spoiler talk The Whites to the end

[Ann]

I read The Whites, my first Richard Price/ writing as Harry Brandt, and found myself mesmerized by the gritty streets of New York as viewed by several NYC police detectives. I will post a few comments with the hope that someone else who reads the book or the author will have some thoughts as well.
I suppose I really need to read Clockers now.
Spoilers to the end
(view spoiler)[
Billy as our narrator is a character we learn a lot about as the story unfolds. He is a good father to his sons, a good son to his father, and a supportive husband. He works a night shift that puts a strain on his life, and with a resigned attitude, but does a decent job. The unfolding is a bit of a reverse viewpoint of Billy: of his fellow detectives, he is the only one still on the job, so we greet and meet the others through their current gigs and their past cases, and see Billy's impressions of them and of his motivations and daily experiences.
Here's the rub. Is Billy part of the group still? Is it only due to his position that they leave him out of the conspiracy to eliminate each other's "White", or do they not trust him, was he only on the periphery of the group all along?
Without a print copy I might have imagined it, but in a confrontation with one of the Wild Geese gang; shocked that Billy might turn them in for the murders, it is alluded that Billy's hands aren't so clean either, and that his friends had to clean up after and cover up for him too, calling him "coke-boy".
Perhaps the years past case and acquittal gainst his shooting a suspect and killing a child bystander wasn't so on the up-and-up? Did Billy realize that, was that true, is his guilt just deeper seated then the others'?

The way the Milton Ramos chapters inserted themselves, and his attitude and intent grew and grew, and wavered and grew; the inevitability, and the possibility of reversal was very powerful.
In hindsight this book causes deceptively deeper consideration upon reflection. (hide spoiler)]

[Carol/Bonadie]

Ann, my copy of The Whites just came in, but I fear that I will have to return it unread when its due date comes. I'm only halfway through The Bone Tree, and I was planning on a Peter Robinson to calm things down. What do you think?

[Ann]

Carol: The Whites won't be very calming after The Bone Tree. I don't think I would advise them to be read back to back! So many books so little time! Going to your "happy reading place" next would be better. :)

[Carol/Bonadie]

Ann wrote: "In hindsight this book causes deceptively deeper consideration upon reflection. ..."

Exactly what I wound up thinking at the conclusion of this book.

I found this a good follow-up to The Bone Tree, just because it was much shorter and a completely different locale.

I did have a little trouble following it on audio; between the cops, their relatives, the perps and the witnesses, there were so many characters introduced along the way that my head was spinning and I really didn't realize what was going on (dual viewpoints) until halfway through the book. I did manage to get a print copy from the library but never really used it to good effect because I didn't want to put the audio down, LOL.

[Carol/Bonadie]

I found it fascinating to watch Billy and his wife's relationship over the course of the book. They each have gone through their own emotional crises (view spoiler)[and seem to have come out the other side. She takes no crap from him; sometimes I feared at the speed at which she lashed out at him in reaction to something, but I came to feel as though that was who she was and he was okay with that. They seem to have settled in to a committed, passionate relationship, and know and trust each other. I know so many cop relationships go up in flames, but I ended up feeling like this one would endure. It probably helped that she was a triage nurse so she had the fortitude to withstand the trauma of a cop's life. (hide spoiler)]

[Carol/Bonadie]

I have a close co-worker whose husband is a firefighter and comes from a long line of firefighters. A month or so ago her BIL, also a firefighter, died unexpectedly and at an early age of complications due to diabetes. The outpouring from the local firefighters was unbelievable -- they even brought in subs for the day of the funeral, for the entire city of 6 or so stations, so they could all attend the funeral.

I say all that to say that going through that plus reading this book made me long to be a part of the brotherhood of cops and firefighters, although I know there are elements of that life that would aggravate and frustrate me.

re: Billy and his colleagues: (view spoiler)[I don't know why his fellow cops left him out of the revenge plot, but it was a nice twist. I think they suspected that for whatever reason, rank being only part of it, he would not be good with that vigilante operation. Billy was written as somewhat of a moral character, so I think that wouldn't sit well with him. It was equally shocking to learn that they covered up for his coke problem more than just during the accidental shooting. Who knows what else happened during that time. (hide spoiler)]

[Carol/Bonadie]

regarding the incident in Billy's past: (view spoiler)[I didn't wind up wondering if the fellow cops altered things in the child shooting situation, just to what extent and in how many situations they covered up the fact of his being blasted out of his mind on coke, which could have resulted in other out of control situations that would have had him lose his badge had the fact of his addiction been uncovered. (hide spoiler)]

Boy, that is one convoluted run-on sentence, hope it's clear, I'm too tired to spend the time to untangle it, LOL!

[Ann]

Carol:
I have been waiting until I had some free keyboard time to reply to your comments, they are very interesting points!
I also had a bit of a time getting settled into the audio book, the multiple characters were interesting and a bit overwhelming so that I was not quite grasping what each cop's experience was going to mean in the big picture at first. That along with the gritty style took some getting used to. A print copy would have been helpful while listening.

[Ann]

The brotherhood of Firefighters and Police Officers is admirable and to know you can count on such a good group of people to have your back must be of great comfort. It takes a special person to make those sacrifices for sure.
Re your Billy and his colleagues spoiler (view spoiler)[ about their leaving him out of the plot and covering for his earlier coke problem; while those seem to be disconnected - I think they are connected in a manner of protecting him both times; from himself, and closing ranks to keep others outside the circle from knowing he strayed into serious coke trouble; and from knowing him so well that they knew he would either stop them or turn them in (hide spoiler)] now for mine, that was a run-on sentence!

Carol/Bonadie wrote: "I have a close co-worker whose husband is a firefighter and comes from a long line of firefighters. A month or so ago her BIL, also a firefighter, died unexpectedly and at an early age of complica..."

[Ann]

Carol:
Re the incident in Billy's past ... (view spoiler)[
It was a bit of a surprise near the end of the book to realize the depth of his issues with coke, he came across as the "moral stand-up for the law" kind of guy who was able to use judgement on when to step down hard on someone not following procedure and when to let a transgression be a learning lesson, always knowing the difference....and that doesn't exactly jive with being the cause of harm while impaired possibly multiple times that had to be covered up. Then again, perhaps that is the point. Perhaps his use of judgement through leniency and punishment when appropriate stems in part from people cutting him slack in the past. (hide spoiler)]

Carol/Bonadie wrote: "regarding the incident in Billy's past: [spoilers removed]
Boy, that is one convoluted run-on sentence, hope it's clear, I'm too tired to spend the time to untangle it, LOL!"

[Ann]

I definitely want to read more of Richard Price's writing - anyone have a suggestion for a next book after this first exposure? I have tentatively lined up Clockers but there doesn't seem to be an audio version.

[Carol/Bonadie]

Hi Ann,

Clockers for sure. I've also enjoyed Lush Life. A glimpse at his wikipedia page is fascinating (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard...). I didn't realize he wrote the book The Wanderers, upon which the film is based, or that he wrote several screenplays, including the 2000 sequel to Shaft! Shut yo' mouth!

[Ann]

I found Clockers on Kindle Unlimited so will squeeze it in between library loans..still wish there was an audio. :)

[Carol/Bonadie]

Ann wrote: "I found Clockers on Kindle Unlimited so will squeeze it in between library loans..still wish there was an audio. :)"

Yeah, I bet. That's odd that there isn't one.