Christopher Paolini (INHERITANCE CYCLE series) discussion
DEBATE
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REligion, dont read if touchy
message 201:
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~♥Alyssa♥~
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Jan 05, 2010 03:52PM
I'm Mormon.
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Yeah, well, I'm just me and I have an opinion about just about everything. I say you should be educated and therefore sure of which direction you want to go.
Anna wrote: "Yeah, well, I'm just me and I have an opinion about just about everything. I say you should be educated and therefore sure of which direction you want to go."yeah but unfortunately not all countries see education over religion.
You misunderstand, Graziella. I meant she should do some research about her choices in keeping with the topic of this conversation. I wasn't aware that 'countries' were involved.
I think Anna just means that she should investigate other churches and be fully informed when she makes her choice.
Anna wrote: "You misunderstand, Graziella. I meant she should do some research about her choices in keeping with the topic of this conversation. I wasn't aware that 'countries' were involved."opps sorry then...haha....@_@ just never mind i said anything then.
No worries. I have no problem explaining if something is misunderstood. Just ask.
I'm mormon as you've probably already guessed.
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there have only been two mormons that i can remevr so far.....me and Alyssa
Well, Catholics and Mormons are also Christians, just more specific. I know Christians that don't belong to one church.
haha Catholics and Mormons are also believe in Jesus, so you're not alone ;D
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"They have no genuine faith. Faith without deeds is dead, and deeds without God's authority are worthless." I think that statement is being very judgmental yourself. Never try to second guess what other do or how others believe. In religion, there can be no right or wrong, there only 'is'. The 'how' or the 'why' must be left to each individual's interpretation of God's will.
i'm sorry, what exactly are we debating?
Right and wrong are in the eyes of the beholder.
This is written by a woman born and raised in Egypt and later in GazaCruel and Usual Punishment: The Terrifying Global Implications of Islamic Law
by Nonie Darwish
In the Muslim faith, a Muslim man can marry a child as young as 1 year old and have sexual intimacy with this child, consummating the marriage by 9.
A dowry is given to the family in exchange for the girl (who becomes his slave.)
Even though a woman is abused she can not obtain a divorce.
To prove rape, the woman must have (4) male witnesses.
Often, after a woman has been raped, she is returned to her family and the family must return the dowry. The family has the right to execute her (an honor killing) to restore the honor of the family.
Often, after a woman has been raped, she is returned to her family and the family must return the dowry. The family has the right to execute her (an honor killing) to restore the honor of the family.
Husbands can beat their wives 'at will' and do not have to say why,
The husband is permitted to have (4 wives) and a temporary wife for an hour (prostitute) at his discretion.
Shariah law controls the private as well as the public life of the woman.
In the West, Muslim men are starting to demand Shariah Law so the wife can not obtain a divorce and he can have full and complete control of her. It is alarming how many of our sisters and daughters attending American Universities are marrying Muslim men and submitting themselves and their children to Shariah law.
Author and lecturer Nonie Darwish says the goal of radical Islamists is to impose Shariah law on the world. She recently authored the book, Cruel and Usual Punishment: The Terrifying Global Implications of Islamic Law.
Darwish was born in Cairo and spent her childhood in Egypt and Gaza before immigrating to America in 1978, when she was eight years old. Her father died while leading covert attacks on Israel. He was a high-ranking Egyptian military officer.
When he died, he was considered a "shahid," a martyr for jihad. His posthumous status earned Nonie and her family an elevated position in Muslim society.
But Darwish developed a skeptical eye at an early age. She questioned her Muslim culture and upbringing. She converted to Christianity after hearing a Christian preacher on television.
In her latest book, Darwish warns about creeping sharia law - what it is, what it means, and how it is manifested.
She says radical Islamists are working to impose sharia on the world. If that happens, Western civilization will be destroyed. Westerners generally assume all religions encourage a respect for the dignity of each individual. Islamic law (Sharia) teaches that non-Muslims should be subjugated or killed.
Peace and prosperity for one's children is not as important as assuring that Islamic law rules everywhere in the world.
While Westerners think that all religions encourage some form of the golden rule, Sharia teaches two systems - one for Muslims and another for non-Muslims. Building on tribal practices of the seventh century, Sharia wants to subjugate others.
While Westerners tend to think in terms of religious people developing a personal understanding of and relationship with God, Sharia advocates executing people who ask difficult questions that could be interpreted as criticism.
It's hard to imagine, that in this day and age, Islamic scholars agree that those who criticize Islam or choose to stop being Muslim should be executed. Sadly, while talk of an Islamic reformation is common in the West, such murmurings in the Middle East are silenced through intimidation.
In twenty years there will be enough Muslim voters in the U.S. to elect the President! Rest assured they will do so... You can look at how they have taken over several towns in the USA . Dearborn Mich. is one... there are others...
I think everyone in the U.S. should be required to read this, but with the ACLU, there is no way this will be widely publicized, unless each of us sends it on!
It is too bad that so many accept Muslims as peaceful.. Some may be, but they have an army that is willing to shed blood in the name of Islam. While America is getting rid of Christianity from all public sites and erasing God from the lives of children, the Muslims are planning a great jihad on America.
...I'm not going to comment quite yet...
I only skimmed over it and it sounds....brutal
Yes, it's horrifying and sick and awful. But whoever wrote that is verrrrryyyyy judgemental, prejudiced, and anti-Muslim. One of those "All-Muslims-are-terrorists" people, and I don't really like that... It may be true, but I'm sure it's presented in the worst light possible.
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Tara wrote: "This ^ We're studying Islam right now, and this "It is too bad that so many accept Muslims as peaceful" is not necessarily true. In fact, it's exactly the opposite. Mind you, we just started, so we..."Yes, we just studied Norhtern Africa and now we're on Southeast Asia, and there's a LOT of untrue prejudice about Islam. "Oh yeah, violence and terrorism are just part of their religion." Not true at all. Those are radicalists, people who are Muslim that do bad things but don't represent their religion.
Anna wrote: "http://www.amazon.com/Cruel-Usual-Pun..."That's disgusting. I mean, not what it teaches about Islam, but that people feel the need to insult religions like this. People should be allowed to practice their religion without being harrassed and degraded. Seriously, people.
As far as that book is concerned. We're not insulting the religion, it's the way women are treated because of real laws within the religion.
I suppose, but I still find it a bit judgemental. Well, a lot judgemental. I know I'd be upset - well, furios - if someone wrote a book like that about my religion. I mean, how would you feel if somebody dedicated a whole book solely to insulting and destroying what you believe?
So tell me. In order to avoid judging anyone, You would allow such crimes to continue?By the way, humans are always judging something. Any kind of comparison is a form of judging. I go back to my earlier statement. Right and wrong cannot be attached to a religion, and if any religion has written laws that make it manly to rape a nine year old girl, then those laws need to be brought into the light of day and changed. Note, I said nothing at all about the religion.
I suppose so, but I think it's not our place to dub their standards a "Crime" (even though I do agree). I'm not defending what they do; I'm not a Muslime and I don't know enough anyway. It just personally bugs me when people exaggerate the "worst" parts of any religion. However, this may not be exaggerated. I simply do not know enough. I just feel a little uneasy that people are so critical of any religion. And you're right, that is just wrong and should be changed, but we have no right to force them to do it. Really, I'm conflicted about this.
If a religion allows and supports that kind of thing then to me it speaks volumes about what kind of religion it is.
I think if the older generation would allow islamic beliefs to modernize like catholic/Christians..(don't know how much they modernized but i do know somethings have changed). Then maybe ...it would be better. But the older generation doesn't like change they like how they were taught previously, that women are nothing but a possession. Which is sad...
Katie wrote: "John wrote: "whose the other non religious person?"Anna, I believe.
Good for you.
My beliefs are mine. And your beliefs are your. That you have beliefs that you are comfortable with is good for you. I will not try to change your mind, though I would be happy to debate the issue if you want.
Anna wrote: "This is written by a woman born and raised in Egypt and later in GazaCruel and Usual Punishment: The Terrifying Global Implications of Islamic Law
by Nonie Darwish
In the Muslim faith, a Musl..."
I don't think it's true, I have some friends that Muslim and I can tell that those writing is not true. Until now none of my friends are forced to married or doing the other thing that written in that article.
I agree with ~♥Alyssa♥~
'"Oh yeah, violence and terrorism are just part of their religion." Not true at all. Those are radicalists, people who are Muslim that do bad things but don't represent their religion.'
Yes, I don't like that prejudice. In my Social Studies or whatever class the other day we had this lady who had lived in India and her daughter come in to talk to us. She wore one of those all black dress things, with the hood and veil, so we could only see her eyes, that Muslim women wear. She asked us to write down what we had first thought when we saw her dressed like that. It was astounding how many people wrote "freaked out" or "scared," because we associate "Muslim" with "terrorist."
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I've never read the book, so I can't say how much is true, not for sure, but it wasn't about American Muslims.
John wrote: "muslims can have arranged marriages, the women doesnt get a choice in it, if they refuse, they get killed my their parents, men can have as many as seven wive also."That's not true. Muslims do not believe in forcing a woman to marry someone against their will. Some Muslim families do practice arranged marriages, but even in these cases, if the woman doesn't want to go through the marriage, they can't force her to.
Also, some more conservative Muslims (generally ones in heavily Islamic countries) condone having four wives, not seven. (Mormons once accepted having seven wives, but I'm under the understanding that they don't do that anymore...if any of the Mormons on this thread feel like saying if I'm right or not, let me know...I'm sure you know your religion better than I do ;)) In the West, the vast majority of Muslims support monogamous marriages.
Ugh!!!! No offense meant to you, Rachel, but I HATE the whole Mormon/polygamy thing. Or worse, the Mormon=ploygamy thing. I will explain:Once, nearly 150 years ago, many Mormons practiced polygamy, but it wasn't jsut Mormons. Then the church decided polygamy was not a good thing for the current times, so they banned it, about when the government did. Then some Mormons who wanted to keep practicing polygamy broke away, and were excommunicated, so were no longer part of the church. There are still polygamous sects in America that were Mormon many, many years ago but now are completely seperate. Sorry, that assumption just bugs me because there's some nearby polygamous communities where I live, so lots of kids assume that all Mormons are polygamists. I hate when people say "How many moms do you have?" because we do not practice polygamy.
I know Mormons don't practice polygamy any more. The only reason I brought it up is because I think that John was confusing that with four wives in Islam. I've read that some past Mormons had had more than seven wives, but for some reason, seven seems to be the number that comes up most. I know that the sects that still practice polygamy are separate from the mainstream LDS church. :D
Lol, yeah. Seven is just that sorta number I guess. And thanks! Yeah, I understand. :)
You have to admit though, that polygamy is the one thing the Mormon Church is famous for, whether they do it now or not. And as for Muslims practicing polygamy or forced marriages or not; that isn't the issue - it the law of the religion. Apparently, Muslim law says it's legal.
Muslim law does not allow for forced marriages, although it does allow polygamy.
