Rating a book on its merits

[Rip]

The only less than good/great reviews I've ever seen on this book come from reviewers who are unhappy with its "religious" aspects. In other words, the book does not agree with their religious beliefs. Is this a criteria for judging or rating a book? Or should a reviewer stick to discussing the actual merits, or lack thereof, of the book itself? It seems to me it's a judgment of the author's beliefs...assuming a writer always presents their own beliefs in what they write. Personally I don't think it's a fair review that reviews "belief." Rather like an Ayatolla calling for the death of Rushdie for his Satanic Verses. Not as extreme, of course. Any opinions?

[Infanta]

I have an opinion. I've been noting the reviews of The Third Jesus by Deepak Chopra on amazon. Most review the book, talk about what they like or don't like about the writing or the ideas, but in general have actually read it. But all, and I mean all, the one star "reviews" are by people who believe their religion is being attacked, and attack back. Their reviews have nothing whatsoever to do with the book itself. It's a "good" book if it agrees with their beliefs, a "bad" book if it doesn't. Leni Riefenstahl made a movie called Triumph of the Will about Hitler. Was it a bad film because of its subject, or a good film because it is, in fact, an incredible documentary? Is an artist still an artist if their "art" promotes what some (most in the case of Hitler) do not agree with? I think I have to say Leni was an artist. I would also say she used her talents for what most of us would decry, but that doesn't mean The Triumph of the Will isn't a work of tremendous skill and vision. So. Is The Secret Magdalene a "bad" book, worth only two stars, because it protrays Jesus Christ as divine, but no more divine than all men and women, also portraying the Divinity in All as his message? I think not. It's a good, if not great book, for all sorts of reasons that have nothing to do with belief. Thanks for giving me a soapbox, Rip.

[Hilly]

New here. Just checking out the books I'm adding and saw this. What a great beginning to a conversation. I'm with both of you. Love some books about things I don't love, didn't like some books about things I love. If something is done well, it should be judged for that. If it's not to your moral taste or religious taste, then perhaps best not to review it at all, or if so, then to say flat out something like I didn't like this book because it made me uncomfortable. I didn't like the "message." Or something like that. That's honest and gives readers a chance to judge your opinions properly.

I once saw a play about a serial killer called Killing for Company. A true story and the killer himself, Dennis Neilson, was locked away for life for his ugly crimes. He was the single voice speaking from his cell which became his apartment where he committed his crimes and then became his cell again. I hated his crimes, but the play was so well constructed and the killer so well thought out, it made me pause and really think about how a man could do the things he did and how he saw the world. In the end, I pitied him and his victims. So I would rate this play very highly (just as I do The Secret Magdalene, which I loved for its prose and for stretching my mind) for its ability to make me think about a person's actions that I hope could never be mine, and learn and stand in someone's else shoes. Good conversation, folks. I will come back and see if there's more.

[Kerry]

Interesting topic. It's hard to like something when it goes against your idea of the world. I can understand that. It's especially hard when we're talking about religious beliefs which are either fed you with your mother's milk, or come because of some strong event in your life, emotional or otherwise. People feel lost. Being found is a great relief however it's presented: Christian, Muslim, Scientologist, whatever. When we believe something, we become invested in it. It becomes part of who we think we are. To have that belief challenged is scary, it challenges not only our beliefs but also who we think we are, so we either shut down and refuse to listen, or we lash back in frightened anger. All this means I can understand why someone would not like a book if it challenged their belief in reality or god or whatever. But at the same time, I agree that this is not a good basis for a review of a book (or movie, or play, or anything at all). "I don't like it because I don't agree with it" is an honest statement. But is it a review? No.

[Elena]

You all are so careful and kind. I admire that. I wish I could be careful. Can't though. Not in my nature. But kind, I'm working on kind. So here's my not very careful opinion. If you read a book that offends your beliefs, don't review it. Just throw it away or burn it like true believers like to do, but don't write a review as if you've considered it carefully. I've seen the Deepak Chopra "reviews" too. Fundie Christians troll amazon, then pounce on a book they haven't even read, to give it one-star. They use their review to thump their Bible. Makes me mad. As for this book, The Secret Magdalene, it's getting lumped under Christian literature and it has nothing to do with Christianity. I think it's brilliant and not because I am for or against its ideas. For the book itself. Maybe I ought to write a review? I think I will. Elena the Uncareful

[Edward]

I've just finished reading this book, and I loved it. I don't have any fixed belief system, so maybe that helped, but I can see that it would upset evangelical Christian types who would see it as inspired by the devil. I thought it was a good read and quite plausible. I would mention also that I read The Virgin and The Priest by Mark Gibbs last week, and that is undoubtedly going to be the most hated book of the century.

[Rip]

Ok. I can see I'm not the only one who thinks a "review" that really consists of someone's religious bias is no review at all. If those who held unquestioned unexamined beliefs ever actually had the slightest doubt, that doubt could take them places they never dreamed of. I feel sorry for "true believers" of any kind. They're trapped in the ideas of other people who told them they were hearing the word of some god and they bought it. Some god could even mean Ron Hubbard who invented Scientology. There's a fascinating book called Doubt by Jennifer Hecht that makes a compelling and convincing case for the idea that all human insight and growth (of all kinds) comes from doubting accepted dogma (off all sorts.)

Edward! I'm off to have a look at The Virgin and the Priest. If everyone hates it, it must say something.

[Edward]

Rip,

If you read The Virgin and The Priest, let me know what you think. I'd love to discuss this book with someone or hear what they think of it. Where I work that would be a non-starter.

[Kerry]

I just had a look at the Tom Cruise book on amazon. Out of all the reviews few are really reviews at all. I have no idea if it's a good bio or it isn't. What I came away with is how fanatical scientologists are, that they watch every "review" for a chance to click that it's bad if it doesn't agree with scientology or good if it does. They insult people, and generally make sad nuisances of themselves. The same goes for any book that swims against the stream of religious some belief or another. As for this book, actually I'm surprised it hasn't been hit harder by Christian fundies who think not calling Jesus God Incarnate is a gross error of understanding. The Secret Magdalene has made some interesting cross-overs judging from some of the things I've read. There are just those deluded few who remain stuck with their limiting unenlightened TRUE BELIEFS no matter how well put an argument or how well written a story or how profoundly clear...as this one is.

[Amanda]

I read many reviews where the reader/reviewer gives the book a bad review only because it offends their moral or religious sensibilities. It doesn't matter if the book is well-written, an interesting story, something that stretches the imagination - if it is critical of their religion or ideas of what is right, they say it is a bad book.
It's a free country (I hope) and people are allowed to like or dislike a book,whatever their reasons. Still, reading those reviews gets on my nerves. If you don't like a book, don't read it. If the language or themes bother you, put the book away and move on, but don't say that the book is bad.
I read a review of Phillip Pullman's Lyra trilogy, where one reviewer said they thought the first book was "stupid and boaring." (their spelling not mine) Okay - that's their opinion, and although I disagree, the review was valid. Another review said the equivalent of, "this book is against Christianity and my church basically banned it," and here's the kicker, THEY HADN'T EVEN READ THE BOOK. How can you give a book a bad review if you haven't read it?

[Edward]

I read "Rosslyn Revealed" recently - a book about Rossyln Chapel in Scotland which is featured in the Da Vinci Code. It was an excellent read, so I gave it a positive review on amazon. However, a previous reviewer had slammed the book because it stated that Rosslyn was not an orthodox Catholic chapel. Now, it is obvious to a blind man that Rosslyn Chapel is covered with Masonic symbolism to say the least, so the reviewer's comments were baffling.

Afterwards, the author of Rosslyn Revealed contacted me to tell me that this particular reviewer had released his own book refuting the claims of Rosslyn Revealed and other books and that his book was financed by the Roman Catholic Church. Apparently they have a disinformation department which is tasked with undermining anything that would negate its own absurd dogma and expose its dubious history. It is remarkable that negative reviews have not been posted for The Virgin and The Priest yet. It must be still under their radar.....

[Infanta]

Because of the stigma associated with the name "Inquisition," the Church changed the title of its branch devoted to rooting out heresy to the Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office. In other words, the Inquisition is alive and well along with all its official duties. Heresy is an interesting word. It's root comes from the idea of free thinking.

[Nome]

People are always "reviewing" books based on their own beliefs about things. That's why being a professional reviewer is so hard. Is the book well written? Is the storyline compelling? Does it flow from one idea to another and one plot point to another? People hardly ever talk about that. Espcially in a book that challenges their ideas. I would answer yes to above questions about this book. And yes it challenges accepted ideas people have come to think are actual truths. As if anyone knew a truth, or as if there were any. Facts, yes. But truth? Anyway, this is a beautiful book, an important book, but there are going to be people who don't care about that. All they care about is if they agree with it. A fundamental believer isn't going to agree. So they'll call it a "bad book." They're the ones who miss out.

[Paintedonclouds]

I say fie to those who "review" behind their entrenched belief of what is "true." Virtually everyone of them was taught their truths from others. Only way to feel out the "truth" is on your own and it can be lonely. This book was the author's way. That it resonated for me is true. But I read it for all its other qualites: gorgeous writing, a perfect feel for the times, and living breathing characters telling us a story from an angle so interesting and so absorbing, only the ostrich, poor ostrich, could miss it.

[Joan]

Loved what all you people have to say. Good thinking. And such a good book. The person who thought it read as if a teenager wrote it makes me laugh outloud. Only if the teenager was a genius. Silly review.

[Ashley]

Totally agree with Joan. Because it was written in first person, and because Mariamne began young (which the author says is in her "child's voice"), half way through Mariamne was no child, and by the end she was a full brilliant grown woman with a broken heart. My best guess is the reviewer didn't get that far.

And yes, reviews that are based on a person's religious beliefs are no reviews at all, unless they are honest about that, and explain what their problem is.

[J.d.]

Come late to the table, I see. But this is an interesting topic for me. This book has such profound meaning seemingly based on a certain religion that it gets mixed up with beliefs and ideas about the world it has nothing really to do with. I imagine it often gets bought, if not read, by people who expect to find what they've been taught, and when they don't, they don't like the book. I've seen really bad books get rave reviews because somehow people believe the "teaching" in it. (Titles upon request.) These same really terrible books (and I'm talking in terms of writing, character development, story arc, structure, pacing, all the things that makes for a good novel) have nothing going for them at all except a slavish group of people who think they are reading some kind of "truth." I wonder if this book often gets caught up in that kind of unthinking nonliterary backwater. If so, what a terrible shame. Reading what's been written here, I went to The Secret Magdalene's amazon.com site. I was surprised to find only a little of that kind of thing going on. Then I went to the site of one of the appalling "novels" I'm talking about and found the "reviews" to either a 5 for no other reason than the writer was speaking the "truth" or a 1 for the simple reason that the book had killed a tree. And lots of very entertaining arguments back and forth.

[Boreal Elizabeth]

i don't know
i read the book
liked it a lot at the time-as i recall it was pretty gorgeous prose, poetic
strong female characters which is always a plus with me
it hasn't really stayed with me though
i can see how a believer would take offense to the jesus story being reinterpreted
i mean the bible is their book
it's like the gone with the wind thing
and i know i held my breath on the lotr movies
plus there is the added emotionalism of spiritual belief-so people feel strongly
a lot of the disbelieving comments above also sound full of emotionalism

also there were elements that are definitely anti biblical
i thought jesus still came off as a supreme being
just maeve (or was that daughter of the shinning isle) had a intimate knowledge of his manhood
haha
the son of god was man on earth
so it makes sense that he's more earthy to her
i'd like to reread the barren tree passage
it's definitely a different interpretation than the biblical
official reviews have standards
online reviews have looser standards so i'm not so concerned that believers are calling out the harlot so to speak
it's a public forum-what the heck
plus how are you going to stop them
it they want to spend their time chasing pagan books around to condemn who cares?

[J.d.]

Interesting, Elizabeth. You have a point. Who really cares? All these sites are public forums and people can say what they like, to the degree the site allows. But I think you have a book written by, um, Cunningham confused, or at least mingled with, this one by Longfellow. I haven't read Cunningham's book but there is no barren tree passage in Longfellow's. On the other hand there was gorgeous prose and poetry and a strong Mariamne, not Mauve.

[Lucinda]

First off, I did like the story. Yes, I thought Mariamne sounded like a teenager throughout the whole story, as there was not a profound difference in character from beginning to end. Perhaps immature would be more appropriate. Conseidering all that she endured in the story, I expected more of a change, that is my reasoning. I also felt several of the other main characters were flat and undeveloped. That upsets most other reviewers as it attacks a book they think of so highly. The story is compelling, although various subplots are resolved much too conveniently for my taste. The prose is not poetic and in some parts the writing is downright corny. Most people aren't phased by that (look how wildly popular Dan Brown is), and if you would like to read a compelling story that stretches the mind with profound ideas, then I recommend it, and I would not recommend it to the fundamental Christian unless they would really like to open their mind to new ideas.

[Boreal Elizabeth]

jd i think you are right!
i read about 4-5 "biblical times" books around the same time period including a couple by cunningham and another female author and one about david's life
i may indeed have gotten these books mingled as magdalene or mary was in the title of several
and the cover had an estatic mary figure on the front
the cunningham books were in a series and started off with the magdalene character called maeve only to be called mary magdalene in the 2nd or 3rd book
the ones i recall were the passion of the magdalene or the magdalene's passion and daughter of the shinnig isles
i thought secret magdalene was one of that lot
now i'm going to have to find a copy and see if i've read it!
is it any good? lol

[J.d.]

Fascinating, Lucinda. People's tastes always interest me. What is so wonderful to one person is not to another. To my ear, the writing of The Secret Magdalene is pure prose poetry and the development of each character is as satisfying as any novel I've ever read. My opinion is shared by my friends. But not by you. Does it matter? Not a jot. Yet at the same time you think the story is "profound," which it is. I think of all those who think Thomas Pynchon is a fabulous read. I'd rather empty the garbage. Or that The Catcher in the Rye is one of America's greatest books. I'd rather empty my neighbor's garbage. Harry Potter makes me heave. I have never once liked Hemingway, so stopped trying to read him. And yet Dorothy Parker almost had an orgasm in her first New Yorker review. I really don't like James Joyce and he is a giant. But I agree with the multitudes who adore Gone With The Wind and anything written by either Mark Twain or Vladimir Nabokov. (For example. Don't mind me, I'm full of them.)

And you, Elizabeth. It sounds like you read a whole slew of somewhat similar fiction. I do that now and again and eventually can't remember my nose from my ear.

Is it any good? My humble opinion is all I have...YES!