Something A Character Did or Said That You Didn't Like (Spoiler Warning)

[Arch , Mod]

I'm putting this topic under Off-Topic, because the character might be from an interracial or non interracial book.

This topic is about characters and not authors. They are different, just as an actor/actress is not their character. Just because a character says or does something, it doesn't mean the author walks in the same shoes. So, lets respect authors and authors if you read what people say and you know it's a character of yours, please don't get offended.

I know that sometimes I may not like what a character says or does in a book, movie or even TV.

I would like for only what a character said or did to be listed. We don't need to know the name of the book, author or even character names. We don't need to even know if the character is from an interracial or non interracial book. We don't want to turn anyone away from anyone's book. If you want to give a character's name. Give only the first name.

A spoiler warning is mentioned in the topic, just in case.

Respect everyone's reply/opinion. No debates.

[Arch , Mod]

I've read where an older lady told the heroine - that's a virgin - that a woman doesn't become a woman, unless her virginity has been broken.

I disagree with that. Just because a woman is a virgin, it doesn't mean she's not a woman.

[TinaNoir]

I had been reading Charlaine Harris' Lily Bard series. It is a mystery series that is set in a small town. I had been enjoying them pretty much and planned to continue the series. When I got to the fourth book, Shakespeare's Trollop, I got kinda pissed off.

During the course of the previous three books there was a continuing character who slept with different men. In this book she is the victim. First, notice the title. She is called a 'trollop'. Second, as I was reading the book, the judgment from the other characters about her lifestyle really started to piss me off.

She was murdered and the main character, Lily, basically intimates that she deserved her death because of the way she lived. She felt contempt for the dead woman's newest boyfriend because he was visibly sad (crying) that she died. Again the message was loud and clear that his grief was inappropriate and somehow shameful because he was just one of many. In the first three chapters the dead woman was slut shamed continuously.

It just annoyed me no end. So I put the book away and haven't picked it up again. I'll probably finish it to see if this attitude softens, but I was really getting mad about it.

[Arch , Mod]

Eugenia wrote: "Arch, what was the reason the character said what she said, in what context? Was it something she said because she was older and had taught that way, was she being insulting? I'm curious to know wh..."

The hero has kidnap the heroine. She likes him and the older woman knows that. The older woman felt that she should school the heroine about men, because she has schooled the hero's sister about men and the hero's sister just recently had babies. The heroine actually had a part in helping with the delivery.

Virginity doesn't have anything to do with a woman being a woman.

[Davina]

Tina wrote: "I had been reading Charlaine Harris' Lily Bard series. It is a mystery series that is set in a small town. I had been enjoying them pretty much and planned to continue the series. When I got to ..."

OMG, Tina, are you joking?
Isn't Charlaine Harris the author of the Sookie Stackhouse series? Wow, for such a mainstream, popular author I can't believe she would do that in one of her books.

Hey, I'm no fan of promiscuous characters either, but that sounded a little extreme. I'll have to read the reviews for that book and see what other readers think.

Thanks for sharing.

[Davina]

Well, it's not so much what the character said, but what she did.

*The following may contain spoilers*

In Loretta Chase's Lord of Scoundrels the heroine shot the hero in his arm. The wound left him paralyzed and sick with fever for 4 days. When she had an opportunity to apologise she didn't. In fact she said she wasn't sorry she shot him at all.

Now, I'm not excusing the hero for the incident that led up to the shooting, but it by no means justified the heroine's actions imo. But the characters will have us convinced that this was an appropriate course of action for her to take.

What it was was assault with a deadly weapon. I really hate when authors (indeed the mainstream media in general) downplay female-on-male violence, particularly when it comes to such proportions.

Moreover, at one point after the heroine said she wasn't sorry for inflicting the injury, the hero ruefully says he deserved it. What? Can you imagine if the hero had done that to the heroine and then she turns around and claims she "deserves" it???? I doubt the book would have gotten pass an editor's door muchless get published. And rightly so. So what's up with the double standard? I had other more minor issues with the book, but that took the cake. That helped to break the book for me in a major way.

[Arch , Mod]

A reminder to everyone: We are talking about characters and not authors, so please speak about something a character said or did. Leave the authors out of this discussion. The characters and authors are separate people. Only speak about something a character has done or said.

[Yolonda]

I read an IR where the hero early on in the story rapes the heroine.

And I don't mean he seduced her either.

He hit her and raped her to get back at her father while she was an invalid at the time.

I had to regroup after that one to continue the story. It was actually interesting, but I was very surprised by his actions and how she justified them.

[Chaeya]

Arch wrote: "I've read where an older lady told the heroine - that's a virgin - that a woman doesn't become a woman, unless her virginity has been broken.

I disagree with that. Just because a woman is a virg..."

When I was coming up, it was considered once you've had sex, then you were "made a woman" or you "became a woman." It's not unusual to hear this from older folk.

[Arch , Mod]

Chaeya,

Older folks may have said this, but I still disagree with them.

Eugenia, yes, the book is a historical book. Yet, I still disagree with it.

[Arch , Mod]

If an older woman would have told me that, I would have given her a strange look and told her that I disagree with her.

[Arch , Mod]

I've read one book where the heroine has done something that the hero didn't like and he put her over his lap and spanked her. I have even seen a cowboy movie last year, where a husband had spanked his wife for doing something that he didn't like.

I don't think that a hero should put a heroine over his lap and spanks her, because she did something that he didn't like.

The heroine is not the hero's child.

[Danielle The Book Huntress , Sees Love in All Colors]

I'm with you on the spanking discipline. When I read that, I'm like, "What the heck??"

[Danielle The Book Huntress , Sees Love in All Colors]

Loni wrote: "I read an IR where the hero early on in the story rapes the heroine.

And I don't mean he seduced her either.

He hit her and raped her to get back at her father while she was an invalid at t..."

--Loni, I'm dying to know which book that is. Can I send you a PM to find out?

[Arch , Mod]

Eugenia,

I doubt that the hero and herione will wait to have sex in this historical book. The hero wants the heroine now and the heroine wants him too. She has been told how to seduce him. What colors to draw his attention.

[Chaeya]

That's how it was viewed. I understand you disagree with it, Arch and I know that's what this thread is about. I was just sheading light on why they said that. There are songs in verse that sings "I wanna make you a woman." I can't think of the title. It was a general consensus back then that once you were sexually active, you were a woman - not saying whether it makes sense or not, that's just how it was back then.

I don't do the rape thing, but I sure find the spanking thing highly erotic. I guess because I'm older, I do not want total control as a woman. I like for a man to take charge, be in charge which is why I love books with alpha males in them. I like the idea of being a child to him at times. I like to alphas being both dominating and nurturing at the same time. So a lot of my heroes are like that. I can't do beta men and I can't do too dominate a female. I'm just a little too old school, I guess.

[Arch , Mod]

Chaeya,

My hero's hand would be missing, if he ever put me over his lap and spanks me for something that I did that he didn't like.

I have never read where a heroine has spanked a hero for something he did that she didn't like.

[Arch , Mod]

Eugenia,

The hero would be mad if the heroine spanked him.

I can't see Sam spanking Alyssa. She's a sharpshooter. Plus, she's tough.

[Danielle The Book Huntress , Sees Love in All Colors]

I think Arch was referring to spanking as a discipline, not as a sexual activity. My issue is that I am not down with a man feeling like he needs to discipline his wife if she gets out of line, like she's a child. They are both grown, and they are both equals. If you don't like something your partner does, you talk to her, and tell her your feelings. You don't put her over your lap and spank her.

Everyone's into different sexual things, and I don't think anyone's trying to judge that. To some people, the rape fantasy is appealing. It doesn't mean that rape is okay in real life, or that a woman wants to be raped. Like being dominated sexually, the rape fantasy is about surrendering control to a man who a woman is sexually attracted to.

As for reading rape in books, it depends on how it's handled for me.

[Yolonda]

Danielle "The Book Huntress" wrote: "Loni wrote: "I read an IR where the hero early on in the story rapes the heroine.

And I don't mean he seduced her either.

He hit her and raped her to get back at her father while she was an..."

Sure thing.

[Danielle The Book Huntress , Sees Love in All Colors]

Thanks, Loni.

[Yolonda]

Eugenia wrote: "Loni wrote: "Danielle "The Book Huntress" wrote: "Loni wrote: "I read an IR where the hero early on in the story rapes the heroine.

And I don't mean he seduced her either.

He hit her and ra..."

I read a story once like that where the hero spanked his lady like a child and all she did was cry and poke her lip out...much like an actual kid.

Puhleeze...that dude needed a fist to the nose.

[Arch , Mod]

Danielle "The Book Huntress" wrote: "I think Arch was referring to spanking as a discipline, not as a sexual activity. My issue is that I am not down with a man feeling like he needs to discipline his wife if she gets out of line, li..."

Yes Danielle, my spanking reference was discipline and not sexual.

If I am not mistaken, sexual spanking occurs in books that has bdsm scenes in them. I don't read those kind of books.

[Danielle The Book Huntress , Sees Love in All Colors]

I don't like when the hero or heroine call each other extremely rude names. I'm sure you can imagine what names I'm thinking of, so I won't elaborate. I know that people lose it in the heat of the moment, but it makes me feel really bad to see them disrespecting each other like that.

[Danielle The Book Huntress , Sees Love in All Colors]

Eugenia wrote: "Usually, I don't have issues with IR romance but I've it with some. I read a book, IR romance, and the hero was white, of course, as he sees his competition a black guy, he goes on about comparing..."

I think the surprise black heritage is just a convenient plot twist that an author likes to use. I think it's unfair if you're wanting to read an IR story and wham, it's not interracial.

[Danielle The Book Huntress , Sees Love in All Colors]

Loni wrote: "Eugenia wrote: "Loni wrote: "Danielle "The Book Huntress" wrote: "Loni wrote: "I read an IR where the hero early on in the story rapes the heroine.

And I don't mean he seduced her either.

H..."

--I hate being treated like a child. That is making smoke come out of my ears just hearing it. I think I'd have the urge to do what Arch suggested. Or he'd be talking to thin air, because I would be gone.

[Danielle The Book Huntress , Sees Love in All Colors]

Eugenia wrote: "Danielle "The Book Huntress" wrote: "I don't like when the hero or heroine call each other extremely rude names. I'm sure you can imagine what names I'm thinking of, so I won't elaborate. I know ..."

-Yeah, I mean where's the love in that?

[Chaeya]

I meant it as discipline that is kind of a turn on for me. But I'm not saying the heroine doesn't stand up for herself. It really depends on how the book is written and what transpires. Different strokes for different folks.

[Danielle The Book Huntress , Sees Love in All Colors]

Eugenia wrote: "Danielle "The Book Huntress" wrote: "Eugenia wrote: "Danielle "The Book Huntress" wrote: "I don't like when the hero or heroine call each other extremely rude names. I'm sure you can imagine what ..."


-Oh, there would definitely need to be some serious apologizing!

[Danielle The Book Huntress , Sees Love in All Colors]

Chaeya wrote: "I meant it as discipline that is kind of a turn on for me. But I'm not saying the heroine doesn't stand up for herself. It really depends on how the book is written and what transpires. Differen..."


--We all like different things. Nothing wrong with that. I like heroes who are borderline crazy jealous (as long as they are not physically or verbally abusive to the heroine). Whatever floats your boat.

[Arch , Mod]

I love a hero that's a good bad boy. He can be a little possessive in a good way. I like a hero that's not afraid to get a little dirty. Okay, let me stop. :)

[Davina]

Chaeya wrote: I don't do the rape thing, but I sure find the spanking thing highly erotic. I guess because I'm older, I do not want total control as a woman. I like for a man to take charge, be in charge which is why I love books with alpha males in them. I like the idea of being a child to him at times. I like to alphas being both dominating and nurturing at the same time. So a lot of my heroes are like that. I can't do beta men and I can't do too dominate a female. I'm just a little too old school, I guess.
"


With the exception of sometimes being like a child to him, I agree very much with this statement. I've always liked these type of men and heroes, but I've also noticed that as I get older its more and more important to me to have a strong man. Beta men/heroes seriously do nothing for me.

I understand that some women may fantastize about sex with strangers and or a number of strangers, but I always cringe at the term "rape fantasy". When I hear the word rape, nothing fantastic comes to mind. It's probably an irrational reaction under the circumstances, but rape is always a bad word for me.

As for the matter of rape in romance books, I think a lot of readers may have different definitions of what rape is. Rape in modern times have been largely redefined by certain ideological groups to include even the most contrived of situations. For me rape is as it is classically defined: the use of force to dominate and subjugate where it is *clearly* not wanted. And for me clearly can mean screaming bloody murder or just tuning the act out by lying there like a log. In that context, most so-called "rape" scenes some people have had issues with (for eg the one in Anne Stuart's Into the Fire) are merely persuasive seductions to me. So yeah different strokes and all that, I guess.

[Davina]

I'm not into the whole spanking as discipline thing either, and any self-respecting woman who would allow such nonsense to happen really needs counselling(sp?). No man (woman) has the right to put their hand on their partner as a form of discipline. That's not discipline, it's abuse. I'm speaking ONLY in the context where the hero may be spanking the heroine in a way that hurts her in a BAD way (that is to say she neither likes it nor does she wants it), NOT A SEXUALLY GRATIFYING and EROTIC WAY.

In sexual contexts, FAR REMOVED from (in other words NOT in the context of) the type of "discipline" described above, I can't determine whether I find it hot or not. It doesn't offend me nor DO I THINK IT IS WRONG or ABUSIVE or THAT WOMEN WHO PARTICIPATE IN THIS ACTIVITY NEED COUNCELLING). I won't stop reading the book if its included, but I won't miss it if it's not there.

EDITED FOR FURTHER CLARIFICATIONS

P.S. Not shouting either, just poor with making italics.

[A.M.]

Okay here's goes, I won't give the title of the book or author. I read this book awhile back when first came out in two parts.

The first book I loved the concept of two people being destined to be together from one life to next. What I didn't like how in the second book the heroine did a complete 360 degree turn and sleep with another guy just b/c the hero couldn't remember their past life together. To me it made her look sleazy and trifling, something I just could not get past.

[Danielle The Book Huntress , Sees Love in All Colors]

Davina wrote: "Chaeya wrote: I don't do the rape thing, but I sure find the spanking thing highly erotic. I guess because I'm older, I do not want total control as a woman. I like for a man to take charge, be in ..."

--I tend to agree with you about what constitutes rape in a fiction story, being a subjective thing. I think that some situations are probably more forced seduction. I hope I did not offend you or anyone else by using the term rape fantasy. That was not my intention. I'm not sure how else to couch that type of scenario.

[Danielle The Book Huntress , Sees Love in All Colors]

Davina wrote: "I'm not into the whole spanking as discipline thing either, and any self-respecting woman who would allow such nonsense to happen really needs counselling(sp?). No man (woman) has the right to put ..."

--I've read a few books where spanking was included in sexual scenes. It's not something I'm into, but it didn't offend me in the books where I read it.

[Danielle The Book Huntress , Sees Love in All Colors]

Arch wrote: "I love a hero that's a good bad boy. He can be a little possessive in a good way. I like a hero that's not afraid to get a little dirty. Okay, let me stop. :)"


--What do you mean by getting a little dirty, Arch. Do you mean that in a symbolic sense, such as putting his money where his mouth is, or doing the hard/dirty jobs around the house and in working environments.

[Danielle The Book Huntress , Sees Love in All Colors]

Brenda wrote: "Okay here's goes, I won't give the title of the book or author. I read this book awhile back when first came out in two parts.

The first book I loved the concept of two people being destined to be..."


--I'm really iffy about those kinds of scenarios. I really dislike the reincarnated lovers storyline. I'm not saying it can't be done well, but I don't care for it, in general.

[Danielle The Book Huntress , Sees Love in All Colors]

One scenario I just read about in a short story with a pretty well-liked character really turned my stomach. She was alone for the holidays, and a guy shows up on her doorstep needing help. She takes him in and he ends up seducing her. Well, later she finds out that her grandfather set her up to be seduced by this guy so she wouldn't be alone for the holidays. I was repulsed by that storyline. I mean, that's pretty offensive to me for your grandfather to set you up sexually with a man for the holidays. It seemed very inappropriate to me.

[Arch , Mod]

Danielle "The Book Huntress" wrote: "
--What do you mean by getting a little dirty, Arch. Do you mean that in a symbolic sense, such as putting his money where his mouth is, or doing the hard/dirty jobs around the house and in working environments. "

Yes.

[Danielle The Book Huntress , Sees Love in All Colors]

Which one, Dear? Or both?

[A.M.]

Danielle "The Book Huntress" wrote: "One scenario I just read about in a short story with a pretty well-liked character really turned my stomach. She was alone for the holidays, and a guy shows up on her doorstep needing help. She ta..."

Danielle, that does sound pretty gross.

[Davina]

Danielle "The Book Huntress" wrote: "Davina wrote: "Chaeya wrote: I don't do the rape thing, but I sure find the spanking thing highly erotic. I guess because I'm older, I do not want total control as a woman. I like for a man to take..."

No offense taken on my end.

"Rape fantasy" is, as far as I know, the acceptable term to describe this type of female fantasy. It's just the oxymoronic use of the words (associating rape with a fantasy) that makes me cringe. The two don't go together in my mind. For me, fantasy = good thing, rape = very, very, very BAD thing. Even though I know that is not what's meant, when I hear "rape fantasy" I hear 'women fantasizing about being raped'.

I prefer to say there are women who fantasize about having rough sex with a stranger or strangers. But anyway, it's not offensive for me to hear it, per se. It's just a pet peeve. As I said "rape fantasy" is the common book term in this case so you're well within your right to use to it.

ETA: Re rape, some people believe as long as the word NO comes up, even when the woman obviously doesn't mean it, if the sex act continues it's rape. Therefore, to them, persuasive seductions are in essence rape. No disrespect to anyone who believes this, but I can't see the logic in this argument.

[Arch , Mod]

Danielle "The Book Huntress" wrote: "Which one, Dear? Or both?"

Who are you talking to? Me?

[Davina]

Brenda wrote: "Okay here's goes, I won't give the title of the book or author. I read this book awhile back when first came out in two parts.

The first book I loved the concept of two people being destined to be..."

Brenda, I've written a story where, when the heroine thought the hero had died, she moved on with her life. In this context, I find her doing so quite acceptable, but if she'd gone with another man just because the hero has forgotten their life together ... nah. There's a life occurence called building new memories. I'd be mad about that too, Brenda.

Now that you've brought this up, I'm reminded that I've read several books, by a particular author, where the heroines are always married or (sexually) involved with other men even after they've met the heroes. The first few times I encountered this in the books I didn't mind it. I thought it was a fresh approach to bringing h and h together, but after the 10th or so book with the heroines doing the same thing over and over again ... ugh. It became tired and I began to look at it as adultery even when its obvious that the heroine's marriage or partnership with the other guy was over.

[A.M.]

Davina wrote: "Brenda wrote: "Okay here's goes, I won't give the title of the book or author. I read this book awhile back when first came out in two parts.

The first book I loved the concept of two people bei..."

Davina, Maybe it's the prude in me, I find absolutely nothing romantic about a heroine or hero for whatever the reason sleeping with multiple partners.

[A.M.]

Danielle "The Book Huntress" wrote: "Brenda wrote: "Okay here's goes, I won't give the title of the book or author. I read this book awhile back when first came out in two parts.

The first book I loved the concept of two people bei..."

--I didn't have problem with reincarnation concept, what brother me most was she'd been chased her whole adult life waiting for the hero that had haunted her dreams then once she found him and she didn't get the reaction she wanted she has sex another man that the author graphiclly depicted in the story.

I felt like I need a shower after I started reading the scene and guessed where it was heading. At that point I stopped reading.

[Davina]

Brenda wrote: "Davina wrote: "Brenda wrote: "Okay here's goes, I won't give the title of the book or author. I read this book awhile back when first came out in two parts.

The first book I loved the concept of t..."

Then we're prudes together, Brenda. I can't go there either.

That's why I run from certain erotic (paranormal) novels featuring (sometimes simultaneous) multiple partners like the plague. There's a discussion within a discussion about this going on Amazon. I won't mention the book in question, but its by a popular author who even I like. Being that as it may, however, even dead hard fans of this author are shying away from this particular series of books.

I can not begin to fathom why any self-respecting man (or woman) would want, muchless sit around and watch, another man or men (woman/women) do his/her mate. I know there are many people in this country who practice this lifestyle and many readers who enjoy reading about it. I pass no judgement on either group. To each his own, yeah. But, I can not fathom it. There's absolutely nothing romantic about such scenarios, imho.

[A.M.]

Davina wrote: "Brenda wrote: "Davina wrote: "Brenda wrote: "Okay here's goes, I won't give the title of the book or author. I read this book awhile back when first came out in two parts.

The first book I loved..."

We should start a club. LOL.

But I do sometimes find it hard to reconcile the prude in me with the writer. Which is why I don't write under my real name. That said the love scene I write (which take days to put down) are between two consenting unattached adults.

[Arch , Mod]

Brenda, I think a lot of author writes under a pen name.