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Cymbeline
Cymbeline sounds good. I'm looking forward to another great read and discussion!
Mod
http://shakespeare.mit.edu/cymbeline/...
http://www.shakespeare-literature.com...
http://www.enotes.com/cymbeline-text/
http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/1133
Mod
The opening of two gentlemen talking about the events in the Kings family reminded me of tabloid magazines writing about celebrities. It's a funny image the idea of us always being gossipers about the famous people in Shakespeare's time as well as ours.
I thought this opening line was very funny!
First Gentleman
You do not meet a man but frowns: our bloods
No more obey the heavens than our courtiers
Still seem as does the king.
I love the image of the courtiers being so rebelious. There they are introduced into high society to compete with the alpha males and to charm and entertain their women...but they are also such rogues, ha ha! (Of course, after a few more minutes in the play, we find there is a specific courtier they may be referring to...Leonatus...?)
I wonder how many of us had to read The Book of the Courtierby Castiglione in school? I read it for a Humanities course on the Renaisance in first year of university. (Don't be too impressed, I was a drop out ha ha)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courtier
And then in Scene 3 of Act 1, we have more linen!
IMOGEN
Then waved his handkerchief?
PISANIO
And kiss'd it, madam.
IMOGEN
Senseless Linen! happier therein than I!
And that was all?
PISANIO
No, madam; for so long
As he could make me with this eye or ear
Distinguish him from others, he did keep
The deck, with glove, or hat, or handkerchief,
Still waving, as the fits and stirs of 's mind
Could best express how slow his soul sail'd on,
How swift his ship.
Again linen and a woman associated. The Prince Leonatus (oh dear...how close to Leontes! his name is!) kises his handkerceif to Imogen. I suppose kissing it could mean he is kissing the linen that he will be weeping tears into for his loss. Or it could mean the linen represents a feminine quality.
The last Scene of Act 1 is quite a discussion. I don't want to spoil it for other readers here yet...but I found the challenge and conversation got my blood rushing. In both a good and a not so good pulse. What is going to happen! I feel nervous and excited with the "proposition"!!!
Sheesh...MEN! Where do you all get these ideas? Just kidding...it's possibly going to be good fun or a terrible mess. or both!
An excellent first post from the Candy ... but I wondered -- who is here reading the play, and what do we all know about it? I have read it before, indeed it is one of the three plays I have seen live at Stratford. And it was so long ago --- almost half a century, and yet I remember many details of the production vividly. It was 1962, and Vanessa Redgrave was Imogen. Even then she was famous outside theatre for her radical views. The production was very gilt and ornate. Recently I watched the BBC version with Helen Mirren as Imogen, and this I much preferred -- a more "spiritual" and reflective interpretation of the play. (I felt this was one of the very best of the BBC Shakespeares incidentally.) I have also read it two or more times. So it's important that I don't chuck in a lot of ideas and assumptions based on my preconceptions.Reading it again though, I see it in quite a new light, as always seems to happen when returning to Shakespeare! "Sheesh, men" as Candy says, and I expect the women readers to have great fun with this play.
I'll add something about the play tomorrow. Meanwhile there's a tiny problem worth mentioning, that the etexts Candy lists divide Act 1 into 6 scenes, whereas my edition follows the First Folio in dividing it into 7 scenes. I just thought I'd mention that in case references to Act 1 scene 3 and so on lead to ambiguity.
Hi, Everybody,I am reading MIT's script and Roger Warren's annotated version of the play. The Queen is purely 'Snow White', and Imogen encounters the elves in the guise of her disguised brothers. Besides the Queen, duplicitous characters are the Italian gentleman named Iachimo and Cloten, the Queen's son and would-be king. Although no character gets an A+ on good behavior throughout the play, Imogen, Pisanio, and Cornelius approach the ideal of virtuousness.
The opening scene of Act I introduces the audience to the present circumstances at the castle--a low-born but morally worthy man has married Imogen without her father's consent.
According to scholars, Shakespeare possibly drew material for Cymbeline's plot from these sources:*Holinshed's Chronicles
*Boccaccio's Decameron (II.9)
*The Rare Triumphs of Love and Fortune
*Geoffrey of Monmouth's tale about the historical Cunobelinus, a British king
*Tasso's 'Gerusalemme Liberata' in "Godfrey of Boulogne, or The Mirrour of Knighthood"
*Ovid's 'tale of Tereus' in the Metamorphoses.
I confess never to have read Castiglione's Courtier, despite a couple of attempts. I have however read Geoffrey of Monmouth's History of Britian, translated out of the Latin, though skipping the interminable "prophecies of Merlin" at the end. (Asmah, Eric Porter is a family mystery. Everyone who knew my father noticed the similarity in looks, but there is nothing in Eric Porter's biography that suggests a connection with my Porters, who were humble village people from Leicestershire. And Porter is a common surname. Eric Porter became known on TV only after my father had rather lost touch with his family.)I had forgotten the breakneck speed of this play. Postumus is exiled and Iachimo pops over to Britain almost before the queen has time to organise her bottles of poison. The planned seduction of Imogen, and its failure, take place as soon Iachimo has met her, and he still finds time to set plan B into operation (the chest to go into her chamber).
We can grasp the medley of sources and styles from Asmah's account above, but I wonder what it would have been like for a first audience? As with TWT, it takes some time before you realise you're in the ancient world. The best clues in Act I are the references to the gods rather than god, and the Roman name Leonatus Postumus. With that understanding, an educated viewer would surely have recognised the wager scene as being deliberately modern -- and amusing perhaps because of that.
The scene Candy quotes, between Imogen and Pisanio, seemed almost like a metaphor of prayers to heaven, with Imogen as the Virgin, or at least a blessed spirit. "The haven" of the first line makes us think of heaven (as well as the many refereces to Milford Haven that will come later.)
" ... if he should write,
And I not have it, 'twere a paper lost
As offered mercy is."
Is the paper a purchased indulgence, for which Imogen cannot grant mercy because she does not see it, or is it a paper that contains a reprieve from execution, which, if delivered, would spare her from the grief she suffers?
"At the sixth hour of morn, at noon, at midnight,
To encounter me with orisons, for then
I am in heaven for him."
-- ready to receive his prayers.
Postumus is initially described by,
... I do not think
So fair an outward and such stuff within
Endows a man but he.
He certainly disappoints this report. His only virtue seems to be valour, for which skill in fencing is a useful support. He is rather like Laertes from Hamlet, perhaps. Just as Claudius suggests to Laertes that Hamlet is jealous of his reputation (though we know this to be false), Iachimo's driver seems to be a jealousy he feels, not so much for the man, but for the report that follows him around.
On the subject of "courtiers and coutesans" I got quite interested in the references to prostitution in the last scene of Act I.
"Slaver with lips as common as the stairs
That mount the Capitol"
This means kissing the lips of women, which see as much use as the steps that go up the hill of the Capitol in Rome. I've done a bit of research here: in classical times there were zigzag steps that went from the Forum up to the Temple of Jupiter. If you go to the Forum these days, any such pathway is off the permitted route of the entrance fee of course, but there are steps up the Capitol hill (outside the Forum and on the south(?) side), which date from the 14th century, the steps up to Santa Maria in Aracoeli, on the left here (the walk on the right is an inclined ramp),
-- although the picture does not suggest heavy traffic. In any case, Iachimo's metaphor exactly matches the Roman topography.
join gripes, with hands
Made hard with hourly falsehood -- falsehood, as
With labour ...
I think this is a lovely image, that the hardness of hands comes from hard labour, but a person is made "hard" by the lying that goes with a life of vice. The prostitute, like the manual worker, is shown sympathetically.
... to be partnered
With tomboys hired with that self exhibition
Which your own coffers yield.
Interesting, this old use of "tomboy". An exhibition means a sum of money (when I was at college I received a small extra sum that was called an "exhibition"), and it means Imogen herself is paying for all this, but of course, the prostitute also lives by "self exhibition".
... diseased ventures
That play with all infirmities for gold
Which rottenness can lend nature
The obscurity here reminds me of the difficulties in Act I of TWT, but the footnotes in the Arden edition help. "ventures" means people, of some sort, the prostitutes or their clients or both, and they are diseased with VD. They get gold by the weakness of others, but the gold becomes the principal which rottenness, as a moneylender, lends to nature.
... such boiled stuff
As well might poison poison
"boiled" (thank heavens for the notes in the Arden Shakespeare!) refers to a cure for VD. The people who've had the cure could poison poison itself. This, I take it, contrasts with the queen's poison, which the physician explains is not deadly.
Martin wrote: "An excellent first post from the Candy ... but I wondered -- who is here reading the play, and what do we all know about it? I have read it before, indeed it is one of the three plays I have seen l..."Martin, I saw an excellent production of Cymbeline at the American Shakespeare Center back in 2008. I've also read the play, and watched the BBC version, which I must admit, I did not care for as much.
As mentioned in some of the other posts, Cymbeline has a fast-paced, complicated plot. For me, it lends itself to comedy rather than to a more somber, serious approach (which was what bothered me about the BBC version).
The play also has strong artificial elements to it, which also work better when played for comedy.
At the beginning of Scene 1, for example, the exchange between the two gentleman is an extreme exposition dump, necessary for the reader or viewer to know the complicated background for the story, but it is immediately recognized as pure exposition. It is like the scenes from past episodes of TV shows that are sometimes broadcast to catch viewers up on the story. So when the first gentleman tells about Cymbeline's lost sons, the audience is rather pointedly told to pay close attention-- this is an important plot point:
"...He had two sons: if this be worth your hearing,
Mark it: the eldest of them at three years old,
I' the swathing-clothes the other, from their nursery
Were stol'n, and to this hour no guess in knowledge
Which way they went."
This is soon followed up:
Second Gentleman: That a king's children should be so convey'd,
So slackly guarded, and the search so slow,
That could not trace them!
First Gentleman: Howsoe'er 'tis strange,
Or that the negligence may well be laugh'd at,
Yet is it true, sir.
Here, admittedly, interpretation makes the difference. To me, this is a comic exchange. Given the artificiality of the plot device of the long lost sons, even its absurdity, this exchange would bring a laugh from the audience. No doubt it could also be played straight and serious, but for me, it would be the worse for it.
Later on in Scene IV, when Posthumus agrees to the wager with Iachimo over Imogen's virtue, the audience collectively reacts "Now, that's not a good idea!" The situation is artificial (but entertaining), and spins the plot off in a new, farcical direction.
Mod
I shall try to find a version of the play that has the acts the same as you all. Sorry for any confusion.
Ray, I am with you...there seems to be a lot of potential for comedy in this play. As I said, I immediately had a laugh just listeneing to the first two gentleman. I also found some of the lnes here has quite a funny jolt...like Martins
"Slaver with lips as common as the stairs
That mount the Capitol"
I had a gigle at this one. It's so vivid...and a funny image.
I didn't pick up on the potential significance of "the papers". I must think some on this...very interesting. But I LOVED the bit here...
"At the sixth hour of morn, at noon, at midnight,
To encounter me with orisons, for then
I am in heaven for him."
And doesn't this hold up for much law enforcement today?
Second Gentleman: "That a king's children should be so convey'd,
So slackly guarded, and the search so slow,
That could not trace them!"
I can't help but think of that coupe that outraged everyone who snuck in to a Presidential party last month. such a hoopla...over what? Rich people sneaking in to a party but law enforcement couldn't stop them. And the sadder more grave slips of the plane from Amsterdam to U.S.
Don't worry about the "confusion" Candy. To explain: all your on-line versions agree with each other. But in the 1st Folio, when the two gentlemen go off in I.1, there is a scene end. Later editors suppress this scene end, and make the queen's entrance a continuation of the same scene. I'm reading an Arden edition edited by a guy called J.M. Nosworthy, who, like so many Arden editors, devotes a lot of his footnotes to explaining why the previous Arden editor got it wrong. Nosworthy's view is that there has been too much editorial tampering with this play, and there is rarely a good case for trying to improve on the text of the Folio, so one of the things he does is restore the extra scene number. That's all.Hi Ray, glad you are with the read. I did not of course see your American Shakespeare Center production, but I can imagine a lively comic interpetation might be more appealing than the sombre BBC version. Of course all the BBC versions suffer to some extent by not playing to a live audience. There is surely a danger though, that one might just play Cymbeline for laughs because the whole story is felt to be ridiculous. But to pursue that further at this point might introduce spoilers ...
I was conscious in Act I of an unusual degree of audience engagement. In the 1962 production I saw, the opening was adapted so that Gent 1 tells his story to a group of younger people, lying on the ground around him. This group divided the lines of Gent 2 among them. But you could also have Gent 1 telling his tale to the audience, as a kind of prologue, with Gent 2 adding a few prompts from the side. The apothecary's speech, starting,
I do not like her. She doth think she has
Strange lingering poisons ...
has to be addressed to the audience. He hardly needs to tells himself what he already knows. It is interesting how quickly, and deliberately, Shakespeare defuses the dramatic tension here by telling us there is no harm in the poisons the queen has.
The third case (and rather puzzling) is the second lord of I.2. First lord flatters Cloten, second lord explains to the audience what really happened. The puzzle is the dullness of the second lord's lines. If you read the scene without second lord, the Shakespearean magic comes back. You wonder if second lord wasn't a non-Shakespearean afterthought, added in so the audience would fully understand that Cloten is not giving the correct version of events.
Asmah, I guess you are reading Warren's book on questia. Could you tell us what you think of it?
There is an enormous research library at Questia--books, etc, not always conveniently on hand at home or in a small library. The membership fee in comparison with the value to be obtained is a find. ------------------------------
The "Shakespeare's Globe Research Bulletin", Issue Number 22 May 2002 by Dr Jaq Bessell from the Royal Shakespeare Company has terrific notes for a production of this play:
www.globelink.org/docs/Cymbeline_Bull...
Shakespeare's setting is Britain, Rome, and Wales, although Iachimo is Italian, at the time before the Roman conquest. Thus, "Asimov's Guide to Shakespeare" (1970) calls Cymbeline one of Shakespeare's 'English Plays' in comparison to some other plays set in Greece, Rome, or Italy. Note that the name for Wales is Cambria and Cymru, the latter starts like Cymbeline.
Hi, Asmah, do you feel you're struggling with this play a bit? The British scenes in Act I are at the Court, and I suppose Shakespeare and his audience would automatically have thought of London, despite the legend of Camelot. (But remember that the Court was a huge institution. A thousand or more people might be at court, and it was spread between many palaces: Whitehall, Hampton Court, Greenwich, Richmond, Westminster, St James, Windsor Castle ... It had no precise location, any more than "Government" has a precise location in Washington.)I.4 is more of a puzzle, "SCENE IV. Rome. Philario's house. Enter PHILARIO, IACHIMO, a Frenchman, a Dutchman, and a Spaniard." But does the Rome location emerge in the scene? I don't think so. The Dutchman and Spaniard are ghost characters, and don't have any lines. Is the idea to suggest a kind of Roman Empire internationalism?
Exile to Rome is an odd idea. Usually exile was from Rome (Caius Marius, Ovid, Cicero ...). Today exile seems like an easy punishment -- compared, say, to imprisonment or even house arrest, but to the ancient Romans it was seen as very severe, and hard to endure.
It may not be too early to recommend the BBC version of I.6 (they call it I.7 -- how confusing this all is!), which you can see on youtube in two parts,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lztL-K...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKxbUp...
-- and to beg Ray to reconsider his feeling about this production. Surely Shakespeare is never better acted than this?
Martin, no begging necessary! A simple request would be enough to get me at least to revisit my initial impression... Thank you for bringing this scene to our attention. It has been a while since I saw it. The acting was certainly fine (as one would expect from Helen Mirren in whatever decade). But alas, my earlier opinion remains. It is not the acting per se that is the problem for me with this production. It is the tone. This scene can be masterfully comic, as the devilishly clever Iachimo plies Imogen with lies about Posthumus' debauchery. The audience should be in suspense, hoping that Imogen will hold fast, but at the same time impressed with the villain's cunning and resourcefulness.
Instead, to me the scene here seems slow and ponderous. The actors are largely static, little more than talking heads on the screen. Iachimo comes across as peevish rather than clever, and I do not see any reason why Imogen would be tempted by him, even if she did believe his lies.
I think the character of Iachimo is a terrific villain. As with Richard III, one wants to root for him and his evil schemes just because he is so resourceful and able to think on his feet.
However, there's a certain vulnerability about Iachimo that is missing in Richard III. In a speech from this scene (that was edited out of the BBC version) Iachimo admits to himself when he first sees Imogen that she may indeed be everything that Posthumus said she was. He fears that his wager is lost before it even begins, but he vows to give it his best shot.
IACHIMO: [Aside:] All of her that is out of door most rich!
If she be furnish'd with a mind so rare,
She is alone the Arabian bird, and I
Have lost the wager. Boldness be my friend!
Arm me, audacity, from head to foot!
On a separate note, we talked earlier about how complicated the plot of Cymbeline is. I was wondering how on earth could one encapsulate the story in brief. But Imogen's opening monologue in this scene does precisely that, covering all the main points so far in just a few lines:
IMOGEN: A father cruel, and a step-dame false;
A foolish suitor to a wedded lady,
That hath her husband banish'd;--O, that husband!
My supreme crown of grief! and those repeated
Vexations of it! Had I been thief-stol'n,
As my two brothers, happy!
That Shakespeare knew a little something about concise writing!
Parts of the BBC production can be seen on YouTube. Fast-thinking Iachimo in I.7 talks quickly and his words are incomprehensible in the video. A listener must already know the scene to fully enjoy Iachimo's dramatization. Otherwise, you miss the subtle transitions in his dialogue. Ray previously noted Iachimo's quickness of speech and thinking. These traits might be a convention for dishonest, manipulative Italian gentlemen of the Renaissance.A DVD starring Helen Mirren in Imogen's role provided visual dramatization to interpret the play. In it, Imogen's despairing after her death-like sleep resembles a tragic Greek heroine. A good thing, Shakespeare did not follow that formula to the bitter end.
----------------
American Theatre Wing produced two podcasts prior to their Lincoln Center Nov-Dec 2007 version of Cymbeline. John Cullum (King Cymbeline) and André Bishop (artistic director) were interviewed. But, the conversation diverged from the play to biography and NYC theater. There are few audio-visuals about this play. And, not having attended this particular production, their digressions disappointed.
1. Downstage Center - John Cullum - December, 2007
...s Cymbeline at Lincoln Center Theater, but better known for ...
http://americantheatrewing.org/downst...
2. Downstage Center - André Bishop - November, 2007
...election of Cymbeline and South Pacific for the current seas...
http://americantheatrewing.org/downst...
-------------
The history and mythology of Britain and Rome was very much appreciated.
Mod
Ray, In the BBC version I watched Iachimo does have his "aside" realizing that Imogen is a much more substantial woman than he had assumed...he does say [Aside:] All of her that is out of door most rich!
If she be furnish'd with a mind so rare,
She is alone the Arabian bird, and I
Have lost the wager. Boldness be my friend!
Arm me, audacity, from head to foot!
Or, like the Parthian, I shall flying fight;
Rather directly fly.
Right after she opens the letter from Posthumus...at 1 minute 50 seconds in the link Martin provided.
I do agree with you Ray though...that there are so many opportunities for a comedic portrayal. I haven't seen it done such, but I can imagine it. I guess for this scene the way I felt was that it represents how serious the Princess could be.
Asmah, I found this scene so exciting and I can see why it would be helpful to note all it's complexities. I love the way it is a cat and mouse dialogue. I mean Iachimo must have been quite shocked by Imogen's sincere heart when she opened the love letter from Posthumus.
And when she is so angry at him making claims against Posthumus' character and she is going to tell her father King Cymbeline...he has to work quickly to let her know he was "just testing her"...
I really find this quite exciting. And of course...frustrating because it feels like something terrible is going to happen...
Candy wrote: "I thought Helen Mirren was really good in this scene. I do see it also a just a touch somber. The way I took this though is that she really is sad about the whole affair. Ray, In the BBC version ..."
Somehow I still miss the Iachimo speech in the YouTube version... But I certainly didn't want to get into a discussion of the relative merits of a particular production of the play. (In fact, I'm very grateful for the BBC productions, including this one. For a lot of the seldom produced plays, they are the only versions available.)
My real point is that there is _a lot_ of humor in this play that can be brought out in performance, but which might be missed from reading it silently. The play is certainly rich enough to inspire a number of valid approaches. I just happen to be partial to a comic one.
Ray wrote: "Cymbeline sounds good. I'm looking forward to another great read and discussion!"Your optimism is truly encouraging and very much appreciated.
Martin wrote: "...it takes some time before you realise you're in the ancient world. The best clues in Act I are the references to the gods rather than god, and the Roman name Leonatus Postumus...."Peter Saccio's lecture for The Teaching Company, 'The Plot of Cymbeline', in 'Shakespeare: The Word and the Action' says that Romans named fatherless babies Posthumus. Although we ordinarily emphasize the first syllable of the name--Pos'- tu - mus--an actor or reader will say Pos - tu' - mus to conform to Shakespeare's rhyme scheme.
The waving linen handkerchief that Imogen imagines Posthumus would have waved during a drawn-out departure shows Shakespeare's intermingling the Middle Ages with the Renaissance, the linen or the handkerchief being of a later date.
Candy wrote: "If she be furnish'd with a mind so rare,She is alone the Arabian bird, and I
Have lost the wager. ..."
In the above lecture, "the Arabian bird" is the mythical phoenix of many myths, one of these being it builds its nest in the highest branches, burns up from the sun, and is reborn from the ashes. We can see the way Shakespeare uses this imagery about Imogen in a later Act.
Asimov's similar myth (p59) of the phoenix is: the rare, five-hundred-year-old bird builds a nest of spices, sets fire to it, dying while singing; then arising anew like each day's sunrise. Asimov also notes Imogen's resemblance to the phoenix by her unequaled "feminine virtue".
Asmah, did you get the Peter Saccio lectures on CD, or can you hear them anywhere on the internet? They sound interesting.
Yes, you can see Shakespeare's prononciation of Posthumus in these lines,
That lo'ck up you'r restrai'nt. For you', Posthu'mus
It is' your fau'lt that I' have lo'ved Posthu'mus
Similarly in the Tempest you find that "Milan" has to be pronounced Mi'lan rather than Mila'n.
Now to bore everyone with Roman male names. In full form they were in three parts, praenomen, nomen, cognomen, as in "Marcus Tullius Cicero", "Publius Ovidius Naso" (Cicero and Ovid, exiles mentioned above). If you were born posthumously, "Postumus" might be tagged on after the cognomen. An example is "Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa", whose name appears on the Pantheon, which he caused to be built,
[image error]
who had a son, born after his death, who was called "Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa Postumus".
Names were generally abbreviated, so this luckless character is usually just called "Agrippa Postumus", like the "Leonatus Posthumus" of Cymbeline. Incidentally, the part of the name that indicates the Roman family you came from is the second part rather the the third part -- "Vipsanius" rather than "Agrippa". Girls in the family would be called "Vipsania".
Mod
Asmah, the Saccio lecture does sound good. I like the observation bout the mixing up of time too. The Renaissance was full of this interest in ancient history and art yet the paintings of the time would have anachronisms in them too...like the linen reference.
Martin the Roman male names aren't boring, I enjoyed that. A side note...my father's family being Danish used to differentiate gender in the last names! When he went to Denmark to visit famiily, he visited the graves of his grandfather and other family members including an aunt. The graves had their names for example the ended with "sen" or "datter" for son or daughter. What a strange concept that one's own sibling would have a different ending on their same name!
Candy wrote: "Hi Ray! I agree with you about the humour, I was laughing at many of the lines and ideas in ti play so far..."Crafty Iachimo in 1.6 tries to deceive Imogen. Although she seems to foil his scheme, he deceives again in the story about the trunk, which furthers the plot with unfortunate consequences.
Another bit of jest is Lord 2's asides in conversation with vain Cloten. And, Cornelius's asides in conversation with the Queen informs the audience about the depth of her malevolence when he counters her request for poison with a sleeping potion.
1.1 by contrast in which the Gentlemen introduce the play with a background narrative was a truthful telling. Others might find something else in the opening.
It suddenly hit me ...... but someone must have noticed it before. I spotted it after thinking about Agrippa, Agrippa Postumus, and exile, following the earlier post, and seeing Augustus named as emperor in Act 2. The Cymbeline story mirrors that of Augustus. Check out the bios of Agippa Postumus and Tiberius on wikipedia to fill in the details.
Cymbeline lost two sons as infants (stolen). Augustus adopted two young men to be his heirs, Gaius and Lucius, both of whom died when young. Augustus had one child, a daughter, Julia. Julia corresponds to Imogen. Augustus remarried to Livia, who became empress, and whom the historian Tacitus hints may have poisoned her enemies. (The idea of Livia as poisoner is central to Robert Graves Claudius novels. Historically it is very doubtful.) This is the Queen, with her bottles of poison. Augustus and Livia had no children, so after the death of Gaius and Lucius, he adopted as heirs his stepson, Tiberius (=Cloten), Livia's son from her previous marriage, and the posthumous son of his great general, Agrippa, Agrippa Postumus. Agrippa Posthumus is therefore Leonatus Posthumus, whose father was soldier. But, like Leonatus, Agrippa Postumus was exiled. After that the stories diverge. Julia married Tiberius, and Agrippa Postumus was done away with when Augustus died. Further, Tacitus describes Agrippa Postumus not as a noble Roman (like Leonatus Posthumus), but as a loutish character, rather like Cloten. The nearest thing to Leonatus is Tacitus' Germanicus, who was Tiberius' nephew.
Real history has been adapted by Shakespeare and his sources--Geoffrey of Monmouth and Holinshed--in regard to the historical British king Cunobelinus, whose reign spanned the era of Christ's birth: [POSSIBLY ACCURATE:]"Cunobelinus (also written Kynobellinus, Κυνοβελλίνος in Greek, sometimes abbreviated to Cunobelin) (late 1st century BC - 40s AD) was a historical king in pre-Roman Britain, known from passing mentions by classical historians Suetonius and Dio Cassius, and from his many inscribed coins. He appears to have controlled a substantial portion of south-eastern England, and is called "Britannorum rex" ("king of the Britons") by Suetonius. He also appears in British legend as Cynfelyn (Welsh), Kymbelinus (Medieval Brito-Latin) or Cymbeline (Shakespeare, et al.), in which form he is the subject of a play by William Shakespeare...Cunobelinus had three sons, Adminius, Togodumnus and Caratacus, and a brother, Epaticcus..."
VS.
[FICTIONALIZED:] "In Geoffrey of Monmouth's Historia Regum Britanniae (1136) he appears as Kymbelinus, son of Tenvantius, a powerful warrior who was raised in the courts of Augustus. He was very friendly with the Roman court: his country was equipped with Roman weapons, and all tributes to Rome were paid out of respect, not out of requirement. He had two sons, Guiderius and Arvirargus. Guiderius succeeded him, but died in the early stages of Claudius's invasion, leaving Arvirargus to carry on the fight...
Geoffrey's story was incorporated into Raphael Holinshed's Chronicles in 1577,[11:] where it was found by William Shakespeare and used as the basis of his romance, Cymbeline. Beyond the name there is virtually nothing in common between the figure of Cymbeline and the historical Cunobelinus"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cunobelinus
RSC Rehearsal bulletin for Cymbeline (2.1) ***"Act II, Scene 1 Cloten learns of an Italian stranger at the Court...
Cloten announces that his status prevents him from fighting in earnest...
Cloten learns of the presence at Court of an Italian friend of Posthumus...
2nd Lord marvels that the Queen could give birth to such an idiot...
2nd Lord wishes Imogen well."
********************
The MAC dictionary defines the game of bowls to resemble bocce and pétanque: played on a lawn with a jack (a small ball). Large, wooden balls are thrown near the jack.
Cloten's conversation with two Lords is obsequiously respected, but Lord Two's asides to the audience indicate his true thoughts about the Queen's son.
Asmah, I listened to parts of the two broadcasts you refer to in message #19. Very nice, but I do disagree with is the way they suggest Cymbeline is a difficult play to understand, because of the great complexity of plot. Surely the difficulty in Shakespeare is in the language, and Cymbeline is much easier than TWT it seems to me. And it is not so much a complex plot as a story rich in incident. The difference in the histories attached to Cymbeline (your message #30) are remarkable. Geoffrey of Monmouth was not quite a historian, however. He invents an imaginary history of Celtic Britain, based on myths and legends that survived to his time. The result is something like the Aeneid plus the early books of Livy (in scope if not in achievement). So it starts with the fall of Troy, has "Brutus" sail to Britain, just as Aeneas sailed to Italy, and takes in the stories of many Kings and heroes, most of them fictitious: Lear, Cymbeline, King Cole, Arthur, Merlin and the rest. Roman Emperors also get mentioned, as does the birth of Jesus (in the middle of the Cymbeline story, incidentally). The sense of myth overlaying history is of course reflected in Shakespeare's play.
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There has clearly been an incident on the bowling green where Cloten was rebuked for swearing, but I don't think he was ejected. His rage is that he lost money in the game. "I had a hundred pound on't". Of course in Shakespeare's time this was a huge sum. Then he hopes to get the money back by playing cards with Iachimo ("no derogation in't" as Asmah observes). We learn in 2.3 that this has not been a success, from the flattery, "your lordship is the most patient man in loss". We are left to imagine Cloten and Iachimo playing cards, but it does not surprise us that Iachimo cleans him out. This is why Cloten is after Imogen. Her fortune will feed his gambling habit. "If I could get this foolish Imogen, I should have gold enough."
My earlier suspicion that Lord 2 is an afterthought cannot be right, looking at his use in 2.1 and 2.3. Cloten has just enough intelligence to argue his case hotly with Imogen, and to be able to understand her very subtle insults, and enough aggression to be dangerous to her safety.
But the really wonderful part of Act 2 (to which the Cloten scenes, surely, are intended to act as a foil) is the bedchamber scene, and the scene with Iachimo back in Italy, winning his wager against Posthumus (I wonder if he cheated equally when playing cards with Cloten?)
Iachimo is given the greatest poetry,
... the flame o' the taper
Bows toward her, and would under-peep her lids,
To see the enclosed lights, now canopied
Under these windows, white and azure laced
With blue of heaven's own tinct.
The white and azure lacing of window curtains becomes an image to describe the network of veins on Imogen's eyelids. And three lights come together, of the night-light, of Imogen's eyes, of the sky above.
GIACOMO'S SOLILOQUY (Roger Warren, CYMBELINE, 1998, pp129-130)"The crickets sing, and man's o'er-laboured sense
Repairs itself by rest. Our Tarquin thus
Did softly press the rushes ere he wakened
The chastity he wounded. Cytherea,
How bravely thou becom'st thy bed, fresh lily, 15
And whiter than the sheets! That I might touch,But kiss, one kiss! Rubies unparagoned,
How dearly they do't! 'Tis her breathing that
Perfumes the chamber thus. The flame o'th' taper
Bows toward her, and would underpeep her lids 20
To see th'enclosèd lights, now canopied Under these windows, white and azure-laced
With blue of heaven's own tinct..."(2.2)
Roger Warren's "Cymbeline" footnotes the soliloquy's connection to Ovid and Livy's myth of Lucretia and to Shakespeare's own poem 'Venus and Adonis':
line 12 Our Tarquin Tarquin was a semi-legendary king of Rome, notorious for his rape of Lucrece, the subject of one of Shakespeare's two narrative poems. (The other, Venus and Adonis, is much echoed in this soliloquy, whose eroticism resembles that of the poem.) The force of Our is that Giacomo, like Tarquin, is Italian; by associating himself with a legendary rapist at the start of his speech, Giacomo raises the possibility of rape here too.
line 16 whiter . . . sheets Compare Venus 398: 'Teaching the sheets a whiter hue than white'.
line 18 dearly beautifully, exquisitely do't i.e. kiss. He has presumably kissed her in the previous line, or does so here; it is dramatically important that he should be so overwhelmed by her beauty as to run the risk of waking her by kissing her; this leads naturally into his next phrase, about her breathing. Some editors interpret do't as the lips kissing each other, but this is surely strained and much less dramatically effective, despite the support of Venus 505: 'Long may [Adonis' lips:] kiss each other'.
18-19 'Tis her . . . thus Compare Venus 443-4: 'For from the stillitory [still:] of thy face excelling | Comes breath perfumed, that breedeth love by smelling.' So here Innogen's breath 'breeds love' in Giacomo.
[btw, Iachimo's lyrical soliloquy might also be sung, and become the fourth song of the play: Hark hark, dirge, petition to Jupiter. Arkangel's '3-CD, unabridged, dramatized' audio presents an excellent example of this soliloquy.]
Another source:
"Lucrece draws on the story described in both Ovid's Fasti and Livy's history of Rome. In 509 BC, Sextus Tarquinius, son of Tarquin, the king of Rome, raped Lucretia (Lucrece), wife of Collatinus, one of the king's aristocratic retainers. As a result, Lucrece committed suicide. Her body was paraded in the Roman Forum by the king's nephew. This incited a full-scale revolt against the Tarquins led by Lucius Junius Brutus, the banishment of the royal family, and the founding of the Roman republic...
"Shakespeare retains the essence of the classic story, incorporating Livy's account that Tarquin's lust for Lucrece sprang from her husband's own praise of her. Shakespeare later used the same idea in the late romance Cymbeline (circa 1609-1610). In this play, Iachimo bets Posthumus (her [Imogen's:] husband) that he can make Imogen commit adultery with him. He does not succeed, however is able to convince Posthumus he had using information about Imogen's bedchamber and body. Iachiamo has hidden in a trunk which has been delivered to Imogen's chamber under the pretence of safekeeping some jewels, a gift for her father King Cymbeline. The scene in which he emerges from the trunk (2.2) mimics the scene in The Rape of Lucrece. Indeed, Iachimo compares himself to Tarquin in the scene: "Our Tarquin thus, / Did softly press the rushes ere he waken'd / The chastity he wounded" (2.2.12-14)."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rape...
Here is an additional view of the play's British setting from http://www.cummingsstudyguides.net/xC...
"SETTINGS...
The action takes place in ancient England, Wales, and Rome in the age when the forces of imperial Rome invaded and occupied Britain (probably between 10 and 14 A.D.). However, there is a fairy-tale quality to the play that transcends time and place. Specific locales include Cymbeline's palace in England (perhaps in the vicinity of the present-day city of Colchester, which is northeast of London and south of Ipswich, in the county of Essex along the North Sea coastline), a house in Rome, a cave in the mountains of Wales, the port of Milford Haven in southwest Wales, a Roman military encampment in Britain, and a field of battle in Britain."
"THE HISTORICAL CYMBELINE
King Cymbeline is known to history as Cunobelinus, who ruled over southeastern Britain from 10 A.D. to 41 A.D. from his capital in Colchester, then known as Camulodunum, on the Colne River. [Curiously, for whatever it is worth, the pronunciation of the first seven letters of Camulodunum–Camulod–sounds not unlike the legendary name for King Arthur's residence, Camelot.:] The Roman historian Suetonius referred to Cunobelinus as the king of all the Britons. During his reign, Cunobelinus kept Roman advancement at bay, forging treaties with Emperors Augustus Caesar and Tiberius. An invasion attempt by forces of the demented Emperor Caligula came to naught in 40 A.D. However, Romans under Emperor Claudius I captured Camulodunum in 43 B.C. and ruled it as the first Roman colony in Britain."
Martin wrote: "Asmah, I listened to parts of the two broadcasts you refer to in message #19. Very nice, but I do disagree with is the way they suggest Cymbeline is a difficult play to understand, because of the g..."While I like the play Cymbeline overall, Act II is one of my favorite acts in all Shakespeare. As Martin points out, the oafish antics of Cloten (especially the scene where Cloten hires musicians to serenade Imogen in the early morning--what a buffoon!) are a great foil to Iachimo's crafty exploits. The trunk scene and the scene where Iachimo convinces Posthumus about Imogen's supposed infidelity are both wonderful. In the latter scene, Posthumus starts out smugly confident, and Iachimo slowly crushes his ideals, like a boa constrictor his prey. All one can do is sit back and watch Posthumus squirm.
Ray wrote: "While I like the play Cymbeline overall, Act II is one of my favorite acts in all Shakespeare...Iachimo slowly crushes his ideals, like a boa constrictor his prey..."In 2.4, Iachimo convinces Posthumus and Philario of Imogen's infidelity with tangible evidence about her room, body, and belongings. Ray's superb simile describes Iachimo's malicious effect on Posthumus: Iachimo slowly crushes his ideals, like a boa constrictor his prey. Posthumus's falling apart into despair is madly dramatized and is illogically generalized to include Posthumus's unhappiness with every woman.
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RSC Bulletin summary:
"Act II, Scene 4
Iachimo convinces Posthumus with the evidence he brings back that Imogen has been unfaithful with him
...Posthumus expresses his confidence in Imogen
...Posthumus reveals his inability to change his situation
...Posthumus and Philario debate the outcome of the meeting between Caius Lucius and Cymbeline
...Iachimo returns early with a letter from Imogen
...Philario enquires about Caius Lucius while Posthumus reads his letter
...Posthumus throws doubt on Iachimo’s protestations of success
...Iachimo gives Posthumus all his proof (a) He describes Imogen’s bedchamber (b) He produces the bracelet (c) He describes the mole on Imogen’s breast
...Posthumus threatens to harm Imogen"
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Bibliography:
Isaac Asimov's book, GUIDE TO SHAKESPEARE;
Humphrey Tonkin's FIVE LECTURES ON SHAKESPEARE’S ROMANCES: Pericles, Cymbeline, The Winter’s Tale (2), The Tempest http://uhaweb.hartford.edu/TONKIN/pdf...
Ray in Message 18 pointed out Shakespeare's concise language to summarize the Imogen's predicament. That awareness made to stand out another encapsulation where Lord 2 summarizes with a prayer Imogen's subsequent circumstances and foreshadows the next part of the play:"Alas, poor Princess,-Victor L. Cahn, "Shakespeare the Playwright: A Companion to the Complete Tragedies, Histories, Comedies, and Romances" (Praeger, 1996) p763.
Thou divine Imogen, what thou endur'st,
Betwixt a father by thy step-dame govern'd,
A mother hourly coining plots, a wooer
More hateful than the foul expulsion is
Of thy dear husband, than that horrid act
Of the divorce he'ld make. The heavens hold firm
The walls of thy dear honor; keep unshak'd
That temple, thy fair mind, that thou mayst stand
T' enjoy thy banish'd lord and this great land.
(II, i, 56-65)"
Mod
Now as we move into Act 3...I found myself wondering..right away Cymbeline and the Queen are discussing Britain and the effect of Caesar on the country. I am wondering if perhaps this love story is a mirror for some history? Or it is a lesson to apply against the relationship between Rome and Britain?
Mod
My apologizes to all participants... had some serious paperwork and meetings in the last two weeks...absolutely overwhelming but all is taken care of nd I am back well immersed into catchign up on this discussion and realy enjoying this play. Act 3 is quite a mystery to me at the moment...see above post...
I suspect that the audience was to learn that government and citizens should have the kind of faith that Imogen and her young lover have...and not to be betrayed or mislead by rumours. A simple theme I suppose but deadly if faith isn't in the people or their leaders.
Mod
I may be off-base here, but it's something I'm going to be looking out for in the rest of the play.
Candy wrote: "...The Prince Leonatus (oh dear...how close to Leontes!..."Leonatus and Leontes from Cymbeline and from The Winter's Tale are central characters who energize their plots' conflict. Their delusions and authority to bring about injustice is averted in part by other characters. King Leontes jails innocent Hermione, but Pauline's activity, Mamillius' death, and Perdita's good fortune, etc, mostly undo Leontes' bad decisions. Imogen's husband, Leonatus, plots against her but Pisanio refuses to carry out his order. Hence, a comedy which could have become a tragedy.
William Witherle Lawrence in "Shakespeare's Problem Comedies" (Macmillan, 1931) pp176-79
Martin wrote: "...the etexts Candy lists divide Act 1 into 6 scenes, whereas my edition follows the First Folio in dividing it into 7 scenes. I just thought I'd mention that in case references to Act 1 scene 3 and so on lead to ambiguity...."Besides 1.1.69-70, there is possibly another divided scene between Iachimo's lie about Imogen (2.4) and Posthumus's soliloquy against women (2.5). The latter scene is on YouTube, showing Dominic Kelly, a London actor dramatizing that speech on a bicycle through London's streets.
http://bardbox.wordpress.com/?s=domin...
Ray wrote: "But alas, my earlier opinion remains. It is not the acting per se that is the problem for me with this production. It is the tone...the scene here seems slow and ponderous..."The BBC production in my opinion had a chilly set. Arkangel's audio recording in the absence of a set produced a livelier dramatization.
I found Candy's note on Rome=Catholicism in this play really interesting, because that is a connection that Joyce seems to be making in Ulysses. Twice Stephen sees smoke rising, and is reminded of the "crooked smokes" in the King's words at the end of the play,". . . Laud we the Gods,
and let our crooked smokes climb to their nostrils,
from our blest altars"
and the first time, it happens in a context where we see Ireland under the domination of Britain and the Catholic Church. The point being that the quote continues,
"..let
a Roman and a British ensign wave
friendly together."
-- like flags over Dublin. In any case Cymbeline's defiance of Imperial Rome is not unlike Henry's defiance of spiritual Rome.
But that's only one possible angle. Reading Cymbeline now I don't think the story is so complicated (or even fast-paced). What is complicated is how to interpret it. Imogen goes on a long journey ... well, after seeing Helena's pilgrimage in AWTEW and Perdita's shipwreck in TWT (not to mention Miranda on her desert island) we might have been surprised at this point if Imogen had not gone on a journey. But the strange thing is how she, and the other characters, are all drawn to Milford Haven. It's like the journey to the extinct volcano in Close Encounters. Today Milford Haven is a huge port in Wales. Shakespeare and his audience would have known that Henrry Tudor landed there to win the throne from Richard III. So for a clandestine landing in England by Leonatus, Milford is a good choice. But I don't see why Caius Lucius, the Roman envoy, needs to get there. It's hardly the fastest route back to Rome.
(I used to think that Shakespeare's strange journeys are the result of his ignorance of geography --- that's what the text books say. But I'm doubting that now. He obviously knew Wales and Rome were in opposite directions.)
Anyway the move is to Wales. Morgan and Cadwal are Welsh names. But Polydore sounds Greek. Why? Is it because Roman household slaves were usually given Greek names? Is this to reinforce the fact that the whole population in Roman times was Celtic? That is how Loreena McKennitt interprets the play in the intro to her song, Cymbeline, "Shakespeare focusses in the time when the Romans were opressing the remnants of the Celts"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdDNd3...
(I'm not sure what to make of this song ... oh, well, it makes a change from the Bonny Swans!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLnKdN...
And yet in a sense there are no real Welsh people here. Morgan, Polydore and Cadwal are in disguise, and carry Romanised names. Among the rest, the real Roman is Iachimo, with a very modern Italian name, while to Leonatus Postumus, with his purely Roman name, Rome is a foreign land, a place of exile.
I expected the female readers here to be more interested in the treatment of Imogen. Isn't this the real "red flag topic" that Candy referred to?Of course, many Shakespearen heroines endure similar indignities, some fatally, but the virtuous Imogen is assaulted from every angle, from family, trying to push her into a wretched marriage, from Iachimo, slandering her, from Cloten, planning violence against her person, and from her husband, planning to have her murdered.
There was a great Imogen-worship in the 19th century. She became S's most beloved heroine. The effect is done through the poetry, which creates throughout the image of her as a creature in heaven or something immortal.
"an, angel, or if not,
an earthly paragon."
"if she be furnished with a mind so rare,
she is alone the Arabian bird"
"Cytherea, how bravely thou becomest the bed"
Even the song,
"Hark hark the lark at heaven's gate sings"
makes us think of Imogen's window as "heaven's gate."
Wife murder for adultery was common enough. Gesualdo's case is really interesting. An almost exact contemporary of S, he was, like S a creative artist (composer). He is often compared with Monteverdi, another almost exact contemporary. (For me, Monteverdi is the musical equivalent of Shakespeare.) But Gesualdo was an aristocrat, and had to take an aristocrat's revenge. (I wonder if these men felt compelled to do so, against their natural instincts.)
For the story, see,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlo_Ge...
Notice how, like Leonatus, the servants are used as helpers.
You can easily find many examples of Gesualdo's music (and of course Monteverdi's) on youtube.
Candy wrote: "I agree with Ray that, so far-as I am now well into Act 3..., Act 2 is quite enjoyable. Iachimo has really stolen the play at this point and he is a lively character. What was amazing to me was tha..."Candy, I second everything you said about Iachimo. One of the things that makes him so interesting is that he's not a villain through-and-through. He has good qualities as well. He recognizes Imogen's virtues and beauty immediately and holds her in high regard as a result. He must continue to pursue his wager because he can't afford to lose, but he seems ambivalent, even remorseful about what he must do to Imogen and Posthumus. Later, after Posthumus believes he has lost the wager and goes running off, Iachimo goes after him to keep him from doing harm to himself.
At the beginning of the play, Iachimo is a gifted individual, but supremely cynical. But in response primarily to meeting Imogen, he starts to shed some of that cynicism. How far that process will go, remains to be seen.
Mod
More goddess-like than wife-like, such assaults Pisano
Pisano gives us another clue to Imogen's popularity. I found her popularity in 19th century so interesting Martin, thanks. The poetry about her is really incredible and that is what surprised me about Iachimo's speech.
Ray, you make a great point abut Iachimo's potential for transformation. It is as if Imogen has touched his cynicism...I am glad you brought up that aspect of his character. Surely, he has the potential for a great learning experience with his game playing and deceit...and you're right. This character is worthwhile to watch in the remainder or climax of the play. Adds to the excitement. It will be interesting to see if he get's "just desserts" or becomes a kind of "hero-fool" for us.
a franklin's housewifeImogen says she wants to dress like a franklin's housewife. Franklin was...A medieval English freeholder of nonnoble birth holding extensive property. I just thought this was an interesting phrase "franklin's housewife" and had to look it up. (I was also wondering if it might mean a linen dress ha)
A goodly day not to keep house, with such
Whose roof's as low as ours! Stoop, boys; this gate
Instructs you how to adore the heavens and bows you
To a morning's holy office: the gates of monarchs
Are arch'd so high that giants may jet through
And keep their impious turbans on, without
Good morrow to the sun. Hail, thou fair heaven!
We house i' the rock, yet use thee not so hardly
As prouder livers do. Belarius
I was really interested in this cave and wondered if this might be like one of the ancient mounds in U.K. The instructions of how to look at the heavens is very interesting to me. Some of the mounds in England have celestial observational advantages.
I just started trying to find anything about observational caves or mounds in Wales...and Milford...and came across some web notes that seem to think there were "blue stones" in Wales and precisely in Milford and used for Stonehendge! I don't know how reputable this idea is but seems to be included in a conservative Britanica history society...
The Bluestones
About 2,000 BC, the first stone circle (which is now the inner circle), comprised of small bluestones, was set up, but abandoned before completion. The stones used in that first circle are believed to be from the Prescelly Mountains, located roughly 240 miles away, at the southwestern tip of Wales. The bluestones weigh up to 4 tons each and about 80 stones were used, in all. Given the distance they had to travel, this presented quite a transportation problem.
and...
One current theory speculates that the stones were dragged by roller and sledge from the inland Preseli Hills to the sea at Milford Haven. From there they were sailed along the Welsh south coast to Bristol, then up the Avon to a point near what is now Frome in Somerset. From there the stones were probably pulled overland to a place near what is now Warminster in Wiltshire and then floated down River Wylye to Salisbury, up the Salisbury part of the Avon river to West Amesbury, near Stonehenge.
http://www.britannia.com/history/h7.html
http://www.britannia.com/history/pres...
I hope I'm ntot getting too flaky here, but the significance of Milford might be a mystical reference. Even if the bluestones for Stonehedge weren't from Milford the idea stlll is "true" in a mythological sense. I can't help but think that this might be another indication that Shakespeare is enforcing magic and spiritual power to the Royalty. Maybe that the love between Imogen and Posthumous is magical...
I don't know yet how much of this might be supported and forgive me if I've gone a errible tangent.
Martin, thank you so much for pointing out the geography of Milford, Rome and that shakespeare might actually have known what he was doing. I am of the camp that he did...even if I can't see "the big picture" at thi momet. Looking around at ancient mounds kept me rather excited this morning and has given me a breath of fresh air to my continued reading of this charming play.
I am really loving this play and I am so glad to know that Imogen became a goddess-heroine to later generations.
The trip into Wales, is, I think, a trip into a world of magic. The late plays have a sense of certain dominant Gods: Mars, Venus, Diana in AWTEW, Apollo, and to a lesser extent Mercury/Hermes in TWT (in Alcestis -- I forgot to say in the earlier read --- Apollo is in disguise as a bondsman to Admetus, her husband. Herakles rescues her from death by wrestling with Hades (Death) at her tomb. He is therefore the thief who takes her from Death.) In Cymbeline, Jupiter is constantly mentioned. A symbol of Roman power perhaps. But also the Sun (Helios or Phoebus) is important. In Wales the stolen princes worship the sun.
Martin wrote: "I expected the female readers here to be more interested in the treatment of Imogen. Isn't this the real "red flag topic" that Candy referred to?..."Unlike today, Posthumus's revenge to Imogen's supposed infidelity was a conventional male response to the Elizabethans, no matter Imogen's innocence and Posthumus's deception by Iachimo. To not act would not have made an interesting plot. His passion for Imogen was for good and ill. Like Britain in the play, Posthumous is not a milquetoast but defends his honor. Nor is he of an evil nature but is of a moral character to which is the Gentlemen in the play's opening narrative assert. Their statement is proved by Posthumus's remorse for his unforgiving command for her murder even though her innocence hasn't been revealed to him. See: William Witherle Lawrence's Chapter V: The Wager in Cymbeline in "Shakespeare's Problem Comedies" (Macmillan, 1931).
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Loreena McKinnett's melodious and mesmerizing performance of 'Fear No More the Heat of the Sun' is in my opinion among the best of this dirge on YouTube, and its staging added to the enchating spectacle. I could listen to it many times.
Ray wrote: "...Iachimo. One of the things that makes him so interesting is that he's not a villain through-and-through...."Shakespeare makes some characters who demonstrate redeeming virtues even though their other actions hinted of some evil. Only the unrepentant Queen and Cloten die; the other imperfect characters are redeemed by their and others' charitable thoughts and deeds. Cymbeline, Posthumus, Iachimo, Imogen, Belarius, Cymbeline's sons in their victory display good-will toward the defeated and the erring.
Candy wrote: "a franklin's housewife Imogen says she wants to dress like a franklin's housewife. Franklin was...A medieval English freeholder......I just started trying to find anything about observational caves or mounds in Wales...and Milford...and came across some web notes that seem to think there were "blue stones" in Wales and precisely in Milford and used for Stonehendge! ..."
Your reference to the franklin brings to mind Chaucer's 'The Franklin's Tale' in "The Canterbury Tales". That story is also set, according to Wikipedia, on the rocky coast of Celtic Brittany, a place with Stonehenge-like "megaliths". Among the characters is a "magician-scholar", a creator of illusion to cause the rocks' disappearance. Chaucer authored a book on the medieval astrolabe, a navigational device to ascertain the positions of celestial bodies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fran...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cant...
If you can think of anyone who might like to join us...maybe a co-worker or someone you know online...please don't hesitate to invite folks to join us!
I am really looking forward to reading this play starting next week!
Candy