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There Is No Antimemetics Division
Group Reads Discussions 2026
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"There is No Antimemetics Division" Discuss Everything *Spoilers*
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1. The world has similarities to Charles Stross’ Laundry Files and Ben Aaronovitch’s Rivers of London in that it features a covert government organisation battling supernatural forces. It is wilder and crazier than either, making for an exhilarating ride but also perhaps straying too far from a coherent narrative.2. The characters are not particularly deeply explored, or indeed go through much development. They really exist to enable the world building to happen around them.
3. Like most genuinely interesting speculative fiction, this works best on an allegorical level. This is a book for internet/social media/AI age, playing with the concept of the on line propgation of ideas, opinions, and misinformation. Narratively i did have concerns that it takes a step too far to the point of incomprehensibility.
4. What genre is it? Horror, SF, fantasy? Ive described it as speculative fiction as it doesnt fit easily into any of those buckets. It is perhaps closest to the darkness of China Mieville and the “New Weird”
Overall, I liked this a lot. It was weird in a way that I tend to enjoy. It reminded me a little bit of Annihilation by Jeff Vandermeer - it's taking place in our world, but there is a layer of weirdness that you and the characters have to navigate and figure out.I do agree with Pete that the characters are pretty flat - which I normally don't enjoy, but I think it worked here. The world and the Unknowns were the most interesting parts. I was still a bit sad that so many of the characters died, though by the end, their deaths made a sort of sense.
To me, along with the parallels with our current world of the spread of poisonous ideas and misinformation, the story also spoke to humanity making the same mistakes over and over and not learning from the past. Or that sometimes as the past become less connected to the present (there aren't living people who experienced and remember it), it can be easy for some people to start thinking that it didn't happen or fall prey to old ideas that were ruinous or harmful.
The only thing that didn't quite work for me was the ending, though I didn't dislike it. I just didn't quite buy that people were able to exist again after being taken over by U-3125 for such long time. They do point out that a lot of people disappeared, but it seemed implausible to me that the world returned to somewhat normal. I would have liked for it to end with Marie Quinn ascending and us not knowing what comes after (but maybe keep the last little bit of the epilogue with the cryptomorpha gigantes).
I'm about 60% through (re-read, so I'm not worried about spoilers), but I'm finding myself completely disagreeing about the flat characters. I liked the characters on my first readthrough, especially Marie and Adam, and specifically mentioned that in my review (though I didn't name them, to prevent spoiling anyone) but this time, listening to the audiobook, when she forgot him, and he was trying to bring her back... it just struck me as such a powerful moment. I definitely can see why anyone would feel like the characters are dull - in a way they are, and almost have to be to deal with the uncanny, to constantly be battling their own memories and minds being outside of their control. To me, that requires a calm confidence and assurance in who one is deep down. But I really love the dynamic between M&A, because what we DON'T see, what is only hinted at, is the normality that he brings her, and that kind of quiet reliance and love just really gets me. I love a subtle character and characterization that doesn't need to be over the top or loud or explicit to make the point of who someone is. So maybe I'll be alone in this, but I think the characters were exactly who they needed to be.
First time posterI thought the book was fantastic. I had passed over it a couple times after reading the summary thinking it wouldn’t interest me but I was hooked. It put me in mind of Annihilation by Jeff Vandermeer. An existential and overwhelming change to reality and existence but with minimal explanation of the what, how, or why? We want to know more about the phenomena but it’s not something that can be understood. We can only see the hints of it. The characters do seem flat but not lifeless or wooden. I think fleshing them would have pulled us away from the mystery and the underlying dread. It reads almost like a report which seems appropriate for the “Groundhog Day” effect the author was facing his characters with. The use of redaction in some of the chapters, definitely emphasized the situation sitting beyond our reality. Well worth the time!
I've finished a few days ago already, so it's about time I contributed to this thread. I really enjoyed the novel, more than I reasonably expected considering that some of the reviews were less than happy. Plus I don't usually respond well to hype. But the more I think about it, the more I admire what this novel achieves.
I might start with a genre war: despite the sci-fi hints given by the title and blurb, this turns out to be more of a horror story of the cosmic variety. There are increasingly obvious Lovecraftian references, and even some rather blatant Easter eggs (e.g. the WWII Unthinkables). And while H.P. and the stories he inspired usually give only hints of interdimensional horror, this might be the most openly apocalyptic one I've read yet, going for the actual end of the world.
I appreciated the episodic structure, which allows for fresh points of view and even timeframes. The novel changes skin several times, yet a high narrative consistency is maintained throughout: a passing mention in an early chapter becomes a full flashback later on, &c. I have a soft spot for non-linear storytelling, and the author pulled it off brilliantly here, revealing pieces of backstory and character development out of sequence. I also feel something else is going on, which we've seen elsewhere in recent fiction: certain aspects of the story are presented as if compressed, relying on the reader's familiarity with the conventions and history of literature (e.g. This Is How You Lose the Time War, which took a hint from Calvino and zapped through different scenarios at warp speed; my favourite metaphor for this is the streaming platform). I don't think the characters are flat, although they are mostly shown through their actions: what they do, and especially what they're ready to sacrifice, says a a lot about them. The narrative might be non-linear, but the emotional arc is loud and clear. And I love that Marion and Adam are not teenagers, or even young, but a mature couple with shared history (their first meeting is, well, horrific, but also sweet).
Alistair, I completely agree, particularly about Marie and Adam. The sacrifice aspect you mention really spoke strongly to me as well.
As Pete and Kaia argued, the antimemetic concept can be read as a metaphor for a wide range of issues that I would put under the the general umbrella of post-truth: the willful erasure of memory and remembrance, history and facts. Yet it lands in a very personal spot for me at this point of my life: I've just had a truly horrible year at work (by which I mean, school year), and... ask me whether I'd like to take an amnestic pill and forget all about it; or feed the last ten months of my life wholesale to the invisible monster following me around (that would be SCP-4987), who loves nothing more than eating my memories away.
Oh and I might mention that I really appreciated the (apparently self?) editing and the fact that the novel is under 300 pp. rather than over 500, which seems a common blight in speculative fiction nowadays (looking at you, James S.A. Corey. But even the best, such as Ann Leckie, seem to be affected). I mean I love a long novel such as The Spear Cuts Through Water as much as anyone, but that novel has every quality in overdrive, while the current practice of publishing on a page count and bloat everything up grates me more than an actual cheese grater.
michael wrote: "First time posterI thought the book was fantastic. I had passed over it a couple times after reading the summary thinking it wouldn’t interest me but I was hooked."
Hi Michael and welcome.
As I was saying, the same thing happened to me. But from a quick look at your shelf you seem to go hard on Cthulhu, so this book is just for you after all.
Becky, I agree on the normality and, really, the sweetness of Adam and Marion's relationship.
I also agree on another point you mention: the effectiveness of elision and of things left unsaid. I'm repeating myself, but the unspoken connections between chapters were one of the most satisfying aspect of the novel.
It was irritating the way this book looked on my Kindle. My Kindle also hung up a couple of times, which never happens. All the marked-out sections were also irritating. Generally, it was a fun story but kind of empty. Kind of hard to follow. I'm sounding negative. I read it quickly so it's not like it was boring. It would be nice if it were filled in a little more and not so unclear.
I think this novel, more than most, demands an active role from the reader, who must piece together the chronology and also connect the dots of what's implicit. For some readers that's engaging.
Alistair wrote: "I think this novel, more than most, demands an active role from the reader, who must piece together the chronology and also connect the dots of what's implicit. For some readers that's engaging."
I have to agree. Usually I find it annoying when authors leave too much to connect because I feel like it leaves their point too open. However, I actually thought it worked well here since the whole book is about forgetting and the characters having to piece things back together all the time.
Wow I loved it. This is an example of why I come here. When this book was nominated, it was the first I had ever heard of it.
Bobby wrote: "It was irritating the way this book looked on my Kindle. My Kindle also hung up a couple of times, which never happens. All the marked-out sections were also irritating. Generally, it was a fun sto..."What Kindle version do you have? I read this on my Kindle the first time, and it was completely fine, but I have the Paperwhite 11th gen.
Regarding the rest of your comment, I can definitely understand not liking the redactions and omissions from the story, but those things are basically the point. We're not really supposed to have all of the info in those documents, or the characters' memories. The Antimemetics Division deals with entities and ideas that eat or destroy or don't allow memories or documentation records. I can't think of another way to effectively show that, or structure the story. It sounds like this one just didn't work for you. Not every book is for every person. :)
Good point: the structure is consistent with the topic.On a partial tangent, what do y'all think of the grimness?
It's one thing I find difficult to explain, even once you've accepted that the plot is heading more or less straightforwardly for the literal apocalypse.
There's a humorous aspect to some of the episodes, which isn't a leap given the absurdity in which the Antimemetics Division daily finds itself; to the point that some of the deaths appear cartoonish.
But then eveybody dies, which, again, is consistent with the premise. Yet much of that is so sad. The entire Foundation is wiped clean overnight. Marion basically disintegrates. Is all of that necessary for the story?
Sorry, Wayne and Becky posted while I was writing. I wasn't ignoring them, even though that's how it looks.I also read on my kindle without problems, redactions included (which, again, I thought were fun. Except for "Ará Orún"; that was downright scary). My kindle is either from 2012 or 13; which generation would that be?
No worries Alistair, I didn't think you were ignoring anyone. :) According to Wikipedia, if your Kindle is from 2012, that's 5th gen, and it's either the Kindle 5 which would still have the nav buttons on the bottom, or the 1st Kindle Paperwhite, which would be entirely touchscreen, with a front light.
If it's 2013, then it's likely the 2nd Paperwhite, which is the only 6th gen kindle.
Back on topic - I liked the grimness of the book. It makes it feel dire and inevitable. On a deeper level, even without the apocalyptic threat from the big baddie, this book is terrifying to me. Both of my grandfathers suffered from dementia, and the concept of losing one's memories and sense of self is unnerving and horrifying to me. The way that this book plays on that and with it, and manipulates and uses it to win a battle one can never even know that they are fighting, I thought was brilliant.
That being said, I also really enjoyed the levity that came through sometimes. The multiple first days theme really works for me, and I enjoyed it a lot. If you get a second first day, you're doing something right. :P I thought it was a perfect mix.
Becky wrote: "Bobby wrote: "It was irritating the way this book looked on my Kindle. My Kindle also hung up a couple of times, which never happens. All the marked-out sections were also irritating. Generally, it..."My Kindle Paperwhite is 2018 version I think. Got it in 2020. When I flipped pages the blacked out places flashed words for a split second. Then there was something that happened twice between two chapters. The first time I put it in airplane mode to get rid of Wifi. I have had a big download hang the device before. But then it hung again on a later chapter and I had to restart the device. Maybe it was still hosed up from whatever it was downloading the first time. I read the whole book and gave it four stars. I was just feeling cranky at the end. I didn't really like when they sent her husband away. It was kind of downhill after that. But it probably has as much to do with me as a reader as anything.
Yeah, the way memory is so easily altered or completely destroyed is probably the scariest aspect of the book. Reading it reminded me of Terror Management Theory from psychology and the notion of humans seeking symbolic immortality, usually in the memory of others/in their kids ect to subdue existential anxiety. It felt so relevant with this book, cos it’s terrifying the way people are just erased from existing so abruptly, especially in the minds of those who once held them to some importance.
Particularly poignant for me was when Marie and the researcher who’s-name-I-can’t-remember (Ha! Forgot to take my mnestics, sorry) went to see the structure with the grave markings and how easily that woman’s whole involvement was just completely wiped out… she’s wasn’t even a major character but it felt so uncomfortable the way everything just moved on so easily.
That would be trainee field agent Dr Eli Moreno. And yes, the way she's wiped clean, even from memory, a few pages after coming onstage and six months into the job, is very unsettling. You're also misremembering Marion's given name. ;-)
Off topic, but speaking of misremembering, it should be a 2nd gen Paperwhite. It's been heavily used, basically everyday, for 13 years.
Bobby, there are actual words underneath? That would be interesting. But more probably it's just the e-reader showing a ghost of the previous page for an instant.
So I wanted an excuse to re-read the novel. File it under
Even cursory attempts in that direction have yielded interesting results: the amount of hints scattered through the text is hilarious.
So I've got hold of the 2025 edition; I might have been the only one to read the 2020 version. And yes, there are differences. The novel is basically the same, but chapters are organised in three rather than two parts and everything and everybody has been renamed.
Judging from the first chapter alone ("We Need to Talk About Fifty-Five" / "Induction"), the prose has been fattened; the result is closer to a traditional novel, which isn't necessarily an improvement. There is a clipped, brisk quality to the 2020 version that fits the style of the Foundation, and even Marion's/Marie's own personality. For example, in the 2025 version Mr Mahlo is described at some length. In the 2020 version, everything we hear is that "an O5 [alias C-level] never looks like you imagine".
This is going to be a fascinating rabbit hole. Anyway, now I have an official reason to re-read the novel. And no, this is not my first time.
I was wondering why you kept referring to her as Marion, lol. Apparently I have only read the newer, revised edition. Which makes sense because I borrowed it from the library both times. How or where did you find the original?
███████ ███████, obviously. Yeah, my bad, but I had no idea that literally everybody in the novel switches name. And honestly I like the old ones better. What kind of surname is Hix? If anyone's curious, the 2020 version appears to be quite verbatim from the website: https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/antimeme...
Alistair wrote: "███████ ███████, obviously. ..."
That's freaking' hilarious, Alistair!
Alistair wrote: "███████ ███████, obviously. Yeah, my bad, but I had no idea that literally everybody in the novel switches name. And honestly I like the old ones better. What kind of surname is Hix? If anyone's ..."
LOL!
Thanks for the link - I'll definitely check it out (if I don't forget. :P)
If anyone is interested, Amal El-Mohtar wrote a piece in the NYTBR about 3 recent SF books, and this is one of them: https://www.nytimes.com/2026/07/22/bo...Not sure if she can sway me to improve my overall opinion of the book, but it's an interesting read.
Mostly for my own reference, since I seem to be the only one who's handling both editions, I'll put here a list of the name changes from one version of the novel to the other. 2020 || 2025
The Foundation || the Organisation
Site 41 || Wyeleigh
Marion A. Hutchinson Wheeler || Marie Sheridan Quinn
Adam Bellamy Wheeler || Adam Benjamin Quinn
Bartholomew "Bart" Hughes || Edward "Ed" Hix
Paul Kim || Simon Lee ("Introductory Antimemetics")
Alastair Grey, SCP-4739 || Adrian Gage, U-7175 ("Introductory Antimemetics")
Lyn Marness || Andrew Hilton ("Unforgettable, That's What You Are")
Alex Gauss ("Where Have You Been All My Life") || Geoff Ives ("Unforgettable, That's What You Are")
Dr Eli Moreno || Dr Oli Morgan ("Immemorial")
George Barsin || James Bess ("Ojai").
Alistair wrote: "Mostly for my own reference, since I seem to be the only one who's handling both editions, I'll put here a list of the name changes from one version of the novel to the other. 2020 || 2025
The F..."
I am really curious to know why the author decided to change so many characters' names - especially the major ones. It seems like an odd thing to do.
no wonder I felt confused reading this thread
Copyright. Or rather, in this case, copyleft. To the best of my understanding, the author published the original material with a free-distribution copyleft, meaning that a commercial edition of the book was forced to make changes. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_I...
Alistair, I’m so glad you enjoyed this book so much to pull all the pieces together for us!
Alistair wrote: "Copyright. Or rather, in this case, copyleft. To the best of my understanding, the author published the original material with a free-distribution copyleft, meaning that a commercial edition of t..."
Ah, that makes sense - thank you!
CBRetriever wrote: "no wonder I felt confused reading this thread"I'm afraid I'm the main culprit, but hopefully that'll fix it.
Becky wrote: "Alistair, I’m so glad you enjoyed this book so much to pull all the pieces together for us!"
Again, it was for my own reference more than anything else; "piecing together" the novel has been the only way to read it, for me.
And wait till I tell you about the differences in the plot... they were discussed in the VBC as well.
The disagreement over whether the characters feel flat made me wonder: if they had been more fully developed, would the memory loss have hit harder—or would that extra clarity have weakened the sense that identity itself was being erased?
Mod
I wouldn't change the POV. It has the right kind of distance to give the book the right vibe.
Mod
I'm still sitting with my thoughts on this, but I overall really enjoyed it. I love a cerebral read that is also unpredictable. Questioning reality is part of the meta confusing experience of this book, so I thought that was well done, and very intentional. It's not often that I enjoy a historical scifi, and it's clear qtmn knows how to create a plot. And for characters that are so hard to grasp, I found myself wanting them to survive (bah so many deaths though), and the love story was just enough to not draw away from the other themes. I want to see his outlines!!
Will continue to let my thoughts simmer...
I think that’s right: the distance makes us build their inner lives from what they do, so the erasure reaches something we helped assemble ourselves. A closer point of view might make each loss more painful, but also less strange. Did the distance make you feel more like an observer of the erasure, or more responsible for filling in what was missing?
Imre wrote: "I think that’s right: the distance makes us build their inner lives from what they do, so the erasure reaches something we helped assemble ourselves."I like that a lot!
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Jae, would you call this novel historical? The setting is contemporary. Or maybe what you mean is in fact that it isn't set in the future?
When the narration moves through time periods, as early as the beginning of the Cold War, I do consider those parts to be historical, because they are narrated with present-tense language
I really like the idea of the characters as feeling distant, and Imre, I also love how you described what that distance does. I think that is really what I meant in my original post, rather than the characters being flat. I just didn't have the right words for it.
Oh yeah, there are flashbacks. And I agree, the author clearly has a firm grip on the various moving parts of the plot.
Imre, I'm also with you, as mentioned earlier.
Exactly—your point about connecting what stays implicit is why the distance worked for me. It made interpretation part of the experience. Did that work for you throughout, or did it ever become frustrating?
I don't recall being frustrated; just realising that I might have to go back and pay further attention to the various hints and details.
I had the same feeling. It was a bit annoying at times to have to piece everything together, but mostly it felt earned, and connecting the dots became part of the experience.
SciFi and Fantasy Book Club
Books mentioned in this topic
There Is No Antimemetics Division (other topics)The Spear Cuts Through Water (other topics)
This Is How You Lose the Time War (other topics)
Annihilation (other topics)
Authors mentioned in this topic
James S.A. Corey (other topics)Ann Leckie (other topics)
Italo Calvino (other topics)
1. What did you think of the world?
2. What did you think of the characters?
3. What worked or didn't for you?
4. Overall thoughts?