A Court of Thorns and Roses
discussion
What do we think about the ending with Rhysand? [Spoilers]
@Mirou I feel that Tamlin did make Feyre strong. She had to overcome her prejudices in order to love/save him. I agree that Rhys is a complex character. Maybe "bad boy" was the wrong term for it. The mystery behind his motives intrigues me. He's suffered but I'm still not sold on him as a love interest for Feyre. I'm definitely excited to see if the next book changes that.
I get he was trying to protect Feyre while they were at court but why make Tamlin and Lucien grovel when Amarantha wasn't even present? That really bugged me!
Lauren wrote: "@Mirou I feel that Tamlin did make Feyre strong. She had to overcome her prejudices in order to love/save him. I agree that Rhys is a complex character. Maybe "bad boy" was the wrong term for..."
You are right to notice that. He is definitely mean, we can't argue that.
I remember a comment of SJM, she said : "But you’re going to start off by calling in that bargain you made. And you’re going to have to fight to keep all your secrets hidden once you do." Which proves the fact that Rhys may continue to act like that and suprises us at the same time.
Any ideas of those secrets ?
@laura their must be a history there that even predates Amarantha. It would be interesting if Tamlin isn't 100% the "good guy". Maas has a gift for complex characters so it wouldn't surprise me.
I'm curious about Rhys too. I assume that Rhys and Tam were friends before Rhysand's family killed Tamlin's
@melanie I think that was indeed mentioned in the book. maybe they both were "bad boys" or something.. im interested in learning more about their past
@lauraI didn't see rhys show otherwise. his biggest motive for him to help feyre was so he could get his powers back and his court would be freed. even then he made her sell herself. how is that heroic?
Gabrielle - Four's ma bae wrote: "Stéphanie wrote: "@melanie I think that was indeed mentioned in the book. maybe they both were "bad boys" or something.. im interested in learning more about their past"I think Maas will try and ..."
Ohh, excellent point. I remember Rhys saying that Tamlin was the leader of a group of warrior and they were doing awful things!
I actually don't see Rhys as a bad boy. He's a strong leader who made terrible sacrifices to portect his court. That's no different from Tamlin, except Tamlin did it more with stoic composure than jestful cunning. But in essence, both did what they had toI agree completely. There's a lot of similarities with Tamlin and Rhysand actually. I wonder when Feyre will see them.
There is a place in SJM's Pinterest called "The Prison" and I think it's some kind of Tartarus in the Night Court. What do you think?
Yes, I was thinking the same thing. I also wondered if Rhysand will get thrown into prison when he returns. Someone had to rule in his absence the past 50 years. Maybe they won't be quick to give it up. Maybe Rhys will return and his people will be loyal to the new leader.
I could be way off here I just feel like someone is getting thrown in that prison. lol And I didn't think it would be Feyre.
See I thought there was a lack of world building I mean i was so bored with most of the book because I expected there to be a lot more fighting and action throughout the book not just at the end
I would have liked for Tamlin and Lucien to train Feyre at the estate. I was also a bit bored with her routine there. It would have been nice for some training sessions. Feyre is a good hunter; she's not helpless, but she's not experienced enough to take on most of the Fae. So why not train her a bit? I think that would have given us some great scenes, and take away some of the boredom.
About Tamlin and Rhysand.I get the impression Rhysand was the one who trained Tamlin. They could have had a mentor/trainee relationship. Basing how they act around each other now, I'm assuming this was a LONG time ago.
Maybe there was a point when Night and Spring were allies--something happened, and Rhysand's father killed Tamlin's.
I also agree that Tamlin was probably a very good solider and a killing machine. But maybe seeing what his father did softened him a lot.
"Maybe if he'd bothered to learn a thing or two about cruelty, about what it means to be a true High Lord, it would have kept the Spring Court from falling."
I do wonder what Rhysand thinks Tamlin could have done to avoid the Spring Court falling.
Just wanted to add, in regards to people saying Rhys did not make any sacrifices for Feyre, in the scene where he kisses her (after Tamlin has smudged her paint) Feyre remarks that "something sparked in the Queen's eyes as she looked at Rhysand." Later that night Rhys comes to Feyre's cell and says Amarantha made him serve in her bed. I think he knew full well that might be her (jealous) reaction to seeing him kiss Feyre and I can't help but think of that as a huge sacrifice.
@Gabrielle: You're so right about them not really acting their age, lol.
Do you think it was Tamlins fault that his father had to be killedI have no idea, honestly. There's so many possible reasons.
As far as age, I wonder if Sarah would tell us. I'm assuming hundreds of years. Maybe Rhysand is 1,000+ or something crazy like that. :P
In fairness, while Tamlin's comment was poor taste, I think it was a silly reason for him to be cursed. I was personally hoping for it to be more like the original, where the beast's nastiness got him in trouble--because then he had to undergo character development to break it. Not..the beast making a snide comment and refusing to be a lover. lmaoI liked how the curse in the original taught the beast something. I didn't feel like, the circumstances around Tamlin's curse, really allowed him to learn from it. Just to be what, sorry he made that comment? That's not really enough character development for me.
WinterRose wrote: "In fairness, while Tamlin's comment was poor taste, I think it was a silly reason for him to be cursed. I was personally hoping for it to be more like the original, where the beast's nastiness got ..."You are right. Now that you pointed it, I was also expecting something bigger. But, like @Gabrielle said earlier, there must be something else why the former queen was intrested in Tamlin. Maybe, in his true nature, he is actually wicked.
I saw some pictures of the Summer Court on SJM pinterest.
Remember when Rhys was ordered to kill the High Lord of the Summer Court ? He did read in his mind so I was thinking : What if Rhys found an intresting information about the Summer Court to use ? What I'm trying to say, is that I think that we will learn about this court through Rhys. What do you think ?
Laura wrote: "Sasa wrote: "Just wanted to add, in regards to people saying Rhys did not make any sacrifices for Feyre, in the scene where he kisses her (after Tamlin has smudged her paint) Feyre remarks that "so..."Plus, I don't think he will have problems to restort his authority in his court. He stills a High Lord and the deadliest of them all
there must be something else why the former queen was intrested in Tamlin.I hope so, ironically. lol But it could just be that Amarantha wasn't a very complex villain. :/
Yes, I definitely think Rhysand withheld information regarding the Summer Court. I'm sure we'll learn more about it book 2 or 3. :D
For anyone's interest..looking at this interview:Hi Sarah, Rhys here. Lyra is forcing me to ask... Maybe you could give the readers a hint of what's in store for me in the coming books....?
"Many things. Awesome things. Terrible things. But you’re going to start off by calling in that bargain you made. And you’re going to have to fight to keep all your secrets hidden once you do."
Notice she says "you're going to have to START OFF" which means we will in fact see Feyre's first trip to the Night Court. Which also means he waited a few months, since book 2 takes place a few months after book 1. I expect he waited to get some affairs in order?
@WinterRose: Thanks for posting! I cannot wait to uncover Rhys' secrets. Why does it have to be sooooooo long until the next book? I think Rhys is going to be very freaked out Feyre might potentially get under his skin and figure out his secrets. So exciting!
Off topic, but has anyone else seen all these new (and fine looking) characters Sarah has been posting on her pinterest?Cassian<<< yummy!
Oh yeah, you mean those pictures ?https://www.pinterest.com/pin/2468536...
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/2468536...
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/2468536...
Definitely yummy.
I just never completely bought that Amarantha was so hell-bent on Tamlin being her lover that his treatment and curse was because he didn't want to sleep with her.There has to be more to it then that.
Also - as @Winterrose pointed out perhaps Tamlin and Rhysand had a mentor/trainee relationship. Which I think is certainly a possibility. There's very little given to us the readers about the specifics in regards to their relationship.
Can't help but point out - comic book rule. Tamlin's mother is never specifically mentioned that she is dead like his father and brother's were. So can't rule her out. Perhaps there will be an interesting story there if she is still alive.
I wonder if any of Rhysand's family is still alive. It would be great if we got to see Tamlin's mom, should she still be around. In general, I get the feeling there's a lot we haven#t seen yet.Also, Amarantha had no trouble forcing Rhysand into her bed. If she was so intent on having Tamlin, why was she waiting for Tamlin to give in?
@Sasa I agree. There's a lot of background I'm dying to know about; especially in regards to the courts and inter-relationships between them. Perhaps it was the conquest of it for Amarantha?
@Felicia If so, that was one hell of a conquest and doomed in any case. Gah, I need the next book right now.
@Sasa oh I agree. But I figured it was the thrill of having someone deny her, and trying to win them over against their will. Break them as @Laura has mentioned. I think it's complicated. But I would also wager there is simply far more going on then Amarantha simply wanting to have sex with Tamlin.
Felicia wrote: "I just never completely bought that Amarantha was so hell-bent on Tamlin being her lover that his treatment and curse was because he didn't want to sleep with her.There has to be more to it then that. "
I feel like there's more to it, or she was just a very flatly written villain. :/ I'm honestly not sure which is the case. I still think the reason he was cursed was pretty stupid. I'd rather him have been a huge asshole that deserved a little punishment like the original. :P I'm still bitter about this. lol
@ Laura I agree. I mean, why bother with Tamlin when you have Rhysand? lol I do wonder if it was a pride thing. Perhaps she had little experience with being denied. But I still think what she did was extreme and silly.
@WinterRose, @Laura, @Felicia, I agree with you. It's not SJM's style to write such a silly reason. I think we will be surprise.Off topic, I was thinking about something : What if Tamlin sends Lucien (Or Someone else) with Feyre during her week in the Night Court ?
Their bargain didn't specify if Feyre can bring someone with her or not.
Again : What if Lucien's love interest is in the Night Court ? Haha, everyone is excited about Nesta (including me) but that would be the best twist ever.
OmG i just realised that head in the garden thet feyre found? He was night court. Amarantha made rhys kill one of his subjects:(
@ Mirou. I've thought of that too. I figured either Lucien or even Tamlin would go with Feyre at least once. The bargain said Feyre had to go--it didn't say she had to go alone.
Rhys never specified the terms of the agreement, but I don't know if he'll want Lucien and/or Tamlin at the Night Court.
Rhys never specified the terms of the agreement, but I don't know if he'll want Lucien and/or Tamlin at the Night Court.
I don't think he will either. But I definitely think Lucien and/or Tamlin will try.I can't remember if I mentioned it here, but I noticed a lot of pictures of a prison, which is related to book two, on Sarah's board. Any theories there?
Sarah just pinned this: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/2468536...
Feyre with wings? Is she going to be able to shift, like Tamlin and Rhysand?
@Laura She and Rhys could fly together. He could teach her how to fly!
@Laura I do not know how to pass this excruciating wait! One year is way too long when my emotions are so invested in this. Sarah's Pinterest makes me lose my mind.
I check her Pinterest daily too! We should form a group for ACOTAR Pinterest addicts.
Sasa wrote: "@Laura She and Rhys could fly together. He could teach her how to fly!"Be still my heart!
BTW, for anyone interested, I'm a member of a group called The Booklings, where we've been discussing theories on this and other books. :D I'm not sure how many groups you're members of, but if you want to join another, we'd be happy to have you! :D
haha hope I'm not too late to add in.Anyways I think that Tamlin and Feyre couldn't possibly stop loving each other after all they've done for each other. Tamlin has already chosen her, remember Fire Night? And the point of the book was Feyre's love saving for Tamlin; how could anyone possible think she would love another? If so then the plot of ACOTAR would be pointless...
The look on Rhysand's face: I have no idea but I was like "What? What did you see?! AHH" It was just so provoking I had to search it up. Maybe something about the combined power of the High Lords but most likely not since immortality has been bestowed on others before and they would take note of any special power. Maybe Feyre evoked that was something similar to someone significant in his memory? I have no idea! I want to know ugh. As for Feyre and Rhys, I think a bit of flirtation from the latter but I bet something will be going on between Nesta and Rhysand especially with the mind wall and the mind control 'powers' respectively. Nesta will be a hard character to soften though.
Six books? For each of the courts? Or is it three? I think it's three.
I'll bet all the things with the High King is going full throttle now.
I didn't really like the ending of ACOTAR. I feel like Feyre ended very broken and I wished she'd at least begun to heal with Tamlin instead of leaving her so sad like that. It left me a little down at what I felt she lost.
On a good note, I quite enjoyed Fire Night, and ACOTAR overall. Something wild and passionate was going on and I hope Sarah J. Maas continues her work with the same fire as all her books possess.
Whoops, this is a bit like a review, right?
@Laura That would be so awesome if she turned out to have Night Court magic. Maybe that's what Rhys realized at the end? Though I doubt he'd be so shocked at that.@Clary I don't think it would cheapen it if the fell out of love. Feyre has gone through a huge transformation, and so has Tamlin now that he's freed from the curse. They may develop in different directions now, and there's nothing cheap about that to me. But I do agree, it was heartbreaking to see her so broken. The things she got dragged into were horrible.
But I don't get it. If she has wings, does that mean that she is a high lord ? Rhys and Lucien said that only the high lords of the courts can shift so that means that she is somehow special ?
how could anyone possible think she would love another?The same way people remarry after divorce. :P I think assuming Feyre could never love another is unrealistic. It's not really fair to her--or Tamlin--to not allow them to move on if they wish to. (Also, there's probably a good chance Feyre is NOT Tamlin's first love and if he can love more then once, why not her?)
Having said that, I don't think Feyre would necessarily stop loving Tamlin if this happened. She very well could simply struggle connecting with him now that she's gone through such a transformation. And rather, (using Rhysand as an example) find herself connecting more with Rhysand and developing a new love. Not more or less than her love for Tamlin, just different, and what she needs now.
We do have to consider that, as you guys pointed out, Feyre is pretty broken at the end. She's not the same girl she was before--physically, mentally, emotionally. This may bring she and Tamlin closer, or it may drive them apart.
I've mentioned it before, but I don't think it's crazy to assume characters can fall in love more than once. To use one of my favorite quotes from Teen Wolf, which addresses this:
"Sweetheart, let me tell you something no teenager ever believes, but I guarantee you is the absolute truth. You fall in love more than once. It will happen again. It will be just as amazing and extraordinary as the first time and maybe just as painful. But it’ll happen again. I promise."
(Mama McCall for the win!)
Can a High Lady be a solo Lady? Like, rule the land and be able to shift or are they just consorts? When you marry a High Lord, does that mean you can shift? All good questions. :D
A big theme with Hades/Persephone is that they get married. I wonder if marriage will be a plot element in book 2.
I wonder if whatever Rhysand did to Feyre with that tattoo (because I don't think that was a mark for their bargain; I think he gave that excuse to get the tattoo on her) allows them to share powers. Maybe she can have wings because he does.
I forget if I mentioned this here, but I watched a video where Maas was asked which Hogwarts houses the characters would be in. Unshockingly, Tamlin was Gryffindor and Rhysand was Slytherin.What DID shock me was that Maas didn't hesitate with Feyre and said she'd be Slytherin, too. She was hella brave in ACOTAR, so much that I'd peg her for Gryffindor. I'm curious what made Maas not even hesitate and go with Slytherin.
Perhaps Fae Feyre will indeed be different than Human Feyre.
@winterrose im actually not surprised. feyre might be brave, but she would not care for the greater good,,only that she and her family will survive. being gryffindor means I think more than just being brave. also you can be slytherin and still be very brave I think.
I agree @Stéphanie. I googled Slytherin and it says that is often home to students who are ambitious, shrewd, cunning and who tend to become strong leaders. So, I'm not so surprised that Feyre is a Slytherin, I'm pretty sure we will see her grow into someone important in the Fae society
I LOVE Rhysand! I'm the short while he was in the book he was able to turn my head around. Everything about him his dark and alluring. The Night Court seems to me like a dreamlike place. It's all mystery and beauty and darkness. And omg I love Rhysand so much it hurts!
Laura wrote: "I'm following her Pinterest board and I check it everyday. At the same time I wanna calm down cause there's still one year to go until I can read book 2, but her Pinterest and the little spoilers k..."NEW TOPIC : If you want to discuss Pinterest's pictures, check this : https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
@Laura. . . thank you! I thought the same thing when reading that part. I think we will have to wait and see what twists and turns will be in the second book. Seriously can we have it now?! *makes grabby hands*
@Winterrose Oh I certainly agree. It was overly extreme and silly. But in comparison to the other character development in the book I tend to lean towards the possibility of there is more at play that we will not be privvy to until the second installment.
@Mirou Well this is fae that we're dealing with so it would be of no surprise if the conditions of the bargain are twisted and Tamlin and Lucien go with Feyre. Especially since it is never specified that it has to be JUST Feyre. I'm hoping we'll see a little more of the wiley Fae that are commonplace in folklore.
@Josa Do we know that it was Rhysand who actually killed the person that was found in the fountain?
@Laura That's an excellent point! Rhys doesn't seem like the kind of person who would want anyone to hold power of him. Think about the disdain in which he explains why he has been sleeping with Amarantha. Not only that but perhaps that is why at the end of the book he gets all wide eyed.
all discussions on this book
|
post a new topic
I don't know if Rhysand even..."
That was very well said!
I agree with you that Ryshand is not a real "bad boy", he is complex and wildly misunderstood. There is real pain in his past.
I can see how a love triangle would develop in the later books since his relationship with Feyre is not "friendly". That dynamic would be really interesting to read about.
Personally I'm really curious about what was on Feyre's face in the end that made him look at her with such surprise. That was never answered. (or if it was I didn't pick up on it).