? I can't stay innocent because now I need to know and it's all your fault. I can google it if you won't tell me.And yes, Chronicles of Prydain is great too. You might be my new book hero.
Susanna wrote: "Clare wrote: "Oh dear Harry Potter. I grew up with Harry, in fact half the kids who turned eleven were expecting their letters to Hogwarts. I waited for the books to come out religiously. I love..."Lol. I was rather mad. If you've read that sappy bit of fan fiction regarded as the Epilogue that was considered to be the worthy conclusion of the treasured series you would have been mad too.
Now I just pretend that HP ended on book five :)
Xox, you are missing the point and the tone of that review. It's light-hearted, like this thread is supposed to be. Ahem.Jennifer, those reviews are awesome.
So...uh, who wants to explain slash fanfiction to Jayme? NOT IT. Jayme, if you google that, don't do it at work.
...okay, fine. Fanfiction is fanfiction; "slash" means it's homoerotic fanfiction. If you've ever thought Harry Potter would have been perfect if only Harry and Ron were lovers, I have opened a brave new world for you.
Kaion, a) I love Prydain :) and b) I was the same way; I was raised atheist, and years later when someone told me Narnia was Christian propaganda I had no idea what they were talking about. "The lion's a metaphor for who now?" This is what happens when one is raised in a barn by hippies.
Ewwww, maybe I didn't need to know that. And I don't think I'll ruin my favourite childhood series by checking it out...I didn't know Narnia was Christian until my friend told me when I was like 13. And then I had to think about it for awhile.
Hey!Jumping back to the bible quotes for just a minute -
Oh, I totally read them as tongue-in-cheek reviews, yet they still cracked me up. Some of the reviews I didn't copy were deadly serious though and almost as laugh-inducing. It was just the funniest thing in the most unexpected place!
Jayme wrote: "Ewwww, maybe I didn't need to know that. And I don't think I'll ruin my favourite childhood series by checking it out......doth protest too much.
Kaion, did you seriously give 1 star to Ender's Game?! Ugh.
Jennifer wrote: "Okay, so I had heard there are very funny reviews of The Bible at Amazon and, OMG, some of them are hysterical! "LMAO!
OMG thanks for posting those. My belly hurts from laughing.
Rachel wrote: "Alex you can hate on the Harry Potter books all you want...they are kinda formulaic but I find that a flaw in most YA series...just don't heap any "they're anti-christian" remarks...I've had my sha..."The "anti-christian" thing is so ironic since the HP series is more obvious Christian allegory than Narnia.
Wait, what? Explain! As we've established, most Christian allegories zip right over my head.
They go over my head too. Who's jesus? Is it Harry?
Oh wait, is it Dumbledore? That would make sense...
No, it would have to be Harry. MAJOR SPOILERS! SERIOUSLY! FOR BOTH HARRY POTTER AND THE BIBLE! He sacrifices himself and is brought back to life toward the end of book 7. And Voldemort's a pretty obvious Satan guy, what with the snake imagery and the fact that he was Head Boy at Hogwarts before he "fell from grace" thanks to overwheening ambition. I see it, I guess. I think it's a bit of a stretch. I don't know if I think it's more obvious than Narnia. Narnia's pretty obvious.
CS Lewis purposely wrote Chronicles of Narnia as christian allegory. JK Rowling did a lot of research into "occult practices" while writing HP. The funny thing is I didn't know how much research she did until I read Harry Potter and the Bible: The Menace Behind the Magick. So if i went to do more research on the occult now, which book should i blame for making me a Satanist? (people, i'm kidding!)
Alex, that's was a very elegant explanation of slash fanfiction. (hehehehe)Alex wrote: "I was the same way; I was raised atheist, and years later when someone told me Narnia was Christian propaganda I had no idea what they were talking about. "The lion's a metaphor for who now?" This is what happens when one is raised in a barn by hippies..."
I know, right? I felt stupid later seeing the movie because I think the movie does put it more out there in your face. It's not like the Bible has alternate dimensions with satyrs, does it? (Does it?)
But reading (and being disgusted) by Siddhartha, maybe ignorance was bliss? (Jesus is
Jayme wrote: "Kaion, did you seriously give 1 star to Ender's Game?! Ugh."
Yes, I did. It pretty much embodies everything I think is stupid in science fiction. 1) depictions of cool superhumans that don't act human, 2) reliance of cool "twists" that don't hold up, 3) undeserved moral ponderousness. It really embodies that Card wanted to write a cool video games are WAR story twist and then he wrote a story around it. You could argue that he's saying the evil power-plays between the kids is really a product of warfare and their society and horrible, but unavoidable/necessary- but I don't find these shenanigans believable (no matter how Card overexplains them) or entertaining.
And the last act in which Ender finds redemption? Cheap moralizing- especially after the majority of the book really capitalized on the 'cool' of warfare. If Card can spend seemingly never ending pages explaining how to mentally CRUSH your foes, he should spend an at the very least equally long time on the strategizing of peace if "balance" and the capability to do both is what he's trying to portray in Ender.
Also, I find nothing entertaining in reading about people playing video games. That they become real video games later doesn't make those passages more interesting .
How come you didn't like Jane Eyre, Kaion?
Kaion, the second book, Speaker for the Dead, deals a lot with the redemption and peace part of that story. I liked everything you thought was dumb in that book, oh well!Oh yeah, I missed your Jane Eyre rating, you must explain that too! I loved that book.
And as for Narnia, I agree that it's way more obvious allegory there then in Harry Potter. Especially when you look at the series as a whole. I'm still not even sure I agree with Alex's explanation about his Harry=Jesus comments and I'm too lazy to read the wiki on it. I think if she did it on purpose, then Harry is a terrible choice for Jesus. It would have been better if it were Dumbledore. At least he's wise and he died at a time when he thought it would help the cause. Harry's just fumbling along in the dark, hoping for the best.
Susanna wrote: "How come you didn't like Jane Eyre, Kaion?"Hi, Full marks to J.K. she worked really hard on 'Potter', not my choice at all! The whole saga proves what a pathetic money grabbing lot the people who run the 'conventional' publishing industry really are. The years it took her to get published in the first place, the over editing of the subsequent books, hence your comments on 'being samey,' 'more of the same' is all you hear from the big publishers, at least that is what one VERY well known author told me at Winchester book festival last year. He admitted he was fed up writing the same story over and over, just to please the publisher, he wanted to write something different and they didn't want to know, and this man has literally sold millions! Even Louis de Bernier got relegated almost to 'new author'status with the follow up to 'Captain Correlli's mandolin because he dared to write something different.
Until readers start demanding an end to the same old stories, just with new names and places this is what will happen, a good idea will get flogged to death and your last memory of something which started great ends in boring sameness, just so a few can make a bit more money out of as authors good idea and hard work.
Thanks for reading my 'rant' All the best,
Paul Rix [oldgeezer:]
Paul, you need to read more books so we can judge your reading habits too.
Hi El,I read all sorts, from Steven Hawkins to Randulf Finnes. I also read a lot of print on demand stuff, my all time favourite is the 'Reincarnation of Issac Brock', by A.B.Robinson, which is a bit odd, as I hate historical fiction, but that one was more than good.
My favourite author is John le Carrie.
If you really want to find out what I'm like try reading 'The Day The Ravens Died', the boss of Authors on Line reckons the main character is my alter ego. I wish, I'm much easier going. There are some good deals on Amazon at the moment, if you like thrillers, it is also available as an E-Book from Authors on line.
Why not check out the Authors on line site, there are some crackers on there, I think the total is about 800 now, they are just as available in the 'States as they are here, and they don't contribute to the 77 MILLION books returned to publishers last year in the U.K. alone for pulping. I notice they included P.O.D. titles in the sales though.
All the best Paul Rix [oldgeezer:]
But you gotta review all those books, so we can pore through them and rag on you for the one book we disagree slightly with!
Susanna wrote: "How come you didn't like Jane Eyre, Kaion?"Geez, I like books! *small voice* I do.
I'm not sure it's specifically Jane Eyre that I don't respond well to as much as the whole Gothic literature thing with the heightened emotional landscaping. (I'm for psychosomatic heightened emotion, like in say, The Secret Garden, but ultimately it's shown to be psychological- an ability that the characters can harness rather than them being at the whims of fear! and the winds! of the moor!) But my exposure to that whole aesthetic has been incredibly limited, so I'm prepared to be proven wrong by the right novel.
And on another personal note that is no fault of Jane Eyre, I fully admit that I'm not much for passionate romances (mystery!attraction!)- especially ones that emphasize the pairness of the individuals away from greater society. In general, "love" from friendships and familial relationships is more moving to me- and romantic stories that tap into the same struggles appeal much more to me. (Such as mutual respect despite differing values/attitudes, balance between duty to others and individualism, etc.)
On the more specific level, I felt Jane Eyre was really incomplete in resolution (even after I assume Jane and Mr. Rochester have this thing we call love between them). I felt very cheated in the poor wife-in-the-attic deal (woman of color and mental illness? That's the story I want to read.*)- and that Mr. Rochester is forgiven just because he feels sorry (about getting caught) and punished by "fate"/"God"/"the universe" ... that's not redemption to me, being borne out of no attempts of his own. A murderer that gets terminal cancer does not earn redemption any more than the same murderer in health.
And Girl, you've heard of that expression (paraphrased)-"if he cheats on his wife with you, who's not to say he won't cheat on you?" Applies doubly to attic imprisonment.
*Yes, I've recently heard of Wide Sargasso Sea. Is it awesome? I mean, it sounds awesome.
Jayme wrote: "Kaion, the second book, Speaker for the Dead, deals a lot with the redemption and peace part of that story. I liked everything you thought was dumb in that book, oh well!
Oh yeah, I missed your Ja..."
Oh well indeed. :D (Hey, people are all about variances. It's fun.)
What? This means I have to read another book to finish the one story? *mutters in the corner about inconsiderate people who can't finish a non-serialized story reasonably in one installment* (Yes, all movies that nowadays end on cliffhanger pleas for sequels, I'm talking to You.)
I haven't read Deathly Hallows, stories of a hero traveling to an afterlife (and coming back) predates Christianity surely. (Not to say it's not true, but saying they could have that in common without striving to be a direct parallel.)
Kaion - I enjoyed Wide Sargasso Sea, it wasn't a five star read for me, but it was definitely interesting. I read an annotated edition which really helped me in seing the ties to Jane Eyre. If I hadn't had that, or if I hadn't heard it was a Jane Eyre prequel of sorts, I may not have realised that connection (Mr Rochester remains unamed throughout the story and some other details have been altered). Because of this I think it works as a stand alone novel too.
Kaion, do not read Speaker of the Dead. Not that you were going to. Ender's Game is the only decent book Card wrote (sorry Jayme), and you didn't even like that.Sidenote: I liked Ender's Game, but Orson Scott Card is a dick.
Stories of a hero traveling to an afterlife (and coming back) predates Christianity surely.
I think that's a valid point. The story of Jesus is archetypical. People like to say there's a Christ parallel any time someone sacrifices himself for a cause, but Jesus didn't invent martyrs.
Rowling herself insists that Harry Potter was always a religious allegory, though.
Sidenote: I liked Ender's Game, but Orson Scott Card is a dick.Ha! I was thinking the same thing! I haven't read Ender's Game, but I would definitely give Orson Scott Card 1 star as a person. (Although...is 'no stars' an option?)
Paul, I didn't mean for you to try to sell me your book. That's not really the point of this thread, but thanks for playing!I remember also liking Ender's Game in high school when I read it. I also read Lost Boys like way back, probably junior high. I remember being freaked out by it, but doubt I would be now that I'm all growed up and have a crusty ol' heart. I didn't know about Card's "issues", so thanks Alex for bringing it all to my attention. It's always great to find out things like that about authors I considered pretty decent. Go ahead and punch me in the face while you're at it. :)
Alex, quit ruining stuff for me...I don't like reading books by authors who are dicks. You suck!But he's right, Kaion. I wouldn't recommend Speaker for the Dead either, it was really weird and if you didn't like the first one, I doubt you'd like the second one.
Sooooooooorry.That reminds me, here's a real quote from a real Jane Austen interview: "Whenever they invent Nazis, I am gonna be totally down for that." She said that.
I'm so gullible, I had to look at that twice, Alex. You could have at least phrased it better than "totally down for that".
Alex wrote: "That reminds me, here's a real quote from a real Jane Austen interview: "Whenever they invent Nazis, I am gonna be totally down for that." She said that."You are a funny guy Alex! Did you read that whole interview? Did you get to the part where she talks about men being from mars and women being from venus? That part was pretty funny!
:D
Kaion's quote of the week: "And Girl, you've heard of that expression (paraphrased)-"if he cheats on his wife with you, who's not to say he won't cheat on you?" Applies doubly to attic imprisonment."LOL!!
Eliza wrote: "Kaion's quote of the week: "And Girl, you've heard of that expression (paraphrased)-"if he cheats on his wife with you, who's not to say he won't cheat on you?" Applies doubly to attic imprisonment..."Yeah, that was a great review, Kaion. You almost had me convinced that I shouldn't like Jane Eyre. I think I still do, though. I guess I can deal with the drama because Jane is so level-headed. I imagine that I'd respond to the events of her life in much the same way she did, with one major exception. (SPOILERS) I totally would have married Rochester. True, he's trouble, but rarely is trouble also so hot. Still, I think Bronte made the right choice and ended the book in a way that's consistent with Jane's character (even though it broke my little reader heart).
I'm curious, has anyone seen the film Jane Eyre with Orson Welles? Did that ending come out of nowhere?!? I screamed WHAT?! so many times the neighbors came over to check on me.
Regarding Wide Sargasso Sea: I liked it, though I think I gave it an extra star (4 vs. 3) just because I loved the concept. I really enjoyed the first part, seeing Antoinette grown up in Jamaica and learning about the racial/social dynamics. Enter Rochester and the whole thing becomes less interesting to me (strangely, the opposite of Jane Eyre). Rhys's Rochester is decidedly not hot.
Blimey! review all of 'em, it would take over the site!! not to mention longer than it takes to write a 100,000 word plus, thriller! But I take your point, I have written a few comments on a few around the site, though you could hardly call them reviews. About the only one I can remember having a go at was Terry Wogans' latest, I can't remember what it was called now and it is in the bottom 'A'box prior to our impending move. It was simply a case of a publisher trying to make a quick buck out of a famous and generally well loved celebrity, it was little more than a collection of articles originally published in a womans magazine a few years ago, it was DIRE, I read it because it was a Christmas present bought in good faith by my eldest son who knew I liked The Terry Wogan breakfast show on the radio.Books I liked:- From my school days Moonfleet and Lorna Doone left a lasting impression, so it is safe to say,50 years on there was something memorable about them, Hated 'Moby Dick' and 'The Man in the Iron Mask'.
More recently A Brief History of Time and the Universe in a Nutshell, both by Steven Hawkins got my attention, learned a lot and understood a bit more, ended up realising how little I really know about the greater scheme of things.
One book I wasn't to keen on, but the wife loved was 'The Apothecary' by Dereck Hucklesby, brilliantly written, I cannot deny the quality of the writing, but it simply was not the sort of story I enjoy, another classic example of brilliant, but not my scene is 'A cloak of Magic' by Sue Rule, fantasy books do nothing for me, but I still know a good one when I see it, 'A cloak of Magic' is the first of a trilogy. I believe the second one is 'The Staff of Power' and is out and about, with the final part due out later this year.
So if you want a list to check out to find out what sort of things I read then there should be enough of a diverse selection in my last two posts to keep you all busy for a bit.
I couldn't help noticing many of you had the same complaint, how ever much you liked a particular author, the 'pleasure level' dropped after a few titles, for the reason go back to my previous post about 'more of the same' blame the publisher, not the author! Which is why I read a lot of self published stuff because the author is freed from the constaints of the mainsteam money grab. The results might never be considered classics, but a great many of them are fresh and written with a passion which often comes through, try some.
All the best Paul Rix [oldgeezer:]
Thanks, Paul. Sadly I still have nothing to judge here, but that's only because I haven't read many of the books you mentioned. Lorna Doone and The Man in the Iron Mask have long been on my TBR but keep getting passed up by different things. I also didn't care for Moby Dick. Hmm, well, I guess I'll just have to reserve real judgment until I read Lorna Doone and the Dumas.By the way, you don't have to post all the books you've ever read. Do you still read now? You should rate them as you go along. That's just an OCD thing with me and certainly not a judgment. Well, not a big one anyway. :)
Well, we're in agreemant so far one for one.Do I still read? not as much as I would like too, is the easy answer. Best book this year? Oh ! that's a tough one, 'An expedition around my family' by Randolf Finnes is worth a look, I learnt more about the history of this country [U.K.:] reading this, than I did in five years at school.
A couple of others worth a mention, 'Clan' by David Elliot, a bit heavy for my tastes, but a darned good book for all that, it sort of 'draws you into it' so it has to be good, it couldn't do that if it was bad.
Lastly, and totally different, 'The trouble with Harry' by Rita Jamieson, a great little book all about a Grandmothers fight to find out what was wrong with her little grandson and then to get the treatment he needed. Well written, informative and best of all, well that would spoil it for anyone going to read it.
The reason I don't read as much as I would like is I am spending a lot of time on my current writing project, a gardening book, written at my publishers behest!! and trying to finish the follow up to 'The Day the Ravens Died' and still get ready to move house next month!
All the best Paul Rix [oldgeezer:]
I have really enjoyed reading this thread. I'm not done, yet, but I figure I had better give up my lurker status.I'm sure you'll find plenty to hate on my shelves. Go to town.
But before you do, I'll just say: I hated The Shack, The Lovely Bones, The Memory Keepers Daughter, anything by Nicholas Sparks, most of Danielle Steel, and I only read the first Harry Potter.
Jane Austen is my hero(ine) and I still love Jane Eyre even though she made very poor life choices.
*measly little gauntlet tentatively thrown*
Katie wrote: "I guess I can deal with the drama because Jane is so level-headed. I imagine that I'd respond to the events of her life in much the same way she did, with one major exception. (SPOILERS) I totally would have married Rochester..."Actually, all this talking about Jane Eyre made me give it another star. See what you guys are doing to me?!
Though I can honestly say I never heard anyone describe Rochester as "hot" before I joined goodreads. Yay for literary geeks. :D (Maybe this is a thing that better adapts to the screen?)
They're making a new Jane Eyre movie (like they don't every 5 years or so).
Alex wrote: "Sooooooooorry.
That reminds me, here's a real quote from a real Jane Austen interview: "Whenever they invent Nazis, I am gonna be totally down for that." She said that."
hehehehe... (Yeah, I know about Card. I've heard some people who like him who make a point to check his new books out of the library 'cause of his personal beliefs.)
Interesting that Rowling insists she always intended HP as a religious allegory.
Tanya wrote: "Kaion - I enjoyed Wide Sargasso Sea, it wasn't a five star read for me, but it was definitely interesting. I read an annotated edition which really helped me in seing the ties to Jane Eyre. If I ha..."
And it's only 160 pages? Hells yes. (Terseness doesn't wear on a person).
El wrote: "Thanks, Paul. Sadly I still have nothing to judge here, but that's only because I haven't read many of the books you mentioned. Lorna Doone and The Man in the Iron Mask ..."
El, I'm the same way. For older reads though I'm often torn on whether I should rate them by how I felt about them at the time, or how I feel about them now.
Adrienne wrote: "I have really enjoyed reading this thread. I'm not done, yet, but I figure I had better give up my lurker status.I'm sure you'll find plenty to hate on my shelves. Go to town.
But before you d..."
Welcome, Adrienne, I was going to say about spies having sex in gondolas - but you have funny shelf names, so I can't hate on that.
Adrienne wrote: "I have really enjoyed reading this thread. I'm not done, yet, but I figure I had better give up my lurker status.I'm sure you'll find plenty to hate on my shelves. Go to town.
But before you d..."
Interesting shelves, Adrienne. We have some bizarrely random books in common--Odd Girl Out: The Hidden Culture of Aggression in Girls, Women Who Run with the Wolves. Out of the multitude of shelves I've peeped since joining Goodreads, I've never seen anyone with those two.
On to the judgement... ;-) Only 1* for The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay! Oh, please finish it. Really, not every part is like part one; the pace picks up. Let me guess, you stopped around page 50? 65, maybe? Could your stopping have to do with Chabon's crazy run-on sentences and ridiculous vocabulary? I struggled with the first 50 or so pages, but eventually I got used to his style and stopped reaching for the dictionary every five minutes (exophthalmic, anyone?). At least skip to part II, chapters 5, 6, and 7, about the creation of the Escapist. Those chapters are A-maz-ing. There's also a paragraph in a later chapter about the artfulness of Joe's drawing that's so incredibly wonderful it's worth reading the entire 600-odd pages to find it. Have I convinced you yet?
I'm with you on Three Cups of Tea: One Man's Mission to Promote Peace . . . One School at a Time. I'm amazed that it didn't guilt you into giving it more stars. Stand strong.
Adrienne, you have good taste in books, unfortunately. We agree on some controversial ones - three stars for V for Vendetta and Hitchhiker's Guide, for example.But yeah, Kavalier and Clay is way awesome. You totally fail on that one.
Adrienne, I'm with the others on Kavalier and Clay. You'll have to explain yourself on that one. And while you're at it, if you could explain your 1-star rating for Foucault's Pendulum, I'd appreciate it. :)So far, though, looking at your shelves gives me a lot of warm-fuzzies. Glad to see someone else has read John Dunning! I'm not done perusing your books, so I might be back with more rants/raves.
Alex, did we already discuss your dislike of V for Vendetta? I don't remember what your issue is of it. I thought it was great. And yes, I read it before I saw the movie which was absolutely meh.
Katie, I've been Darn, where are all the people who read the crappy books on this thread? It makes bashing hard.
I was under the impression that many people think Name of the Rose was the only decent book Eco wrote.El, oh, probably. That's in relation to Moore's other work; I feel like V is a little obvious and ooh, look how radical I am. The kind of thing I would have written when I was 21, if I was much smarter than I ever have been. It's good, just not as good as much of his other stuff.
Adrienne: you get five stars for giving The Republic one star. I haven't read that particular one, but in general I don't think Plato or Socrates are as smart as they think they are.
El, in case you need some ammo: she gave The House of Mirth three stars. And go.
And I think I might pick up Beowulf on the Beach: What to Love and What to Skip in Literature's 50 Greatest Hits. It's just too tempting. Table of contents here, so you can see what books he covers.If we ever start this thread again, I'm calling it "Measly Little Gauntlet Tentatively Thrown."
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You just complained about every single one of my favourite childhood series...do you not have a soul?! I don't get your comment on the Dark is Rising though. Bran and Will didn't what?
Jennifer, those are some kick ass reviews!