do math teachers influence your fear or lack of fear of math? And, does gender define mathematical ability? Plus, RA crossdresses AGAIN!

[RandomAnthony]

I remember we talked about "math fear" just a bit a few months ago, but an interesting study about female math teachers potentially negatively influencing female students' perceptions of math came out and the issue popped in my head again:

http://www.latimes.com/features/healt...

What do you think? Where do you stand on math fear?

[Arminius]

I think that maybe girls are drawn to reading at the expense of math. Boys grow up watching sports where math plays a role.

[Matthieu]

I was completely indifferent towards all of my math teachers.

[Jackie "the Librarian"]

I'm afraid of this thread... ;)

[Sarah]

Yes yes yes to the initial question. As I said in the "What was your worst grade?" thread, I was working two years ahead in math from 6th grade until calculus until I got hit with two awful teachers in a row. The first one was a predatory ass who looked like Rasputin and had insects nesting in his beard and drank spiked tea from a thermos and eventually ran off with a student to do pottery and follow the Dead; the second was the jerk who gave me the D because he d idn't like how I got to the right answers.
After that I took the bare minimum requirements in college and got out of the sciences because I didn't want to deal with math anymore.

[Jackie "the Librarian"]

Huh, I'm realizing, reading this, that some of my failure in math was because of my awful teachers, not ME. The basketball coach taught Algebra II poorly, and Professor White taught Trigonometry incomprehensibly, with very old, cryptic textbooks.
Now I'm pissed. :\

[Sally, la reina]

This makes me sad. The one really excellent Algebra teacher I had in middle school worked so hard to make sure that we all understood and were able to keep up.
It was the male math teachers after her that failed me.

[Kevin]

i have never really thought about a fear of math but i guess i sorta do since i really avoid math. actually, i rarely use math. i know what you all are thinking, "ol liso is so thick that he doesn't even think he uses math" and you are going to say "you use it every day". well, if i do, i never do intentionally or think about it. i wouldn't know geometry from geology

[Sally, la reina]

I bet you use math in the same slapdash manner you use punctuation.

[Kevin]

i am slapdash.

[RandomAnthony]

Jackie "the Librarian" wrote: "Huh, I'm realizing, reading this, that some of my failure in math was because of my awful teachers, not ME. The basketball coach taught Algebra II poorly, and Professor White taught Trigonometry in..."

I have some of this too. Well, not for Algebra, I had a great freshman Algebra teacher (rest in peace, Mr. Sekulski) but my sophomore geometry teacher was a football coach who clearly was a football coach first and geometry coach second. And I kind of like geometry, but not with him.

[[deleted user]]

Arminius wrote: "I think that maybe girls are drawn to reading at the expense of math. Boys grow up watching sports where math plays a role. "

I don't know... You never needed to know linear equations to figure out who won the Leafs and Canadiens game.

[Sarah]

I liked math until the teachers ruined it. I still like it, really, but I lost the desire to progress.

Baseball fans - male and female - seem to have a crazy love for statistics that I don't see in most other sports fans.

I don't buy "boys grew up watching sports where math plays a role" as an explanation.

[Kevin]

hey sarah, i do you math lots and lots with baseball (and other sports) statistics (albeit in a slapdash way)

thanks for the reminder.

[Kevin]

yes, that is interesting. not that i care about numbers or anything

[Arminius]

My point about boys:

For example, our team is losing 49 to 28. So we need to subtract to find out how much we need to win.

Boys watch football. Each touchdown is 6 points + 1 point for the extra point. So we multiply by 7 (in most cases) when a team scores.

Batting averages are calculated by dividing the number of hits by the number of at bats.

And there are a lot of other statistical mathematical calculations that an avid sports fan looks at.

[Sarah]

Oh, I see.

Whereas girls are busy having tea parties, so we learn how to construct narratives, and thus to read and write.

[Jackie "the Librarian"]

Sure, the only numbers girls need are for counting calories, right?

Grrr...

[Sarah]

Actually, that explains a lot, now that I think of it!

No wonder Americans are the wonders of the mathematical world!
Our menfolk learn to multiply by sevens because of American football, and to manipulate all kinds of statistics in baseball, and to tell time by the shot clock in basketball.
Meanwhile, the rest of the world's menfolk make do with soccer, where goals are rare, and only count for one point each.

[Jackie "the Librarian"]

And so, cricket is the reason for the downfall of the British Empire, then, Sarah?

[RandomAnthony]

I wear a dress when I bake:)

(This is my second cross-dressing post in three minutes. Cheap laughs, really...or something else?)

[Sarah]

Exactly! That's some crazy excuse for mathematics right there.

[[deleted user]]

Get back here and take your deserved whooping from these non athletic types Arminius.

[Sally, la reina]

Americans are the mathematical wonders of the world? This world?

[Arminius]

I am not sure why girls are more drawn to reading than boys. Maybe I am wrong about that.

Also, girls who take a liking to math seem better in it than boys, at least in my experience.

[Sally, la reina]

I think that Arminius and RA are living in some twisted time warp gender boundary dimension in which RA is the wife and Arminius is the beer guzzling opinion having barca lounger dad.

[RandomAnthony]

Sally wrote: "I think that Arminius and RA are living in some twisted time warp gender boundary dimension in which RA is the wife and Arminius is the beer guzzling opinion having barca lounger dad."

Am I as hot as that secretary in Mad Men?

[Lori]

Well, if girls are in the kitchen cooking, they learn about math there! Hmm, if I'm doubling or reducing a recipe, how do I figure to get the right amount. Hey, that's more advanced math than just adding scores, right?

[Sally, la reina]

No, RA, you are just a tranny in a dress. But you have cute shoes.

[RandomAnthony]

BunWat wrote: "Sally wrote: "Americans are the mathematical wonders of the world? This world? "

Well sure, in the sense that the two headed boy is the wonder of the sideshow.

Would you like to borrow a frock?"

Heh, Buns, thanks for putting that image in people's heads...I owe you one...and sure, you ladies pull out your Singer machines and get to work!:)

[Lori]

Don't hurt yourself, Bun. Or the keyboard!

[Arminius]

I am talking about kids. It all evens out eventually.

But I hadn't had so much fun since I had to defend President Bush for doing a good job from some of the goodreads gang.

[Lori]

Well, I have a boy who has been super athletic from the time he was a tyke, he did followed all types of sports and now plays football on a serious basis. And he's terrible at math but excellent at reading (when he finds the right book). Part of it is just the brain works, but I think a much larger part was his first K-1 teacher. There's so much more stress on academics these days at a very young age, and he was much too squirrely at age 5 and 6 to sit still for the hour of math. And she made him feel quite incompetent because he just wasn't interested, in fact called a big meeting to discuss drugs for ADHD, instead of understanding he just wasn't ready to sit still and do math when he was 6. for the next several years he had a complete block against math and ignored it in elementary school because he was "bad" at it. In 6th grade he had a teacher who made it fun - a female math teacher! But to this day he still struggles with math because his confidence in his ability was so shattered.

[Sarah]

Arminius wrote: "I am talking about kids. It all evens out eventually."

If I were to make sweeping stereotypes about gender and aptitude, I would probably reverse that, since pressures about gender roles and appropriate skills and professions don't usually kick in until later.

Also, I would probably find some statistics to back up my claim.

[Félix]

And so on.

[RandomAnthony]

But I hadn't had so much fun since I had to defend President Bush for doing a good job from some of the goodreads gang.

Heh. I appreciate that attitude, sir...way to engage in the debate, even when people are questioning your logic (in a good, searching for the truth way). This is a good conversation.

[Arminius]

Sarah Pi wrote: "Arminius wrote: "I am talking about kids. It all evens out eventually."

If I were to make sweeping stereotypes about gender and aptitude, I would probably reverse that, since pressures about gende..."

I did not mention anything about aptitude. I am not even trying to prove anything.

[Sarah]

Arminius wrote: "I did not mention anything about aptitude. I am not even trying to prove anything. "

Fair enough! It is true: you didn't mention aptitude. Just broad generalizations about inclination.

[RandomAnthony]

How was the environment hostile, Bunny? I don't mean that as a challenge, I'm just trying to understand what you mean.

Arminius, the group has put you on as a guest speaker at their next gathering...

http://societyofwomenengineers.swe.org/

:)

[Sarah]

Good point, Bun. I was just having my fun with Arminius and forgot the original article.

[Arminius]

Me too.

[Sally, la reina]

Yeah, I don't think it is any big wonder about women being outcasts in math/science environments.
Thanks again, Bun, for bringing us back to the article.

My best friend was an electrical engineering major in college at CU, and was not only outnumbered by a 10:1 ratio, but was also pandered to, belittled, and often ignored by her male classmates. She's strong as iron and didn't back down, but she often would tell me how just UNFUN her classes were, full of men and with a male teacher who wouldn't call on her except to patronize. Grrrr.

[RandomAnthony]

That's fascinating and surprising to me. I wouldn't think the discrimination would be so overt. Eye-opening, really.

I don't mean to be offensive, but I sometimes call women "hon"...I hope the rest of my behavior covers for that...

[Sally, la reina]

"buster" hee hee. I'm going to call one of my male students "buster" today and see how that goes.

[Arminius]

It wouldn't bother me if a teacher had called me "buster."

[RandomAnthony]

waits for the results of the Buster experiment

I wouldn't say "darlin", I don't think. And I've probably called my male students "hon" too. That's even more disturbing, isn't it?

My eleven year old HATES when I call him sweetheart. I'm trying to stop.

[Lori]

I like bud or buddy for the males, better than buster. I know far too many dogs names Buster!

Uh RA? I think you should stop with the hon. To the males and females!

[RandomAnthony]

I'll do my best!

[Micheal]

Please do, I think I'll have teacher/student nightmares for the next couple of days at least. LOL

[Sally, la reina]

So, I did it. I called Weston "buster" because he didn't bring his book and we were doing individual exercised from the book. He just kind of looked at me weird, but this might also be because he knew he was in the wrong and was sorry too.

I'll try it again on Monday during a whole class discussion.