A question for all...

[Bloomin’Chick (Jo) aka The Eclectic Spoonie]

I'm curious... Generally speaking, given the books released in let's say the last 5 years through the present & reactions to those books, do you feel that messages and experiences are taken more seriously (or given more credit) when released as nonfiction/memoir as opposed to being released as fiction? Which style of writing holds more weight for you when it comes to taking the overall theme of the book to heart? Are you more likely to relate to the book when it's nonfic/memoir or fiction?

[Tera, First Chick]

To be totally honest I often find the nonfiction/memoir to be a bit self indulgent. I don't like it when the author tries to hit me over the head with their message. I prefer a book where I find my own message in it rather than being told in the beginning what it is. Not that there aren't works of fiction where the author is a bit too in my face. I just seem to find that more in nonfiction/memoirs than in fiction.

[Elena]

The only nonfiction books I like are true crime stories. I have tried a couple of memoirs and could not finished any of them. So I would say fiction delivers better to my heart.

[Adrienne]

Sometimes I find memoirs self-indulgent as well, but the good ones seem to surpass that lower instinct in all of us to brag and really give something to the reader. I like them a great deal, not the least of which for reminding me that we all have a story worth telling.

And where fiction has the advantage of lesson hidden in an escape, I still think my answer to your question would be nonfiction.

I read the two genres for very different reasons. When my heart is too heavy with lessons and experiences, I put down the nonfiction and pick up the fiction book I'm currently in - does anyone else have one of each always on the go like me? Then when I'm rested and have digested what I needed, I go back to the nonfiction.

[Bloomin’Chick (Jo) aka The Eclectic Spoonie]

(Added one last question to my initial post here at the end of it - sorry, forgot it to begin with!)

[Carrie]

I have to agree with Adrienne. I read these two genres for different reasons. Fiction is my escape from the turmoil of everyday life. I can become a character and fall into their made-up world. Memoir offers nuggets about life that real people have learned and are willing to share. I can't help but think about memoirs such as Jeanette Walls The Glass Castle, and the hope it showed me in the face of adversity. I think memoirs allow us to glimpse the pain others have gone through and feel comfort in our own struggles. I often find this with the nonfiction unit I do with my seniors. They choose books about people that have experienced things similar to their own lives and find solace that there are others out there like them. So in longwinded fashion, my answer to The question posed would be I can relate to both fiction and nonfiction in different ways. I think there are messages to be gleaned from both and it depends on my state of mind which I gravitate towards. Carrie

[Debbie]

I guess I always lean towards fiction, agreeing with Tera
(I don't like it when the author tries to hit me over the head with their message. I prefer a book where I find my own message in it rather than being told in the beginning what it is.)

and Corkdork (love that name!)
(Fiction is my escape from the turmoil of everyday life. I can become a character and fall into their made-up world.)

[Bloomin’Chick (Jo) aka The Eclectic Spoonie]

Let me ask this a little differently - Regardless of your preferred genre, if Eat Pray Love or The Glass Castle has been written as fiction books, do you think they still would have had the same impact they've had? And what if The Help or The Story of Edgar Sawtelle had been written as nonfiction/memoir style books? (Whether you've liked or disliked these books, they've all had a great impact on their readers).

[Tera, First Chick]

I guess my problem is for the most part i dislike memoirs because of my previous reasons so I read more fiction and consequently find more meaning in them.

I do however like learning things from nonfiction but I don't often feel like ive learned anything from a memoir.

This has me thinking so much. I like biographies but I dislike autobiographies. I like learning about people through nonfiction but I don't like learning about a person from their own works.

Like I said I guess I often find them self indulgent and an unreliable source. I rarely think the person whom the story is about is a trustworthy source because we see things differently when we have lived it and rarely take the time to focus on all sides of the story. I didn't care for The Glass Castle and had zero desire to read Eat Pray Love. I did however read The Last Lecture and I loved that. Maybe because it felt more like a man writing his last letter to his children than a memoir. I don't know.

[Bloomin’Chick (Jo) aka The Eclectic Spoonie]

I've been thinking about this a lot too Tera and I figured this would be a great question (well, questions!) to pose to my fellow Chicks & GR's friends, especially if say a book like EPL was released as fiction would its' impact be as far reaching as it is being a memoir.

The more I'm thinking about this, other things come up, like it seems to me that women authors are taken more seriously as fiction authors than women memoir authors because of the self indulgent perception. And what surprises me lately is the often Hateful reactions to memoirs directed at their authors, which is something I just don't get. I can fully understand not relating to someone or liking what they've written but to get so down & dirty is surprising and shocking to me.

Me personally, I Love both fiction and memoir, not so much auto-bio, bio or non-fic. I also loved The Last Lecture! (Highly Highly recommend it to Everyone!) I didn't take it strictly as memoir though for some reason.

[SarahSaysRead]

Jo wrote: "Let me ask this a little differently - Regardless of your preferred genre, if Eat Pray Love or The Glass Castle has been written as fiction books, do you think they still would have had the same im..."

I read EPL and think I would have enjoyed the message just as much if it were a fiction novel - and since The Help is kind of written like a non-fiction book anyways, I think it would have had the same impact on me.

However, I do think that sometimes the "message" that we take away from a book comes across easier in novels because they're told as stories, and to me that makes a more lasting impression. Kind of like the reason why we tell children the story of the "Boy Who Cried Wolf" instead of just saying to them "Hey, don't lie or people might not believe you." So I guess for me, the message of a book really depends on the presentation...

[Elizabeth (Alaska)]

The Glass Castle read like fiction and I entirely forgot it was a memoir. Most of the stuff I see these days as a memoir has usually been written by someone too young to have lived enough life to write a memoir. Perhaps that viewpoint comes with age, but I'm not particularly interested in reading the "life story" of someone who isn't even 30. Not enough life yet to have a story. So I don't bother with them. And, like Tera, I'd just prefer not to be hit over the head with the author's opinion. I don't want to be hit over the head with it in fiction either, and a good author will lead you without using a club.

[Bloomin’Chick (Jo) aka The Eclectic Spoonie]

Sarah wrote: "I read EPL and think I would have enjoyed the message just as much if it were a fiction novel - and since The Help is kind of written like a non-fiction book anyways, I think it would have had the same impact on me.

However, I do think that sometimes the "message" that we take away from a book comes across easier in novels because they're told as stories, and to me that makes a more lasting impression. Kind of like the reason why we tell children the story of the "Boy Who Cried Wolf" instead of just saying to them "Hey, don't lie or people might not believe you." So I guess for me, the message of a book really depends on the presentation... "

I think this is what I've been trying to get at myself Sarah, thank you!

[Ella]

I love biographies and used to love memoirs, but there have been SO many recently, that all but the most amazing ones start to sound the same. Even the funny "self-deprecating woman in her 40s" books that I relate to & laugh at have started to follow a certain script. It's written down, but I am a woman in my 40s, so I make those very same saggy jokes all by myself! Even when the writing is good, it often seems like I could sketch out the basic story from the slew I've read in the last five years or so. I have gotten more and more harsh in my judgment of memoirs I think.
One thing I cannot cope with anymore is what I call "the Oprah book." It goes like this: lovely wonderful person w/ lovely life, big tragedy, sadness...wallow just a bit, overcome tragedy with strength of character and grace, then hammer reader over the head w/ your gratitude at all the love in the world. Blech. I'm done w/ that. That's actually why I'm very excited to read Push again. I read it when it was brand new. My copy is the first edition, and I remember it being vivid, honest, raw and not at all self-serving. I'm interested to see how it stands up after these years.
I don't at all like being given a "message" really, from fiction or memoir (or thinly-veiled memoir/fiction.) It's terrific if I get some along the way, but these "boom, learn this life lesson now" books bother me. I think it's partially my age too. I'm just an old curmudgeon (especially tonight, actually ;) Be well ladies -- Ella

[Bloomin’Chick (Jo) aka The Eclectic Spoonie]

I never got around to reading Push but it's been on my list for ages! I'll have to see if the library has it. I'm not one for books that have a specific message either actually but regardless of genre, most books do have some kind of point the author is trying to get across so it's hard to avoid, unless of course we're talking trashy romance novels :-). This all started recently w/my thinking along the lines, "huh, which do folks take more seriously, a character's journey or an actual person's journey?" and it's snow balled since, LOL! I'm coming up w/more & more Qs.

[AJ]

I used to be allergic to non-fiction but was drawn to historical fiction for the simple reason that I was learning while reading. Over the years I've started reading a lot of historical non-fiction - not so much memoirs or autobiographies (I agree with Tera too!) but historical well researched books. I have been plesantly surprised by how engaging they are and in some cases, much more dramatic that fictious stories. I also feel that if authors spent so much time researching the least I can do to pay money for their time putting together something entertaining and educational for me.

I just finished Nothing to Envy: Ordinary Lives in North Korea and I highly recommend it. It weaves the stories of multiple characters together and while it's all nonfiction it is still interesting and keeps the pace with many fiction novels.

The only time I read memoirs is if they are written by spies. I love that stuff!

[Leslie]

Memoirs are my favorite kind of books. I would say that the impact on me, as I read and afterward, depends on the book and the writing and my own state of mind at the time. I cried for the last 100 pages of Time Traveler's Wife. The book was fiction, but the emotions were real.
As far as being too young to write a memoir, if a person has the skill to write the book and do a good job, I don't think he or she is too young to write a memoir, since it isn't the same as an autobiography. A memoir is about one portion or aspect of a person's life.
I don't like to be hit over the head either, but that isn't exclusive to non-fiction. Too many books of every kind do it.
I love novels, but I love memoirs more. I want to know what people have survived and how they survived and to be allowed admittance into the true core of the heart of people who are brave enough and willing to work hard enough to write it all down, publish it, and let the rest of us read it. I consider that act one of extreme courage.

[Bloomin’Chick (Jo) aka The Eclectic Spoonie]

Leslie wrote: "I want to know what people have survived and how they survived and to be allowed admittance into the true core of the heart of people who are brave enough and willing to work hard enough to write it all down, publish it, and let the rest of us read it.I consider that act one of extreme courage. "

I could not agree more Leslie! And that's why I love memoirs as well.

Brenda wrote: "Thanks, Jo, for keeping us thinking! "

You're welcome Brenda! :~)

I'm finding everyone's thoughts really interesting!

[Carrie]

Leslie wrote: "Memoirs are my favorite kind of books. I would say that the impact on me, as I read and afterward, depends on the book and the writing and my own state of mind at the time. I cried for the last 1..."

I have to agree about there not being a right age to be able to write a great memoir, it is about life experience and sometimes that comes in great doses at young ages. I read a memoir by Latifa
My Forbidden Face: Growing Up Under the Taliban - A Young Woman's Story. She is a young girl who is raised under the Taliban but manages to smuggle her story out. It is powerful and gripping even though she is quite young when she writes it. She experienced more in her life at 12 than I have in all of my 37 years, and that is saying alot given my life. Experience, in my opinion, is the moniker for who can write something that touches us.

[Bloomin’Chick (Jo) aka The Eclectic Spoonie]

I agree Carrie, age doesn't necessarily determine experience by any means!

[Elizabeth (Alaska)]

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Bloomin’Chick (Jo) aka The Eclectic Spoonie]

Elizabeth wrote: "I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree."

Agreed! lol There's nothing wrong with differing opinions! Makes for interesting conversations!

[Sheila , Supporting Chick]

Thinking about memoirs, and how old someone has to be to write one, one book that comes to my mind is Anne Frank: The Diary of a Young Girl. Now I admit, this was just Anne's private diary, and she didn't write it as a memoir, or for publication. But the honesty of this memoir being a private diary makes it that much more emotional. If Anne had survived the camps, and had written her story as an old woman, looking back at life in hiding, would it have had as much impact as it had being written by her as a child?

[Elizabeth (Alaska)]

Anne Frank is a nice story, but I much prefer many of the WWII novels I have read that have adults as the protagonists.

[Elizabeth (Alaska)]

Corkdork wrote: "I read a memoir by Latifa
My Forbidden Face: Growing Up Under the Taliban - A Young Woman's Story. She is a young girl who is raised under the Taliban but manages to smuggle her story out. It is powerful and gripping even though she is quite young when she writes it."

Have you read A Thousand Splendid Suns? I suspect you would find a similar story, told in an interesting way.

[Jennifer W]

For me, it all depends on my mood. I typically have several books that I'm reading at the same time to cover a variety of topics. I like reading non-fiction, especially these days when it seems that everyone wants to write like a novel. Both can be moving to me, although I think fiction tends to pack more of an emotional punch; I think it's created to do so. I'm not much of a memoir reader, I don't know why. I think there's more objectivity when a writer isn't talking about him or herself. I think the truthfulness of non-fiction has come under attack in the last few years, especially after that guy wrote a book and was on Oprah claiming to be a drug addict and it was discovered that he wasn't (A Million Little Pieces). I guess for me, if it's done well, a book can be fiction or non-fiction and still bring out the raw emotions of the human condition.

[Bloomin’Chick (Jo) aka The Eclectic Spoonie]

Elizabeth wrote: "Anne Frank is a nice story, but I much prefer many of the WWII novels I have read that have adults as the protagonists."

Sheila wrote: "Thinking about memoirs, and how old someone has to be to write one, one book that comes to my mind is Anne Frank: The Diary of a Young Girl. Now I admit, this was just Anne's private d..."

It's a matter of preference, to each her own I say! :~)

Sheila, the fact that you've brought up The Diary of Anne Frank does make me wonder as you did, if she had survived and written a memoir using her diary as the basis, would it have had the impact that her diary has had and for so many years? What if she had decided to release it as a fiction based on fact account (say to protect others that were involved at the time the diary takes place, for what ever reason)? What if her father hadn't released the diary as it was, what if he had written the story of his daughter & family like an auto-bio or bio, using only excerpts of the diary? Very interesting aspects to ponder!

[Bloomin’Chick (Jo) aka The Eclectic Spoonie]

Jennifer W wrote: "For me, it all depends on my mood. I typically have several books that I'm reading at the same time to cover a variety of topics. I like reading non-fiction, especially these days when it seems tha..."

UGH! The whole James Frey A Million Little Pieces and more recently Love and Consequences by Margaret B Jones (which, unlike Frey's where he made things up to make his experiences more sensational, hers was 100% fiction) debacles have done so much damage to writers and the nonfiction/memoir genres; I was so angry when each one came to light. Writers as a whole have enough trouble with being taken seriously without people like that doing what they did! Changing names or even places to protect those who do not want to be a part of your book is fine with me but once you start making things up that never happened, that's fiction and should not be released as anything but.

Anyhoo! lol

Again, I appreciate & am enjoying everyone's thoughts on this! Very interesting.

[Elizabeth (Alaska)]

In the Anne Frank vein, you might also try The Hiding Place.

[Cindy]

I think that it all depends on my mood at the time, like others have said. The book that immediately came to mind for me was Antarctic Navigation by Elizabeth Arthur. It was the first book I ordered from PBS and I was excited to read it. I got about 1/2 through it and then discovered that it wasn't a non-fiction book...it was fiction! Don't ask me why I didn't check closer before starting it; just have to chalk it up to one of my 'stupid' moments! Anyway, after finding out it was fiction, I've never been able to get back into it and finish it!
I guess my point is if someone is writing about a place which includes an adventure, I would much rather read a true account of their experiences.
Another book that comes to mind is A Year by the Sea: Thoughts of an Unfinished Woman by Joan Anderson. I really enjoyed this book and feel like I got a lot out of reading about her experience. I don't think I would have gotten as much out of it if it were written as fiction.
There are, however, several books of fiction that have really resonated with me. Some people just have a gift of placing you in their 'fictionalized' world and making you feel like it's all real!

I am really enjoying reading everyone's different viewpoints. Thanks Jo for starting this topic.

[Mary]

The only memoir I've read to date (and I am not a huge fan of the genre) which felt completely honest and unprettified to me was A Piece of Cake: A Memoir by Cupcake Brown. On the otherhand I have read several memoirs, for example Loose Girl: A Memoir of Promiscuity, Smashed: Story of a Drunken Girlhood, Come Back: A Mother and Daughter's Journey Through Hell and Back and The Only Girl in the Car which left me feeling sort of "Eh...so what?"

[Leslie]

Jo wrote: "Jennifer W wrote: "For me, it all depends on my mood. I typically have several books that I'm reading at the same time to cover a variety of topics. I like reading non-fiction, especially these day..."

I couldn't agree more. It makes me angry when people claim a book is non-fiction when it isn't. There is such a fine line and people just mess it up for others who are careful about things. Readers end up questioning the integrity of all memoirists.

[Leslie]

This is a really interesting topic! As far as the age thing goes, I do agree that the age of the person will have a very big impact on the resulting book. A good example is The Burn Journal. A teenage boy got upset about something trivial--to us--bad grades, a breakup, I can't remember what, so he got in the tub, put on a robe, soaked it with gasoline, and lit a match. He survived the long ordeal and pain and operations, etc. I think he was in his early 20's when he wrote this book and it was very good. But it lacked self reflection. He didn't seem to even think about what he did and why. It was like, here I am, on this burn unit, having these skin grafts. What he wrote was very good--he did a good job, but what he didn't write...it should have been there. What if he would have written it when he was 40 instead of 20? Would it be there? Was it more his age or personality that caused the lack of reflection? Who knows? It would have been a different book. So, I do agree to disagree about the age thing, but it's a factor in the resulting book. I think sometimes the young age of the author makes the books better, but sometimes it makes the book less deep than it could have been.

[Elizabeth (Alaska)]

Leslie wrote: "What if he would have written it when he was 40 instead of 20? Would it be there? Was it more his age or personality that caused the lack of reflection? Who knows? It would have been a different book. So, I do agree to disagree about the age thing, but it's a factor in the resulting book. I think sometimes the young age of the author makes the books better, but sometimes it makes the book less deep than it could have been."

This is sort of the point I was trying to make. It is a rare young person to whom life has enough depth.

But I'll have to say I am not at all interested in reading about someone who burned themselves or got into drugs or became a child prostitute or whose teenage years were full of incest and pregnancy. Ugh.

[Carrie]

I have and I loved both that one and The Kite Runner!

[Elizabeth (Alaska)]

As you might have surmised, I don't read many memoirs or auto-biographies. Of the few I've read, this one stands out: An Unquiet Mind: A Memoir of Moods and Madness. Ms Jamison is the leading expert on bipolar disorders and came to her research because of her own experience.

[Leslie]

I really like An Unquiet Mind, that was really good. Have you read Touched by Fire by her?

My mom feels like you do, Elizabeth, about not wanting to read about those kinds of subjects. Lots of people don't like them. Some of us do. Books in which people survive self-imposed or imposed by others, terrible suffering, and come out on the other side seems to have answers to questions I have that I can't even really articulate. I just feel a strong need to read memoirs like this.

[Bloomin’Chick (Jo) aka The Eclectic Spoonie]

Elizabeth wrote: "As you might have surmised, I don't read many memoirs or auto-biographies. Of the few I've read, this one stands out: An Unquiet Mind: A Memoir of Moods and Madness. Ms Jamison is the..."

I read this back in college as a part of my abnormal psych class and I'd forgotten all about it until you mentioned it! Excellent book.

[Jennifer W]

An slight spin-off of Jo's original questions... When reading fiction, do you find you like it better if there's some elements of truth to it? For example, I'm reading The Physick Book of Deliverance Dane and in the author blurb in the back, it mentions how the author is the descendant of 2 women persecuted at the Salem witch trials and I instantly found myself more intrigued with the book.

[Leslie]

I think it would give me an initial boost, but the increased interest would only last if the writing maintained it. So, I would say yes.

[Rose]

Jennifer W wrote: "An slight spin-off of Jo's original questions... When reading fiction, do you find you like it better if there's some elements of truth to it? ..."

Yes, yes! In Kathryn Stockett's book The Help her inspiration was based on her own beloved Demetrie who had raised her.

[Bloomin’Chick (Jo) aka The Eclectic Spoonie]

Jennifer W wrote: "An slight spin-off of Jo's original questions... When reading fiction, do you find you like it better if there's some elements of truth to it? For example, I'm reading The Physick Book of Del..."</i>

Good question Jennifer! This never used to peak my interest in a book until I read [book:Loving Frank and now it does catch my interest more if I know that about a book before reading it. If it happens to be an area of history or what have you that I'm already interested in, like the Salem Witch Trials, all the better. (I read & loved Physick Book!) But like Leslie said, the writing is very important in keeping my interest.