Is Mormonism a form of Christianity?

[Natalie]

Monkey wrote: "Natalie,

You use the word "insult" very freely. If you are insulted by people with different viewpoints, you are going to lead a very angry life.

Here is my only point: If your belief in the ..."
I don't start every thought in my mind with 'God did it' i know His hand is always in my life but i have free agency. If i slap someone i don't say 'God did it'. I made the choice to do it, not Him.
It also seems like your head should be hurting if you do all this thinking every day when there is one obvious answer.

[Monkey]

Natalie wrote: "It also seems like your head should be hurting if you do all this thinking every day when there is one obvious answer. "

My head is just fine, thank you. I'm not sure why thinking should hurt it; does YOUR head hurt when you think? Why assume there is one "obvious answer" and live your life with blinders on? The wonders of the universe are out there to be discovered; Beautiful, strange, just, well... worth thinking about.

I LIKE thinking about stuff. How do you avoid boredom?

Love,
Monkey

[Jesse]

I never decreed what God would do. I allow Him to pass judgment. I know God is unchanging, and many people like you have asked for proof, to their dismay. So keep asking.

Faith does not make us blind, Monkey. It allows us to see. Too bad, in all your years, you have failed to realize that.

Lastly, you are a troll. This topic was supposed to be on Mormons and Christianity. Why bring up polygamy, priesthood, baptisms for the deceased, etc. when it should be about Christ. You keep going off topic. It has already beensaid in this thread what our beliefs in Christ really are. We've answered the question multiple times, and yet you troll still.

I believe in Jesus Christ, just as I believe in the rising sun; not because I can see it, but because of it, I can see evereything else.

I believe in the Jesus Christ who atoned for my sins, who died on the cross for me, and who resurected 3 days later. He is my Savior and Redeemer. And THAT makes me a Christian.

[Monkey]

Jesse wrote: "This topic was supposed to be on Mormons and Christianity."

Nope.

Having started this discussion, I see that you haven't read the original post. This discussion is about the theological differences between LDS and Christianity.

Jessie wrote "We've answered the question multiple times"

Yes, all with the same answer: "We are Christian because we SAY we are Christian." No valid refutations of the fundamental differences have been given.

Jessup wrote: "I believe in Jesus Christ, just as I believe in the rising sun; not because I can see it, but because of it, I can see evereything else."

Great example! You believe in Jesus, just as you believe that the sun rises, but the sun does NOT rise: It is at the center of the solar system and the Earth moves around it. It is a trick of your limited human perception. Using Science and logic, we can get PAST our limited knowledge, just as we can use logic and science to get past the unreasoned limits of religion.

To continue your off-topic digression:

Jessy wrote: "I believe in the Jesus Christ ... And THAT makes me a Christian. "

So that's all it takes? Jim Jones of the Peoples Temple believed in Jesus; was HE a Christian? Charles Manson believed in Jesus (and that it was him), is HE a Christian? Many Hindus belive Jesus was an avatar of Krishna and include him in their pantheon of gods. Are Hindus Christian?

Abrazzos,
Monkey

[Jesse]

Limited human perception? My friend, that was a direct quote from CS Lewis. And if you think he had a limited human perception, everything you have stated in this forum is null.

I think it humorous that you say we only claim we're Christian because we say we are, when you claim we're not Christian because you say we aren't. Ridiculous and hypocritical. Another failed attempt. Monkey, go troll somewhere else.

[Monkey]

Salaam, Jesse,

Jesse wrote: "And if you think he had a limited human perception, everything you have stated in this forum is null."

How does that even make sense? Are you having a conversation in your head and not sharing?

Human perception tells us that we live on a flat planet with the sun going around it and the stars are tiny holes in the curtain of the sky. You don't think the Earth is flat (do you?) or that the sun goes around the Earth, even though it LOOKS like it does (at least I hope not)? If not, then thank science, not faith and CERTAINLY not religion, which persecuted and killed people who dared question the status quo.

And you avoided my question: Is Charles Manson a Christian? By your definition, he is. Not even trying, are you? THAT'S the definition of a troll: I'm providing reasons, examples and a logical argument. You are the dictionary definition of a troll.

Ok, today's question for you to ignore: The early LDS church spoke of a "Heavenly Mother".

"President Gordon B. Hinckley (Counselor in the First Presidency, November 10, 1985–March 3, 1995) addressed at length the topic of a Mother in Heaven during the 1991 general Relief Society meeting. He taught: “Logic and reason would certainly suggest that if we have a Father in Heaven, we have a Mother in Heaven. That doctrine rests well with me. . . . The fact that we do not pray to our Mother in Heaven in no way belittles or denigrates her. . . . None of us can add to or diminish the glory of her of whom we have no revealed knowledge.”
-Gordon B. Hinckley, “Daughters of God,” Ensign 31 (November 1991): 100

NOWHERE in the Christian bible is a female god mentioned. This is exclusive to the LDS. If you worship a different (female) god, doesn't that make you a different religion?

Here is a BYU professor's paper on the subject:
https://byustudies.byu.edu/PDFLibrary...

Please note that that is the byu.edu website; NOT Wikipedia. YOUR church's website.

Here is another book on the female deity, if you would like to learn more:
http://www.ldswave.org/?cat=7


In the name of Isis the most merciful,
Monkey

[Jenny]

To anyone who would like to read intelligent articles written on the question of "Are LDS Christian?" that is not from an anti-mormon source, please follow this link. http://www.fairlds.org/apol/ai052.html There are about 27 or 28 different articles. This website is the best resource for defense of almost any topic of criticism of the LDS church. Well, actually, from a spiritual perspective, the best resource to go to is God. But from a strictly intellectual perspective, this website is the best.

[Jenny]

Monkey wrote: "Becca,

Here is the question: I know Muslims that are 100% just as convinced as you are that Mohammed rode into heaven on a white horse, and NOTHING will convince them otherwise. Are they right? ..."
Would I blow your mind, Monkey, if I told you that LDS prophets have referred to Mohammed as a prophet of God? Yes, we believe our church contains the complete Gospel of Jesus Christ restored, but we also believe in the truthfulness of other religions and prophets. So perhaps the Muslims are 100% correct in their belief about Mohammed and so are we in our belief about the translation of Holy Scripture by Joseph Smith.

[Monkey]

Jenny,

You believe that your trilogy is the 100% word of god, but that other religions are true? So Hindus and Sikhs and people who worship Satan are all correct?

That certainly appeases everyone...

Hugs,
Monkey

[Jesse]

the BYU website is NOT the church's website. I don't know what the Mormon church ever did to you, but you are VERY anti-LDS, which is too bad. All churches hold some sort of truth, like Becca said. The LDS church has the full truth.

Can you please explain why you hate the church so much? Because you have posted MANY topics trying to denounce our religion. I'm just curious why you are so aggravated that you have to attack us. And don't say you're not. Your "intellectualism" blinds you.

[Noel]

Monkey. You seem like a well thought out man, but seriously? Jesse makes a valid point. What did the church ever do to you to make you teach false pretenses about us? Do you question all churches? or just the LDS one?

[Jenny]

Did I say Satan worshippers? I said (in another post) all Goodness is from God. So, yes, all religion has a form of Godliness in it if it is teaching good works.

Now I have a question for you. Why can't you allow people to have beliefs different from yours? If you don't believe in religion, you are completely entitled to that belief. So why is it you feel that you have to validate your beliefs by attacking others' beliefs? Do you really need that much approval to be okay with yourself?

[Monkey]

Jenny,

Where have I said you can't have your own beliefs? Where? I'll help you out: I haven't. I've QUESTIONED the teachings that you think are true, I've critically evaluated the writings of Joseph Smith, I've pointed out logical and historical inadequacies in the BOM and the BOA, but TELL someone what to believe? That is a straw-man argument that you have invented; I've never done it except in your imagination. Believe what you wish, but don't think that other people have to consider your beliefs logical.

Love,
Monkey

[Monkey]

Jenny and Jesse,

You each have said the same thing:

Jesse wrote: "All churches hold some sort of truth"

Jenny wrote: "all religion has a form of Godliness in it"

And I've asked a question that neither of you have answered: ALL religions? What truth does the Church of Satan hold?
www.churchofsatan.com/

What truth is there in the Branch Davidians?

Hello?
Monkey

[Monkey]

Noel,

I don't teach. I question. Can you answer my questions?

Hakuna Matada,
Monkey

[Jenny]

Jenny wrote: "Did I say Satan worshippers? I said (in another post) all Goodness is from God. So, yes, all religion has a form of Godliness in it if it is teaching good works.

Now I have a question for you...."You've misquoted me, as I'm sure you've done with others.

[Monkey]

Jenny,

Satanism teaches good works (you HAVE studied it before making assumptions, haven't you?). "Do as thou wilt, as long as you harm no-one."

Where is the misquote? And who else are you "sure" of without evidence?

In Lucifer the Light-Bringer's name,
Monkey

[Jesse]

Sad to say, yes, even the church of satan has truth... they believe in Satan. They believe he exists (which he does) and that he has power (which he does). That is truth. Now that I have answered your question, you should answer mine... Why do you hate the Mormon church?

[Noel]

Monkey wrote: "Noel,

I don't teach. I question. Can you answer my questions?

Hakuna Matada,
Monkey"

Yes i can. any questions?

[Monkey]

Jesse,

I don't. You are being overly sensitive. I think it's because you have never had your beliefs questioned and it is causing cognitive angst.

Or you might just be a whiner.

Noel,

Read the OP and respond to the points. PLUS:

"Ok, today's question for you to ignore: The early LDS church spoke of a "Heavenly Mother".

"President Gordon B. Hinckley (Counselor in the First Presidency, November 10, 1985–March 3, 1995) addressed at length the topic of a Mother in Heaven during the 1991 general Relief Society meeting. He taught: “Logic and reason would certainly suggest that if we have a Father in Heaven, we have a Mother in Heaven. That doctrine rests well with me. . . . The fact that we do not pray to our Mother in Heaven in no way belittles or denigrates her. . . . None of us can add to or diminish the glory of her of whom we have no revealed knowledge.”
-Gordon B. Hinckley, “Daughters of God,” Ensign 31 (November 1991): 100

NOWHERE in the Christian bible is a female god mentioned. This is exclusive to the LDS. If you worship a different (female) god, doesn't that make you a different religion?

Here is a BYU professor's paper on the subject:
https://byustudies.byu.edu/PDFLibrary...

Please note that that is the byu.edu website; NOT Wikipedia. YOUR church's website.

Here is another book on the female deity, if you would like to learn more:
http://www.ldswave.org/?cat=7
"

In the name of the Mother,
Monkey

[Monkey]

Oh, and because Jesse and I AGREE on something:
Jesse wrote: "...yes, even the church of satan has truth... "

Here are some of their tenets. Very reasonable...

[Jesse]

I don't buy that you have don't have anything against the LDS church. SEVERAL topics in the Book of Mormon forum are flooded with you trying to "prove" our church false. Trust me, I have had my beliefs questioned countless times. I am a returned missionary, and have heard everything you have posted here, as well as plenty more.

I don't need proof. Christ said to his own apostle in the Bible: "Blessed art thou because you have seen and believed, but more blessed are those who believe and have not seen."

We're not supposed to have the "proof" you're looking for. We're supposed have faith that He exists.

I follow Christ. I preach of Christ. And I teach my own child about Christ, so that he may know where to look for a remission of sins. I am a Christian through and through, because I follow the teachings and examples of Christ. I don't just "say" I am Christian. I perform Christian actions. I try to pattern my life after Christ. It's hard to be more Christian than that.

Hopefully you can understand this. I won't be replying to anything else you say, because nothing in previous posts has gotten through to you. It's not worth my time.

I hope you find whatever it is you're looking for in this life. Good luck.

[Noel]

We dont believe in a worshiping a Heavenly Mother. We worship our Christ and Heavenly Father. But, we do believe that there is a heavenly father but we dont worship her. GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT before you go and decide to teach about my gospel. Maybe you should meet with some missionaries and talk to them. Im just saying. You act like you hate Mormons.

[Natalie]

Monkey wrote: "Natalie wrote: "It also seems like your head should be hurting if you do all this thinking every day when there is one obvious answer. "

My head is just fine, thank you. I'm not sure why thinking..."

I have a life thank you very much. and its not just trying to make people mad over the internet

[Noel]

sorry i meant heavenly mother.

[Monkey]

Jessie,

Jesse wrote: "I won't be replying to anything else you say, because nothing in previous posts has gotten through to you. It's not worth my time.
"

Well, you may have given up, but I'll never give up on YOU! Logic and knowledge are all around you, you just have to see. Don't be afraid, don't lash out at people who just want to discuss possible alternatives. Putting your fingers in your ears and going "lalalalalalalala" won't make the questions go away.

Jesse wrote: "We're not supposed to have the "proof" you're looking for. We're supposed have faith that He exists."

SUPPOSED to have faith? Says who? Not supposed to have proof? Who doesn't want you to have proof? It's not the same people you give 10% of your income to, is it?

Jah love,
Monkey

[Monkey]

Noel and Natalie,

Fist off, these continued attempts to derail the topic ("Is Mormonism a form of Christianity") are sad. I have love for all people. I'll tell you what; the next missionaries, whatever their religion, that come to my door get a big hug and kiss, just for YOU guys!

Now, back to the topic: The idea of the Heavenly Mother is resurgent in the LDS. Although not mainstream, the idea that the heavenly father has to have a heavenly mother seems to have some traction with practicing Mormons. I've provided evidence from a BYU professor. Did you read the paper?

In 1909, the First Presidency of the Church wrote: “All men and women are in the similitude of the universal Father and Mother and are literally the sons and daughters of Deity.”

“The Origin and Destiny of Man,” Improvement Era 12 (November 1909): 78

In 1995, the Church officially reaffirmed the doctrine of a Heavenly Mother in “The Family: A Proclamation to the World”: “All human beings—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose.”

“The Family: A Proclamation to the World,” Ensign 25 (November 1995)


Go and check the sources if you don't believe me. I'll wait. Good, done?

Now, what is your response to this Mormon doctrine?

Please send any off-topic comments to me in a PM so this thread can stay on-topic.

Bushels of kisses,
Monkey

[Kelli]

Monkey wrote: "True believers,

Let's do a thought experiment. Let's imagine that an alien from Alpha Centauri has landed, and meets up with some Mormon missionaries (if they haven't made it to Alpha Centauri ye..."

YOU are evidence of God, for you are one of His. If you open your heart and let Him in, His love for you will bring you peace and joy. I know this because it has done so for me:)

[Danica]

Ok - I'm sorry if I'm being redundant, but I don't have the time to read all the responces, but I feel a need to put my two cents out there.

Before I directly respond to some of the questions you bring up, I have a few questions for you.

1) Have you read the Book of Mormon? If not, I challenge you to read it and sincerely pray about it. This is a book with a promise:

Moroni 10:4-5 says "And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things."

If it's true, you'll feel a peace come over you, if it's not true, you won't. But it only works if you are sincere about reading and praying about this book.

2) What is your definition of a "Christian"? When you tell me what a Christian is, I'll tell you whether or not we fit that description.

***

5. I have NEVER heard Adam being referred to as God. I have been a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints my whole life (about 22 years) and I have never once heard this. What we believe is that God is our eternal father, he has a son - Jesus Christ, and we beleive there is a Holy Spirit.

7. This is false. Salvation comes through the atonement of Christ. We do however need the restored church, which we have Joseph to thank for. Without the restored church we would not have the authority to baptize, do temple ordinances (such as proxy baptisms for the dead and marriages), or be able to receive revelation through a prophet of the church. We need the current prophet of the church to help guide us and help us prepare for what lies ahead.

We do not worship Joseph. We are grateful for all that he did to restore the church, but we only worship God the Father and Jesus Christ.

8. Sadly you are missing an important side to this issue. Yes, we do believe that there is one true church and that it is our church. However, we believe that there is truth in all things.

Our 13th Article of Faith states: "...If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things." This is pretty open ended because there is good all around us. I have heard church leaders quote fiction novels over the pulpit because there was a grain of truth and light in the book.

We as a church do not condemn other churches. We do however believe that there is only one church that has the full restored church. We believe that after the apostacy after Christ died and his apostles were killed, the authority to baptize and perform other ordinances died with them. The authority and power to act in accordance with God's will was no longer on the earth, and so it had to be restored. Joseph Smith received the authority to restore these ordinances. We believe that just as angels came to prophets in the past, angels came to Joseph Smith - the spirits of Peter, James, and John, and even Elijah. Through this act, Joseph was able to restore the church to have "the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church" (Article of Faith #6).

This is why we believe that we are the only "True" church. Because we believe that we are the only church who has the authority and power to perform the ordinances of baptism and marriages and such.

[Danica]

I am very interested in this thread, so I couldn't help but skim a few more posts (and of course I have to butt in!)


You said: "I went and asked several people I know, (a Catholic priest, a conservative Jewish person and a co-worker, who has an M.A. in Christian Education from a protestant university), and “believing in “a gazillion of other Gods” precludes ANY of these people from considering you a member of ANY Abrahamic faith."

How about the fact that in Hebrew the word for God (Elohim) literally translates to "Gods" PLURAL?


About Kolob - why is it weird to think that God has a home somewhere in the vast universe? I mean, He created earth for us to inhabbit and we believe that we were created after His image (that He has flesh and bone like us). He has to take up space SOMEwhere - why SHOULDN'T He have his own planet?


I'm a little lost with your recent post about a Heavenly Mother. What exactly is your complaint? Simply that there can only be one God...?

We DO believe in a Heavenly Mother. I don't know why it isn't a "mainstreem" belief (Perhaps just because we don't talk about her much...).

[[deleted user]]

Andre wrote: "Basic doctrines are important, not the individual feelings of church members."

Even if these feelings are preached by their self-proclaimed Prophet (con-man, wanna-be-politician, pederast) Joseph Smith?

Let us not forget that this is the man who wrote the Book of Mormon and also stated that salvation can only be found within his name and Jesus Christ's.

By Christian law, Joseph Smith is a heretic and anyone who follows him is going to hell.

[John]

I find it hilarious that Christians are arguing with Mormons. How is believing that Jesus headed over to Missouri after being tacked up on a cross any more ridiculous than talking snakes or water into wine?

It's like a five year old laughing at a three year old for believing in Santa Claus, but they both still wet their pants because of the monster under the bed...

[[deleted user]]

Andre wrote: "To clarify, calling myself a Christian and then upholding a doctrine that violates the basic beliefs of mainstream Christianity is not valid. It may hurt peoples feeling or come across as insulting, but I consider it merely descriptive. "

So, a book that was written hundreds years prior to the Book of Mormon which was published in 1830 is considered "mainstream"? Good to know.

That is just psychotic on a level that I am unable to fathom.

[[deleted user]]

John wrote: "I find it hilarious that Christians are arguing with Mormons. How is believing that Jesus headed over to Missouri after being tacked up on a cross any more ridiculous than talking snakes or water..."

I was raised Catholic, turned Atheist when I reached the age of reason, 12. I'm just telling like it is.

[Alexa]

Monkey wrote: "Jesse wrote: "Let God "prove" it to him. Maybe he doesn't know what happens to people who demand "signs." Words of advice for Monkey... keep your head down..."

Jesse,

Threats? I forget, which de..."


I think we have found the anti-Christ

[[deleted user]]

Alexa wrote: "I think we have found the anti-Christ "

I thought that was Joseph Smith?

[Alexa]

John wrote: "I find it hilarious that Christians are arguing with Mormons. How is believing that Jesus headed over to Missouri after being tacked up on a cross any more ridiculous than talking snakes or water..."

How can Christians be arguing with Mormons when Mormons are Christian. We are The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Dictionary.com definition of Christians: "of, pertaining to, or derived from Jesus Christ or His teachings: a Christian faith. We believe in Christ and his teaching." We are Christian. Period. End of story.

[[deleted user]]

Maybe you should read the bible?

[Alexa]

Maybe I have! Besides, what does the Bible have to do with this? Mormons believe the Bible to be scripture just as much as the Book of Mormon.

[Benjamin]

Alexa Mormonism is not Christian because it rejects Christian doctrines such as the Trinity. You cannot be considered part of a belief system if you don't believe what it teaches. More than that many of the "Christians" on this board have a serious attitude problem, myself included so I would like to apologize for any rudeness.

[Alexa]

You are right, the LDS faith does not believe in the traditional form of the trinity. We do however, believe in God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. We just believe them to be three separate beings. We do believe in all the teachings of Christ. I think the attitude comes from trying to defend what one believes.

[Alexa]

Paul wrote: "Alexa wrote: "I think we have found the anti-Christ "

I thought that was Joseph Smith?"

How is Joseph Smith the anti-Christ? He proclaimed the truthfulness of Christ, not against him.

[[deleted user]]

Alexa wrote: "How is Joseph Smith the anti-Christ? He proclaimed the truthfulness of Christ, not against him. "

He also compared himself to christ, which is blasphemy.

[Alexa]

When did he compare himself to Christ? We all should aspire to be like Christ.

[[deleted user]]

By saying that he had to be accepted by the believer with Christ in order to get into heaven is comparing himself to Christ. It's your book, try and keep up.

[Isaiah]

Christianity is believing in Christ. Mormons believe in Christ. Mormons are a type of Christian.

[Isaiah]

Christianity is believing in Christ. Mormons believe in Christ. Mormons are a type of Christian.

[Isaiah]

Christianity is believing in Christ. Mormons believe in Christ. Mormons are a type of Christian.

[Doc]

utlm.org ...awesome website!!!

[Bigcuppa]

Isaiah wrote: "Christianity is believing in Christ. Mormons believe in Christ. Mormons are a type of Christian."

So if I believe that I am Christ, then I'm a christian? I'm believing in christ, which is your sole requirement!!!!

Isn't that what Charles Manson said? That HE is Jesus? So he is Christian????