Banned Books discussion
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Oh no! They might LEARN something!
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Pandora Kat wrote: "As a libraian I have to add my two cents. I noticed that Esther made a comment about her library not being a Community Center. Which might be fine for her area since they already have one. In my..."I have to agree with you on this....I live in an inner city area and the library is often the only place for the kids to go to for anything. Our branch library is the only free and open place for at least a mile around (in an area with a lot of walkers) The kids do go for more than just books, but no matter how much time they spend on the computers they always seen to take home a book or two. Our main downtown library servers even more community purpose, having a auditorium, classrooms, and yes lots of computers in addition to the books. They also have a bookstore where they sell donations and discards to benefit the library. MOst of the books in my home came from there. Again, it is the only such available family space in the downtown area. Though deep in rust belt recession our community has always supported out libraries, and a few years ago voted extra money to rebuild all of them to provide better technology hookups, more meeting space and more book space.
Pandora Kat wrote: "As a libraian I have to add my two cents. I noticed that Esther made a comment about her library not being a Community Center. Which might be fine for her area since they already have one. In my..."My question would be whether you have turned your whole library into a community centre? Are there still quiet places to read and study?
Otherwise you are basically destroying one resource in order to create another.
Our library is basically a large room and the presence of computer games turned the place into a noisy club house - so noisy people couldn't read and most of the adult patrons avoided the evenings if they possibly could.
And why is it considered snobbery to try and cater for a section of the population who prefer peace and quiet? Or is it just easier to ignore us because we complain less loudly?
Put up a display of graphic novels near the computer stations to lure them into the books.
We discovered this to be a fallacy. Without exception the computer gamers reaction was 'Yuk, books!'
Yet once the games were banned some of our most avid gamers turned to books to pass the boredom and have become avid readers.
I don't think its snobbery to cater to peace and quiet and I don't recall ever insinuating that it was. I think your concerns are legitimate, but so are those of other patrons.Perhaps there is a way to organize the use of space in your library so that the peace and quiet is preserved in areas and a little more activity in another area is okay. That's what has been done in our public library. Every user is accomodated without it being at the expense of another. Our public libraries are in many instances attached physically and functionally to the High Schools. There are many, many students present at all hours. And yet I have never had an issue with the noise levels. Of course headphones are at every work station. There are seperate spaces for computers and reading.
I find it hard to believe that gamers wouldn't be interested in the graphic novels that are out there, especially since many of the games are based on the graphic novels or the novels are based on the games. I have used this to great effect in my JHS library for those who hate books. I then can steer them to some more substantial graphic novels like Malice and City Of Light, City Of Dark.
Christine wrote: "I don't think its snobbery to cater to peace and quiet and I don't recall ever insinuating that it was. I think your concerns are legitimate, but so are those of other patrons.Perhaps there is ..."
My library is in an underdeveloped area where the previous generation was at best semi-literate and there is no library culture at all. Many parents are of the opinion that libraries are only for children and can be used as a babysitting service.
When we tried outreach one of the two primary (grade) schools wasn't interested and the kindergarten teachers abandoned the children in the library in order to have a coffee and a rest in the staff room!
Even the manager of the community centre compared a library to a cemetery and a coordinator claimed that preventing children from doing cartwheels in the library was oppressing their creativity.
There is no possibility of reorganising our space - we can't even can convince the 'powers that be' to treat the mould and paint our interior walls.
And all our headphones were broken or stolen with a week of purchase.
On other hand there are many children that rely on the library to be able to complete their homework using resources that are not available to them at home. Our computers are now fully occupied with children doing school projects.
In additional we have another section of the population with a strong library culture and they have remarked how pleasant the library has become - now they also can enjoy activities in the community setting.
I do not believe video games should be in the library....sure I think it is fine to offer them to rent for at home, but in no way should the library cater to "gamers".... It is quite distracting and loud (even with headphones) to patrons who are there for books. As far as making the library a community center....I think that is great, but you can do it without video games (Too many kids get sucked in). You wouldn't put a basketball court inside so why put video games inside....just to cater to those who play. There is nothing wrong with having a board game night or even a video game night, but in no way should video games be offered on a daily basis where others are distracted and disturbed. It is time to pull kids into reading....not oh come to the library and play video games.....that is NOT what a library is......I can certainly see a section for movies and games and music, but ultimately the library is there to rent those items (as well as books) and to provide a sanctuary to those who need the place to study and read....a lot of people (kids) go to the library to work on school projects or use the computer for research.....video games should be out in my opinion. I know I stopped going to the library...too much noise and too many distractions.....
When a library "multi tasks" I think it stops being a library and starts being a community centre. I know a few pubs with bookshelves...doesn't make them libraries, still pubs. I think that the dominance of books is what makes a library.
As for Esther question yes we do have quite zones. The library I work for is lucky enough to have four floors. I always point out to people the higher you go the quiter it gets. I also work in an area where we do have a poplution that doesn't always understand what a library is. Part of our function is to educate them. Some people find it amazing that they can take out stuff for free.
As for baby sitting service. That has been a problem for us to but, when people realize that we will call the police in the problem stops.
As for headphones. We also tried to hand them and they kept breaking. Solution is we now sell headphones to those who want them or they bring in their own or do without.
I also had to deal with having TV sets put into the library. How that happened is beyond me. Though I suspect Goverment graft. Though I couldn't get rid of the TV I did pull the cable. No recepetion no more problem of having it turned on.
As I see it if a library doesn't adpat and find a way to be necessary for its whole community it is liable to die. A point my college professor made is that Danielle Steele fans still, pay taxes. The more people you become important to you in the community the more support you will recieve.
Just look at Boders and Barnes and Noble. Both had to deal with Amazon. Boders buried it's head in the sand and refused to look into the internet till it was too late. Barnes and Noble quickly adapted and opened it's own internet store. Morale Barnes & Noble is still around in brick and virtual. Has anyone see a Booders bookstore?
Another example. When I started work in the library I am at it was in an old building that was a health hazard. Now it is in a large redesigned factory building. That is bright, feels new, and is a gem of place to work in even if they did block our view with condos.
My point is yes it gets complicated when the library reachs out beyond being just a building of books. Change is not easy. Yet, if we are to prevent a society like Farhieinet 451 it does mean you have to move beyond the comfort zone of only serving bibilophiles.
I do know that my best days as a libraian is why I see myself as an information specilist and lover of books who mission is to enrich and help patrons. My worst days is when I see myself as the custodian of books.
We all have such different demographics I think its impossible to have one solution for all. We all have to respond to what works and change what doesn't. We are all trying to find ways to be relevant in an electronic age and attract new patrons as well as keep the ones we have. We still have huge Borders stores in Arizona. I am so glad too, because they seem to carry different publishers and merchandise.
I have a huge borders store just down the road from me!when I went to the library the other day, there was a sign on the door that literally said, feel free to drop your kids off, but if they aren't picked up by closing they go to the police station...the fact that something like that needs to be posted blows my mind...I mean, my mom used to drop me off at the library on the weekend...I had to walk home (it was about a mile) and be home before dark...I know you can't do that now...but seriously, make arrangements to pick up your kids
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when I went to the library the other day, there was a sign on the door that literally said, feel free to drop your kids off, but if they a..."
That message really does blow your mind. And, just think how any children sent to the police station would feel, being transported there because their parents did not bother to pick them up at the library, poor kids.
the library actually has a cop who sits there after about 6pm most nights
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That's just sad, sigh. But, I guess it's better to be safe than sorry, and all it takes are a few troublemakers to create chaos.
that is true...i just did a double take when i walked in there one night...
It is unfortunate, but for some reason some parents feel it is just fine to have their kids at the library up to and after closing. You wouldn't leave your kids at the mall like that, but they feel nothing wrong about doing it at the library.
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Idiocracy is starting to happen. The average IQ in the US is actually 98 now instead of 100.
Pandora Kat said everything I wanted to say about libraries that I wanted to say but much more eloquent. Teenagers want to access MySpace, which I hate, but social networking is a huge thing for teens as well as adults. Poor kids without access to computers cannot participate in this without an access to computers and feel left out and ostracized. There are lots of problems with MySpace but denying access to one group of kids because they can't afford it is only increasing the separation between the classes. It's the only way I can get my daughter in a library now. She hangs out there and even occasionally will pick up a book when she's looking through the cds and dvds.
I appreciate the need to have a calmer more peaceful library. But I respectfully disagree on how to deal with it. I agree the library should not cater to computer games at all as that is not the point (and I speak as someone spends way too much time playing computer games) but libraries are about information and what has more info than the Internet. And why does someone have to be working a specific project? That's like saying a kid can only check out books that have to do with their project on sea life but can't look at a book about dinosaurs.
Our libraries are pretty quiet for several reasons: Only one person is allowed to use a computer at a time so there is little talking noise. (This rule can be problematic when people are working on a project together but they can get computers side by side.) Also, there are big industrial sized headphones attached at every station. (No one wants these ugly things.) Computers can only be reserved for a set amount of time ranging from 15 to 60 minutes at most libraries with some up to 2 hours. Yes, the librarians and techs have to spend some time enforcing the rules but this is not a real problem at my current library. It's more of a problem in poor areas where the needs is so much greater that it is sometimes almost impossible to even get on a computer. That tells me that it's really important. I think computer literacy is very important. Also, part of the evolution of libraries is that they're not just about books anymore, they're about information. The library program at the U of Washington is called Information Science now to reflect the changing nature of libraries.
Also, as a person who loves peace and quiet and abhors loudness, there are many places for me to find that. The purpose of a library is not to provide peace and quiet, although that is nice, but to provide information. Quiet is a very cultural idea, and our WASP culture is in the minority for that need. People can check books out and read elsewhere. They can't take computers home usually. And there are no other places I know of where kids have free access to computers. So I do have a problem with putting the needs of some patrons over the needs of the poor. Your library is also saying kids have access to much less than adults. The stacks also absorb sounds so even in noisier libraries I've never had a problem finding a place I can relax and read. I'm sure people are happier but the ones that aren't probably just left. Our library has homework club, too, which involves talking and can be loud.
Barbarossa: I'm with you philosophically but most libraries I've seen get computers pre-installed with OS's and never ever update them. They can't afford to. They also can't afford to replace all the existing OS's with Linux because they don't have the staff hours. Their tech people are busy enough with keeping old computers running.
Joseph: It depends on their age. I let middle school aged children hang out by themselves. But I am always available by phone, set a finite time that is short and only increases as the kids show responsibility, and I arrange a specific time and place to pick them up. I actually feel less secure about doing that at the library because I don't want them to be too loud and disrupt the place. :)
Kelly wrote: "I'm with you philosophically but most libraries I've seen get computers pre-installed with OS's and never ever update them. They can't afford to. They also can't afford to replace all the existing OS's with Linux because they don't have the staff hours. Their tech people are busy enough with keeping old computers running...."It's a doddle, download the OS (there are a couple that spring to mind: http://www.qimo4kids.com/ and http://edubuntu.org/) then just burn them as ISOs to disc and boot your machines from the disc drive and install. Free.
More money for books...you know...the things that folk will be reading when the electricity runs out...or when it becomes cool to get retro and print the e-books.
Old-Barbarossa wrote: "Kelly wrote: "I'm with you philosophically but most libraries I've seen get computers pre-installed with OS's and never ever update them. They can't afford to. They also can't afford to replace all..."I realise that many places will be dictated to by local policy and have to buy into Windows. Sorry, I'm a bit evangelical when it comes to this. Just noticed I posted the same links above earlier. Ooops!
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On top of that, you are right about policy. Microsoft gives a lot of computers away free and it would be ridiculous and rude to then turn around and install a different OS on brand new computers. In our area, a lot of non-profits get help from tech nonprofit that provides tech support, training and IT help. Since most people use Windows, that's what they use. So a lot of services would no longer be available. And my library is in Microsoft country--Seattle--so it just ain't gonna happen here.
I do understand and I do love UNIX but for people who know nothing about computers, Windows is much easier, as much because of the free support they get from their Windows savvy friends as anything else.
Banned Books
Books mentioned in this topic
City of Light, City of Dark (other topics)Malice (other topics)
Harvesting Hope: The Story of Cesar Chavez (other topics)
Martina the Beautiful Cockroach: A Cuban Folktale (other topics)
With budgets being tightened etc in these times and the looming Windows 7, if you are involved in a library why not use free OS for your public use computers? Chances are they'll be faster and the OS and software are free so more money for books...free no matter how many machines you instal onto. Less to worry about virus wise as they're Linux based and can be run from cd to avoid cluttering the hard drive.
2 worth a look are:
http://www.qimo4kids.com/
http://edubuntu.org/
As I said: more money for books.