What motivates your rating of a book?

[Bekah, Mod]

If a book moves me - either in a good way or a bad way, if it surprises me, if I can't put it down, and I wake up in the middle of the night thinking about the characters - I will usually give that book a 5 star rating. If it just can't be put down, but doesn't inspire deep emotion from me, it gets a 4. If it's good, but only really ok for me 3 stars. If it was hard to keep my attention on it, and I skim read it (which I HATE doing) it gets 2 stars. If I can't stand the book whatsoever, the characters suck, and it's just irritating beyong words, makes me mad, it gets a 1.

[Danielle The Book Huntress , Sees Love in All Colors]

I think my rating system is similar, Bekah, although an okay book for me is a two star book. But I completely agree with you about a moving book being a five star (or at least high fours).

[Chaeya]

I look at reviews like this, they're individual, so there isn't a set system as to how people rate. In essence, when we put something out there, we get what we get. Some reviews are flat out not fair, but a reader can pretty much discern whether the book is worth reading or not. No matter how many great reviews a book gets, there's always somebody who didn't like it.

About the Stephen King thing, I saw where he was coming from and it isn't jealousy. Stephen is an old school writer and he's been spitting out books a long time. My ex-husband is a writer and he read a lot of literature. People like him will trash Stephanie Meyer.

Writing is an art, like music is an art. Nowadays, people are about sensationalism. The reason a lot of books aren't plot-heavy like the old days is we live in a fast-paced, attention-deficit generation. People don't have time to get wrapped up in heavy plots and long descriptions of things. That's why writers like Stephanie Meyers and J.R. Ward are so popular. They give you lots of action, short little easy to read sentences and not too much detail that would make people actually think too hard. It's McDonald's writing campared to dining at the Ritz-Carlton. If you don't know what I mean, read "Twilight" and then read "Sons and Lovers" by D.H. Lawrence, then one can understand why someone would say Meyers is crap. Of course, old school writers are going to hop in with their opinion when they've worked their butt off and then see some housewife with a couple of books getting handed movie deals, product sales and all that. It's not a literature vs. romance thing either because a lot of the literature is crap. They think because they throw in a bunch of depressing thoughts from the main character, their stuff is meaningful.

I think I'm an easy enough reviewer. I will say I'm a little snobbish because I come from a lot of literature, but the book has to be really bad for me to want to hurl it against a wall. It really isn't the author's fault because regardless of a stage of writing they're in, they will think they are adequate. I look at the stages of my book and when I go back a year ago, I go 'ewww.'

But there has to be a balance, I think, and because of that, sometimes McDonald's style of writing isn't all bad. I'm not a very hard reviewer either despite how snobby I may sound here.

4-5 Stars: Writing 's great or may not be that great, but the characters were engaging, the book makes me think, the book inspires me to go into the author's world and hang out a while. I will definitely read it again.

3 Stars: Okay, I can say I read it, nothing memorable about the book, probably won't read it ever again; or, this book was simply a feel good book for me. The writing may or may not be that good, the story and plot really was stupid, but it made me feel good.

2 Stars: Made it half-way through the book at least. Characters are boring, writing could be adequate or bad, eh. Can't finish it. Tried, just can't.

1 Star: This book sucked major weenie whistles. I can't believe I bought this mess! I can't believe there are company's that really would publish it? I can't believe you think you can write. If it were an actual physical book, I'd take up shooting just so I could shoot it and put it out of its misery. (Whispering: Um, if you think this sounds harsh, there are a few authors who write this bad, I bought one of their books, they're one of those annoying types who think they are just so totally bomb-biggity awesome that they're above reproach about their writing - they're like those horribly bad singers on American Idol Auditions who get surprised when told they suck).

That's me in a nutshell.

[Arch , Mod]

I feel that a writer should never compare another's writer's work to another writers and definitely shouldn't say a writer doesn't know how to write, etc. because they didn't go to school to learn how to write.

But, a writer can have an opinion and should always stick to their opinion. But, they should also know that an opinion doesn't make something right.

Writing is my eyes will always be about storytelling. Every writer tells a story different.

If Stephen would read my stories, he'll probably say they suck and I wouldn't care if he did say they suck. I'm a writing that knows how to tell a story. That's one thing a writer or even reader would never be able to take away from a writer.

[Chaeya]

But Arch, if they say another writer sucks, that is their opinion, yeah? I'm a singer/musician and if you want to see egos in motion, in that field, they don't hesitate to say you suck. You know if someone can play or sing. I don't see writing as any different. Now, if a person isn't out there trying to get money out of people and they write for fun, then who cares?

A review of anything is going to be based upon a comparison or a point of reference. And that reference is going to be based on that person's opinion. It doesn't mean you're comparing content, it goes way beyond that. You have writers out there who write strictly for money, writers who think "oh boy this is easy, I can do that" and they do it. You have people who just dive in and write a book because they have a college degree in English. And honestly, some of them are way too overconfident about their skills and do not respect the art. They write a book and they want all their friends and family to praise them, so they can go on Oprah. It is an art. It has to be honed like anything else. That writer should always be writing and trying to better their craft if they take it seriously and if they definitely are looking to doing it as a profession.

School doesn't mean anything to me. I'm of the opinion that school can't teach you how to write or how to make good music. That's something that comes from the soul. School can teach you the mechanics and give you the tools necessary to make it better and give you things to think about. I hear musicians talk about how great they are because they went to school and can read music. If you look at a lot of writers, they have college degrees, they say they work in an office and read and write contracts for a living that's why they can write. That doesn't mean you can write or can make music. Somebody may think so, but it really comes down to public opinion or how easily they become swayed by marketing.

But in the end, it's all opinion and I doubt someone's opinion is going to stop someone from doing what they love. I'm sure Stephanie Meyer cried herself to sleep because Stephen King said she couldn't write. I'm sure she suffered because a person walked into Border's and decided not to get Twilight because King didn't like her writing. Hell, Stephen probably would say I couldn't write and it isn't going to matter one darn bit. I'll still write and I'll still do what I do. That's the bottom line.

[Arch , Mod]

Chaeya wrote: "But Arch, if they say another writer sucks, that is their opinion, yeah? I'm a singer/musician and if you want to see egos in motion, in that field, they don't hesitate to say you suck. You know if someone can play or sing. I don't see writing as any different. Now, if a person isn't out there trying to get money out of people and they write for fun, then who cares?"

How can a person tell if another person can write or not write?

I write for fun. I honestly don't desire to be published and if I ever decide to write a book, I still wouldn't care what people say about me, because I know the truth.

Now, Chaeya if you don't mind me asking. Have you read any of my story? If yes, tell me honestly if you think that I am a terrible writer. Don't worry, it will not hurt my feelings.

If anyone on this group was to tell me my story sucks. It wouldn't hurt my feelings.

I'm still a storyteller. I don't have to learn how to tell a story.

I still strongly feel that Mr. King shouldn't have said that Mrs. Meyer was a horrible writer, just because she didn't go to school, etc. to learn how to write.

I didn't take up creative writing. Yet, I know how to tell a story.

Another thing, I feel that every publish author should see writing as being fun. They should write for fun, even if writing is how they bring home the bacon.

[Chaeya]

You can tell if a person can write or not. My ex-husband's friend wrote a book. He went on and on about all these esoteric teachings in the writings. So he finished it and sent it to him. I asked my ex what he thought and he said it was, well let's say that "horrible" was the nicest word he used. I thought he was being too harsh and I asked him to send it to me. It was horrible. Sorry, but I need punctuation. The sentences rambled on, you didn't know which character was speaking, then he'd shift, no, thrust you into a whole new scene and you didn't even know the conclusion of the last one. I still don't know what the book was about or where it was going halfway through it. Yes, I believe there are some people who can't write. And I just wasted $1.99 on a book from Red Rose Publishing three months ago and it was on my rating scale a 1. I didn't know that someone could write almost an entire story starting every sentence off with an "ing" word. Now it's possible the author wasn't aware of this because when you get sucked so into your own story, it's hard to see the writing flaws. Still, her publishing company shouldn't have let that book get published in the state it was in and the story was weak, sadly so. Things were happening that didn't make sense, points in the story which should have been elaborated on weren't. I was very interested in the subject matter of the book, but the story just fizzled out.

Stephen King isn't the first author to tell another author they can't write and he won't be the last. One of the funniest quips I can think of is William Faulkner talking about Ernest Hemingway: “He has never been known to use a word that might send a reader to the dictionary.” Hemingway replied “Poor Faulkner. Does he really think big emotions come from big words?”

I think most authors write for fun, and they have fun with it. I write all the time, so it's second nature for me. Journaling, writing for business and such is far different than writing a fiction story. I have been writing stories since high school, but I never showed them to anyone. I thought I was a good storyteller too until I finally decided to get out there. My friends said they loved it, but my first critique partner said "I can't read this." Then she let loose a long list of all the writing faux pas I had committed. For the past two years, I've felt like I had to learn how to write all over again. It is frustrating at times because when you begin learning the rules, you realize that you will never stop learning.

Arch, if you want to write for fun and you're happy with yourself where you are, then so be it. But if it is as you say, I find it interesting that you react so strongly to Mr. King. Why do you care so much if other writers and readers criticize other writers? I think on some level you really do want to be published but you're afraid, so you hide behind the "writing for fun" tag. When someone criticizes you, you get to run and hide behind your tag. And I'm not trying to be mean here either. You feel very strongly about writing, but your fear gets the better of you.

[Chaeya]

Oh and Arch, yes, I've read your writings and here's what I think: you can write and you are a storyteller. If you ever got a critique partner or delved into some online classes, workshops and got a few books on writing, you could be awesome. You don't need an awful lot of work like some people, just someone to nudge you on the path and correct the things you're doing wrong. There, now you know what I think. ;o)

[Arch , Mod]

Chaeya wrote: "Arch, if you want to write for fun and you're happy with yourself where you are, then so be it. But if it is as you say, I find it interesting that you react so strongly to Mr. King. Why do you care so much if other writers and readers criticize other writers? I think on some level you really do want to be published but you're afraid, so you hide behind the "writing for fun" tag. When someone criticizes you, you get to run and hide behind your tag. And I'm not trying to be mean here either. You feel very strongly about writing, but your fear gets the better of you."

Chaeya,

I'm not secretly wanting to get published. I honestly don't desire to get published.

I've came across a lot of people, as soon as they find out that I am a writer, the first thing they ask me. Have you gotten anything published. When I tell them no, they wonder if I will send things off to get published and they are shocked, when I tell them no.

I honestly don't care to get published.

Writing is a passion of mine and I know that writing is not easy. Yet, it's my talent.

It's Stephen opinion that Ms. Meyer doesn't know how to write.

A lot of people likes her books and they can understand them well.

[Arch , Mod]

Chaeya wrote: "Oh and Arch, yes, I've read your writings and here's what I think: you can write and you are a storyteller. If you ever got a critique partner or delved into some online classes, workshops and got a few books on writing, you could be awesome. You don't need an awful lot of work like some people, just someone to nudge you on the path and correct the things you're doing wrong. There, now you know what I think. ;o)"

Thanks for your sharing your opinion with me Chaeya.

I have stated this before and yes, I am about to state it again. Writing is my talent and just because it's my talent. That doesn't mean that my writing can't be perfected.

I have a lot of writing material.

I know my stories suck; they are horrible. I am not afraid to admit that. Yet, it doesn't take away from me having the gift of writing.

I don't write like an author. I don't even write poems like Maya Angelou.

Again, thank you for your opinion.

[Chaeya]

So if it's a passion of yours, why do you say your stories are horrible? That you have a gift, but don't wish to perfect it? That you sit there and down yourself and your "gift". I have a talent, but it sucks? So rather than hone myself, work on myself, perfect myself I'll sit here and as a talented storyteller pump out imperfect stories. It doesn't matter whether you want to be published or not, you can sit there and argue with me back and forth about how you don't want to be a professional and I'm wrong about you, but when you put your stories here on Goodreads available for anyone who joins this group, you are, in essence, publishing yourself, representing yourself as a writer. If you truly didn't care, you wouldn't defend it so ernestly nor would you care what other writers think. It's safe to say, your stories are horrible, so that's where you dwell.

In the previous paragraph you pretty much laid out your ten commandments about how you think other writers should behave. A writer who just writes horrible stories for fun wouldn't be so opinionated.

The masses like what they are told to like. You'll have an initial bunch who goes "hey that's good" and once it reaches the ears of the publishing company, they find where to direct their marketing, so the rest of the minions can come forth. Meyer is a voice of this generation. People liked her story because some adults and young prepubescent girls took a fancy to it. If the young girls didn't like it and want the Edward t-shirts, the chapstick, the necklaces, Meyer would be just another Romance writer. This country is about how we can take an idea and make as much money as we can off it. It isn't because she's a super talented writer.

You have two types of fame - those who are just so good you can't ignore them and those who just caught the attention of the right people or person. Meyer got lucky. Meyer's publishing company was smart. The movie was marketed to teens, and they crammed Hot Topic with every item they could sell to teens. That's why she's huge. The same reason why the recording industry markets to young people. If she's smart, she'll milk the Twilight series like Rowling milked Harry Potter, and make herself a nice retirement plan. The problem with too much too soon is rarely can these people follow it up with something which will keep the momentum.

I will say that I have sat on my own book longer than I should have. Fear is part of my problem and time is another. It took five years to get my company off the ground mainly for fear. Now my company is taking off. The fear is still there, but I use the fear to keep striving to be better. The same with my writing. The fear holds me back, but I take baby steps. Then there's something else . . .

Some writers simply throw their stories out there with the belief it is what it is and they're a talented writer. E-publishers who lack experienced editors or who flat out don't care publish these authors. The Internet with all its easy glory has gathered millions and millions of people who deem themselves talented writers. They clog up the Internet with all their stories. They all have passion. To the point where I have to walk away from it. When everyone's doing it, with little need to perfect themselves, other than the time it took to create their piece, it's like wading through a river chocked full of debris. You have to meticulously sift through it all just to find the gemstones. It gets tiring. I have all but disengaged myself from most of the author sites I belong to because it's just other authors "read my stuff" "read my story" "my book is out." When my book does come out, I honestly don't want to put it out on the Internet. I'll sell it at my market booths. I don't have a lot of physical time these days, so I can't reciprocate reads to get my story read by others. I come here on this board because I simply like to organize my thoughts and hang around readers and people who write for fun (wink) (wink) - even if I do give you a hard time, Arch. There are interesting, thought-provoking discussions here.

And I have to cut this short because I have a market to do and I started rambling. Writing is a passion of mine as well, but I set goals for myself because it makes it fun to strive for something. That's all.

[Arch , Mod]

Chaeya wrote: "So if it's a passion of yours, why do you say your stories are horrible? That you have a gift, but don't wish to perfect it? That you sit there and down yourself and your "gift". I have a talent, but it sucks? So rather than hone myself, work on myself, perfect myself I'll sit here and as a talented storyteller pump out imperfect stories. It doesn't matter whether you want to be published or not, you can sit there and argue with me back and forth about how you don't want to be a professional and I'm wrong about you, but when you put your stories here on Goodreads available for anyone who joins this group, you are, in essence, publishing yourself, representing yourself as a writer. If you truly didn't care, you wouldn't defend it so ernestly nor would you care what other writers think. It's safe to say, your stories are horrible, so that's where you dwell."

Chaeya,

I'm my own worst critic.

I have never said that I didn't want to perfect my writing. I'm always saying that just because writing is my talent, it doesn't mean that I can't learn more about writing, to perfect my writing.

Just because a person has a talent, it doesn't mean that they can't have it perfected.

I don't want to get published. When it comes down to my writing, I am very shy. Yes, I have posted my story here. I've done so, to kind of get out of my shyness. It's nothing for me to write stories for myself. Which, all the stories that I write, I write for myeslf. But, I am talkig about writing stories that no one else sees, but me. I have been doing that for years.

I need to make myself clear. When I say that I don't desire to get anything published, I am talking about writing a book or books, to send off to a publishing house to get it published. I don't want to see my work in stores one day. That's not my desire. It may be some of you desire, but that's not mine.

I have family members that knows that I write, wonder why I don't write to get published.

Why can't a person have a gift and not want to get published.

If I had the gift of singing. I wouldn't want a record deal.

I thank God for my gift.

[Chaeya]

Okay, Arch, you have a point. With the publishing world as it stands, I don't want to play the game either.

[Arch , Mod]

Chaeya wrote: "Okay, Arch, you have a point. With the publishing world as it stands, I don't want to play the game either."

I enjoy writing for fun.

The stories that I write for the challenges are a part of the writing cake.

If you desire to get published Chaeya, go for it. Follow your dream.

[Chaeya]

I'm already in the making, but I'm self-publishing. I've weighed the pros and cons and I really don't want a company telling what I can and can't say, I want control of my cover art and I want to have my own deadlines. I care more for the art of it than I do the prestige of it. I can't write very fast, so my books will get published when I'm able to publish them. I have my own venues I sell at, I have a lot of friends who are shopowners here in Los Angeles, so I can easily put my book in their stores.

To me, the feather in my cap is not whether or not I was accepted by an agent or a publishing company, but the fact that I did it all myself and my way. ;o)

[Arch , Mod]

Chaeya wrote: "I'm already in the making, but I'm self-publishing. I've weighed the pros and cons and I really don't want a company telling what I can and can't say, I want control of my cover art and I want to ..."

That's good that you want to walk with your own feet.

Keep doing what you feel is best for you.

[Bekah, Mod]

Arch wrote: "Chaeya wrote: "But Arch, if they say another writer sucks, that is their opinion, yeah? I'm a singer/musician and if you want to see egos in motion, in that field, they don't hesitate to say you su..."

I get what you're sayin Arch. Let me just throw this in the mix... it's totally out there...but it sorta just floors me. :-)

I think that Taylor Swift sucks .. like big time.. the girl can not sing...what she does is sorta "sing" in a monotone sort of tune. But clearly, I am wrong, cuz she has won every freakin award out there! I think she should go into comedic acting...she was FABULOUS on SNL. Write songs, they're cute, please stop singing!

But...just my opinion! :-)

[Yolonda]

Bekah wrote: "Arch wrote: "Chaeya wrote: "But Arch, if they say another writer sucks, that is their opinion, yeah? I'm a singer/musician and if you want to see egos in motion, in that field, they don't hesitate ..."

Preach!

[Danielle The Book Huntress , Sees Love in All Colors]

I have to agree with you, Bekah. I am not impressed with her singing skills. I don't agree with what Kanye did, but Beyonce is a much better singer than Taylor.

[Arch , Mod]

Bekah wrote:"I get what you're sayin Arch. Let me just throw this in the mix... it's totally out there...but it sorta just floors me. :-)

I think that Taylor Swift sucks .. like big time.. the girl can not sing...what she does is sorta "sing" in a monotone sort of tune. But clearly, I am wrong, cuz she has won every freakin award out there! I think she should go into comedic acting...she was FABULOUS on SNL. Write songs, they're cute, please stop singing!

But...just my opinion! :-)"

I don't listen to Taylor's music or any of the other artist's music. I do know that a lot of the artist that are making big bucks and winning awards or not winning awards can't sing or should I say carry a note.

Everyone can sing, but not everyone can carry a note.

[Yolonda]

Danielle "The Book Huntress" wrote: "I have to agree with you, Bekah. I am not impressed with her singing skills. I don't agree with what Kanye did, but Beyonce is a much better singer than Taylor."

As far as I'm concerned, Taylor Swift needs to send Kanye a thank you card. It's amazing how far sympathy can go.

[Chaeya]

I'm with you Loni. Such is the b.s. called the music industry. I could write a book on the nonsense, but I'm trying to avoid being too negative.

[Alicia]

Davina wrote: "I seem to rarely experience 5* reads.

This got me thinking because a lot of my Ami/Goodreads friends never seem to have any ratings below 5 or 4 stars. There's the occasional 3 star rating but ..."

My book rating criteria is very close to Davina's. I am also beginning to take note of editing. I get so annoyed when a book is full of grammatical errors and typos. I feel that that a book chock full of errors shows little respect for the reader. So, a poorly edited book can affect my rating of a novel.

And when I give a book a "5" rating, It's a story that I wish I could live, in the case of a romance, or it's a story that I admire greatly, in the case of non-fiction and most other genres. Novels meriting a five-star ratings touch me on a personal level.

Sorry to be so late to the discussion...I'm catching up.

[Davina]

No worries, Alicia. It's never too late to join any conversation.

And what you said about poorly edited books being a disrespect to the readers, gosh don't even get me started on that again! lol. We had this discussion some weeks ago and I pretty much I agree with you wholeheartedly. It'll also have some influence on my rating, though probably not as heavily as the 3 criteria I mentioned.

Though print books are also fraught with poor editing, I've found its even more common among e-books, especially those from smaller independent presses. That's why I shy away from reading them and its most unfortunate because I'm sure there are some great stories out there.

[Alicia]

Sadly, I find that ebooks are frequently not very well edited. Too bad as really prefer this media to paper books.

Lately, I've been reading more paper books and in the middle, I find myself thinking "gosh, it's a pleasure not to have to decipher typos and grammatical errors."

I am known to make a typo or two myself. But, I am pledging to proof my first published piece very carefully.