Is Mormonism a form of Christianity?

[Hyrum]

Mormanity and Christianity, a little more believable than Greek or Hindy Mythology, and just as hilarious.

[Miles]

Anneka wrote: "Why? The Old Testament has prophets. Is it so illogical to think that perhaps there could be prophets on Earth today?"

Short answer, No. It's not illogical, but we are warned about false prophets. There's even a guy alive today claiming to be Jesus reincarnated! Thousands of people (my friend included) believe him, doesn't make it true however. If a wolf is in sheep's clothing, should we believe it's a sheep?

Anneka wrote: "Do you think that Christ would shun anyone that wants to do good things under His name?"

Matthew 7:22-23 answers that question. (..."and in thy name done many wonderful works"...) Look it up. Apparently doing "good things under His name" is not the standard by which one becomes a Christian or "saved" for that matter.

I do not disparage you or your religion, but one must be careful/cautious (and very introspective) about what they believe.

As Eddie said above..."If Christianity is "the religion derived from Jesus Christ, based on the Bible ...", then a belief in a Jesus altered by sources outside the Bible (having 3 wives, a sibling Lucifer, atoning sacrifice not sufficient alone for salvation, etc.) puts one's belief outside the definition of Christianity."

Have no worries however, even Catholics fall short of this definition with their idolatry of saints!

[Chris]

Anneka wrote: "Miles wrote: "Anneka wrote: "Why? The Old Testament has prophets. Is it so illogical to think that perhaps there could be prophets on Earth today?"

Short answer, No. It's not illogical, but we are..."

I would only add that any faith that postulates the golden rule are wonderful but as Richie Havens put it, "How we bowed and knelt down, how we worshiped well, but when it came to its living, a little if at all..."

[All_the_pets]

Mormonism is wearing a Christianity-skin suit. It wants to blend in and be accepted.

[SwordOfKim]

Just to be clear, the angel was going to kill Joseph if he didn't bang a 14 year old? How is this Christian?



Even the LDS seems to agree:
https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Jo...

What would Jesus have done?

[Fiona]

Monkey wrote: "Some of the basic tenets of Mormonism differ greatly from that of Christianity, yet Mormons claim to be Christians. Are they?

Here are several examples:

I would just like to point out almost everything you said is not in actuality in accordance with the teachings of the Mormon church. Many of your resources as well are based on people who broke off from the church and have mixed information and twisted principles to suit their own arguments as you too have just done.

Just for you I have created a revised version of your points:

1. God was once a man who lives on another planet (Near a star called Kolob).

This is correct. It is indeed believed that God too was a man and progressed.

2. We are co-eternal with God.

The "Intelligences" you referred to is to current knowledge a spirit (people without shape).
Pearl of Great Price, Abraham 3:22-23, "Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organised before the world was... for he stood among those that were spirits."
It is believed that God created each of our spirits and that we will continue to be co-eternal (once created you can never end).

3. The origin of Jesus Christ.

No, it most definitely is not believed that God slept with Mary. God may have a physical body but it doesn't mean that in order for him to create he has to do it the same way as us. As said earlier by you Mary did not conceive of the Holy Spirit or else Jesus would not have been heavenly father's son but the spirits as it is believed that the Holy Trinity is 3 separate beings.

4. Saving dead ancestors.

This is indeed a thing. There are baptisms and confirmations for the dead, however baptizing and so on for the dead does not by default make them a Mormon but only gives them the opportunity to, even though their body is detached from their spirit. The idea is that ordinances must be done in the flesh and cannot be performed on a spirit. I believe that the reason it is seen as an opportunity rather than a default membership is because it is not performed on them but a conduit, it is a choice whether or not they accept the ordinance.

5. Adam is God.

I don't even know why you thought this was a thing. Ask absolutely any Mormon you meet, the only one's that will tell you Adam is God are children who don't understand that being the first man on earth doesn't make you God.

6. LDS leaders have taught that Jesus is a polygamist.

It is not taught that Jesus is polygamist, in fact there is a lot of controversy around this. All of it is speculation. According to all the Mormon teachings he must have had A wife if he was supposed to lead by example, but there is no reference made to a wife probably for the same reasons there is no reference to Heavenly Father's wife.

7. That salvation is not through accepting Jesus Christ, but Joseph Smith.

This one is just plain wrong. Have you ever actually tried getting information from a member? The New Testament states unequivocally that, besides Jesus Christ, “there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved.” The bible AND the Book of Mormon is followed.
What they believe about Joseph Smith is that he was a prophet who restored the church to the earth and saw God the Father and Jesus Christ in the flesh.

8. That other churches are not Christian.

According to Mormon doctrine it never states that other churches are not CHRISTIAN but are missing things from the True doctrine of CHRIST such as how to baptize, or priesthood authority.

[Fiona]

Monkey wrote: "Scott,

But there is logic. Evolution, the big bang, all of science is based on replicable, observable facts.

Are you seriously telling me that logic is not always to be found? That sounds like so..."

I thought you should know the Big Bang was created by a religious person who believed God used two "atoms" to create stuff.

[Fiona]

Also Monkey, if you show me whatever the Abraham thing was that you were talking about I'll see if I can explain.

[Brachiation]

SOOO many problems with Mormons thinking they are Christians. First off, the best sources to disprove Mormonism are MORMONS!!!

https://cesletter.org/CES-Letter.pdf

Mormon leadership keeps changing theology to edge closer and closer to main-stream religion.

For example, FairMormon claims: “The sun borrows its light from Kolob”

This is yet another example of FairMormon’s attempting to obfuscate and complicate the issues.

Let’s review the entire paragraph, which includes an important passage that FairMormon omitted from its readers:

Is called in Egyptian Enish-go-on-dosh; this is one of the governing planets also, and is said by the Egyptians to be the Sun, and to borrow its light from Kolob through the medium of Kae-e-vanrash, which is the grand Key, or, in other words, the governing power, which governs fifteen other fixed planets or stars, as also Floeese or the Moon, the Earth and the Sun in their annual revolutions. This planet receives its power through the medium of Kli-flos-is-es, or Hah-ko-kau-beam, the stars represented by numbers 22 and 23, receiving light from the revolutions of Kolob. – Facsimile 2, number 5 (Emphasis added)

There are two errors in this passage, the first being the identification of the sun as a “planet,” which we know it is not. In fact, the Book of Abraham 3:5 describes the moon as a “planet,” another astronomical error in the supposedly “inspired” translation of Joseph Smith.

Note the bolded underlined sentence in the above passage. The sun, according to the “inspired” Book of Abraham, receives its light from the revolutions of Kolob. According to the Book of Abraham 3:3, Kolob is the “great” star which governs (or governed) the earth. It is from this star that the sun – according to Joseph Smith – receives its light.

As mentioned in CES Letter, the sun generates its own light and energy through the process of nuclear fusion. It has nothing whatsoever to do with “borrowing light” from some other star. It certainly has nothing to do with borrowing or receiving its light from “the revolutions of Kolob.”

Or, as another example:
"2 Nephi 2:22 and Alma 12:23-24 state there was no death of any kind (humans, all animals, birds, fish, dinosaurs, etc.) on this earth until the “Fall of Adam”, which according to D&C 77:6-7 occurred 7,000 years ago. It is scientifically established there has been life and death on this planet for billions of years. How does the Church reconcile this?"

FairMormon is neutral and latches onto the 2010 Gospel Principles Manual while acknowledging that the Church “takes a cautionary approach to interpreting 2 Nephi 2:22”.
The very doctrine of “there was no death before the fall” 7,000 years ago directly conflicts with the massive archaeological, fossil, biological, and DNA record that there has been life and death going on on this planet for billions of years.

Or the flood:
The LDS Church is supposed to be the “one and only true Church upon the face of the earth” which is guided by modern revelation directly from God. We’re the restored gospel of Jesus Christ – with the real priesthood, of course. We’re the only true Church being led by “prophets, seers, and revelators.”

Since the global flood and Noah’s ark – as FairMormon concedes – is an impossibility, why did Joseph Smith translate it as a real literal story and event in his translation of the bible in Moses 8?

Why does the Book of Mormon refer to the global flood as a literal and real event?

…for he truly told them of all things, from the beginning of man; and that after the waters had receded from off the face of this land it became a choice land above all other lands, a chosen land of the Lord; – Ether 13:2

Why does the Church confirm the authenticity of the flood in its Bible Dictionary under “Noah”? “The authenticity of the Genesis account of the Flood is confirmed by latter-day revelation as recorded in Moses 7:34, 42-43; 8:8-30 and Ether 13:2”.

Why does a 20th-century latter-day prophet, Joseph F. Smith, and Doctrine & Covenants 138 teach Noah and the flood as a literal event?

Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. – D&C 138:9

Why does the Church present the Flood and the Tower of Babel as literal and historical events in the January 1998 Ensign?

Why is the Church teaching something that is fictional as literal and true on LDS.org?
If today’s science is good enough for FairMormon to give up Noah’s Ark and the global flood, why is it not good enough in debunking the Tower of Babel and Adam and Eve (14 different hominin species hundreds of thousands of years before Adam and Eve)?

The answer is likely that the Tower of Babel and Adam and Eve are more foundational to Mormonism.

The Tower of Babel is a staple story in the Book of Mormon and the Jaredite civilization. If the Tower of Babel is debunked, the Book of Mormon is debunked as it is the foundational part of the Brother of Jared and his people leaving for the Promised Land.Similarly, if the Adam and Eve story is bogus, Mormon theology implodes as it's the foundational story for the fall and the Atonement. No Adam/Eve = No fall = No need for Atonement = No need for Jesus Christ.

Adam fell that men might be…and the Messiah cometh…that he may redeem the children of men from the fall. – 2 Nephi 2:25-26

Unlike other religions that can take a figurative approach to Adam and Eve and the creation story, the Pearl of Great Price does not afford Mormonism the luxury of liberalization. Here in the Book of Moses and the Book of Abraham, we find a personal tutorial from God to Joseph Smith describing the earth’s formation and the creation of life. No millennia of translations. No corruption from the “great and abominable church”. Just pure revelation from god to the Prophet Joseph Smith. If Mormonism is true, then the creation account in the Pearl of Great Price should be verified by science. That Joseph’s creation account is diametrically opposed to the best physical evidence and science is a serious direct challenge to Mormonism’s truth claims.

Faith is believing and hoping when there is little evidence for or against something. Delusion is believing when there is an abundance of evidence against something.



Go back and read the history of Mormonism. THEY WERE NOT CHRISTIANS. They are trying to act like a mainstream religion now, with ending polygamy and letting black people into the church, but THEY STARTED AS A SEX-CULT 150 years ago....

[HornBlaster6000]

Brachiation,

They started as an occult, treasure-digging cult. The sex cult came later.

https://www.mormonstories.org/truth-c...

Folk Magic / Treasure Digging

Folk magic and occult beliefs were a part of early American and Mormon culture, affecting practice and doctrine in profound ways. Despite the scientific enlightenment movement that swept across Europe, Americans of diverse social classes and education levels inherited superstitions and supernatural beliefs from the colonial period. Publishers produced many volumes and almanacs that contained astrological and mystical information. Despite a predominantly uneducated citizenry in rural New England areas, an abundance of libraries across the region provided a vast array of books of all types, including texts on folk magic and alchemy.

There is indisputable evidence of the Smith family’s involvement in ritual magic. Furthermore, numerous foundational Mormon families actively believed in apparitions, divining rods, talismans, seer stones, planetary superstitions, lunar cycles, astrology and enchantments. Smith family descendants eventually donated and displayed folk magic items, including amulets, talismans, parchments, daggers, and even magical canes and handkerchiefs.

D. Michael Quinn, a prolific historian of Mormonism, observed that “the official version of early Mormon history is often incomplete in its presentation of material facts and evaluation of evidence; therefore it is inaccurate in many respects. The Smith family’s folk beliefs, treasure digging ventures and their effect on Mormon revelation are perhaps the most troubling topics for Mormon apologists and polemics, who often deny legitimate sources while selectively embracing items which conveniently fit the official Mormon narrative meticulously polished over a span of two centuries.” Quinn’s, Early Mormonism and the Magic World View, is highly recommended to anyone seeking to understand how folk magic impacted early Church leaders.

TREASURE DIGGING

Upstate New York and Vermont were meccas of treasure-digging. Poorer families were infatuated with stories of buried wealth, while treasure quests occasionally attracted even prominent and wealthy participants. The Smiths’ Palmyra home was approximately three miles from the Erie Canal. Public intrigue was such that a boat would “move up and down the canal, bearing the riches of science as well as the gifts of fortune” claiming to result from the digs (Wayne Sentinel, Palmyra, NY, June 23, 1824).

Oak Island, the site of a tremendous amount of treasure speculation, lies just off the coast from New York, not far from the Smith’s Palmyra roots. A treasure lore developed around the infamous Captain William Kidd, a former pirate hunter who turned pirate in the late seventeenth century. Captain Kidd adventure novels were popular in the day, and the Smiths are documented to have enjoyed them. Palmyra resident Ann Eaton noted that Kidd was Joseph’s “hero,” whose work he “eagerly and often perused” (Vogel, Early Mormon Documents 3:148).

Many Smith neighbors, including Peter Ingersoll and Willard Chase, confirmed the family’s involvement in treasure digging (Dan Vogel, Joseph Smith: The Making of a Prophet, 36). Joseph Smith Sr. and William Cowdery, Oliver’s father, were members of the New Israelites, a Congregationalist group that focused on the powers of rod divination. Clients testified that Joseph Jr. followed family tradition, looking into a peep stone in search of buried treasure. Upon hire, Smith would use what was believed to be a gift of “scrying,” or looking into the stone and seeing the location of supposed treasure. However, as was typically the case with such digs, the treasure would “slip away” into the earth or be whisked away by a guardian spirit. The lore surrounding the treasure was that guardians protected the prize with enchantments. Treasure seekers spun tales of spirits or angels who would thwart the dig, sometimes appearing as beings, other times as enchanted animals such as salamanders or toads. Most treasure seekers, including the Smiths, would perform ritual magic in an attempt to counter such enchantments. Joseph Smith Sr. possessed a pointed dagger inscribed with astrological and occult symbols, which his family used to etch circles around digging sites to bind the enchantment or protect the diggers. Regardless, the treasure always remained elusive. As one contemporary observed:

Their digging in several places was in compliance with peeper Smith’s revelations, who would attend with his peep-stone in his hat, and his hat drawn over his face, and would tell them how deep they would have to go; but when they would find no trace of the chest of money, he would peep again, and weep like a child, and tell them the enchantment had removed it on account of some sin or thoughtless word; finally the enchantment became so strong that he could not see, and so the business was abandoned. (J. and H. Lewis in Vogel, Early Mormon Documents 4:303)

Joseph’s mother elaborated on the family’s affinity for folk magic when recording her family’s history. Lucy wrote: “Let not my reader suppose that because I shall pursue another topic for a season that we stopped our labor and went at trying to win the faculty of Abrac, drawing magic circles, or soothsaying to the neglect of all kinds of business. We never during our lives suffered one important interest to swallow up every other obligation” (Lucy Mack Smith’s Biographical Sketches). While understandably defensive of the disrepute commonly associated with money digging, Josiah Stowell indicated that the Smith’s loss of land and home in December 1825 owed at least in part to the Smiths preoccupation with treasure seeking. Joseph Knight’s personal history tells of his early acquaintance with Smith. Housed in the Church archives, this manuscript is “missing at least one beginning page.” The missing portion would likely cover the period when treasure digging was the primary association of Knight with the teenaged Joseph Smith (Quinn, Magic World View, 54).

LEARN MORE:

Noel Carmack, “Joseph Smith, Captain Kidd Lore and Treasure Seeking,” Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 46, No. 3.
Clay L. Chandler, “Scrying for the Lord: Magic, Mysticism, and the Origins of the Book of Mormon,” Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 36, No. 4.