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Something A Character Did or Said That You Didn't Like (Spoiler Warning)
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I love to see a hero who is stone cold in love with the heroine. I want the heroine to be the same, but it seems as though some authors don't bother to show how much the hero loves the heroine. That's really important to me as a reader.
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I love writing romance, as in romantic times.
Chaeya wrote: "J.R. Ward used it too where the heroine goes into heat and the next thing, the two of them are doing it. Everything has been so bang bang in the first book anyway, its more like a crack fix than a..."Haha, I felt the same way about Dark Lover. I think I even b!tched about the heroine giving it up to this giant sized man she literally just met on here. I had real problems with that first book. Didn't really fancy Mr. Wrath until later on in the series.
As for the cheeziness, tell me about it. These guys are such saps, I just have to shake my head at some of things they do/say. They're certainly fantasy men, that's for sure. I prefer my heroes to be a little more planted in reality, but what the heck ... they're not really human, are they? So probably can't judge them by human standards. And you gotta give it to Ward for hooking so many people to the series. I'm loving the the originality of her world, the slang talk and rap music being embraced in a mainstream romance novel.
Danielle "The Book Huntress" wrote: "Tina wrote: "I've read both Sam Starrett and John Medina and, I have to say Davina, Sam is just....sigh. Honey, you don't know what you're missing. LOL.My favorite Brockmann book hands down i..."
Touche.
A very good point. I'd forgotten about that, even though its one I've also mentioned before in a similar discussion on Amazon.
It's very relevant to my thesis on female responsibility. Would the woman continue to seduce the man because she feels that's her right (in other words, she feels entitled to his goods without his permission) or because it is clear and obvious to her that he really does want to be seduced despite him saying no?
It would be great to have other inputs on the matter.
Loni wrote: "I've read two or three stories where the hero gets another woman pregnant while in love with the heroine, but decides to marry the other woman out of obligation. I'm not sure that I like those plot..."Wow, that's shocking. While in love with the heroine? So he cheated on her after they met? Can't believe that's a romance.
I read a book with a similar plot once. I can't remember if the hero got the other woman pregnant (my gut's saying he didn't), but he had to marry her instead of the heroine. I remember it was a great book, like all books written by this wonderful author.
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I love writing romance, as in romantic times."
--Same here, Arch. Part of why I started writing stories down on paper is because I wanted to see stories that I like to read (and wish there were more of), available on paper. That's the main reason I'd like to be a published author--in case someone was looking to read a story like the one I wrote, but it wasn't available. Otherwise, it's not a big deal if I don't get published.
Arch wrote: "Loni, I know a storyline similar to that. But, the heroine didn't want anything to do with the hero, so he took his broken heart and went in a different direction. He didn't get the woman pregnant,..."Please PM the title and author of this book to me.
Davina wrote: "As for the cheeziness, tell me about it. These guys are such saps, I just have to shake my head at some of things they do/say. They're certainly fantasy men, that's for sure. I prefer my heroes to be a little more planted in reality, but what the heck ... they're not really human, are they? So probably can't judge them by human standards. And you gotta give it to Ward for hooking so many people to the series. I'm loving the the originality of her world, the slang talk and rap music being embraced in a mainstream romance novel."That's it! They're like a woman's imagination of a guy. Having grown up a tomboy, hung around mostly men for most of my life, at times I'm going, you haven't hung around a lot of guys have you JR? However, if she made them too real then they would have turned a lot of women off. I do applaud her for coming up with such an awesome concept, just like Sherilynn Kenyon, and was able to carry it forward to so many characters. As many people who claim they're tired of her, she will still continue to attract new readers and that's the whole point.
message 110:
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Danielle The Book Huntress , Sees Love in All Colors
(last edited Jan 08, 2010 08:55AM)
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I don't think it's fair to be angry if the hero seduces a heroine who says no but wants him (maybe not ready to admit it), and then blow if off if a heroine does the same to a hero.
Edited to Add: On a popular tv show several years ago, a fifteen year old character was involved with a 31 yr old female teacher. That made me furious. It was brushed off like it was a growing experience for him. If he was a girl, that teacher would be in jail. I wanted her arrested for what she did.
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I also dislike when the hero/heroine refuses to believe in the innocence of the hero/heroine, but wants to be in a sexual/emotional relationship with that person. How can you want to be with someone and you believe they are capable of doing something bad like that.
I guess these are related to my belief that trust is crucial in a relationship.
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--Ironically, JR Ward has a large male leadership, because they think she does write men well.
Danielle wrote: ""--I can't stand the storyline where a heroine doesn't know who the father of her baby is because she had sex with more than one man around that time. That really icks me out (no offense to anyone else).Can't deal with the heroine who doesn't know who her baby daddy is. That's just pushing it.
I think someone can discover they love someone like they've never loved someone else, even a long standing spouse. Too often life is not like the world of Romancelandia. Many people in the real world settle. They do so because they're pressured to, it is expected, they want to have kids, they don't want to be alone etc and etc. For many people it's possible to grow to love a spouse, but s/he may not be the grand passionate love of one's life. Many people don't find that grand passionate love ever, and if they do its sometimes quite later on in life.
So I can believe it when the h or h say they've never loved anyone like this before. Furthermore, it's romantic as heck.
Danielle "The Book Huntress" wrote: "Ironically, JR Ward has a large male leadership, because they think she does write men well."I've heard this too, but aren't a vast number of this group gay men?
I ask because I'd say the brothers are fantasy men for many in this group as well.
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--Same here, Arch. Part of why I started writing stories down on paper is because I wanted to see stories that I like to read (and wish there were more of), available on paper. That's the main reason I'd like to be a published author--in case someone was looking to read a story like the one I wrote, but it wasn't available. Otherwise, it's not a big deal if I don't get published."
Danielle, regardless if you get published or not, you write good stories and I know you will continue to share stories with people.
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Danielle "The Book Huntress" wrote: "Davina, I think that men should have the same protection from sexual assault and coercion as women. I hated that scene in Lakeview Terrace where they forced the stripper on Patrick Wilson's character. If that was a room full of men and they were forcing a male stripper on the heroine, that would considered the prelude to gang rape, wouldn't it? "It would, indeed.
I also agree 100% about that female teacher.
Speaking of female teachers, I was so furious when they let that Florida teacher off the hook with just a slap on the wrist for screwing around with a 13 yr old. There are many 13 year old girls who willingly have sex with much much older men, but they're still protected by statuary rape laws. Thus no matter how willing she was the guy is gonna find his a$$ languishing in prison if he gets caught.
Apparently the judge who presided over the case of the Florida teacher thought she was too pretty to go jail. What a travesty! How do these people become judges? They should be shot, the lot them who let criminals off the hook for being "too pretty". I hate the double standards that run amok in this country's justice system.
As a matter of fact, he doesn't have to be all that much older. I've heard of cases where underaged boys are charged with statuary(sp) rape for having sex with a girl who is the same age as he or slightly younger. But get this: the girl is not charged for statuary rape as well. Go figure...
Arch wrote: "Okay, the hero can love the heroine more than he loved his wife or a previous girlfriend. But say the wife or ex-girlfriend was the only woman that the hero has been with prior to the heroine, I do..."I hear you, but it's not improbable. "The best I ever had" is quite relative to each individual. We'd have to be privy to the h or h's deeply private thoughts -- and we do to a certain extent -- to determine that s/he is actually lying.
It's quite possible to enjoy sex beyond the level you enjoyed sex with your previous partner. It could be for a variety of reasons: this new person is your grand, passionate love, or you have a special connection to the person because of a shared experience ... whatever the reason.
Danielle, why does a large male readership suggest that they think she writes men well? I didn't say she didn't write men well, she writes a "fantasy" man quite well and like Davina said, most of her male readership is gay men. And even if they weren't all gay men, I could see how young guys could like the BDB. If they ever made a series about these guys, it could be awesome if the guys from the Tudors or Rome do it. Can you imagine?Believe me, I give her props and I am reading her series, I'm still at Dark Lover because it's just hard for me to swallow her writing. It's just me, not to say she's bad there.
Davina wrote: "Danielle wrote: ""--I can't stand the storyline where a heroine doesn't know who the father of her baby is because she had sex with more than one man around that time. That really icks me out (no o..."I don't like kids in my Romance novels anyway. I got two kids so I want to imagine myself single for a while. I know enough of Baby Daddy Issues, the Real Game, so I don't want to read about it. Now, I have to admit that my next WIP the heroine does get pregnant, but I incorporate the kid into the action. Not my usual thing though.
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Too often life is not like the world of Romancelandia. Many people in the real..."
--Well said, Davina.
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I've heard this too, but aren't a vast number of this group gay..."
--There's gay and straight.
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--Same here, Arch. Part of why I started writing stories down on paper is because I wanted to see stories that I like to read (and wish there were more of), av..."
--Thanks, Arch.
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--I am not speculating, but I've actually chatted with male fans of hers, straight and gay, and that was the answer I got, Chaeya.
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--Me too, Arch.
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--I have some issues with this sexual unfairness in the application of the statutory rape laws. Underage is underage, regardless if it's a male or a female.
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--Hmm. I like the hero/heroine to be the best sex they ever had, too. But I start to lose the ability to believe this when the H/h has had hundreds of partners and they end up with an inexperienced person, that this one person will be the only person they want to have sex with for the rest of his/her life. I don't think monogamy is a switch that can automatically be turned on.
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Danielle "The Book Huntress" wrote: "You know, the interesting thing about male characters and how they are written, is I think sometimes the books make men seem too alpha, at times. I realize that's fantasy, and some of you mentioned..."I strongly believe being alpha is a personality thing and not everyone will have it. An alpha man may have certain beta traits in certain contexts, but will generally perceive the world with an alpha's sentiments.
That said, what makes a person alpha will vary from person to person. There are many people who classify certain heroes as alpha and I'm like 'no way he's alpha'.
The thing is many authors tell us their heroes are alphas but doesn't back it up with him actually *being* alpha.
I guess this is because for some people when they hear the word alpha, they hear: jerk, a$$hole and various other unflattering names. When someone like me hear alpha I hear decisiveness, confidence, passion, someone who can be in love but not necessarily be ruled by it. An influencer. Someone who commands respect. An alpha to me is even about someone's appearance. He has to have the look to match the attitude. I love a man's man, even though they aren't always the easiest men on earth to live with. But I love their masculinity and I love their love for their masculinity. I can not tolerate any sort of effeminate appearance or behaviours from my men or heroes.
Doesn't mean he has to be a cowboy, hunter or outdoors man. He just has to have a strong face, with strong (masculine) features.
I agree that romance alphas are something else. First of all, men in general are very unrealistically portrayed in romance novels, muchless alpha men. Many authors also can't write an alpha man unless he's a SEAL or a cop or a CEO. An alpha doesn't have to be in a position of leadership to be alpha because being alpha is something that comes natural. You either are or aren't. Something can't make you alpha. People will just look to you for leadership even when you aren't a leader or don't want to be a leader.
I work in a large consultancy that is quite male dominated. I'm just one of very few women on my level. The real life alphas I know are not into shrinking lillies who need to be protected and rescued 24/7. They expect you to be able to rescue and protect yourself. They expect you to have a well developed sense of personal responsibility. You shouldnt expect to get all the perks men are said to have without the work. You can not be too submissive otherwise they'd bulldoze, sometimes involuntarily, over you. In short it's all about respect. An alpha man respects a woman who can hold her own. These are the type of alphas I like and respect. If they start expecting you to be too sweet, too traditional then they're not my cup of tea, and doesn't meet my definition of who an alpha person is. Not to say anything is wrong with being traditional for those who it suits. To each his own.
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I own the book now and I have reread parts about Dave and Sophia.
Danielle "The Book Huntress" wrote: "You know, the interesting thing about male characters and how they are written, is I think sometimes the books make men seem too alpha, at times. I realize that's fantasy, and some of you mentioned..."Yeah, I can see that. I think that's attractive too actually. I like to see a strong hero show that he's secure enough to have a softer side too-- although I don't think it needs to be demonstrated with big gestures as in romance novels, like tattoos on the back, "I'm now your servant for life," etc. Not only do exaggerated productions like that come off as disingenuous, you won't find that IRL, so it kind ignores the more subtle gestures that a man will do for his SO. That was one of the things that I liked about one of Richelle Mead's chars. She kind of showed the difference between a stud and a dud in a more subtle, realistic way. I really liked that.
Danielle "The Book Huntress" wrote: "I need to read Dark of Night. I think I'm just going to take the plunge, and I won't worry about being completely lost. "Don't worry, you really won't be. I honest to goodness don't feel like I know the people who started in the SEAL16/Troubleshooter's universe after Gone Too Far. In my opinion, the first six books starting with The Unsung Hero and ending with Gone Too Far are the best. And not coincidentally these books make up the love story arc of Sam and Alyssa from start to finish.
When I read DON, I had no real memory of most of the characters. I was simply not as invested in most of the characters after Max/Gina. So It was like reading a new book for me too. I don't think you'll be lost.
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--I agree with you on that. I hate hypocrisy. You just reminded me how much I dislike this theme.
LOL. Some people really don't like kids in a romance. I don't mind them as long as they're not super cute and precocious, etc., etc.
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--I prefer the H/h meet before they have kids, but I've read some books with kids involved, and they were used very well, and I ended up adoring the kids. One of the recent ones was Taming the Beast.
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Didn't Sam have a daughter? I don't recall her being mentioned in Hot Pursuit.
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Ash is a plump baby. Just the way I love them.
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Yes, Sam has a daughter name Hailey. She's mentioned in Hot Pursuit. Sam had called her, but the connection wasn't clear.
It's like a one liner. I would tell you what page it's mentioned on, but I don't own the book. It's towards the beginning.
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Ash is a plump baby. Just the way I love them."
Oh, babies really do look like you want to eat them. Apparently babies have a hormone or pheromone that they put out through their skin that makes them very appealing, so that you want to take care of them. That's what I've heard. I love babies!
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Hailey's a cutie. I know she was in Gone Too Far a lot.
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http://www.suzannebrockmann.com/S&...
Hailey is older now. This year, she will be 9 years old and Ash will be 2 years old.
Yes, I keep up with these fictional characters ages.
Sam and Ash is always together. Love it!
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Books mentioned in this topic
Stormfire (other topics)Taming The Beast (other topics)
Gone Too Far (other topics)
The Unsung Hero (other topics)
The Wolf and the Dove (other topics)
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I like to see his love for her in a book.
Okay, my writing mind is running.