The Golden Compass
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doesn't anyone else hate this book?
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chris
(last edited Apr 05, 2008 06:44PM)
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Apr 04, 2008 03:29PM
There are reasons for me hating The Golden Compass. First of all, I pretended to like it at the beginning of the year when I actually didn't like it, and then these kids made fun of me because they thought I actually LIKED it, and then I really started hating it. I didn't like the book and thought it was boaring and sacreligious, for one thing. And it makes great series' like Lord of The Rings and The Chronicles of Narnia look bad! I just don't like it, people.
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I don't want to anger you but I have a question to ask you that I am curious about. How can you prove that the book is against religions? I have read the book. I have not seen the movie, but from the book I don't recall any major points that promote non- believers. The author may not be a believer, but that doesn't mean the book promotes that.
In an interview of Phillip Pullman, he clearly stated; "My books are about killing God." He said so, that's all he had to say on the subject. That's an obvious giveaway.
To be honest, I haven't even read the book and I already hate the book because its written by an athiest and that contradicts my religion. In plus, my church is bascally banning us from reading the book.
wow, don't you think that's a little... harsh? I mean, I don't like it because of the anti religion thing, but there are other reasons I don't like it. They might really like it, if they read it. Just in case, if i'm saying anything offensive it's not because i'm trying, i'm only twelve, and there are things I still say to offend people... unintensionally, that is.
By the way, they don't emphisise the anti religion thing as much as they do in the other ones. In the third one, they try to kill god! That's anti religious, isn't it?
No. The books are atheistic - there is no God in the books. Some of the characters try and overthrow an angel that's been set up as a false god. Personally, I've always thought the books were more anti-dogma than anything else."To be honest, I haven't even read the book and I already hate the book because its written by an athiest and that contradicts my religion. In plus, my church is bascally banning us from reading the book."
Hmm, cutting irony or a perfect example of the trilogy's theme? It's so hard to tell on the internet.
well I am 15 and I am not being harsh... just stating the facts as well as my opinion.
To Chris and Ashley: I quote, "Pullman has found support from other Christians, most notably Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury. These groups and individuals contend that Pullman's negative portrayal of the "Church" in His Dark Materials amounts to an attack on dogmatism and the use of religion to oppress, not on Christianity itself. Dr. Williams has gone so far as to propose that His Dark Materials be taught as part of religious education in schools." Kids, the whole point of education is to gather information from many sources and compare meaning in a way that enhances your understanding. Don't trust anyone who attempts to limit your sources of information. Those standing outside often have the clearest view.
Okay, okay. I put my hands up in surender. The whole anti-religion thing isn't that prominant. But I didn't like the book, and you can't change my opinion. I admit, the battle scenes and stuff were kind of cool, but it seemed so soft and mellow on the inside, which isn't my cup of tea. Plus, I just couldn't feel attached to the characters when I was reading it. Like in Harry Potter or Eragon or Percy Jackson or even some video games I like, you know what I mean?
Chris, I agree with you on having a hard time getting through the Golden Compass. I didn't really get too riled about the anti-church parts because that's how it goes sometimes and without questions we cannot find answers. But, I am an avid reader and it took me many tries to get through the first half of the book. I just kept thinking, whatever! I'm not really sure why, I just thought the writing was kind of thick and as you said, I also didn't "attach" to any character really. I made myself finish it though because I thought I'd have students with questions about it, or I might be able to use it in a class. Instead, it's on the shelf and I don't really anticipate reading the others in the series.
I really truly hated this book. I had to read it for a school project, and halfway through I wanted to rip it to shreds. I did read the second one though as I wanted to know what had happened. I DID NOT however read the third one and NEVER will.
That's a good word to discribe his writing; "thick". And it's very easy for people to think "whatever" during his books. The other two weren't that great either. People, the anti-religion principals aren't what matter, what matters is that the writing is good (Unfortuanatly in this case the writing is poor and sacriligious), but keep that in mind.
You guys this book is a FANTASY! Don't take it to seriously! I personally thought it was a great book. Pullman has a right to believe or disbelieve any religion he likes.
I went to Chapters a few months ago to buy the book for my little sister. When I asked the salesperson where it was, he gave a wry smile and asked "How many copies do you want?"It sounds like all this furor about it being anti-religious is great publicity.
By the way, I didn't buy the book after all - the writing is awful!
I liked the Golden Compass. I just hated the Subtle Knife and the Amber Spyglass. Golden Compass i think did not have a positive view of what was going in that world. It's not really a cross over into our world until Subtle Knife. I've noticed with Pullman that his first books in a series are pretty good/okay and then it just gets wierd and not very good after that.
Having met the author, and hearing him speak on his US tour, he stated that he based his books on Milton's Paradise Lost. Read that one?
That would be fine if he kept his religion to himself and not make it into a children's book. Do you know the whole reason he wrote the book was to turn kids atheist?
Hi Almira,I've read "Paradise Lost", but I've only leafed through "The Golden Compass", so I'm not sure what Pullman meant.
God is a rather unpleasant character in "Paradise Lost", though, and Heaven looks more like a military camp than anything else. Milton was deeply religious, though - I don't think he did it on purpose!
I am not particularly religious and not a Catholic. I read the first book and thought, hmm, not fond of Catholics. I read the second and said, that's enough. If you want to write a diatribe against religion, fine, just don't disguise is as a kids adventure story.
I personally enjoyed the series, in large part because of the philosophical discussion. I've seen some stuff saying that he wrote the series specifically as a reaction to The Chronicles of Narnia, which is a pro-protestant religion kids adventure story... About churches "practically banning" reading certain books - that's rather a large part of the point Pullman was making, and hasn't that led, historically, to some rather unpleasant situations??
Hey, Chris..since you've read the book surely you must have noticed what exactly he has against religion. It seems quite obvious to me...1) Most religions have little or nothing to do with their progenitor i.e. What did Christ have to say about temples (churches) He didn't teach that you can only experience god in a particular building.
2) Most organised religions have been hijacked by individuals who seek power.
3) Religion is used as an excuse to dehumanise people. Some followers are willing to kill/harm people who don't subscribe to their beliefs (just look at the middle east for example and not just at the Muslim side)
5)Lots of religious followers follow blindly without even trying to exercise their own judgement of what's the right thing to do.
It seems to me that these are the issues that the author has with religion not whether god exists or not and that most of the time god has little or nothing to do with some religions
If you read the book BEFORE being told by every religious figure of authority that your eyes would explode and your penis would fall off if you read the book, would you have found it to be such an evil read?The book was FICTION. You could point at anything in that book and compare it to a similar thing in real life, but you'd just sound like a crackpot.
WHAT TO DO IF YOU'RE RELIGIOUS AND WANT TO READ IT: Pretend that the church is actually a Scientologist church. It makes more sense to me that way too.
I agree with your comments. And I note the irony of the situation where many people in the world do not want to get the facts and decide things for themselves. They will blindly follow the masses rather than seek the answers for themselves. They let a church, corporation, whatever keep them in fear. I am Christian and I do go to church and I can still enjoy the story for the fantasy that it is. However I would not classify this as a Children's story.
I'm not sure where you got this information from, and without telling me I have a hard time believing it. Especially since the books read, espiecally the 3rd one, that they are trying to overthrow a false God. That sort of thing doesn't make one atheist, since many religious wars are started over this kind of thing.(sorry this was a response to someone who said the books try to make people atheist from earlier, it didn't post like I thought it would).
First of all HDM is FICTION and yes the books could be considered anti-religious . In the book GOD is not the bad one, its the people who are trying to take over Gods power.
Listen, believe me, I got this from a reliable source. The author was asked and he said that he wrote the books to turn kids atheist, OK?
Sam, you're an idiot. If you can find that quote from him on any website (wikiquote.org for example). In fact, on Wikiquote, it does say his intentions for the book: "I'm trying to write a book about what it means to be human, to grow up, to suffer and learn. My quarrel with much (not all) fantasy is it has this marvellous toolbox and does nothing with it except construct shoot-em-up games."Sam, I'm afraid that whatever religion you belong to is lying to you. Grow up.
You know, I am not sure how old many of you "posters" are, how many of you have degrees in literature, how many of you just enjoy reading, how many librarians there are amongst the group, but Good Grief, lighten up the series is fiction, it is well written. Obviously, it has caused many to really use their grey matter, and discussions, but it isn't rocket science, it is not going to solve world hunger, dispose of terrorism or cause the world to end as we know it.
If it was a reading assignment, well so what?
I had to read lots of things in school back in the 50's and 60's that I didn't like but I didn't trash the author. I respected the author's right to write, and then chose not to read anymore of that author.
I agree with Anna. This is a work of fiction. I read book one, did not care for it because I thought it was boring ( movie was awful) and will not read the others. My choice to read or not has NOTHING to do with the personal views of the author, nor with the fact that the book may have religious implications. I understand that some people have strong feelings towards anything that touches upon religion negatively, but I do not agree with this. I can read anything, about any religion, but i don't have to agree with it or like it; I can appreciate it's point of view or its sentiment or the creativity that went into it. I don't think being in a democratic society that one can outright bastardize a book based on the author's one sentence declaration about God... for all you know, he could have said it just for publicity and to get the exact reaction people have been giving him. In that regard, instead of making up your own mind, you fed from his hands. Read because you want to! Some books will be bummers, some won't!
Enough. I get the point. No one else hates it. I geuss I'm an oddball again. Just keep in mind that everybody has their own opinion, some like it some don't, and I didn't like it. You know what? It wasn't the sacreligion that bothered me at all. It was the wrting. It was not good in my view. It was dry, it was pointless, it just didn't give me that familiar warmth I get inside me from reading "Harry Potter" or "Percy Jackson & the Olympians".And you know what, I also agree with Joyce. If you don't like religion, fine. Just don't try to bring inoscent people down with you! Write the truth, Pullman, the truth.
Just a question, but do you hate it because it's badly written or is it just that you don't agree with it? Because a difference of opinion is no reason to hate someone/something.
Uh...Hi! Look, I'm totally religious and stand firm to my faith, but I Love, Love, Love this series! I haven't seen the movie, but you know how those are. They usually make it completely different from the book. My mom is very religious, and isn't letting me see the movie, and I haven't finished the third book because thats where God dies and I feel sorta bad, but all together, I think this is a good read!!!
If you love this series, then come to the Golden Compass Roleplay, I created it 2 days ago. Plus, some of the comments you guys are making are really RUDE and OFFENSIVE to people's religions and other countries!
Hi Chris,For me, when participating in discussion boards, I have to try very hard to remember that responses are not personal. The other posters are addressing your argument, not your right to like or not like the story, and especially not you personally.
What I think some other posters, and Philp Pullman, are trying to do is to have you ask questions. These aren't trying to make you an atheist, or to shake your faith, but to make you a critical thinker. I've written down some questions that I think the book raises. What questions do you think the book is asking?
* What are the differences between the God in Philip Pullman's worlds and our world? They share the same names, but are "The Church" and "God" the same as we know them?
* What is the difference between God and religion?
* How does this book conflict or agree with what I believe or have been taught about religion and God?
* What affect, positive or negative, do those things done in the name of religion have on the religion itself?
* What is sacrilege?
Not having read the book, I'm hardly entitled to an opinion, but I can't resist butting in.I saw a couple of people trying to defuse the tension by saying things like "lighten up, this is just fiction" or "everyone's entitled to their opinion", "we live in a democratic society" etc.
I understand that the goal was just to make the others mind their manners, but is this really the best way?
_Of course_ Pullman was entitled to write whatever he liked, as are all of you. But unless you're debating whether or not to burn his book (or each other!), freedom of speech has nothing to do with the discussion.
The point of freedom of expression is not that people stop debating - it is merely that they all make it home safely afterwards!
And the fact that everyone is entitled to express their opinion doesn't mean that all opinions are equally valid.
So if the alternative to insulting each other is stopping the discussion altogether or, even worse, deciding that the issue is not important, by all means keep the insults coming!
First off, I am an atheist. Now please, just keep reading what I have to say because I am very tolerant of people who are religious which would be basically everyone I know outside of my immediate family.The Golden Compass and the two sequels to it are NOT trying to "turn kids atheist" it is simply a story. A story. Nothing more, nothing less. It is a story where the unnamed narrator of the story (since there must be one because we, the readers, can know the thoughts of multiple characters) does not altogether agree with the established Church in the books. Although I do agree with the assertation that the Church in the Golden Compass and the succeeding books is quite probably modeled on the Catholic Church and other religious organizations from the real world, how is that really a negative thing? So many other authors do the same thing in their own works of fiction, yet how many of them are accused of being atheists and trying to "turn kids atheist"? Besides, there are innumerous authors in the world today who write books simply to promote their own religion or belief system. Why do people react so much more vehemently to an atheist author writing a book where, yes, the "good" people in the book are acting against their Church than when a religious author writes a book attacking atheism? How is that "ok"?
And I have to reply to this particular comment:
"To be honest, I haven't even read the book and I already hate the book because its written by an athiest and that contradicts my religion. In plus, my church is bascally banning us from reading the book."
How can you hate something that you have no personal knowledge of? First off, you just hate it because you are being told to which, I'm sorry, but doesn't really speak to a very convincing case against the book at all. And secondly, you don't hate the book if you're never even read it; you hate the idea of the book, which is a totally different thing. Therefore, your statement really carries no significant weight.
And by the way, I just read the third book and I consider these books overall some of the best books I have ever read and, not to brag, but I have read a LOT of books. The thing that really hooked me on these books is that you never know what is going to happen. I couldn't ever actually figure out in The Amber Spyglass if Mrs Coulter was really good or bad until the end. And to me, that speaks of a very, very, very good book. Pullman doesn't treat his readers as being more stupid than he is; he acts like we are right at his intellect level and doesn't give unnecessary hints or clues. This in and of itself made me want to keep reading the books. I actually wanted to know what was going to happen; I couldn't just figure out what was going to happen before it did, I was always really truly surprised.
Excellent books.
You Go Almira I agree with you, People this is a fantacy book. Use what imagination you have, WHILE YOU HAVE IT! Lighten up. Everyone wants to focus on the religous aspect of the book(I have read all three and loved them), The possibility of traveling to other worlds(sound familar)I feel you get out of a book what you put into it.
I also have all three on cd so I can listen to them over again. I think it is very well written,I don't get the athiestism feeling from them at all, who is to say what religon is the right one maybe none, maybe all,I love fantcy because it expands the mind,maybe people a little older should read this. It obviously confuses the ones with thier minds already closed. Lighten up Be happy!
I also have all three on cd so I can listen to them over again. I think it is very well written,I don't get the athiestism feeling from them at all, who is to say what religon is the right one maybe none, maybe all,I love fantcy because it expands the mind,maybe people a little older should read this. It obviously confuses the ones with thier minds already closed. Lighten up Be happy!
just random... this is my fave book.... nothing against anybody....
I liked the book ... a lot... I find myself with a strong faith so a book of any kind will not detrack from my faith...Also I would not go as far as to say that a faith of any kind or ones with out one can not be evil and pursue power, greed and corruption...
I don;t know who said it but or if I have the saying right but ... "The way to learn of a mans character is not to stand him in the face of evil but to give him power and see the choices he makes with that power."
I think that is what this book is try to say...
There are people of non faith and faith that will want to tell other how to live... and if they don;t they will and can do horrible things...
Look at human history we are nothing but barbaric to each other...
I think question should be do you value life other than yours...
I loved this book. I thought it was very well written. If the book was written to turn kids Atheist, it's not working very well. The author might have intended it to be used to turn kids Atheist or something along those lines, but to me it was a story about a religion that might have gotten a little corrupt. I'm a Catholic, but I know that a long time ago the Catholic church was corrupt too. I think I can also safely assume that most religions have had a period of time like this. That was what I was thinking of when I first read the story. (that was before i heard the whole the author is an evil Atheist and the book are horrible)
If you want to protest against the author, you don't have to not read the book, just don't support the author. Check the book out from the library or something.
And Chris, you are definately not an oddball just because you don't like the book. Im sure there are a lot of people out there who think it is terrible writing and don't hate it just beacuse of the religion thing.
sigh. This book is about big, important ideas, ideas that are hard--but wonderful--for kids and adolescents, and that even lots of adults may not have worked very hard on. The series is about(as someone quoted Pullman saying) nothing less than what it means to be human, and the struggle between autonomy and authority.
I would, honestly, love it if this series "turned a kid atheist". It would mean that it has gotten a kid to think for herself, to reject what others have told her is true based on no evidence, and to make decisions based on her own reason and senses. All just fine in my book.
Why should anyone be afraid of a book that might make you think? Isn't it better to read and disagree than to reject because you feel threatened?
Sam, I actually agree that the writing is not the best in the world--a little turgid in style for my taste. But the plot is so gripping, and the ideas are so unique and stimulating, I can't think of a series of books I am more eager to have my kid read, as soon as he is old enough. Maybe try them again in a few years--I actually think a lot of kids may read them before they're ready.
I was thinking the same thing, Taffer. ;)
hey ashley (da wan dat hates it evn doe shes neva red it)jus out of curiosity wat religion are u ???
cuz if u say catholic den i knw fer a fct ur lyin cuz im a catholic n my priest hasnt said wer not allowed tey read it
n evn if he did u dnt have tey alwys follw wat he says it a free cuntry
Fr. Boland actully encourages us to read
now personally i find dis book a bit slow
i dnt hate it but i dnt like it eder
i cnny evn finsih da first prt of it
not tey mention i have tey read da rst of dem cuz i got dat 3 in 1 book fing >:(
First of all, does it really matter what the author's religious beliefs are? An intelligent reader would say no. I simply didn't like the book because I can't stand fantasy books, they just aren't for me. I would never not read a book just because the author had opposing religious views or because someone "banned" me from reading it. That's ridiculous.
To me, it doesn't matter what the author's religous beliefs are, but it does matter if he publicly denounces my religion. It's not going to stop me from checking the book out from a library and reading it, but it will stop me from buying the book and giving money to the author.
And to me, Ashley, that makes perfect sense. If I had strong religious views, I'm sure I wouldn't want to give my money to the author of a book who denounced my religion either.
its not real so hu givs a f*** wedr r not it says religion is bad
the da vinci code insults our religion more dan dis book but im sure plnty of catholics have red it
jus by buyin da book duznt meen u believe wat dey say
so wise up, grow up n shut up yee stupid yank
Keelin, get back to the other end of the internet. If you want to have a serious intellectual discussion about books and/or religion, use proper spelling, grammar, capitalisation and punctuation.Ashley, as soon as you start claiming that this book denounces *your* religion, then you're admitting that your religion is an evil entity with a secret agenda, that enjoys torturing/murduring children. Well done you.
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