A Court of Thorns and Roses
discussion
What do we think about the ending with Rhysand? [Spoilers]
They're being illogical because they have to downplay Rhys to justify why Tamlin is such a "better choice" than he is. The amount of hate Rhys gets on social media, not just here, is disgusting. Especially because most of their reasons only scratch the surface of his exterior, they don't try/ want to understand the kind of character he is because they are all so blinded by Tamlin. This is probably gonna be like Rowan all over again -_-
I would also like to point out that it was pretty selfish of Tamlin to bring Feyre to Prythian to break the curse. Sure, her life wasn't great but it was still hers. Then he let her go instead of freeing his people from the curse. Really, Tamlin has always been about protecting his own feelings.
Kristin wrote: "I would also like to point out that it was pretty selfish of Tamlin to bring Feyre to Prythian to break the curse. Sure, her life wasn't great but it was still hers. Then he let her go instead of f..."Good point.
I agree totally Laura. I have no idea how anyone can see Rhysand's actions as selfish, but I guess people see what they want to see. As a High Lord, he obviously puts his court first, and did whatever he thought would be in their best interest. Even if it meant playing a role he most definitely did not want to play. The good thing is I see far more positive Rhys comments than negative. But some of the negative ones make me wonder if we read the same book, lol. It's clear some people just don't even come close to grasping Rhys's character. Not that I'm an expert or anything, but I thought it was pretty clear Rhys was playing a role, and having Feyre play a role, to defeat Amarantha. But what do I know. :P
On Tamlin...I don't really think he was selfish to bring Feyre to his court. If the curse merely effected JUST him, then yes. But it effected his entire court. He needed her to free them as well as himself. With Tam and Rhys being high lord's, Amarantha holding power over them results not only in them losing personal freedom, but losing their courts and the freedom of other's. They were both in the same boat, to some degree.
But Tamlin should have never sent Feyre away. So yes, I agree he let his own personal feelings get in the way of more pressing matters. Not to sound harsh, but Feyre being captured and dying is not as bad (in the grand scheme of things) as Tamlin not breaking the curse and thus Amarantha having control over all the high lord's. For the sake of the world, Tamlin needed to keep Feyre there those three days and risk the danger of her life. He was the last chance, the only person capable of beating her since at that point she didn't control him.
I completely agree--there's a difference in a character and a love interest. I love characters that have goals, missions, plans, etc. Not one's that are just there to be a love interest and cheerleader for the main character. Some people think a guy putting the girl in front of his other priorities is romantic, but I think just the opposite when said guy is a king of sorts. Rhysand and Tamlin...neither one should ever put Feyre (or anyone) before their court. That's the cost and sacrifice of being a true leader and ruler. You HAVE to put your people first. Always. And I for one respect the characters that do.
I hate that we don't have any teasers or early chapter releases of ACOMAF yet. It makes me wonder exactly what happens for them to be so locked down on it. All of Maas's other books, including Queen of Shadows and ACOTAR, released chapters early MONTHS before the book released. So I don't get it.
edit: Just saw this on Twitter for ACOMAF, a teaser/quote.
"To the stars who listen--and the dreams that answered."
So I bumped into another quote that caught my attention:“I risked my neck for you during your task. Was that not enough?” His metal eye whirred softly.
“You offered up your name for me—after all that I said to you, all I did, you still offered up your
name. Didn’t you realize I would help you after that? Oath or no oath?”
I hadn’t realized it would mean anything to him at all. “I had no other choice,” I said again,
breathing hard.
“Don’t you understand what Rhys is?”
“I do!” I barked, then sighed. “I do,” I repeated, and glared at the eye in my palm.
The "is" when Lucien asks this question is in italics. This reminded me of when Rhysand was talking to Feyre about Tamlin and Lucien at breakfast. There seems to be a significant meaning there. Obviously he's a high lord and part of the night court but I don't think that's what Lucien meant. Maybe he was talking about his beast form? Bloodline? Idk it just stood out to me.
As for the stars and dreams-- I knew it! I think with the images on Sarah's pinterest it seems like Feyre will have a close relationship with the stars.
It is an odd phrase. You'd think he'd say "Don't you understand WHO (or is it whom? lol) Rhys is?" Not WHAT Rhys is. A "what" is a thing more than a person. Very well could refer to his beast form.
It's who because it's "he" I believe. And exactly. Plus I realized why it threw me off. The "is" is pronounced because it's meant to add horror/terror to the question. Also it makes you wonder why exactly they thought that Rhysand would flay Feyre alive if she didn't finish those chores. The guy really has a reputation of glory lol. Can't wait.New theory! So I really think that Lucien will go back to his roots. I find it odd that the first fae to offer the immortal gift to Feyre was Lucien's father of all people. Nobody asked, he took pity. And since we know that the autumn court is brutal, maybe Feyre will be the change in the way they see humans? Or at least in the way that Lucien is perceived? Especially if we are going by the theory that Nesta could be with Lucien (she better do something to deserve him), then it makes sense. The flames on her drawer, the mention of the fact that she is so queen like. Everything about her is very similar to what the autumn court wants. We get these phrases all the time that she's born to rule and such. And for Lucien to achieve development I don't see that happening with him always being an emissary. The curse lifted now gives him options.
Another detail that supports that theory is that Lucien's brothers will be killed most likely. By Tamlin or Lucien, doesn't matter. They will get in the way because they want Lucien dead on principal, especially the oldest one. But so does Tamlin. And they are just too ambitious and cruel to stop.
Ok I apologize for all the bipolar posts but I just finished re-reading and my mind is on a roll. Something else that caught my eye is this little snippet.Then there had been meetings in the frenzied throne room—quick, tense meetings with the High
Lords Tamlin was allied with to sort out next steps; then with Lucien and some Spring Court High Fae
who introduced themselves as Tamlin’s sentries. But every word, every breath was too loud, every
smell too strong, the light too bright. Keeping still throughout it all was easier than moving, than
adjusting to the strange, strong body that was now mine. I couldn’t even touch my hair without the
slight difference in my fingers jarring me.
On and on, until every newly heightened sense was chafing and raw, and Tamlin at last noticed my
dull eyes, my silence, and took my arm.
Notice the Tamlin at last noticed my dull eyes, silence,etc. It's interesting because this happened right after we get the bond with Rhys. And I don't think that phrase is thrown coincidentally. It shows that Tamlin is disconnected with her and not just bond wise. The girl just became fae Tamlin! It would makes sense that she would be having technical and emotional issues. Rhysand would have noticed.
I actually think that Rhys's beast form is dragon.
In the interview, where the characters are asked some questions, Lucien mentioned something is already happening. Does he mean the upcoming conflict with Hybern or the bond between Rhys and Feyre?
@MelanieI was actually wondering why Lucien said that. What doesnhe mean?!
Can you guys give a link to that interview with the characters, please?
Natalia wrote: "Can you guys give a link to that interview with the characters, please?"Here's the link, Nat: http://queenofthebookshelves.blogspot...
Thanks :) *goes to read*
I just read Feyre's answer : " As for what I’d like to improve… It’s been suggested that I practice my male nudes."Bahahaha)) That makes the two of us, Feyre.
OH MY GODThank you for this! Courtesy of Melanie- new ACOMAF teaser featuring our faves. ;)
Looks like Rhys definitely decides to crash the wedding! ;D
Also- very interesting to notice that Feyre was basically at the altar WANTING to say No. I MEAN- WOW. That is super intriguing.
I love, LOVE- how Rhysand's presence in this moment acts as the affirmation to Feyre's heart's true desire. I love it.
Poor Feyre. When do you think this is happening?
Probably the wedding
Just saw Aqsa's edit! The app didn't update quick enough DxSo she didn't wanna get married and Rhys basically saved her. Interesting *_*
GAH, I can't read it! My phone won't open the link! I'm going to have to wait until I get off from volunteering to see the teaser. I might die in the meantime -_-
Hmm, she didn't want to get married? Interesting... I didn't expect this, honestly, but it looks like she really was working up the nerve to say "no". So Rhys basically saved her.
Kelly wrote: "GAH, I can't read it! My phone won't open the link! I'm going to have to wait until I get off from volunteering to see the teaser. I might die in the meantime -_-"Here you go, Kelly. :)
Good. I was not good. I was nothing, and my soul, my eternal soul, was damned--
I tried to get my traitorous lungs to draw air so I could voice the word. No--no.
But I didn't have to say it.
Thunder cracked behind me, as if two boulders had been hurled against each other.
People screamed, falling back, a few vanishing outright as darkness erupted.
I whirled, and through the night drifting away like smoke on a wind, I found Rhysand straightening the lapels of his black jacket.
"Hello, Feyre, darling," he purred.
Haha. This is hilarious. I thought Rhys would kidnap an angry Feyre but it turns out to be just the opposite.Maybe someone is asking if she is 'good' in the sense that she wants to marry Tamlin and looks worried on the altar.
Oh, and is it just Rhys or is the marriage at nighttime? Through the 'night drifting away like smoke on a wind' portion make me think so.
@CatcherR Right! We all speculated that she would be upset about his presence- but it seems it really is the opposite. He saves her. I wonder if her physical reaction after seeing him is taking a breath of relief?I think the "good" part might be something that is part of the vows, perhaps? Or something Tamlin says about Feyre in the vows etc and she denies it.
For those of you interested! The full jacket of the book was released and there is a different summary at the back, again.
"She must surrender her heart." That's rather interesting.
Also- "Confront her past," -What is this alluding to?? What happened under the mountain, or, Feyre's past as a child etc? I mean what happened under the mountain couldn't have been more than a few months old and it would seem weird referring to that as "past". Maybe Feyre has some Fae past that this sentence refers to? Thoughts?
Also- you can see the full Feyre model too, right below the ACOMAF teaser in the bottom right corner.
Isn't is interesting that Feyre is wearing a crown?? Also, are those feathers depicted in the crown? IM SO INTRIGUED.
"As Feyre is drawn ever deeper into Rhysand's dark web of politics and PASSION".Somehow, I don't think "passion" refers to the dealings in the Night Court. IMO it refers to the personal chemistry between them.
Or maybe the scene is from a part of some weird wedding ceremony for high fae? It's at night so it seems a little ritualistic--maybe even like Calanmai. And because Feyre (might be) mated with Rhys, it makes the 'ceremony' a little crazy.
You know what guys? At the end of the first book, she is so broken down that when she meets Rhysand she's pretty out of it. And so when she voices the question of when he'll take her to the night court, she says thankfully that sounded colder. The first time I read it I truly didn't see just how broken she is. And I think that the goodness part comes from Tamlin, who oblivious as always, will say something like it. And it's cause her to panic. Feyre is prone to those attacks (when she felt like she was going to leave her body and the walls closing in on her in her cell). But it doesn't mean that she'll be nice to Rhys. I think she'll be so tired of it all and that the night court will be a nice respite. Btw I LOVE Rhys being a dragon theory! Something graceful and really good at the hunt. Thanks for the snippet Melanie and Aqsa! The crown confirms our theories most likely: she'll find her place and rule at the night court. She's no longer bright and full of color like Tamlin. :( She desperately needs to find some balance and Rhysand would know how to do that more than anyone.
Thank you so much for typing it, Aqsa! You literally saved me from about 4 hours of torture waiting to read that - my phone was being stupid! <3Oh my goodness, I think I squealed when I read this lol. I'm guessing the "good" portion has to do with something being said during the wedding ceremony (either the vow or something Tam says about her). If she is about to say "no" at her wedding, I'm reallyyy interested to see the lead up to this point. Just how broken has their relationship become? Has Tamlin been pushing the wedding more than Feyre and she was just going with the motions? SJM has definitely taken a different direction since most of us were expecting her to be upset.
Also, I think it's insinuated that the wedding is happening during the day? My impression was that when Rhys appears, he sweeps in a wave of night that "erupts" and immediately blocks everyone from view. (Almost like he blinds them temporarily.) Then he relents a bit and it "drifts away like smoke on the wind." (Also, can we take a moment and appreciate how cool that ability is? Think of how much damage that could do on a battlefield? He could blind all of his enemies. Sounds like he'll be downright terrifying with his full powers back.)
I'm wondering how Feyre will react to his entrance right after this? She could show her relief, but Feyre also tends to try to hide her feelings, so maybe she'll try to resist him too? Man, I wish we had a larger excerpt. What do you guys think her reaction will be right after this part? (I can't imagine Tamlin will be very pleased, to say the least haha.)
I wonder if Rhys felt her panic and her inability to say "no" when she wanted to (because of the tattoo) and that's why he chose that moment of all the rest to whisk her away, because it was that profound and she felt that helpless.
Maybe its some weird kidnap-the-bride custom. Or maybe a spontaneous secret wedding. In the character interview, it seems as if Tamlin and Lucien are in on some secret. Kidnap-the-bride customs are very ancient greek, which would relate to to the overall greek persephone-and-hades theme.
I have a feeling that the wedding will be a little more on the interesting side of the spectrum.
Oh, and did anyone find it funny that the fae disappeared fell back and disappeared when Rhys came along?
They just poofed away.
I agree with Kelly that the darkness comes from Rhys. And I doubt the spring court does their weddings at night. And I think possibly why Feyre didn't say no to the wedding right off the bat is because she wants to please Tamlin. Remember after the curse lifted, Feyre wanted to say sorry to Tamlin. There is no logic behind it other than her own pain. So she's going through with this wedding for Tamlin and not herself. And seeing that Tamlin is very preoccupied with court business and doesn't sense her moods often, it'll be easy for her to go through the motions. But at the vows that's when she truly sees what she's about to do and freezes up. Considering how connected she is to Rhys I'm sure he sensed that hesitation and made his entrance so forceful.
"She must surrender her heart to heal a world torn in two."I think this is either referring to the division between the humans and fae or between the Courts. I'm leaning towards the former though.
And also I've been waiting for weeks for this excerpt, and it was everything I was hoping for. My only wish was that it was longer.
And I also get a deep satisfaction seeing this discussion board blow up after every teaser.
Yeah I think that it'll be fae vs humans for Feyre. I don't think it'll take her long to switch to the night court.
Why does everything happen when I'm gone all day?!!?Sorry I'm just now jumping in.
*off to read posts*
I love the teaser, but it's just another reminder of how long we have to wait until the book comes out (and I'm not letting myself reading any other books until I've finished the one I'm writing lol). I cannot wait to see how the tattoo plays out when Feyre is back in the Spring Court. Especially the eye. If that's Rhys' sort of "portal" into seeing her life from afar, then do you think that gives him the ability to sort of mess with her when she's with Tamlin? Imagine they're kissing, or getting ready to make love and Rhys is pulling at her from afar. I can't wait to see how that plays out!
I want a really twisty, dark, passionate story between these two. That way when they finally get together it's like a chorus singing lol.
Wow! Did NOT expect Feyre to feel this way. Now, granted, we're reading this out of context. Here's my thoughts.Good. I was not good.
To me, this sounds like two things:
Either 1) Feyre was just asked how she was doing (after the wedding) or some question and her response was "good." Then when she thought about it...we get the "Good. I was not good" bit. But that doesn't explain why the word "no" was forming in her mind. Which leads me to 2) this is during the ceremony and the word "good" popped up on the vows, where Feyre is prompted to respond with "I do" and instead, "no" is coming to mind instead.
Now the big question here is....why? If she doesn't want to marry Tamlin, why not? We know she loves him. Maybe she doesn't feel worthy of a HEA or love anymore?
There's a possibility Rhys's timing has to do with him feeling Feyre's reluctance, but I think it could possibly be the fact that he realized they were mates at the end of ACOTAR and waited until he could no longer avoid it any longer. Rhys could also have different reactions to the mate thing. He could very well try to avoid it and not want it. Or, he could be the type of Fae that feels blessed and be all "finding your mate is rare there's no way I'm letting you go, Feyre." I don't know, personally, which route he'll take. The second sounds very Hades. But I can also see Rhys letting Feyre figure it out on her own and trying to avoid it because he thinks either a) the mate bond just makes you weak or b) it's just another way for him to lose something.
Speaking of that interview. Feyre seems happy, and Lucien makes plenty of comments about Feyre and Tamlin being basically in that puppy love phase. I wonder what changes between that, and this teaser? Again, assuming this "no" that's forming in Feyre's mind is related to the wedding. Maybe it's not at all, but considering there are people in this scene and we know Rhys shows up on the wedding day, I think it's safe to assume this scene is either before or after the ceremony.
I can't help but think that it is the vows moment where Feyre has to say something- I dont know why but for her to say that "she didnt even have to say the word because Rhys appeared" makes it seem like her giving a reply was a big deal and was probably something huge saying in front of all the guests etc. PLUS- it would just make Rhys' entrance that much more amazing lol because he literally appears just before she gets to say anything and seal the deal on the marriage lmao.
I definitely think she'll be annoyed but deep down she will be thankful, as Laura said earlier, despite what Rhys says to her on the balcony of her not thanking him when he takes her away.
I think she might be grateful that leaving would give her a chance to think this through. And she might even thank Rhys.
Feyre's self worth took a huge nose dive. It could be that she doesn't think she deserves him. But I get the feeling that she's shut inside herself. She's suffering from major PTSD. And this is why she told Rhys. Who better knows trauma and suffering? The teasers we got earlier are a lot more positive, they sound more like Feyre. So yes, she will be thankful to Rhys for taking her to the night court. Even if she doesn't tell him. As for the interview, I think Sarah didn't really make it in context with the situation exactly. It was just supposed to be a modern interview for fans-- the characters sounded differently is a tip.
Laura wrote: "That scene is definitely during the wedding. Probably when it's her time to say yes or no to Tamlin and... She's about to say no. Yay! It seems my prediction was correct - Feyre doesn't want to get..."I assume part of the reason she didn't say no earlier is because she was confused about her feelings. She doesn't really know how to feel right now after taking the lives of the two fae. She knows that she's supposed to love Tamlin and that they are expected to be together. She probably convinced herself that she would feel differently afterwards or when she felt better emotionally. She might not have realized how she truly felt until she was right there at the altar. Also, it may have been a case of having nowhere else to go. As a savior of sorts, she may be welcomed at most, if not all, courts but would she really stay at any other court other than Spring without knowing any of the other high lords very well? If she ruined her relationship with Tamlin then she might think she'd have nowhere to go. I'm sure in the beginning the Night Court doesn't seem like the most appealing place.
Laura wrote: "Vinnie wrote: "I wonder if Rhys felt her panic and her inability to say "no" when she wanted to (because of the tattoo) and that's why he chose that moment of all the rest to whisk her away, becaus..."Good point. And there are only two reasons why he would crash the wedding. The first one would be to piss of Tamlin which makes no sense since he doesn't want a fight. The second more obvious is the mate bond. Which as discussed would make sense psychologically with him waiting until the last minute.
It's hilarious, really. I had a feeling Rhys showing up and taking Feyre away in secret would cause a lot of problems. (I mean, if the person you were going to marry just disappeared, wouldn't you flip out a bit? lol) But Rhys showing up in front of Tamlin allows Tam to know where Feyre is going--and doing it in front of witnesses ensures Tamlin to not go into a rage. After all, the bargain is for Feyre to go with Rhys of any week of HIS choosing. I'm not sure if there's some literal magical binding there--like Feyre couldn't just say no, but would basically be forced to go. Like her body was yanked toward Rhys on it's own accord because of the bargain. Here's another interesting thing to think about. What the heck does everyone else who witnessed events under the mountain think? Those that were there saw Feyre being used as Rhysand's play thing, sure. That's not a big deal to the Fae for a high lord to "have fun" with a human if they want.
But what about after the third task? When Amarantha attacked Feyre and Rhysand SHOUTED her name several times. And in Feyre's words, as though he cared? Then proceeded to yank out that ash arrow from Tamlin and attack Amarantha? Then there's Feyre, begging Amarantha to stop hurting Rhys? Literally everyone else just watched all this happening lol. I'm curious what they'll make of it.
I'm just going to leave this here: PTSD may experience:Behavioral: agitation, irritability, hostility, hypervigilance, self-destructive behavior, or social isolation
Psychological: flashback, fear, severe anxiety, or mistrust
Mood: inability to feel pleasure, guilt, or loneliness
Sleep: insomnia or nightmares
Also common: emotional detachment or unwanted thoughts
I definitely think Feyre will have some degree of PTSD. We kind of see something happening to her in her cell, when she thinks the walls are closing in. It reminds me of panic attacks too, actually.
WinterRose wrote: "It's hilarious, really. I had a feeling Rhys showing up and taking Feyre away in secret would cause a lot of problems. (I mean, if the person you were going to marry just disappeared, wouldn't you ..."Remember she went to see Rhys at the balcony because she felt that invisible string at her stomach summoning her? That could be one way. Also I'm curious about what others think too! Rhys will certainly get a lot of crap from a lot of fae. But I think with what he did there will be redemption with others. But the spring court fae obviously wouldn't be fans. An interesting note on PTSD is that victims sometimes can't be around those people who remind them of the trauma. Since Feyre did this for Tamlin (a good portion), it could also be why it's already hard for her to open up to him. And that scene was so intense that it was either a panic arrack or a mental breakdown. Notice how she was numb afterwards. And it's interesting that Rhysand came in that exact moment when she thought she couldn't bear it any longer.
Laura wrote: "WinterRose wrote: "I definitely think Feyre will have some degree of PTSD. We kind of see something happening to her in her cell, when she thinks the walls are closing in. It reminds me of panic at..."I definitely think so. But considering that his gifts deal with psychology it's a given. However he's been in hell for 49 years. Sure Tamlin has seen bad things, but to live them for so long? It's worse for Feyre because 1) it's her first time and 2) she's human and everything is more intense. I think what Sarah will do with her now after this will be very interesting. I think Rhys will be the therapist here. Her emotions are anything but logical and someone needs to show her that she was a hero but also its ok to mourn. I think she'll get better.
She'll definitely get better and forgive herself eventually. But clearly the things she did are going to haunt her at first. Rhys and Tam are immortal and hundreds of years old, so they can deal with those events easier. They've likely killed MUCH more than two innocents. But given Rhysand's abilities, where he can sense feelings and emotions (and he can REALLY sense them with Feyre because of the tattoo) he's naturally a good person to help Feyre get through things. Because she can't fool him and put on a smile--his abilities allow him to see the truth there. Not to mention he also was her rock so to say under the mountain and kept her from breaking.Annnd yes, Feyre's crown does seem to feature feathers. :D
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We know the wine was simply to insure Feyre played her role convincingly to keep Amarantha off her back. Without it, I don't think she could keep up the facade as successfully. (And the time before she had the wine, she meets Tam in that closet and nearly gets caught. Way to go, Feyre. lol)