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Memoirs of a Geisha
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Memoirs of a Geisha by Arthur Golden --- 1990's Theme BOM -- starts 16 June 2026
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Date Chapters MPDQs
16 June 1-7 Carrie - Sinai
17 June 8-15 Teddie - Kinabalu
18 June 16-22 Tammie - Denali
19 June 23-29 Brittany - Olympus
20 June 30-35(end) Ashley - Elbus
Guidance for DQ setters
Aim for a reasonable number of questions: 4 - 5 is typical. Please don't post too many - any more than 7 gets unwieldy!
Use consecutive numbering of the DQs for your days. So, for example, if Day One is posted as questions 1-4, Day Two should start at number 5 etc.
Don't worry too much about your questions: you aren't being tested on how clever your questions are!
Hints and tips:
- Is there a quote that jumped out at you? Use that in a question.
- What about the characters - do they generate strong feelings? No feelings? - either way, we can explore that!
- What about that plot twist?!
- Explore the writing style: is there an unusual structure being used? what's the tone of voice like? or the point of view?
Want more information about how NBRC runs their Book of the Month discussions? Check out the information here
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Teddie Kinabalu
Tammie Denali
Carrie Sinai first day
Brittany Olympus
Ashley Elbus
Sanskritti Pico de Orizaba
Timestamp: 2026-06-13 22:06:58 UTC
Backups
Rina Back up Pico
Angie Back up Sinai
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Volunteering for the DQs. Team Pico de Orizaba!
Volunteering as backup for Carrie! (Team Sinai)
Volunteering as backup for Team Pico de Orizaba.
Thanks Angie! My nomination
First day questions work great for me!
- Team Sinai
I volunteer for DQs for Olympus
I'm in for DQs...Denali
I'm in for DQs - Kinabalu
I'll volunteer for Elbrus!
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I'm good with my day
I'm good with my day!
I’m good with my day. Thanks 😊
Moderators of NBRC-thanks for volunteering your time to keep this fabulous group functioning on all cylinders,Please advise when we can start our buddy read sent in on Anne Rice's novel Prince Lestat -the Vampire Chronicles #11.
Request was sent in 6-10-26.
Day 1 DQ's: Chapters 1-7 1. Why are you reading this book? Did you read in when it was released in the 90's? Have you watched the film? If yes, did you like the book or film better? If you have not, do you plan on watching the film?
2. The book begins with a (fictional) Translator's Note. What are your thoughts about this literary device? What do you think Golden's intentions were by starting the book this way?
3. Golden was harshly criticized for stereotyping geishas as sex workers and promoting Orientalism. This book is a work of fiction. What are your thoughts on this subject? Should writers be allowed to have creative freedom (even if viewed offensive by some) or do they have a duty and obligation to be more representative of the truth?
4. Chiyo (Sayuri) and her sister Satsu undergo a rather devastating scene where they are inspected to determine their worth. When they are told to go into town, Satsu leaves without washing. Meanwhile, Chiyo is excited for what she believes is a path towards their adoption and can't understand why her sister is not more excited. There is a 6 year age difference between the girls. Do you think Satsu had an idea of what their future may hold or do you think she was just as surprised at the brutal "health" check?
5. Hatsumomo clearly has a deep hatred towards Chiyo. On the surface, it seems that she is jealous of the young new arrival. We learn that Hatsumomo is clearly breaking rules by having a boyfriend and doing other things that are frowned upon. Do you think Hatsumomo has other reasons for treating Chiyo with so much cruelty? Do you think Hatsumomo is happy being a geisha?
Day 1 DQ's: Chapters 1-7 1. Why are you reading this book? Did you read in when it was released in the 90's? Have you watched the film? If yes, did you like the book or film better? If you have not, do you plan on watching the film?
I saw the movie when it came out, and liked it a lot. I have always meant to read the book. And, points.
I do remember having a big crush on Ken Watanabe when I saw the film.
2. The book begins with a (fictional) Translator's Note. What are your thoughts about this literary device? What do you think Golden's intentions were by starting the book this way?
It is a great way to make us think that the story is real, so I think it works well as a device. The story carries so much more weight if we think it is based in reality.
3. Golden was harshly criticized for stereotyping geishas as sex workers and promoting Orientalism. This book is a work of fiction. What are your thoughts on this subject? Should writers be allowed to have creative freedom (even if viewed offensive by some) or do they have a duty and obligation to be more representative of the truth?
I think a writer should be able to write whatever they want to. It is up to the reader to choose whether to read it or not. If someone wants to write about history that they did not live through, or aliens, or alternate realities, or another culture than their own, then more power to them. I don't think an author should concern themselves with political correctness, or worrying about bothering someone. That is what editors and publishing houses are for. But even if someone writes something that makes someone angry or uncomfortable, it does not mean that the thing wasn't worth writing.
4. Chiyo (Sayuri) and her sister Satsu undergo a rather devastating scene where they are inspected to determine their worth. When they are told to go into town, Satsu leaves without washing. Meanwhile, Chiyo is excited for what she believes is a path towards their adoption and can't understand why her sister is not more excited. There is a 6 year age difference between the girls. Do you think Satsu had an idea of what their future may hold or do you think she was just as surprised at the brutal "health" check?
I imagine that she was shocked by the "health check" but I think she had some idea of what it was for. Just yuck.
5. Hatsumomo clearly has a deep hatred towards Chiyo. On the surface, it seems that she is jealous of the young new arrival. We learn that Hatsumomo is clearly breaking rules by having a boyfriend and doing other things that are frowned upon. Do you think Hatsumomo has other reasons for treating Chiyo with so much cruelty? Do you think Hatsumomo is happy being a geisha?
I think Hatsumomo wants to be queen of the world, and she thought she would get that by being a geisha. Her disappointment in her own life, coupled with her being jealous of Chiyo's natural beauty and potential makes her a snake. I hate people like that. Only happy when others are miserable.
Day 1 DQ's: Chapters 1-71. Why are you reading this book? Did you read in when it was released in the 90's? Have you watched the film? If yes, did you like the book or film better? If you have not, do you plan on watching the film?
I did read it way back when, and probably wouldn’t be doing a reread but for the BOM. I haven’t seen the movie, but I actually want to now, as there is a lot of telling in this book which I think would translate better in a movie, in the hands of the right director / cinematographer. I just checked imdb and wow, what a cast. Honestly, a little worried Golden is one of the writers, but I’ll probably check it out at some point.
2. The book begins with a (fictional) Translator's Note. What are your thoughts about this literary device? What do you think Golden's intentions were by starting the book this way?
I believe Golden was very taken with his conversations with Mineko Iwasaki, and found it interesting he put himself in this “translator” role. When he says “Like prostitutes,...” comparing geisha to prostitutes, I still felt like he wasn’t going to fully encompass the mystique and training geishas held, but skew the story with a western man’s angle on activities, rather than a woman inhabiting that society and age.
3. Golden was harshly criticized for stereotyping geishas as sex workers and promoting Orientalism. This book is a work of fiction. What are your thoughts on this subject? Should writers be allowed to have creative freedom (even if viewed offensive by some) or do they have a duty and obligation to be more representative of the truth?
One of the issues I have with the book is there is so much telling in this book - like it is trying to be a historical document vs a fictional story that happens to be set in the geisha time / setting. And the telling always made me wonder how authentic a guy from Tennessee really could be about conveying that culture and what geishas meant to the Japan of that time. I get that it’s fiction, but he also seems to be trying to be a geisha expert, though I never really believed Chiyo’s inner thoughts as a woman, much less a geisha. I don’t know - maybe that’s why it didn’t totally work for me.
4. Chiyo (Sayuri) and her sister Satsu undergo a rather devastating scene where they are inspected to determine their worth. When they are told to go into town, Satsu leaves without washing. Meanwhile, Chiyo is excited for what she believes is a path towards their adoption and can't understand why her sister is not more excited. There is a 6 year age difference between the girls. Do you think Satsu had an idea of what their future may hold or do you think she was just as surprised at the brutal "health" check?
I doubt that either of them realized what was going to happen. That scene really depicted both girls as commodities
5. Hatsumomo clearly has a deep hatred towards Chiyo. On the surface, it seems that she is jealous of the young new arrival. We learn that Hatsumomo is clearly breaking rules by having a boyfriend and doing other things that are frowned upon. Do you think Hatsumomo has other reasons for treating Chiyo with so much cruelty? Do you think Hatsumomo is happy being a geisha?
Hatsumomo is only happy when exerting power, often as cruelly as possible. She doesn’t need to be liked to be obeyed. She clearly identified Chiyo as competition and did whatever she could to eliminate that future. And Golden needed some clear villains in the story, to better present Chiyo as a clear victim.
1. Why are you reading this book? Did you read in when it was released in the 90's? Have you watched the film? If yes, did you like the book or film better? If you have not, do you plan on watching the film?I have never read it although thought I might sometime in the future. But now I am reading it for this challenge. I have not seen the film either. However it looks like it's free on YouTube so I might watch it after I finish the book.
2. The book begins with a (fictional) Translator's Note. What are your thoughts about this literary device? What do you think Golden's intentions were by starting the book this way?
No doubt Golden is trying to be clever and thinking it gives the POV an interesting slant. However my 2nd and 3rd thoughts are telling me that it's Golden's attempt to get around gender and cultural appropriation.
3. Golden was harshly criticized for stereotyping geishas as sex workers and promoting Orientalism. This book is a work of fiction. What are your thoughts on this subject? Should writers be allowed to have creative freedom (even if viewed offensive by some) or do they have a duty and obligation to be more representative of the truth?
Writers of fiction should definitely be allowed to write however and whatever they wish. But so to may readers and critics say whatever they wish as well.
4. Chiyo (Sayuri) and her sister Satsu undergo a rather devastating scene where they are inspected to determine their worth. When they are told to go into town, Satsu leaves without washing. Meanwhile, Chiyo is excited for what she believes is a path towards their adoption and can't understand why her sister is not more excited. There is a 6 year age difference between the girls. Do you think Satsu had an idea of what their future may hold or do you think she was just as surprised at the brutal "health" check?
The abuse here (and as the novel goes along) is unsettling. And I got the sense that, as written, Satsu wasn't as clever as her little sister. I don't think either one of them knew what to expect.
5. Hatsumomo clearly has a deep hatred towards Chiyo. On the surface, it seems that she is jealous of the young new arrival. We learn that Hatsumomo is clearly breaking rules by having a boyfriend and doing other things that are frowned upon. Do you think Hatsumomo has other reasons for treating Chiyo with so much cruelty? Do you think Hatsumomo is happy being a geisha?
Hatsumomo is used to being the center of everything in her little world, and she believes Chiyo capable of destroying that. As of now, she's written as a black & white sort of villain. We don't really see any motivation for her actions other than jealousy of this pretty newcomer. I think the boyfriend is partially her way of acting like she's so special that she's above the rules. But it may also be that deep down she knows that she's a pawn in the geisha system and the boyfriend is her way of making her own decisions on at least one aspect of her life.
Day 1 DQ's: Chapters 1-71. Why are you reading this book? Did you read in when it was released in the 90's? Have you watched the film? If yes, did you like the book or film better? If you have not, do you plan on watching the film?
I have had this on my physical TBR for what seems like forever. It is one of those books that kept getting put aside. So, I'm reading it for the points, of course! Lol. I haven't seen the movie either. Not sure if I will watch it, only time will tell.
2. The book begins with a (fictional) Translator's Note. What are your thoughts about this literary device? What do you think Golden's intentions were by starting the book this way?
I thought it was to give the illusion that the story was "real" or based on a real person. It's a good literary device, in my opinion, because I think readers would appreciate the story more if it were based on real events. But, I wonder if this misleads some readers and they do think it is real.....
3. Golden was harshly criticized for stereotyping geishas as sex workers and promoting Orientalism. This book is a work of fiction. What are your thoughts on this subject? Should writers be allowed to have creative freedom (even if viewed offensive by some) or do they have a duty and obligation to be more representative of the truth?
Writers should be able to tell any story they wish - if they label it as fiction, the manner in which they tell the story shouldn't matter. If the story is labeled non-fiction, it better be a true representation of the story/events. In the same light, readers are free to read, not read and have their own opinion of what they read or why they did not.
4. Chiyo (Sayuri) and her sister Satsu undergo a rather devastating scene where they are inspected to determine their worth. When they are told to go into town, Satsu leaves without washing. Meanwhile, Chiyo is excited for what she believes is a path towards their adoption and can't understand why her sister is not more excited. There is a 6 year age difference between the girls. Do you think Satsu had an idea of what their future may hold or do you think she was just as surprised at the brutal "health" check?
I doubt either had a true idea of what was about to happen. Although Satsu may have had more of an inkling.
5. Hatsumomo clearly has a deep hatred towards Chiyo. On the surface, it seems that she is jealous of the young new arrival. We learn that Hatsumomo is clearly breaking rules by having a boyfriend and doing other things that are frowned upon. Do you think Hatsumomo has other reasons for treating Chiyo with so much cruelty? Do you think Hatsumomo is happy being a geisha? I think Hatsumomo wants to be the only one at the top and see sees Chiyo's beauty and is threatened by that. I don't think she is happy with her life - it probably didn't give her the power or status that she expected. So she makes her own power by taking advantage of others and making them miserable. I think the boyfriend was another way of showing her "power" or making herself believe that she actually had some.
Day 1 DQ's: Chapters 1-71. Why are you reading this book? Did you read in when it was released in the 90's? Have you watched the film? If yes, did you like the book or film better? If you have not, do you plan on watching the film?
I'm solely reading this because it's the BOM, I never really had any desire to read it otherwise, and I haven't seen the film either! I will probably try to watch it once I've read the book.
2. The book begins with a (fictional) Translator's Note. What are your thoughts about this literary device? What do you think Golden's intentions were by starting the book this way?
I'm not sure, other than to make the work feel more legitimate?
3. Golden was harshly criticized for stereotyping geishas as sex workers and promoting Orientalism. This book is a work of fiction. What are your thoughts on this subject? Should writers be allowed to have creative freedom (even if viewed offensive by some) or do they have a duty and obligation to be more representative of the truth?
I think that it's probably accurate critisism, though I'm sure it would be worse if released today vs. then. I'm not sure I've read enough to have a lot of thoughts yet, but I will say that (as I'm listening to it), I was disappointed that the narrator wasn't Japanese. It makes the narrative feel whitewashed immediately.
However, I do not think that author's should be put in boxes, especially racially ones, and I think that the work will always (eventually) speak for itself.
4. Chiyo (Sayuri) and her sister Satsu undergo a rather devastating scene where they are inspected to determine their worth. When they are told to go into town, Satsu leaves without washing. Meanwhile, Chiyo is excited for what she believes is a path towards their adoption and can't understand why her sister is not more excited. There is a 6 year age difference between the girls. Do you think Satsu had an idea of what their future may hold or do you think she was just as surprised at the brutal "health" check?
I'm positive that's the case. 6 years between children is STARK. She knew, and she was terrified and angry, regardless of how she responded.
Considering the plan she lays out in Ch 7, she is trying to save her sister as well as herself.
5. Hatsumomo clearly has a deep hatred towards Chiyo. On the surface, it seems that she is jealous of the young new arrival. We learn that Hatsumomo is clearly breaking rules by having a boyfriend and doing other things that are frowned upon. Do you think Hatsumomo has other reasons for treating Chiyo with so much cruelty? Do you think Hatsumomo is happy being a geisha?
I'm not sure on Hatsumomo yet. It's clearly some jealousy, but there could be something else under the surface. Her behavior is very erratic and confusing. I really want to believe that women will band together to save/help each other, even when there may be no reason to believe that. We will see, but I'll likely be disappointed, lol.
Day 2 DQ's: Chapters 8-13I’m struggling a bit writing questions for this section, so I apologize ahead of time for the longish quotes used below :)
6. I’m finding Chiyo to be a rather passive character, despite her trying to escape, and perhaps that is intentional as she has “... a great deal of water in [her] personality. Water never waits. It changes shape and flows around things, and finds the secret paths no one else has thought about—the tiny hole through the roof or the bottom of a box. There’s no doubt it’s the most versatile of the five elements.”
How are you finding Chiyo’s character so far? Versatile in hard situations? Passive to tradition? A survivor? Poetic?
7. Chiyo meets the Chairman:
“In that brief encounter with the Chairman, I had changed from a lost girl facing a lifetime of emptiness to a girl with purpose in her life. Perhaps it seems odd that a casual meeting on the street could have brought about such change. But sometimes life is like that, isn’t it?”
What are your thoughts about this meeting? Did she respond to the Chairman like this because her own father sold her and the Chairman was the first person who showed her kindness without expecting something in return, or was it fate, or…?
8. There is much about the zodiac, elements, and consultation of the almanac for auspicious dates:
“I’d never understood how closely things are connected to one another. And it isn’t just the zodiac I’m talking about. We human beings are only a part of something very much larger. When we walk along, we may crush a beetle or simply cause a change in the air so that a fly ends up where it might never have gone otherwise. And if we think of the same example but with ourselves in the role of the insect, and the larger universe in the role we’ve just played, it’s perfectly clear that we’re affected every day by forces over which we have no more control than the poor beetle has over our gigantic foot as it descends upon it. What are we to do? We must use whatever methods we can to understand the movement of the universe around us and time our actions so that we are not fighting the currents, but moving with them.”
How much do you believe chance plays in the direction of your life? Are you a go with the flow down the river of life kind of person? Or do you plot a point and row towards it with unwavering focus? Or a bit of both, believing pluck makes luck?
9. By the end of chapter 13, Chiyo seems to be bereft of any real emotional connections: her parents are dead, sister is gone, lives with women who are looking to torment or profit from her. Even her friendship with Pumpkin is cut off, the Chairman in her head is a fantasy, her new relationship with Mameha isn’t based on affection, and now, she’s heading into a vocation that encourages a certain distance and duty. Do you think any of these characters will become close to Chiyo, a new family of sorts? Or will she stay benignly detached, floating like a blushing petal drifting gently from a withering cherry blossom?
Day 1 DQ's: Chapters 1-71. Why are you reading this book? Did you read in when it was released in the 90's? Have you watched the film? If yes, did you like the book or film better? If you have not, do you plan on watching the film?
I am reading it for the Towers Challenge, but I was due for a re-read anyway after having read several biographies of the geisha's whose lives Arthur Golden twisted for this narrative. I read it after watchign the film abotu 50 times, and I still prefer the film, probably because it was my sanity movie for abotu 3 months straight.
2. The book begins with a (fictional) Translator's Note. What are your thoughts about this literary device? What do you think Golden's intentions were by starting the book this way?
His intentions were to make the book seem more authentic, even though he stole most of these ideas from the real geishas he interviewed and worked with to help them write their biographies before he decided to use their ideas for himself in a hollywoodized version that disguised a lot of truth and made it more palatable to racist Americans.
3. Golden was harshly criticized for stereotyping geishas as sex workers and promoting Orientalism. This book is a work of fiction. What are your thoughts on this subject? Should writers be allowed to have creative freedom (even if viewed offensive by some) or do they have a duty and obligation to be more representative of the truth?
Specifically this book is pretty horrible due to the atrocities of it's author. But I love Sayuri anyway.
4. Chiyo (Sayuri) and her sister Satsu undergo a rather devastating scene where they are inspected to determine their worth. When they are told to go into town, Satsu leaves without washing. Meanwhile, Chiyo is excited for what she believes is a path towards their adoption and can't understand why her sister is not more excited. There is a 6 year age difference between the girls. Do you think Satsu had an idea of what their future may hold or do you think she was just as surprised at the brutal "health" check?
I am sure that Satsu knew more but I am sure even knowing that something so brutal can never truly be anticipated.
5. Hatsumomo clearly has a deep hatred towards Chiyo. On the surface, it seems that she is jealous of the young new arrival. We learn that Hatsumomo is clearly breaking rules by having a boyfriend and doing other things that are frowned upon. Do you think Hatsumomo has other reasons for treating Chiyo with so much cruelty? Do you think Hatsumomo is happy being a geisha?
Part of the reason Hatsumomo is so hard on Chiyo is also because she knows she will nto make it if she is soft. Also anyone is competition here. The threat is real when a younger girl who can still sell her virginity comes in and can take your place and leave you on the street.
Day 2 DQ's: Chapters 8-136. I’m finding Chiyo to be a rather passive character, despite her trying to escape, and perhaps that is intentional as she has “... a great deal of water in [her] personality. Water never waits. It changes shape and flows around things, and finds the secret paths no one else has thought about—the tiny hole through the roof or the bottom of a box. There’s no doubt it’s the most versatile of the five elements.”
How are you finding Chiyo’s character so far? Versatile in hard situations? Passive to tradition? A survivor? Poetic?
At this point Chiyo still is unnamed and still is very young. She has lost her parents and her sister and is not treated gently. But even at her age she is behind other girls in this career path. She is passive but not in a docile while, more in a wait and see which way to move way
7. Chiyo meets the Chairman:
“In that brief encounter with the Chairman, I had changed from a lost girl facing a lifetime of emptiness to a girl with purpose in her life. Perhaps it seems odd that a casual meeting on the street could have brought about such change. But sometimes life is like that, isn’t it?”
What are your thoughts about this meeting? Did she respond to the Chairman like this because her own father sold her and the Chairman was the first person who showed her kindness without expecting something in return, or was it fate, or…?
forgive me use of animal cruelty but at this point Chiyo is a bit like a beaten dog that finds a kind pet from a stranger. The obsession is disgusting in the age gap, but it is romantacized and this was just life here. I am sure he seemed like a golden hero to her being a good looking middle aged man that could save her. She had seen enough treatment at this point and you learn early on who is going to hurt or help you.
8. There is much about the zodiac, elements, and consultation of the almanac for auspicious dates:
“I’d never understood how closely things are connected to one another. And it isn’t just the zodiac I’m talking about. We human beings are only a part of something very much larger. When we walk along, we may crush a beetle or simply cause a change in the air so that a fly ends up where it might never have gone otherwise. And if we think of the same example but with ourselves in the role of the insect, and the larger universe in the role we’ve just played, it’s perfectly clear that we’re affected every day by forces over which we have no more control than the poor beetle has over our gigantic foot as it descends upon it. What are we to do? We must use whatever methods we can to understand the movement of the universe around us and time our actions so that we are not fighting the currents, but moving with them.”
How much do you believe chance plays in the direction of your life? Are you a go with the flow down the river of life kind of person? Or do you plot a point and row towards it with unwavering focus? Or a bit of both, believing pluck makes luck?
I think there are things out of our control like when and where we are born, what kind of family, etc. But we also have the power to take that beginning and choose to bea victim or a victor.
9. By the end of chapter 13, Chiyo seems to be bereft of any real emotional connections: her parents are dead, sister is gone, lives with women who are looking to torment or profit from her. Even her friendship with Pumpkin is cut off, the Chairman in her head is a fantasy, her new relationship with Mameha isn’t based on affection, and now, she’s heading into a vocation that encourages a certain distance and duty. Do you think any of these characters will become close to Chiyo, a new family of sorts? Or will she stay benignly detached, floating like a blushing petal drifting gently from a withering cherry blossom?
Mameha and the House benefit the most from her success so she will align with what relationships can also help her.
Day 2 DQ's: Chapters 8-13I’m struggling a bit writing questions for this section, so I apologize ahead of time for the longish quotes used below :)
6. I’m finding Chiyo to be a rather passive character, despite her trying to escape, and perhaps that is intentional as she has “... a great deal of water in [her] personality. Water never waits. It changes shape and flows around things, and finds the secret paths no one else has thought about—the tiny hole through the roof or the bottom of a box. There’s no doubt it’s the most versatile of the five elements.”
How are you finding Chiyo’s character so far? Versatile in hard situations? Passive to tradition? A survivor? Poetic?
I think my main reaction is to want to give her a hug. I'm not sure that the author is portraying her as the one to completely root for, as she will overcome all in the end very well. Not sure that made sense.
7. Chiyo meets the Chairman:
“In that brief encounter with the Chairman, I had changed from a lost girl facing a lifetime of emptiness to a girl with purpose in her life. Perhaps it seems odd that a casual meeting on the street could have brought about such change. But sometimes life is like that, isn’t it?”
What are your thoughts about this meeting? Did she respond to the Chairman like this because her own father sold her and the Chairman was the first person who showed her kindness without expecting something in return, or was it fate, or…?
The unexpected kindness, combined with sugar, and the image of the beautiful and seemingly happy people around The Chairman, was enough to make a permanent impression on her. It was fate in so far as she believes in fate, so this fits.
8. There is much about the zodiac, elements, and consultation of the almanac for auspicious dates:
“I’d never understood how closely things are connected to one another. And it isn’t just the zodiac I’m talking about. We human beings are only a part of something very much larger. When we walk along, we may crush a beetle or simply cause a change in the air so that a fly ends up where it might never have gone otherwise. And if we think of the same example but with ourselves in the role of the insect, and the larger universe in the role we’ve just played, it’s perfectly clear that we’re affected every day by forces over which we have no more control than the poor beetle has over our gigantic foot as it descends upon it. What are we to do? We must use whatever methods we can to understand the movement of the universe around us and time our actions so that we are not fighting the currents, but moving with them.”
How much do you believe chance plays in the direction of your life? Are you a go with the flow down the river of life kind of person? Or do you plot a point and row towards it with unwavering focus? Or a bit of both, believing pluck makes luck?
I am not a person that believes that everything happens for a reason. Sometimes you forget your lunch box, go back home to get it, and then get hit by a car that would have missed you if you were crossing the street two minutes earlier. Did the stars align to make that happen? No. You just forgot your lunch box, and then crap happened to you. When it comes to events that you can influence, by being prepared, or by learning a thing, or by not doing a thing, these directly steer you on or off of a path.
9. By the end of chapter 13, Chiyo seems to be bereft of any real emotional connections: her parents are dead, sister is gone, lives with women who are looking to torment or profit from her. Even her friendship with Pumpkin is cut off, the Chairman in her head is a fantasy, her new relationship with Mameha isn’t based on affection, and now, she’s heading into a vocation that encourages a certain distance and duty. Do you think any of these characters will become close to Chiyo, a new family of sorts? Or will she stay benignly detached, floating like a blushing petal drifting gently from a withering cherry blossom?
I like the cherry blossom quote. She will try to become close to someone at least. Not sure if it will happen. (I vaguely remember some stuff from the movie version, but really, it has been too long.)
Day 2 DQ's: Chapters 8-136. I’m finding Chiyo to be a rather passive character, despite her trying to escape, and perhaps that is intentional as she has “... a great deal of water in [her] personality. Water never waits. It changes shape and flows around things, and finds the secret paths no one else has thought about—the tiny hole through the roof or the bottom of a box. There’s no doubt it’s the most versatile of the five elements.”
How are you finding Chiyo’s character so far? Versatile in hard situations? Passive to tradition? A survivor? Poetic?
I agree, I think she is passive, but she is also still young, and I think that makes a difference. Losing parents, being sold off, I mean... It's not much of a confidence boost... However, she has some spunk, so we will see!
7. Chiyo meets the Chairman:
“In that brief encounter with the Chairman, I had changed from a lost girl facing a lifetime of emptiness to a girl with purpose in her life. Perhaps it seems odd that a casual meeting on the street could have brought about such change. But sometimes life is like that, isn’t it?”
What are your thoughts about this meeting? Did she respond to the Chairman like this because her own father sold her and the Chairman was the first person who showed her kindness without expecting something in return, or was it fate, or…?
I think yes, this is still a trauma response. I don't like books that romanticize this type of thing, so while I'm reserving judgement until later in the book. I hope she saves herself, but I know that's just not always feasible.
8. There is much about the zodiac, elements, and consultation of the almanac for auspicious dates:
“I’d never understood how closely things are connected to one another. And it isn’t just the zodiac I’m talking about. We human beings are only a part of something very much larger. When we walk along, we may crush a beetle or simply cause a change in the air so that a fly ends up where it might never have gone otherwise. And if we think of the same example but with ourselves in the role of the insect, and the larger universe in the role we’ve just played, it’s perfectly clear that we’re affected every day by forces over which we have no more control than the poor beetle has over our gigantic foot as it descends upon it. What are we to do? We must use whatever methods we can to understand the movement of the universe around us and time our actions so that we are not fighting the currents, but moving with them.”
How much do you believe chance plays in the direction of your life? Are you a go with the flow down the river of life kind of person? Or do you plot a point and row towards it with unwavering focus? Or a bit of both, believing pluck makes luck?
Personally? I mean, I don't believe in any sort of fate/higher power, etc., so fate in real life isn't a concept I blame for things. I just live, with intention, to move towards what I want.
In books however, I enjoy the fate trope...
9. By the end of chapter 13, Chiyo seems to be bereft of any real emotional connections: her parents are dead, sister is gone, lives with women who are looking to torment or profit from her. Even her friendship with Pumpkin is cut off, the Chairman in her head is a fantasy, her new relationship with Mameha isn’t based on affection, and now, she’s heading into a vocation that encourages a certain distance and duty. Do you think any of these characters will become close to Chiyo, a new family of sorts? Or will she stay benignly detached, floating like a blushing petal drifting gently from a withering cherry blossom?
Um, I can't really decide. Considering the book is about her, I'd like to think she will become master of her own life, but who really knows (other than people who read the book or saw the movie, lol). My guess is she's going to align, at least "politically", with Mameha, but I don't know if that translates to more or not.
Day 2 DQ's: Chapters 8-136. I’m finding Chiyo to be a rather passive character, despite her trying to escape, and perhaps that is intentional as she has “... a great deal of water in [her] personality. Water never waits. It changes shape and flows around things, and finds the secret paths no one else has thought about—the tiny hole through the roof or the bottom of a box. There’s no doubt it’s the most versatile of the five elements.”
How are you finding Chiyo’s character so far? Versatile in hard situations? Passive to tradition? A survivor? Poetic?
Compared to the bold personalities of the people around her, she does seem a bit passive. I do agree that is more of a wait and see what I need to do than a blasé/uncaring king of way. I also agree that she does seem like she needs a hug or a real friend!
7. Chiyo meets the Chairman:
“In that brief encounter with the Chairman, I had changed from a lost girl facing a lifetime of emptiness to a girl with purpose in her life. Perhaps it seems odd that a casual meeting on the street could have brought about such change. But sometimes life is like that, isn’t it?”
What are your thoughts about this meeting? Did she respond to the Chairman like this because her own father sold her and the Chairman was the first person who showed her kindness without expecting something in return, or was it fate, or…?
When you face so much ridicule and hatred, anyone that offers you kindness is going to make an impression and is going to be someone that you want to be around. Fate...probably for the day and time portrayed here.
8. There is much about the zodiac, elements, and consultation of the almanac for auspicious dates:
“I’d never understood how closely things are connected to one another. And it isn’t just the zodiac I’m talking about. We human beings are only a part of something very much larger. When we walk along, we may crush a beetle or simply cause a change in the air so that a fly ends up where it might never have gone otherwise. And if we think of the same example but with ourselves in the role of the insect, and the larger universe in the role we’ve just played, it’s perfectly clear that we’re affected every day by forces over which we have no more control than the poor beetle has over our gigantic foot as it descends upon it. What are we to do? We must use whatever methods we can to understand the movement of the universe around us and time our actions so that we are not fighting the currents, but moving with them.”
How much do you believe chance plays in the direction of your life? Are you a go with the flow down the river of life kind of person? Or do you plot a point and row towards it with unwavering focus? Or a bit of both, believing pluck makes luck?
I guess I am in the middle here. There are things that are out of our control, but we have options on how to move on from those things. I pick a path, but when the next thing out of my control comes along, that may steer me toward a different path. I think the things you can control, guide you more than anything else.
9. By the end of chapter 13, Chiyo seems to be bereft of any real emotional connections: her parents are dead, sister is gone, lives with women who are looking to torment or profit from her. Even her friendship with Pumpkin is cut off, the Chairman in her head is a fantasy, her new relationship with Mameha isn’t based on affection, and now, she’s heading into a vocation that encourages a certain distance and duty. Do you think any of these characters will become close to Chiyo, a new family of sorts? Or will she stay benignly detached, floating like a blushing petal drifting gently from a withering cherry blossom?
I think she will try to make connections, but not sure whether it will end up being based on affection. I see her trying to make connections that will help her instead of connections for emotional support at this point.
I'm loving all of your responses to the question of whether we are fated to a destiny or have more self determination. I have recently been making little comfort lists, dividing Things I Can't Control and Things I Can Control, trying to insert little actions in the second list that could have some, if small, impact on the first. So thank you. :)
Day 2 DQ's: Chapters 8-136. I’m finding Chiyo to be a rather passive character, despite her trying to escape, and perhaps that is intentional as she has “... a great deal of water in [her] personality. Water never waits. It changes shape and flows around things, and finds the secret paths no one else has thought about—the tiny hole through the roof or the bottom of a box. There’s no doubt it’s the most versatile of the five elements.”
How are you finding Chiyo’s character so far? Versatile in hard situations? Passive to tradition? A survivor? Poetic?
Golden writes her as a water person but I see her as much more passive than that. It will be interesting to see if she changes as she matures. However I also think that part of it is Golden's vision of a geisha as being demure and passive and I think he's projecting that onto her character.
7. Chiyo meets the Chairman:
“In that brief encounter with the Chairman, I had changed from a lost girl facing a lifetime of emptiness to a girl with purpose in her life. Perhaps it seems odd that a casual meeting on the street could have brought about such change. But sometimes life is like that, isn’t it?”
What are your thoughts about this meeting? Did she respond to the Chairman like this because her own father sold her and the Chairman was the first person who showed her kindness without expecting something in return, or was it fate, or…?
I found it unsettling that a young teenaged girl would meet an older man and feel like he turned her world around. Too Epstein-like for my taste.
8. There is much about the zodiac, elements, and consultation of the almanac for auspicious dates:
“I’d never understood how closely things are connected to one another. And it isn’t just the zodiac I’m talking about. We human beings are only a part of something very much larger. When we walk along, we may crush a beetle or simply cause a change in the air so that a fly ends up where it might never have gone otherwise. And if we think of the same example but with ourselves in the role of the insect, and the larger universe in the role we’ve just played, it’s perfectly clear that we’re affected every day by forces over which we have no more control than the poor beetle has over our gigantic foot as it descends upon it. What are we to do? We must use whatever methods we can to understand the movement of the universe around us and time our actions so that we are not fighting the currents, but moving with them.”
How much do you believe chance plays in the direction of your life? Are you a go with the flow down the river of life kind of person? Or do you plot a point and row towards it with unwavering focus? Or a bit of both, believing pluck makes luck?
I do not believe in fate, but am certainly accepting of those who do.
9. By the end of chapter 13, Chiyo seems to be bereft of any real emotional connections: her parents are dead, sister is gone, lives with women who are looking to torment or profit from her. Even her friendship with Pumpkin is cut off, the Chairman in her head is a fantasy, her new relationship with Mameha isn’t based on affection, and now, she’s heading into a vocation that encourages a certain distance and duty. Do you think any of these characters will become close to Chiyo, a new family of sorts? Or will she stay benignly detached, floating like a blushing petal drifting gently from a withering cherry blossom?
I'd like to hope that she will form connections as the story moves forward. I'm not sure how Golden will handle it.
Day 1 DQ's: Chapters 1-71. Why are you reading this book? Did you read in when it was released in the 90's? Have you watched the film? If yes, did you like the book or film better? If you have not, do you plan on watching the film?
I bought the paperback in an airport back in like 1998 (and still have it) and loved it the first time around. Also watched the movie when it came out. But my tastes have drastically changed and after learning more about the history of Korea/Japan, had no desire to re-read it. So only doing it for the points.
2. The book begins with a (fictional) Translator's Note. What are your thoughts about this literary device? What do you think Golden's intentions were by starting the book this way?
I felt like he was making the story more personal.
3. Golden was harshly criticized for stereotyping geishas as sex workers and promoting Orientalism. This book is a work of fiction. What are your thoughts on this subject? Should writers be allowed to have creative freedom (even if viewed offensive by some) or do they have a duty and obligation to be more representative of the truth?
It's fiction. I think author's have the right to write what they wish as long as that is clear. I don't understand why people get so bent out of shape for everything. But in the case of a geisha, I think that is what people (westerners) tend to think of them if they don't know anything about geisha. But at the same time I think geishas are to a certain point like prostitutes. Like their virginity gets sold, and then they have a benefactor who expects them to have sex with them. So aren't they to a point?
4. Chiyo (Sayuri) and her sister Satsu undergo a rather devastating scene where they are inspected to determine their worth. When they are told to go into town, Satsu leaves without washing. Meanwhile, Chiyo is excited for what she believes is a path towards their adoption and can't understand why her sister is not more excited. There is a 6 year age difference between the girls. Do you think Satsu had an idea of what their future may hold or do you think she was just as surprised at the brutal "health" check?
I think Satsu had a better idea of what was going on. Chiyo was too young and naive.
5. Hatsumomo clearly has a deep hatred towards Chiyo. On the surface, it seems that she is jealous of the young new arrival. We learn that Hatsumomo is clearly breaking rules by having a boyfriend and doing other things that are frowned upon. Do you think Hatsumomo has other reasons for treating Chiyo with so much cruelty? Do you think Hatsumomo is happy being a geisha?
I think Hatsumomo isn't happy in her life. And she takes that out on everyone around her. With Chiyo, it's also jealousy. A young pretty thing comes in so she's afraid that Chiyo will eventually take her place.
Day 2 DQ's: Chapters 8-13I’m struggling a bit writing questions for this section, so I apologize ahead of time for the longish quotes used below :)
6. How are you finding Chiyo’s character so far? Versatile in hard situations? Passive to tradition? A survivor? Poetic?
She's just young and naive. But I also think she's smart in knowing what to do in order to survive. And we also need to take into account that that is their culture (being submissive/passive).
7. Chiyo meets the Chairman:
What are your thoughts about this meeting? Did she respond to the Chairman like this because her own father sold her and the Chairman was the first person who showed her kindness without expecting something in return, or was it fate, or…?
It was "fate", as much as it can be in a book :P It was an act of kindness that changed her. I think it was the device to give Chiyo the push she needed to WANT to be a geisha and turn things around.
8. There is much about the zodiac, elements, and consultation of the almanac for auspicious dates:
How much do you believe chance plays in the direction of your life? Are you a go with the flow down the river of life kind of person? Or do you plot a point and row towards it with unwavering focus? Or a bit of both, believing pluck makes luck?
I believe everything is chance. There are so many factors, if changed just one fraction or one second, could change the trajectory. Nothing is set in stone. I'm a go-with-the flow girl.
9. By the end of chapter 13, Chiyo seems to be bereft of any real emotional connections: her parents are dead, sister is gone, lives with women who are looking to torment or profit from her. Even her friendship with Pumpkin is cut off, the Chairman in her head is a fantasy, her new relationship with Mameha isn’t based on affection, and now, she’s heading into a vocation that encourages a certain distance and duty. Do you think any of these characters will become close to Chiyo, a new family of sorts? Or will she stay benignly detached, floating like a blushing petal drifting gently from a withering cherry blossom?
I think the world of a geisha is lonely. Yes, there are always people around, but no one you can ever fully trust or truly be yourself with.
Day 1 DQ's: Chapters 1-71. Why are you reading this book? Did you read in when it was released in the 90's? Have you watched the film? If yes, did you like the book or film better? If you have not, do you plan on watching the film?
I'm reading for the BOM. I've heard about it but never read it. No, I have not watched the movie. After reading the book, I will watch the movie.
2. The book begins with a (fictional) Translator's Note. What are your thoughts about this literary device? What do you think Golden's intentions were by starting the book this way?
I find it interesting because it threw me as a reader.
3. Golden was harshly criticized for stereotyping geishas as sex workers and promoting Orientalism. This book is a work of fiction. What are your thoughts on this subject? Should writers be allowed to have creative freedom (even if viewed offensive by some) or do they have a duty and obligation to be more representative of the truth?
This is a work of fiction and I believe the author should have the creative freedom to tell the story. I understand the line blurs a bit between creative freedom and ethical representation. At the end of the day we can't please everyone. Someone will be left disgruntled.
4. Chiyo (Sayuri) and her sister Satsu undergo a rather devastating scene where they are inspected to determine their worth. When they are told to go into town, Satsu leaves without washing. Meanwhile, Chiyo is excited for what she believes is a path towards their adoption and can't understand why her sister is not more excited. There is a 6 year age difference between the girls. Do you think Satsu had an idea of what their future may hold or do you think she was just as surprised at the brutal "health" check?
Yes, Satsu knew absolutely. This scene serves as a heartbreaking literary contrast between Chiyo’s innocence and Satsu’s forced maturity. Satsu's lack of surprise is precisely what made the inspection so devastating for her—she knew exactly what that "health" check meant for their bodies and their freedom.
5. Hatsumomo clearly has a deep hatred towards Chiyo. On the surface, it seems that she is jealous of the young new arrival. We learn that Hatsumomo is clearly breaking rules by having a boyfriend and doing other things that are frowned upon. Do you think Hatsumomo has other reasons for treating Chiyo with so much cruelty? Do you think Hatsumomo is happy being a geisha?
No, Hatsumomo is very unhappy being a geisha. I feel she is cruel because she has no other outlet. Her cruelty toward Chiyo is the tragic projection of her own self-hatred and captivity.
Day 2 DQ's: Chapters 8-136. How are you finding Chiyo’s character so far? Versatile in hard situations? Passive to tradition? A survivor? Poetic?
Chiyo is a rather fascinating protagonist because she embodies a unique paradox: she is deeply passive to tradition on the surface, yet she possesses a fierce, quiet core that makes her an ultimate survivor in hard situations.
7. Chiyo meets the Chairman:
“In that brief encounter with the Chairman, I had changed from a lost girl facing a lifetime of emptiness to a girl with purpose in her life. Perhaps it seems odd that a casual meeting on the street could have brought about such change. But sometimes life is like that, isn’t it?”
What are your thoughts about this meeting? Did she respond to the Chairman like this because her own father sold her and the Chairman was the first person who showed her kindness without expecting something in return, or was it fate, or…?
This is so sad but I felt that the Chairman filled a profound, yawning void left by her father's betrayal. He takes the position of a father figure for the 9 year old girl who had lost her faith in humanity.
8. There is much about the zodiac, elements, and consultation of the almanac for auspicious dates:
“I’d never understood how closely things are connected to one another. And it isn’t just the zodiac I’m talking about. We human beings are only a part of something very much larger. When we walk along, we may crush a beetle or simply cause a change in the air so that a fly ends up where it might never have gone otherwise. And if we think of the same example but with ourselves in the role of the insect, and the larger universe in the role we’ve just played, it’s perfectly clear that we’re affected every day by forces over which we have no more control than the poor beetle has over our gigantic foot as it descends upon it. What are we to do? We must use whatever methods we can to understand the movement of the universe around us and time our actions so that we are not fighting the currents, but moving with them.”
How much do you believe chance plays in the direction of your life? Are you a go with the flow down the river of life kind of person? Or do you plot a point and row towards it with unwavering focus? Or a bit of both, believing pluck makes luck?
I'd say I'm a mix of both. There are things in life that can't be changed, however, I did change the trajectory of my life towards the direction I wanted to go.
9. By the end of chapter 13, Chiyo seems to be bereft of any real emotional connections: her parents are dead, sister is gone, lives with women who are looking to torment or profit from her. Even her friendship with Pumpkin is cut off, the Chairman in her head is a fantasy, her new relationship with Mameha isn’t based on affection, and now, she’s heading into a vocation that encourages a certain distance and duty. Do you think any of these characters will become close to Chiyo, a new family of sorts? Or will she stay benignly detached, floating like a blushing petal drifting gently from a withering cherry blossom?
Honestly, I don't know. I do think Mameha would be a more of an older sister. I'm sure Pumpkin and Chiyo would meet again. The life of a Geisha sure is a lonely one.
Day 1 DQ's: Chapters 1-71. Why are you reading this book? Did you read in when it was released in the 90's? Have you watched the film? If yes, did you like the book or film better? If you have not, do you plan on watching the film? I did read the book back in the 90s. I don't remember it much at all, but I gave it 4 stars so I must have liked it some. I have not watched the film and it's unlikely I will.
2. The book begins with a (fictional) Translator's Note. What are your thoughts about this literary device? What do you think Golden's intentions were by starting the book this way? This time it confused me for a minute, and I wonder if the old me that read the book really thought it was translated. I think what the author did is ok for a fantasy book, but I don't like it in a historical fiction book - I feel like it is deceptive.
3. Golden was harshly criticized for stereotyping geishas as sex workers and promoting Orientalism. This book is a work of fiction. What are your thoughts on this subject? Should writers be allowed to have creative freedom (even if viewed offensive by some) or do they have a duty and obligation to be more representative of the truth? If it is historical fiction, I think the author has a duty to be more representative of the truth. Too many readers will take it as truth.
4. Chiyo (Sayuri) and her sister Satsu undergo a rather devastating scene where they are inspected to determine their worth. When they are told to go into town, Satsu leaves without washing. Meanwhile, Chiyo is excited for what she believes is a path towards their adoption and can't understand why her sister is not more excited. There is a 6 year age difference between the girls. Do you think Satsu had an idea of what their future may hold or do you think she was just as surprised at the brutal "health" check? I think Satsu doesn't have a lot of intelligence and awareness and was just as surprised. I feel REALLY bad for Satsu in this whole situation.
5. Hatsumomo clearly has a deep hatred towards Chiyo. On the surface, it seems that she is jealous of the young new arrival. We learn that Hatsumomo is clearly breaking rules by having a boyfriend and doing other things that are frowned upon. Do you think Hatsumomo has other reasons for treating Chiyo with so much cruelty? Do you think Hatsumomo is happy being a geisha? I think Hatsumomo likes being a geisha. I don't know about her reasons for being mean - but I feel like she is just a cruel person in general. And especially hates Chiyo because Chiyo is pretty.
I apologize for being tardy with DQs. I'll post by 9pm.
Day 1 DQ's: Chapters 1-71. Why are you reading this book? Did you read in when it was released in the 90's? Have you watched the film? If yes, did you like the book or film better? If you have not, do you plan on watching the film?
I have had this book on my tbr forever! No brainer for me showing up as a BOM. I likely won't watch the movie but I do plan to read Mineko Iwasaki's memoir Geisha, a Life at some point.
2. The book begins with a (fictional) Translator's Note. What are your thoughts about this literary device? What do you think Golden's intentions were by starting the book this way?
Others have used it...I looked this one up...The Scarlett Letter, The Princess Bride and Dracula. My opinion is he thought it would make him look like a translator of someone else's experience rather than the creator. Had I not read it I might have had another view point of the story.
3. Golden was harshly criticized for stereotyping geishas as sex workers and promoting Orientalism. This book is a work of fiction. What are your thoughts on this subject? Should writers be allowed to have creative freedom (even if viewed offensive by some) or do they have a duty and obligation to be more representative of the truth?
I think there is a line and I don't think there are rules on this. I've always felt historical fiction should be as close to the truth as possible. The fact that the author altered Iwasaki's truth is unacceptable I think.
4. Chiyo (Sayuri) and her sister Satsu undergo a rather devastating scene where they are inspected to determine their worth. When they are told to go into town, Satsu leaves without washing. Meanwhile, Chiyo is excited for what she believes is a path towards their adoption and can't understand why her sister is not more excited. There is a 6 year age difference between the girls. Do you think Satsu had an idea of what their future may hold or do you think she was just as surprised at the brutal "health" check?
I think Satsu knew it was going to be bad. This was terrible.
5. Hatsumomo clearly has a deep hatred towards Chiyo. On the surface, it seems that she is jealous of the young new arrival. We learn that Hatsumomo is clearly breaking rules by having a boyfriend and doing other things that are frowned upon. Do you think Hatsumomo has other reasons for treating Chiyo with so much cruelty? Do you think Hatsumomo is happy being a geisha?
I think Hatsumomo likes the idea of being the best and she'll do whatever she has to, to make it happen. Some people are mean spirited...it certainly applies to Hatsumomo.
Day 1 DQ's: Chapters 1-71. Why are you reading this book? Did you read in when it was released in the 90's? Have you watched the film? If yes, did you like the book or film better? If you have not, do you plan on watching the film?
I'm reading this book because of the TT challenge for points. I haven't read it before nor seen the movie; however, I have wanted to read it for a while now. If I find the movie on Netflix or Prime Video, I might watch it but only if I love the book.
2. The book begins with a (fictional) Translator's Note. What are your thoughts about this literary device? What do you think Golden's intentions were by starting the book this way?
This type of frame narrative or framing device is common when the author wants to create an extra layer around the story by pretending that someone (in this case the "translator") is presenting the text to the reader.
For me, it makes the story feel more authentic and historical. Since I love historical fiction, it captured my interest quite well. Even though I knew it was a fictional translator based on the genre, it still felt real to me.
3. Golden was harshly criticized for stereotyping geishas as sex workers and promoting Orientalism. This book is a work of fiction. What are your thoughts on this subject? Should writers be allowed to have creative freedom (even if viewed offensive by some) or do they have a duty and obligation to be more representative of the truth?
I think this requires balance by the author. I definitely think that writers should have creative freedom, especially when writing fiction, because stories often explore cultures, experiences, and perspectives beyond the author's own; however, when a novel presents itself as highly realistic or is based on a real culture, I think authors also have a responsiblity to research carefully and avoid reinforcing harmful stereotypes. For me, I think creative freedom and cultural responsibility are both important, and the best books strive for a balance between the two.
4. Chiyo (Sayuri) and her sister Satsu undergo a rather devastating scene where they are inspected to determine their worth. When they are told to go into town, Satsu leaves without washing. Meanwhile, Chiyo is excited for what she believes is a path towards their adoption and can't understand why her sister is not more excited. There is a 6 year age difference between the girls. Do you think Satsu had an idea of what their future may hold or do you think she was just as surprised at the brutal "health" check?
I think Satsu probably understood more than Chiyo, but at her age probably not 100%. Her reaction suggests that she did sense danger and humiliation of the situation in a way that Chiyo could not. I felt the scene was especially sad/tragic because Chiyo still sees hope and opportunity, while Satsu already realizes that something is very wrong.
5. Hatsumomo clearly has a deep hatred towards Chiyo. On the surface, it seems that she is jealous of the young new arrival. We learn that Hatsumomo is clearly breaking rules by having a boyfriend and doing other things that are frowned upon. Do you think Hatsumomo has other reasons for treating Chiyo with so much cruelty? Do you think Hatsumomo is happy being a geisha?
Hatsumomo's cruelty goes beyond simple jealousy. Chiyo represents a threat to everything Hatsumomo values: her beauty, status, and position as the okiya's top earner. So, I think she senses that Chiyo could become a rival one day. I also think she's deeplin insecure and unhappy. She breaks rules, acts recklessly, and often lashes out at others, which suggests she isn't satisfied with her life despite her success. I think she takes those fears out on Chiyo.
Day 1: Chapters 1-71. Why are you reading this book? Did you read in when it was released in the 90's? Have you watched the film? If yes, did you like the book or film better? If you have not, do you plan on watching the film?
I’m simply reading this for the BOM points. I was never really interested enough to read the book after watching the movie, but I’ll give it a shot. I saw the movie a long time ago, when it first came out, and it was beautifully made. The fact that I can still remember some of the scenes means it’s had a lot of impact. So I think the film was better.
2. The book begins with a (fictional) Translator's Note. What are your thoughts about this literary device? What do you think Golden's intentions were by starting the book this way?
It was an interesting choice, and it was a good way to imply that the “memoir” was for a foreign audience who weren’t Japanese. They wouldn’t understand the history and references. If this was a memoir in her native Japanese, then she wouldn’t go into details about the culture, mannerisms, and history. It would be well-known to Japanese readers. So any historical explanation or long description of the Japanese culture will make more sense if the geisha was writing for English-speaking readers.
3. Golden was harshly criticized for stereotyping geishas as sex workers and promoting Orientalism. This book is a work of fiction. What are your thoughts on this subject? Should writers be allowed to have creative freedom (even if viewed offensive by some) or do they have a duty and obligation to be more representative of the truth?
This was partially the reason I was hesitant to read this novel. However, I’m a strong believer that authors shouldn’t be limited in the stories they want to tell and expressions. Even though this is one of the novels that “didn’t age well” doesn’t mean it’s not important. This was hugely popular in the 90s, when multicultural literature was pretty nonexistent. There were rarely successful books set outside of the US or Europe. So having a novel set in Asia was really different and refreshing. I don’t think you’re going to find a novel in the 90s that will 100% be representative of the culture and truth.
4. Chiyo (Sayuri) and her sister Satsu undergo a rather devastating scene where they are inspected to determine their worth. When they are told to go into town, Satsu leaves without washing. Meanwhile, Chiyo is excited for what she believes is a path towards their adoption and can't understand why her sister is not more excited. There is a 6 year age difference between the girls. Do you think Satsu had an idea of what their future may hold or do you think she was just as surprised at the brutal "health" check?
Statsu was clearly more jaded and street smart. I think she knew this wasn’t a good sign.
5. Hatsumomo clearly has a deep hatred towards Chiyo. On the surface, it seems that she is jealous of the young new arrival. We learn that Hatsumomo is clearly breaking rules by having a boyfriend and doing other things that are frowned upon. Do you think Hatsumomo has other reasons for treating Chiyo with so much cruelty? Do you think Hatsumomo is happy being a geisha?
She doesn’t seem like a happy woman and seems self-centered and narcissistic. That said, this is one of my criticisms of the novel. The bad guy is being the bad guy without much of an explanation. I would like more character development with Hatsumomo rather than the mandated antagonist who’s moving the plot and drama along. Why is she so miserable and targeting Chiyo from the start?
Day 3: Chapters 16-2210. The sumo match itself feels secondary to Mameha’s intricate scheme to expose Sayuri to Nobu. What did you think of Sayuri's interactions with Nobu and the Chairman? What about the psychological burden placed on a such a young person, who is strategically forced to charm a powerful, deeply disfigured man like Nobu while secretly pinning her hopes on the Chairman?
11. Hatsumomo and Mameha both rely on wealthy male patrons to 'thrive' or is it 'survive'. Their fierce rivalry over Sayuri—specifically Hatsumomo spreading rumors about Sayuri’s virginity to destroy her financial value—shows how Gion’s rules force women to tear each other down to survive. This systemic sabotage isn't exclusive to geisha culture. What are your thoughts on this type of female-on-female competition, and where have you seen or experienced modern "gatekeeping" or sabotage in your own life or do other examples come to mind?
12. At the Baron's party, Mameha leaves Sayuri alone with a look that signals she expects her to endure whatever happens. Is Mameha sacrificing Sayuri’s safety to protect her own financial investments and social standing? Furthermore, the Baron undresses Sayuri to use her as a mannequin for an antique robe. Is this act a form of assault, or is that too strong a word? How does this moment redefine what "acceptable exploitation" looks like in Gion?
Day 3: Chapters 16-2210. The sumo match itself feels secondary to Mameha’s intricate scheme to expose Sayuri to Nobu. What did you think of Sayuri's interactions with Nobu and the Chairman? What about the psychological burden placed on a such a young person, who is strategically forced to charm a powerful, deeply disfigured man like Nobu while secretly pinning her hopes on the Chairman?
I would hope that she would just think of it as her job, and try to find some enjoyment in it. But, she is smitten, and being close to the Chairman, while not being able to be with him has got to just suck.
11. Hatsumomo and Mameha both rely on wealthy male patrons to 'thrive' or is it 'survive'. Their fierce rivalry over Sayuri—specifically Hatsumomo spreading rumors about Sayuri’s virginity to destroy her financial value—shows how Gion’s rules force women to tear each other down to survive. This systemic sabotage isn't exclusive to geisha culture. What are your thoughts on this type of female-on-female competition, and where have you seen or experienced modern "gatekeeping" or sabotage in your own life or do other examples come to mind?
I think most girls experience that gatekeeping in school. I did run into it there, but not really after high school. Once I was old enough to be able to read the room better, I just avoided the horrible people and hung out with good ones. Life's too short to have to deal with the self-esteem-deprived jerks of the world.
I'm not sure if it is a thing about the Geisha culture, or Gion, that competition and back-stabbing is de rigueur. Unfortunately, it is just human. I mean I have experienced shadenfreude, and I am not proud of it, but generally, I try to be kind to people. Life seems to go better that way. At least for me.
12. At the Baron's party, Mameha leaves Sayuri alone with a look that signals she expects her to endure whatever happens. Is Mameha sacrificing Sayuri’s safety to protect her own financial investments and social standing? Furthermore, the Baron undresses Sayuri to use her as a mannequin for an antique robe. Is this act a form of assault, or is that too strong a word? How does this moment redefine what "acceptable exploitation" looks like in Gion?
I think Mameha would prefer to protect Sayuri, but her own station and safety are at risk if she doesn't go along.
Yes, what the Baron does is a form of assault. Powerful people seem to thrive on using their power. Asshats.
Day 2 DQ's: Chapters 8-136. I’m finding Chiyo to be a rather passive character, despite her trying to escape, and perhaps that is intentional as she has “... a great deal of water in [her] personality. Water never waits. It changes shape and flows around things, and finds the secret paths no one else has thought about—the tiny hole through the roof or the bottom of a box. There’s no doubt it’s the most versatile of the five elements.”
How are you finding Chiyo’s character so far? Versatile in hard situations? Passive to tradition? A survivor? Poetic?
While water seems soft and yielding, it is ultimately the element that can erode stone. Chiyo’s quiet endurance is what allows her to outlast her enemies...so I'd say being passive is a strength and will likely bloom in something even stronger moving forward.
7. Chiyo meets the Chairman:
“In that brief encounter with the Chairman, I had changed from a lost girl facing a lifetime of emptiness to a girl with purpose in her life. Perhaps it seems odd that a casual meeting on the street could have brought about such change. But sometimes life is like that, isn’t it?”
What are your thoughts about this meeting? Did she respond to the Chairman like this because her own father sold her and the Chairman was the first person who showed her kindness without expecting something in return, or was it fate, or…?
I think you are absolutely right...her father's decision to sell her was the trigger for how she reacted to the Chairman.
Her father abandoned her for money and the Chairman completely shatters this view, offering her his handkerchief, a sweet, and money—without demanding anything in return...an unconditional kindness. The writing is good and filled with meaning I think.
8. There is much about the zodiac, elements, and consultation of the almanac for auspicious dates:
“I’d never understood how closely things are connected to one another. And it isn’t just the zodiac I’m talking about. We human beings are only a part of something very much larger. When we walk along, we may crush a beetle or simply cause a change in the air so that a fly ends up where it might never have gone otherwise. And if we think of the same example but with ourselves in the role of the insect, and the larger universe in the role we’ve just played, it’s perfectly clear that we’re affected every day by forces over which we have no more control than the poor beetle has over our gigantic foot as it descends upon it. What are we to do? We must use whatever methods we can to understand the movement of the universe around us and time our actions so that we are not fighting the currents, but moving with them.”
How much do you believe chance plays in the direction of your life? Are you a go with the flow down the river of life kind of person? Or do you plot a point and row towards it with unwavering focus? Or a bit of both, believing pluck makes luck?
I think I'm more of a 'go with the flow' person...although I usually get my way...so picture me with a big ore :) I don't really believe in fate...I believe in choice, choice yields results and so on. No matter how bad things are...we always have a choice in how we react to the circumstances in front of us.
9. By the end of chapter 13, Chiyo seems to be bereft of any real emotional connections: her parents are dead, sister is gone, lives with women who are looking to torment or profit from her. Even her friendship with Pumpkin is cut off, the Chairman in her head is a fantasy, her new relationship with Mameha isn’t based on affection, and now, she’s heading into a vocation that encourages a certain distance and duty. Do you think any of these characters will become close to Chiyo, a new family of sorts? Or will she stay benignly detached, floating like a blushing petal drifting gently from a withering cherry blossom?
Well the terms used 'mother', 'auntie', 'older sisters' is implied family. I think she'll likely detach though...she's strong and seems intelligent enough to know that too much emotion could lead her down a path that's less than good for her and still know that emotion is important on some level for her well being.
Jenny wrote: "Day 3: Chapters 16-2210. The sumo match itself feels secondary to Mameha’s intricate scheme to expose Sayuri to Nobu. What did you think of Sayuri's interactions with Nobu and the Chairman? What ..."
Now don't lie...how many of you went and looked up 'shadenfreude' when you read Jenny's responses...nice word...and I agree...we're all capable/culpable of shadenfreude.
Day 3: Chapters 16-2210. The sumo match itself feels secondary to Mameha’s intricate scheme to expose Sayuri to Nobu. What did you think of Sayuri's interactions with Nobu and the Chairman? What about the psychological burden placed on a such a young person, who is strategically forced to charm a powerful, deeply disfigured man like Nobu while secretly pinning her hopes on the Chairman?
I think that she realizes she is a pawn and is playing the role. In some ways, I think things are pretty honest with her, but you can tell that she is really trying to impress the Chairman, and she thinks that this is still a bit of a game.
11. Hatsumomo and Mameha both rely on wealthy male patrons to 'thrive' or is it 'survive'. Their fierce rivalry over Sayuri—specifically Hatsumomo spreading rumors about Sayuri’s virginity to destroy her financial value—shows how Gion’s rules force women to tear each other down to survive. This systemic sabotage isn't exclusive to geisha culture. What are your thoughts on this type of female-on-female competition, and where have you seen or experienced modern "gatekeeping" or sabotage in your own life or do other examples come to mind?
I don't think there is a single occupation that isn't victim to this kind of toxic relationship in a patriarchal society.
12. At the Baron's party, Mameha leaves Sayuri alone with a look that signals she expects her to endure whatever happens. Is Mameha sacrificing Sayuri’s safety to protect her own financial investments and social standing? Furthermore, the Baron undresses Sayuri to use her as a mannequin for an antique robe. Is this act a form of assault, or is that too strong a word? How does this moment redefine what "acceptable exploitation" looks like in Gion?
Mameha is very abrupt and angry, you can tell that this interaction with her Baron was not her idea, but it also shows the lack of choice that she has, even as a well-revered and secure geisha, she still is just that, a geisha. This is definitely a form of assault.
Day 4: Chapters 23-2913. Mizuage (水揚げ) literally translates to "hoisting from water" or "catch". Historically, it refers to the coming-of-age and defloration ceremony of an apprentice geisha (maiko) or courtesan (oiran), where a patron paid to become her first sexual partner. In terms of the mizuage ceremony, were you shocked by the scene with Dr. Crab, where Sayuri still had no idea what was about to happen and that no one, not even Mameha, had prepared her adequately? Although it is no longer legal in Japan, what are your thoughts on this ceremony?
14. We also get a more intimate look at the Danna system in these chapters. A danna (旦那) is the exclusive, wealthy patron of a geisha. Historically, he is a man who provides financial support to cover her living, training, and professional expenses—such as expensive custom kimonos. In return, the danna is granted an exclusive, highly prestigious romantic and social relationship with the geisha. Once Sayuri turns the collar of her kimono from red to white at age 18, she becomes a full geisha and can accept a danna into her life. Mameha continues to work with her to help her find the right fit. Are you impressed that Mameha still spends so much of her time with Sayuri, now that Sayuri has her own freedom and a place in the Nitta-okiyo? What are your thoughts on the danna system?
15. The American soldiers create a complete shift from a lot of the traditional and sacred feelings of geisha that have been written about previously. Sayuri begins to spend more time with both the general and Nobu, and balks at Nobu, as it would forever sever any possibility of being with the Chairman. What are your thoughts on the way Mameha stepped up again for Sayuri to Mother in terms of swaying her advances in the danna agreements? Do you think Sayuri made the right choice? What about the way this alters things with Nobu?
15. With everything that happens with Hatsumomo, do you feel that the "mean girl" title shifts to Sayuri and Mameha instead? Or do you feel like Hatsumomo got what was coming to her?
16. Nobu turns out to be a patron who was worth having, as he provides a safe location and a hard but doable job for Sayuri. She can't help but feel indebted to him, and yet she still pines for the Chairman. Do you think that the Chairman would have been as generous or as able to provide the same kind of opportunity for her? Do you start to feel like her fantasy of the Chairman is somewhat ungrateful? How do you think you would have coped with leaving a cushy, entertainment-filled life on the upper crust of society to having to work hard to survive and give all of that up? What occupation do you think you would have landed in?
Day 3: Chapters 16-2210. The sumo match itself feels secondary to Mameha’s intricate scheme to expose Sayuri to Nobu. What did you think of Sayuri's interactions with Nobu and the Chairman? What about the psychological burden placed on a such a young person, who is strategically forced to charm a powerful, deeply disfigured man like Nobu while secretly pinning her hopes on the Chairman?
It's a "job", albeit one I find... objectifying, so I'd hope she could separate herself some and enjoy Nobu's company, he does seem reasonably honorable, or at least more so than so many of the other men she's encountered. But she's so obsessed with the Chairman, that has to be exhausting. She's constantly put in situations where she's just close enough, yet out of her reach. That has to be difficult... and she's still soooo young. I think we sometimes forget that beneath all the elaborate schemes and expectations, she's really just a teenager trying to navigate an adult world.
11. Hatsumomo and Mameha both rely on wealthy male patrons to 'thrive' or is it 'survive'. Their fierce rivalry over Sayuri—specifically Hatsumomo spreading rumors about Sayuri’s virginity to destroy her financial value—shows how Gion’s rules force women to tear each other down to survive. This systemic sabotage isn't exclusive to geisha culture. What are your thoughts on this type of female-on-female competition, and where have you seen or experienced modern "gatekeeping" or sabotage in your own life or do other examples come to mind?
One of the saddest aspects of the novel is how the system encourages women to view each other as competitors rather than allies. Hatsumomo and Mameha aren't simply rivals by choice; they're operating within a structure where a woman's success depends on securing limited resources, attention, and patronage.
I think similar dynamics still exist today, though usually in less extreme forms. Workplaces, social groups, and online communities where people sometimes guard opportunities, information, or status rather than helping others succeed. Often the real problem isn't the individuals themselves but the system that makes people feel there isn't enough success to go around.
12. At the Baron's party, Mameha leaves Sayuri alone with a look that signals she expects her to endure whatever happens. Is Mameha sacrificing Sayuri’s safety to protect her own financial investments and social standing? Furthermore, the Baron undresses Sayuri to use her as a mannequin for an antique robe. Is this act a form of assault, or is that too strong a word? How does this moment redefine what "acceptable exploitation" looks like in Gion?
A "form" of assault. I think it's not strong enough. I would consider that entire exchange sexual assault. Full stop. Sayuri doesn't meaningfully consent to what's happening, and the massive power imbalance makes it impossible for her to freely object. She's young, dependent on the adults around her, and has been conditioned to prioritize pleasing powerful men. The fact that the Baron frames it as admiring an antique robe doesn't change what he's actually doing. What makes the scene even more disturbing is that those around her seem to accept it as something she simply has to endure.
I'm not sure on "redefines", because I think it was carefully cultivated to be that way, so much as exposes it. We all know it's not because it is acceptable, but because the culture normalizes violations of women's boundaries when powerful men are involved. Mameha may not have intended for things to go that far, but she still put Sayuri in a position where her safety was secondary to her value as an investment.
Day 3: Chapters 16-2210. The sumo match itself feels secondary to Mameha’s intricate scheme to expose Sayuri to Nobu. What did you think of Sayuri's interactions with Nobu and the Chairman? What about the psychological burden placed on a such a young person, who is strategically forced to charm a powerful, deeply disfigured man like Nobu while secretly pinning her hopes on the Chairman?
To teach this young girl to be a glorified escort is troubling. But that's the culture. The way people and Sayuri talk about Nobu makes me feel so bad for him. And her infatuation of the Chairman is a little sad and a little exhausting. To think that he is the reason she wanted to be a geisha. But Goals, I guess.
11. Hatsumomo and Mameha both rely on wealthy male patrons to 'thrive' or is it 'survive'. Their fierce rivalry over Sayuri—specifically Hatsumomo spreading rumors about Sayuri’s virginity to destroy her financial value—shows how Gion’s rules force women to tear each other down to survive. This systemic sabotage isn't exclusive to geisha culture. What are your thoughts on this type of female-on-female competition, and where have you seen or experienced modern "gatekeeping" or sabotage in your own life or do other examples come to mind?
Yeah surviving. But tell me again how it's not like prostitution? Although I guess Sugar Daddy is more apt. I don't think it's the rules that make Hatsumomo spread the lies about Sayuri, it's jealousy and competition. Nothing is making her do it, she's doing it out of spite. Which I believe is something that happens everywhere. Girls are petty and mean. I'm sure most of us have mean girl stories from high school.
12. At the Baron's party, Mameha leaves Sayuri alone with a look that signals she expects her to endure whatever happens. Is Mameha sacrificing Sayuri’s safety to protect her own financial investments and social standing? Furthermore, the Baron undresses Sayuri to use her as a mannequin for an antique robe. Is this act a form of assault, or is that too strong a word? How does this moment redefine what "acceptable exploitation" looks like in Gion?
I found that odd since Mameha was shopping around Sayuri's virginity. I thought for sure he was going to rape her but am glad (not really glad but can't think of a better word) it didn't go that far. Though it was definitely assault. I think in this culture anything goes for the highest bidder.
Nothing But Reading Challenges
Books mentioned in this topic
Geisha, a Life (other topics)Geisha, a Life (other topics)
A literary sensation and runaway bestseller, this brilliant novel presents with seamless authenticity and exquisite lyricism the true confessions of one of Japan's most celebrated geisha.
In "Memoirs of a Geisha," we enter a world where appearances are paramount; where a girl's virginity is auctioned to the highest bidder; where women are trained to beguile the most powerful men; and where love is scorned as illusion. It is a unique and triumphant work of fiction - at once romantic, erotic, suspenseful - and completely unforgettable.
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Nominator: Carrie
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