doesn't anyone else hate this book?

[emily c.]

I actually like this trilogy. It makes one wander, ask questions and explore possibilities. Don't go reading it with expectation and prejudice based on what other people say. My advise? Sit down, read it, try not to think of your biases and just go with the experience. If you find yourself annoyed with its subtext, continue reading and criticize afterwards knowing that you understand (or at least tried) what it is you're criticizing.

[[deleted user]]

chris wrote: "There are reasons for me hating The Golden Compass. First of all, I pretended to like it at the beginning of the year when I actually didn't like it, and then these kids made fun of me because they..."

you shouldn't have pretended to like it in the first place! if you don't like a book, don't go up to everyone and say "Oh, this book is really great!!!" you should, when asked, say "oh, actually, I really didn't like this book. I didn't like how in the book...".
second, if someone teases you because you like it you should say "and why should I care what you think? If YOU don't like this book then it's your own problem! Now back off!"
see my point? :)

[Laura]

I'm surprised by all the people who said the book was poorly written and "turgid." What would you consider good writing, then? Not Harry Potter, I hope.

As for the anti-religion stuff, well, there is such a thing as the Left Behind Series which is unapologetically and stupidly dogmatic as well as poorly written. I agree, if you think something is too disgusting to stomach, you should not read it. I certainly will never be caught dead reading a Left Behind book nor any other Christian nonsense. I don't see why I should force someone else to read fiction. If it were nonfiction, it might be a different story, but it's just a story. If you don't like the premise, don't read it. It's not as if the author is trying to keep it a secret.

But what I don't understand is people posting a review of something that they openly admit they have not read, and/or that they haven't even gotten a third of the way through. Really, that's just mean-spirited. It takes a lot of work to write a book. If you don't believe me, go ahead and try it. If you didn't read it, then you shouldn't talk about it. Because, frankly, you don't know what you're talking about, and that, by your own admission.

[MizziQ]

I do agree that it is very clear on what it's about. I myself am a Christian and have read some of the left behind series. While it has many assumptions and speculations for the drama I do find it intresting. The point being that the left behind series is also VERY clear that it is Christian so if you don't want to read it it doesn't trick you into thinking it's something else altogether. I think the Golden Compass is the same way. It makes it clear what it's about and all you have to do is read a discussion like this to find out more. You can of course say you just DID NOT like it...it just wasn't a good fit. But I don't think you should say that you weren't informed about the plot...you were.

[Sam]

I don,t know what all the fuss is about . religion or not to one side its a very good read

[Patrick]

Having read this whole series I have two questions.

!!! SPOILER ALERT !!!

The Authority character was an overreaching militaristic entity and basically a fallen angel who had imprisoned the true Authority (for simplicity: God). By defeating the impostor who until the third book was made to LOOK like God, the characters release the true Authority and restore balance to the series's multiverse. On reading that I thought that it really wasn't about "killing god", but defeating a Satan-like figure.

Question 1: Is Pullman a MASTER marketer?
Question 2: How many people who hate this book have read it though with an open mind to evaluate it's content?

Bonus: Who else got that the third book was heavily inspired by the tale of Orpheus?

[John]

Yeah I hated it. The little girl in the book is pretty much a sociopath, so was her father and mother to be honest.
There were really no redeeming qualities or people in it, I have no idea why it was so popular. I guess because it was 'edgy' and the writer hates religion. All in all it was a stupid book with very little to believe in (like why would a conniving self centered little girl care about anything? And why would her mother ever really care about her either?)

[Michele]

I loved all the books in this series. The books are not anti-God, but they do not put organized religion in a favorable light. They are a thoughtful question about authority and it's role in our pursuits of science and our choice of morals.

[Aaditya]

chris wrote: "There are reasons for me hating The Golden Compass. First of all, I pretended to like it at the beginning of the year when I actually didn't like it, and then these kids made fun of me because they..."

That's a thoroughly explained answer. Well done. But I think Golden Compass is a well written NOvel. I liked it. And I like Subtle Knife even more. Amber Spyglass? I think it is dragged too much.

[Jake]

wow that is really harsh peter and really keelin speak like a normal person

[Rachel]

Ashley wrote: "To be honest, I haven't even read the book and I already hate the book because its written by an athiest and that contradicts my religion. In plus, my church is bascally banning us from reading the..."

I believe everyone has the right to expand their mind to any religion and for one religion to ban that, I find that... I can't even think of the word. I think God loves everyone no matter what branch of religion they are from.

[Rachel]

Fiachna wrote: "Hey, Chris..since you've read the book surely you must have noticed what exactly he has against religion. It seems quite obvious to me...
1) Most religions have little or nothing to do with their p..."

HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD!! Exactly what I got from the book. He's not saying there is no God, it's about how man is abusing his power in conjunction with God. I agree, You do not have to go to one certain church for God to love or hear you. He hears you no matter where you are. I hate that about certain religions. And I can't stand door to door religion salesmen.

[Jonathan]

Let's pretend for a moment that Pullman did write the book hoping to turn kids into atheists (I'm referring to a part of this discussion I read above). So what? Can't you read it without turning atheist? Can't your beliefs stand up to a challenge?

[Amy]

Ashley wrote: "To be honest, I haven't even read the book and I already hate the book because its written by an athiest and that contradicts my religion. In plus, my church is bascally banning us from reading the..."

Well hooray for religious tolerance, for presumption, for mind control.

[Amy]

Peter wrote: "Keelin, get back to the other end of the internet. If you want to have a serious intellectual discussion about books and/or religion, use proper spelling, grammar, capitalisation and punctuation.

..."
goodreads needs a LIKE function.

[Amy]

Ashley wrote: "I loved this book. I thought it was very well written. If the book was written to turn kids Atheist, it's not working very well.

The author might have intended it to be used to turn kids Atheist ..."

"a long time ago the Catholic church was corrupt"
Now is not "a long time ago"

[Tina]

Sam wrote: "That would be fine if he kept his religion to himself and not make it into a children's book. Do you know the whole reason he wrote the book was to turn kids atheist?"

and the whole reason the bible was written was to turn people christian or was it jewish not sure, but also not sure on what your point is since thats no reason for anything.

[Amy]

Sam wrote: "That would be fine if he kept his religion to himself and not make it into a children's book. Do you know the whole reason he wrote the book was to turn kids atheist?"

Atheism isn't a religion.

[Amy]

Rachel wrote: "Fiachna wrote: "Hey, Chris..since you've read the book surely you must have noticed what exactly he has against religion. It seems quite obvious to me...
1) Most religions have little or nothings to..."

No, actually, Pullman is an atheist and the books ARE about killing the god of the world he's created in them,
ETA: this is a reply to comment 163, not sure why it doesn't show I'm my reply.

[Артём]

Pullman is an atheist and the books ARE about killing the god

It doesn't matter that the author is an atheist if the book is about god. It just means that for a while he's suspended his disbelief and expects the same from his readers.

But really, nobody kills god in the book, god dies on its own when let out of the jar. If Pullman ever wanted them to kill god, he must have forgotten that when he was writing that chapter. Even people who believe in a god that can be put in a jar have nothing to be offended about, and I'm not sure if anyone does.

[Fester]

chris wrote: "There are reasons for me hating The Golden Compass. First of all, I pretended to like it at the beginning of the year when I actually didn't like it, and then these kids made fun of me because they..."

Keep calm, and remember that god is a myth.

[[deleted user]]

sigh. Okay, I'm Christian and I read this when I was ten years old. And I'm pretty sure my faith was and is strong enough to hold up to a book with somewhat anti-religious content. I just wanted to put that out there, because I don't truly believe that reading books written by an atheist is going to immediately turn kids into atheists outright. If the author really did say that that was his goal, then he's less intelligent than I thought, because it's not going to work.
Also, I'm not a huge fan of this book, but religion is not a big reason for that. yes, it bothered me a little bit, but the big reason was that there was an enormous amount of death and sadness. I try not to dislike books just because of the views of the author, which may be passed on in the writing. We should at least respect him as a person with views and talents, whether or not we agree with him.

[David]

Ashley wrote: "To be honest, I haven't even read the book and I already hate the book because its written by an athiest and that contradicts my religion. In plus, my church is bascally banning us from reading the..."
Not everyone is a Christian or a believer in a deity. About 20% of Americans have no religion; it is higher in western Europe.

[[deleted user]]

I didn't hate the book, but i didn't enjoy it as much as I had hoped. I think there was a certain "mechanical" quality to the plotting and writing that threw me off: the underlying blueprint often seemed to show through the surface textures too clearly. Perhaps a little more flesh, more development of settings and secondary characters would have helped.

[Aaditya]

I found this book a very good read. :)

[Claire]

I dont see why everyone is getting so hung up on the religious aspect of it. He is entitled to integrate his own beliefs into his writing. You wouldnt be complaining if it was a Christian writing about their values and worshipping God now would you? Two sides of the same coin. You condemn him for expressing his beliefs but you are just as quick to push yours.

I liked the books myself but I do agree that Lyra could be...grating. I couldnt really attach to any of the characters until the 3rd book. To me the faith aspect didnt come into it. I have no religion. God to me is just another pretty story that people use to comfort themselves. I'm glad I have no religion. It just seems like an excuse for conflict. Just accept that we all have different beliefs and none of us is nessacarily right or wrong.

[Scott]

I never felt like Pullman was Pushing His Beliefs on the reader. To me he was Just Telling A Story. As an atheist, I'm happy to read stories set in a christian milieu, as long as they are Just Telling A Story too.

[Debbie]

Wow. this discussion is as hostile and very similar to the one about DaVinci Code.

Personally, read the book, figured out after the second chapter it had nothing to do with religion but a lot to do with powermongering and abuse. I liked it but in a cautious way. Was not always an easy read and something very foggy about it. I have no idea what the author intended but once it is published, if I understand correctly, it is up to the reader to interpret based on the words and plot.
If it makes a difference I am a follower of Christ and did not see much similarity in his teachings and this story. It would not take much of a leap to assign this to any other religion as most here are assigning it to christianity. The story is about human nature - the dark side of it.

[Jade]

Why are books that promote religion are more tolerated than books that may or may not denounce it?
Just because Narnia promotes God and religion didn't mean, as a non-believer, I automatically turned away from the series and condemned it as rubbish. I read and enjoy it despite not sharing C.S.Lewis' beliefs.
To those of you who refuse to read a book because your Church forbids it, I feel sorry for you. You will have missed out on many opportunities to broaden your minds and have a choice in your belief. If your faith isn't strong enough to stand up to a work a fiction, its not much of a faith is it. And if your Church is afraid of you being "turned atheist", how secure are they in their belief in God?
Fiction is there, first and foremost, to entertain. Just appreciate the time spent by someone else to create a worthwhile pastime for you and leave religion (a messy topic at best) out of your minds and enjoy the escape from reality.

[Jonathan]

If my church leadership banned books, I would not lose faith in God, but I would certainly have doubts about my church.

[Claire]

Jonathan wrote: "If my church leadership banned books, I would not lose faith in God, but I would certainly have doubts about my church."

Jade wrote: "Why are books that promote religion are more tolerated than books that may or may not denounce it?
Just because Narnia promotes God and religion didn't mean, as a non-believer, I automatically turn..."

I think you two just banged the nail right on the head. Why does it matter?! Whats the point of arguing about it, this whole thread could go round in circles for months with no one ever giving any ground.
Any church that dictates what its members can or cannot read sounds more like a cult to me.

[Josefine]

I believe in God and I go to church every sunday, but I still love the books. Philip Pullman is an amazing writer, even though I don't like the way he hates religion.

[Tim]

Getting back to the original topic question - No, I loved this book! I don't care about the religious politics of it, I care about the storytelling. Here's part of the reason I think The Golden Compass is one of the greatest books written in the last 25 years:

http://bit.ly/KKwKmE

[Tim]

And if you enjoyed that one, here are a few reasons Pullman should be considered a master stylist in English prose:

http://bit.ly/wWCZcT

What do you think?

[[deleted user]]

I do not hate this book. I love this book. I hate what the trilogy has turned it into. A fantasy novel should be filled with morals and philosophical viewpoints but the series has plummeted from being a masterpiece, to a fable on the rocks of banality.

[SarahO]

I read the first book a few years ago so I don't remember much but I remember being bored out of my skull and irritated with some of the characters. I put down the book with maybe 30-60 pages left (I know, I need to reread the whole thing now). I didn't notice anything religious in the first book but I hear it doesn't come til later and it really doesn't make me want to read them but I would never want to ban it or anything. I'm not really a fan of Pullman either. I loved his Sally Lockhart Trilogy but he did tend to get on a soapbox sometimes and I thought his writing could definitely use some work.

[Siobhan]

Shut up yourself Keelin and do the people,who go on this website a favour

[Adrienne]

I totally hated this series. It was ok at first but then they started talking about planning to go and kill God and I was like DUMB. Who wants to read about that. Plus I don't like that the animals are called Daemons...yeah lets make having demons following us around appealing to children. Worst books EVER.

[Patrick]

Ok I loved this series because of probably why anyone would hate it. While I don't agree it promotes atheism, it does promote the rejection of Authoritative and Institutionalized religion. The themes he uses in the book contrast a "free-thinker" perspective with that of a "religious minded" one. He says growing up and maturing is GOOD, as it allows an individual to become in-charge of their lives, not gullible children (metaphor for sheep of a religious flock). Knowledge and truth are shown to be powerful and something that is more virtuous then faith and submission. If you hate this book, I feel sorry for you, but please understand; Authoritative religions are man made, and the book was a way for children to see a fantasy world that clearly demonstrates that and the horrible power and corruption it can cause.

If you consider yourself a "reader" try to see why the author is making his message that contradicts your faith, and see between the lines that he isn't trying to destroy religion, but the ignorance and blind-faith it causes people to follow.

[Elton]

Some people on here really need to look up the definition of Fiction and Non-Fiction.

[Артём]

Patrick wrote: "Ok I loved this series because of probably why anyone would hate it. While I don't agree it promotes atheism, it does promote the rejection of Authoritative and Institutionalized religion. The them..."

While I liked the series for other reasons, I can see your point Patrick. But I would generalize it a bit - the book criticizes authoritarian ideology in general, it happens to be religious in the book, but secular totalitarianism would fit the metaphor just as well: I couldn't help thinking that Authority in a crystal jar was so much like Lenin in his mausoleum, while Metatron was not unlike Stalin who went on implementing his own version of a communist state while maintaining the appearance of succession from Lenin's Authority.

[Siobhan]

sorry if hate it, but then ok
To me it was epic, (I want my own deamon)
Plus Adrienne, the animals are deamons example polar bears and 1 the deamon is not an animal, it is a part of your soul.
So there
If you don't like Fiction or Non-Fiction,
then don't read them (good point Elton)
we don't need to hear your moan

[Siobhan]

if you are interested in what it shows, example religion
ok
but I think a book, like this is to be enjoyed
not question

[Patrick]

I think the premise of the book is to question Siobhan. It's literally a book about not taking things on faith lol. Still, glad you enjoyed it too.

[Asia]

I am finding discussions about religion always intellectual and interesting. Nevertheless I find it that it can make sense if you had discussions for books like "The Da Vinci Code", but I can understand why it came out with this particular novel. Still, I never thought about religion when I read this book. Is it me, or it is possible not to consider religion and just enjoy this book? I am a Christian - though I admit religion isn't really a huge part of my life - and I had no issues.

Many books deal with religion, but that doesn't mean that believers shouldn't read them. I think it's the ability to consider the "external" world, without feeling necessarily "touched".There are so many different opinions about everything that it's impossible to agree on everything. I think that to be aware of something, it doesn't absolutely mean you consider it. Nowadays there are so many different religions, and arguments like Area 51 or ghosts, this doesn't that if we read a book about these topics then we are believing what we read. I found myself many times disagreeing what a character was doing, and it had nothing to do with religion or anything else related. It's just knowing in what we believe in and being able to understand what others may do or believe in, without necessarily accepting it.

Maybe this could be a stupid thing to say, but Ashley who knows, try reading it, and then come back. Don't need to buy it, just read it..maybe if you consider it JUST a book, nothing personal you could like it.

[[deleted user]]

This book, from a 'grown-up's' perspective is obviously an eloquent attack on the obsurdities of religion. However, no child is going to be able to construe that, so I think its rediculous that religious parents/churches don't let their children read it.

[Siobhan]

exactly

[Sue]

I felt that the book seemed flat and almost dully written. I did not bother with the sequels, and as anyone can see, the sequels haven't made it onto the big screen. So I guess that most people would agree with my opinion.

[DeAnn]

I loved the entire series. It was well written, it kept my interest throughout, the characters and the story line were original and interesting and complicated.

For those of you who said you hated the book because it was against your god, what does that matter? You are strong in your faith, so a book cannot make you change your mind, right? You know, in the Star Wars series Luke Skywalker turns to the dark side for while so that he could learn both sides of the force and when he returned to the light side he was stronger for the experience.

Please, keep an open mind when reading, look past prejudices (yours and those of others) and learn from what you read.

[Артём]

The March Hare wrote: "...no child is going to be able to construe that..."

...and to preserve that innocence it is our duty to separate them from their daemons.