Outlander Series discussion
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anyone having problems with Echo?
Michelle D. wrote: "I agree with some of the other readers, I look for any mention of Jaime in the LJ books.I also have been reading all the posts. I know we can go back and re-read the series, but isn't it sad to s..."
OMG
I would love that!!!!!
In an earlier post someone mentioned The Outlandish Companion 2 Go check out Diana's Blog Post for Dec.7,2010 she is asking fans what they would like to see in the Companion 2!
Christy wrote: "I agree that Percy came out of left field. I do not agree that there was a perfectly good explanation of who he was in Echo. I think it's crap that she included a character from the Lord John boo..."I agree. I feel like she just took leftover scenes from LJ and threw them in Echo without any explination. This was a disappointment to read and I love all her works. I've not read and of the LJ because they were short and I'm not all that interested in LJ as a character. Now if she did something on Master Raymond that would be different.
ChristinaRae wrote: "I think that is the idea. Roger's father may have flown over the 'time hole' or whatever you want to call it, instead of dying in the crash. Didn't someone say that his body wasn't found or somet..."that part made me think of the Bermuda Triangle and all the boats and planes that have disappeared over the years. What if they went back in time? Interesting idea. Not at all real of course but fun to think about.
Diana wrote: "Wendy wrote: "I read as many books as I can on my iphone using ereader. Been using ereader on my phone even before I switched to the iphone. there is a way to bookmark pages and search using key wo..."Rob had met Roger in the past back when he had him hanged. He knew when he saw them in the future that they knew what was going on. He followed them around for a while. He asked them when he met them and they told him all about the time travel, stones, and Gillie Duncan. He finds the letters and reads the few on top that were opened. That's where he found out about the gold.
Erin wrote: "Diana wrote: "Wendy wrote: "I read as many books as I can on my iphone using ereader. Been using ereader on my phone even before I switched to the iphone. there is a way to bookmark pages and searc..."Rob didn't have Roger hanged...that was Buck, Roger's ancestor.
Rob knows about the time travel stuff because he was one of Geillis' friends and a member of the Scottish freedom group with her. He was in on the plan to help Prince Charlie win the war and oust the English(which is why Geillis went to the past in the first place).
Lori wrote: "Erin wrote: "Diana wrote: "Wendy wrote: "I read as many books as I can on my iphone using ereader. Been using ereader on my phone even before I switched to the iphone. there is a way to bookmark pa..."Geesh I knew that. I don't know why I said Rob.
I have finished reading Echo the second time. My take is completely different from the first one. Then I rushed through wanting to read of Claire and Jamie, then Brianna and Roger and felt out of sorts with William and battles - seemed those were so long. The second time, I read more slowly and was amazed that those sections I felt hostage to were not so long after all. I enjoyed looking for ways that William is like Jamie. It is fun to think how he has grown up - and contrast with Ian's experiences. I enjoyed Ian more, also. William is becoming a man with many of Jamie's characteristics. All of these main characters are complex and can't be taken on just surface.Diana's writing is amazing. If you read too fast, you miss some of the short devastatingly expressive sentences. I found that I also had missed some pivotal sentences. Usually I do read fast and think I get it all - but proved to myself I did not on this first read.
I look forward to the next book - and would like even more - Each time a new one is coming out, I reread the series again. That is rare for me.
I hope that some of you will look a little deeper next time you read Echo.
Deanna wrote: "ok, i'm going to preface this by saying i've loved all of DG's other books and devoured them when I read them, but for some reason, I've having problems getting into An Echo In The Bone - i've prob..."Ditto to all I like about them, but I just finished Echo. Stick with it. It's worth it -- just skim all the Rev War battle stuff and don't fret about why your American History classes aren't coming back to you with who wins what battle and which general is which.
Wendy wrote: "I read as many books as I can on my iphone using ereader. Been using ereader on my phone even before I switched to the iphone. there is a way to bookmark pages and search using key words. I've gott..."I am still waiting for the whole Rob Cameron thing to pan out. And am not happy about leaving Jemmy in that tunnel!
I've to a feeling that he travels/has travelled as well -- that the Geillis connection is there (althought I need to go back and clear up all my Geillis recollections). I think Rob is the lynchpin to the over-arching plot everyone is seeking.
Suzanne wrote: "Wendy wrote: "I read as many books as I can on my iphone using ereader. Been using ereader on my phone even before I switched to the iphone. there is a way to bookmark pages and search using key wo..."We know that Claire killed Geillis because she examined her bones before going back the second time(although she didn't know at the time that the bones were Geillis'). I think it's very unlikely that Geillis will return. In order for that to happen, someone would have to travel back more than the standard 202 years and stop Claire from killing her.
I am reading FC right now and just pre-ordered Echo (because the larger trade paperback is not being released by the publisher until June). While I was on the Amazon site, i read some of the reviews.... Oh boy! I think it's the first time I saw the rating for one of her books so low! They all seem to be making the same points, and they reflect what you have written here... generally, they seem disappointed.I think I am going to enjoy reading FC & ABOSAA (slowwwwly) so that I can leave Echo until the next one is on it's way.
28th Feb 10: Kelly wrote the book should have been Echo in the Bone and LJG bookI was worried that EB would be too much Jamie and Claire and found this book had moved on. Claire the eternal florance nightingale would have been just to much and Jamie forever the hero and surving everything thrown at him! I found it rather unrealistic when Roger didn't die having been hung and for sooo long!!! I thought bringing in the younger generations a breath of fresh air and I love Ian what a character and as for Rollo I wouldn't mind having a wolf ike him protecting me.
It had to be that William would found out who he really was poor guy, in our century he would have "issues" so why not back then and no doubt he will and Bree and he will meet again when she plunders back through the stones with the kids to find roger who will now be on a goose chase. William will be dead according to the family tree and I'm still baffeled by Robert??? found him eery from his first intro.Why does everyone hate LJG? I think he's quite cool but I don't go for the sex between him and Claire. He never liked her, respected her and grateful for his brother that's why he married her but she didn't need to pass on any letters she new the future so why did she get involved??? Silly B! As for Jamie I expected him to go mental when told about carnal knowledge of his wife not just a feeble oh!
Just finished ECHO, sat on the shelf a few months till I could get to it without having to put it down! I think Claire became a spy protecting Germaine. There was a brief mention of the dangers of him passing out pamphlets this just prior to her being mentioned a spy.
Enjoyed it but was a jumpy read. Did not like the ending, I agree with others that to much was crammed into the last hundred pages to rapidly.
I do think she mourned Jamie, reference to her being numb and bloodless, both her and JG making love to Jamie not each other when they did, and her grieving episode just prior to Jamie re-entering. I know I was mourning Jamie with her at this point and I knew he was still alive!!!
Did not like the way it turned with Jem, Bree, and Roger so sparsely - could have been more detail there, thought it was very sporadic.
I want life devoted dog like Rollo!
I really liked Echo, especially the separate story lines. I feel like we have seen all the characters grow, and they do have their own stories and I like to see things from their perspectives.As far as Claire's marriage to John, she didn't want to she did it more because it would keep Fergus and his family safe, she wasn't too worried about being arrested herself. But just cause who she is, she has to help whoever she can, even if she does stupid things while helping. If she didn't do these things, there would be very little story. Ha!
++ All About Percy Wainwright/Beauchamp ++
Percy... he was in Brotherhood of the Blade and Private matter. LJ met him briefly in a gay gentleman's club called Lavender House while he was investigating his cousin's fiancee. Then he showed up as a main character in Brotherhood. Percy was the step son of a man marrying LJ's mom. LJ recognized him and they had a spark immediately. Percy bought a commission and joined Hal (Melton) and LJ's regiment. Following his mom's wedding to Percy's step father, the two began a relationship. Percy was very much in love with LJ, and LJ loved him to, but didn't realize it at first. The two of them had plans to go to Italy together during the winter, to have privacy and spend more time alone. After serving a few months at war in France together, LJ and Percy planned to both leave a party separately when no one was looking and join back at LJ's room for some alone time. LJ was out and about and ran into some fellow officers one on his way to collect a book from LJ, and LJ went to his room to get it and when he opened the door Percy was "getting it" by a German officer. LJ had no choice but to have both men arrested, since so many were witness to it.
Percy ended up going to jail, but John couldn't bring himself to be around him, he was heart broken, so only saw him one time. He told LJ he was blackmailed into sex with the officer who threatened to expose him. LJ told Percy he could have taken care of the guy, but Percy was worried about exposing LJ. John felt that he couldn't just sit back and do nothing to help Percy. LJ confided in Jamie, to ask what the honorable thing would be, and told Jamie that he was as guilty as Percy, just didn't get caught and that Percy was his lover. Jamie told him a man can't love a man as a man loves a woman, but only as kin. Regardless, any kin should receive the protection of their family. SO, without anyone knowing he arranged for him to be smuggled out of jail and replaced with a very recently deceased corpse. The family had a funeral and all believed him to be dead. Percy wrote John from Italy, letting him know he was there, and to say goodbye.
I think to some Percy is seen as a bit villainous in Echo, which I don't think he is, cause he wasn't so in Brotherhood. I think LJ is taken back, never expected to see him again, but still was bitter about the terms of their separation. Also, he has to make sure that there aren't any loose ends connecting him to the fact that Percy is alive. This is why he is anxious to tell Hal about Percy, not because Percy an evil manipulator (my opinion) but that there was such a strong and intimate connection between him and LJ. Younger Percy had grown up poor, very religious, not until his father died and mom remarried did he come into money. But he was always a nice kid, just had some tough times in life.
Hope that helps!
Just finished ECHO myself. Took me time to get into it, which is quite a different experience than I had with the other books in the series. There were parts that did not really appeal as much as others I have to admit, but still, I enjoyed it and seriously look forward to the next one. Now I have to go back and read the whole lot again.As I have seen others say (I don't have time to read all the posts here as a newcomer to the boards) I felt there was too much reference to the LJ books. I did read the first two but can't bring myself to read anymore as I am a self confessed homophobic when it comes to descriptions of the love making. I don't mind them doing it but I prefer not to read about how so have chosen not to read anymore of this series (until someone gives me a censored version). The story lines are good but............ I squirm. Sorry, I hope I have not offended anyone, that was not my intention.
It took me nearly two months to finish - i really have loved all the series but i found that i got a bit bogged down in the middle of this book and ended up putting it down for a month and finally picked it up again and enjoyed the second half. It was an exciting ending but frustrating. I agree there was a little too much LJG and William but am looking forward to the 8th book and i think i should read the LJG series - hopefully there might be a bit of Claire and Jamie in there.
Jenjen wrote: "It took me nearly two months to finish - i really have loved all the series but i found that i got a bit bogged down in the middle of this book and ended up putting it down for a month and finally ..."There's no Claire and Jamie in the LJG books as the stories focus mainly on John in the years after Culloden but before his time at Ardsmuir.
ok - so i was originally reading Echo on my kindle and i think because i couldn't flip back and forth on pages as easy that it was harder for me - so I went and bought in from B&N - but with everything going on, its still on the TBR pile! but i'm listening to the series again on audiobook as i drive into work in the am (its about an hour each way, so the book lasts me nearly a month) - about to start voyager; and got fiery cross on CD (be the unabridged isn't available on audible) - will complete the series on audiobooks and debating the LJG series on audio - i tried reading and couldn't get into them, but wondering if they would be good in audio format?will try the book again - hopefully it gets better! i might take it with me when i fly to phoenix in a few weeks since its a long flight
Deanna wrote: "ok - so i was originally reading Echo on my kindle and i think because i couldn't flip back and forth on pages as easy that it was harder for me - so I went and bought in from B&N - but with everyt..."Try the library, I've found the 3 local libraries have all the audio books unabridged. That could be because DG is from Arizona, but they are popular regardless. I'd check into that if I were you.
I just finished Echo last night. I have to agree with most everyone here. It took me a bit to get into the book. I felt I was a bit lost to some of the information/storyline that was going. I attributed part of that to the fact that's in been awhile since I read the last book. I also had expected a bit more of a storyline with Roger and Bree. I didn't quite understand how they got all the letters from Claire and Jamie. were they just stored somewhere and they found them when they moved to Lollybroch?
It was nice to learn a little more about Lord John. I did pick up that series to read just to find out more about him.
Overall it wasn't my favorite in the series and it really leaves quite a lot of loose ends, but it was a good read. I got my Jamie/Claire fix for the most part. I'm not overly thrilled we have to wait until 2013 for the next one but guess we can't rush a good story.
i got the book, but i'll get it on audiobook through audible so i have it to listen too again...plus there is a challenge over on the romance readers challenge to get rid of your chunky books (aka, ones more than 450 pages...) - so i might use echo for thatJessica wrote: "Deanna wrote: "ok - so i was originally reading Echo on my kindle and i think because i couldn't flip back and forth on pages as easy that it was harder for me - so I went and bought in from B&N - ..."
Catheaven (I don't know how to do that Catheaven write thing). It was in ABofS&A that it explains how Roger and Bree found the letters. I can't quite recall it all and my sis has my copy of the book so I can't check. I believe they were in one of the boxes in storage in Roger's Uncle's garage. It was quite a find so they took the box to Lallybroch.
Okay, I'm a moron... What is abridged... vs unabridged????
Rosella wrote: "Catheaven (I don't know how to do that Catheaven write thing). It was in ABofS&A that it explains how Roger and Bree found the letters. I can't quite recall it all and my sis has my copy of the boo..."The box had been kept in the lawyer's office that the family had used in Scotland.
Rosella wrote: "Catheaven (I don't know how to do that Catheaven write thing). It was in ABofS&A that it explains how Roger and Bree found the letters. I can't quite recall it all and my sis has my copy of the boo..."You're not a moron... I didn't know either. I rented an audio book for Voyager and it only had 5 discs. I listened to the first two and thought, 'wow, this is a short book' but it wasn't, it was an abridged audio book. So in other words, an abridged copy is a condensed version... (lacks all the good details) where is an unabridged is a verbatim reading of the book.
Jessica wrote: "Rosella wrote: "Catheaven (I don't know how to do that Catheaven write thing). It was in ABofS&A that it explains how Roger and Bree found the letters. I can't quite recall it all and my sis has my..."Wow! Good To Know... Thanks.. That would suck if I went and bought a condensed version... Dontcha be skimping on anything Jamie and Claire.... lol
if you are going to buy the audiobooks, go with the davina porter narrated ones - she does an awesome job! the abridged ones are done by geraldine something (I can't remember her name for the life of me!!) - audible has all but firey cross and ABOSAA in unabridged (soemthing do to with the digital rights and they are hoping to get them this year)
I had issues making it through EITB, something I've never experinced with any of the other Outlander books. It was bored with much of it, frankly. It felt too much like the Lord John books, of which I could only read half the first one, it was so boring. And I love Diana so I hated to feel this way, but honestly it was so boring I can't even eremember much about how it ends I really don't want to reread it!
I can't understand why anyone thinks that not liking this book is akin to not liking Diana? Although I really don't respect the attempt to get me to buy the LJ books by putting so much of him in this book. I refuse. Tell me about Jamie and Claire and leave LJ's intrigues in the LJ books where they belong.Oh, and Rosella I agree with you completely. MUST be my homophobia. ;)
Renee wrote: "I can't understand why anyone thinks that not liking this book is akin to not liking Diana? Although I really don't respect the attempt to get me to buy the LJ books by putting so much of him in th..."When someone first made that comment, I had to laugh. I can't imagine that Diana would have put him in the book for such a reason. That is beneath her in my opinion.
There was a comment somewhere that Diana said don't worry about Jem in the tunnel.
I'm wondering if Roger might land in the tunnel - or where ever Jem goes (reference to spoiler that seems to show that Jem may find the door out of the tunnel) since part of the thing about getting where you want in the time travel has been to concentrate on the person you want to go to.
I don't think it's beneath her. She's done it hasn't she? Why else spend so much time on him in Echo? Why bring in Percy and that niece of his? Then go on to say 'Well, you have to have read the LJ books.'? I've been told that by Diana. It's more than obvious he's there to spark more interest in the LJ series. Writing is a business. And with today's economy publisher's want sales. That makes me more angry than the Claire/LJ scene.Umm, not to mention dropping the info about the French girl. Oh, but you can't find out what that's about unless you read or buy the graphic novel. It's beneath her? I don't think so.
Renee wrote: "I don't think it's beneath her. She's done it hasn't she? Why else spend so much time on him in Echo? Why bring in Percy and that niece of his? Then go on to say 'Well, you have to have read the LJ..."We all have to agree to disagree, don't we.
Sally wrote: "28th Feb 10: Kelly wrote the book should have been Echo in the Bone and LJG bookI was worried that EB would be too much Jamie and Claire and found this book had moved on. Claire the eternal flora..."
Lynda wrote: "Renee wrote: "I can't understand why anyone thinks that not liking this book is akin to not liking Diana? Although I really don't respect the attempt to get me to buy the LJ books by putting so muc..."
Where did Diana say don't worry about Jem in the tunnel? If she said that I feel better. Since finishing Echo in November I have been most worried about Jem in the tunnel until 2013.
Sally wrote: "28th Feb 10: Kelly wrote the book should have been Echo in the Bone and LJG bookI was worried that EB would be too much Jamie and Claire and found this book had moved on. Claire the eternal flora..."
Sorry I goofed on that last post...meant to reply to Sally that you have an amazing memory. When did the family tree say William would die? And I am just blanking on Robert. Who was he? Echo was not as memorable to me as the other books. Too much. By the way, I love Lord John, and yes, his carnal knowledge of Claire was weird, but not inexplicable, as I have commented in other discussions.
Renee wrote: "I don't think it's beneath her. She's done it hasn't she? Why else spend so much time on him in Echo? Why bring in Percy and that niece of his? Then go on to say 'Well, you have to have read the LJ..."I must say that I agree with you, I felt after reading Echo that I needed to go out and buy the LJG series to get "caught up" unfortunatly, I can't get into this series at all....and so they sit unread on my shelf. Business is Business that's for sure..
Lynda wrote: "Renee wrote: "I don't think it's beneath her. She's done it hasn't she? Why else spend so much time on him in Echo? Why bring in Percy and that niece of his? Then go on to say 'Well, you have to ha..."Not really since I've laid my case out pretty well.
Cynthia- Right. You shouldn't be forced to read something you've no interest in. This is NOT the story of Lord John.
My opinion, after reading what DG writes about LJ in her blogs and such, is that she enjoys him as a character and enjoys telling his story. I have to assume that she is in a position to only take on projects she actually likes. So while there is no accounting for taste :), I don't think LJ is a business venture.With the exception of the Percy storyline, which only appeared in one LJ book, I didn't think that the LJ books were all that pertinent to EITB or the other Outlander novels.
Of course they were. There was Percy. What the heck are you supposed to do with that if you haven't read the LJ books? Who the heck is Percy and why is he there? That was set up to get people to read the LJ books. Otherwise he was an unnecessary addition to this book.
Sally wrote: "28th Feb 10: Kelly wrote the book should have been Echo in the Bone and LJG bookI was worried that EB would be too much Jamie and Claire and found this book had moved on. Claire the eternal flora..."
Sally wrote: "28th Feb 10: Kelly wrote the book should have been Echo in the Bone and LJG book
I was worried that EB would be too much Jamie and Claire and found this book had moved on. Claire the eternal flora..."
Sorry but I have to ask again, because I may have misunderstood your post: You were talking about Bree going back and meeting William, then said "William will be dead according to the family tree." What??
I agree with Christina Rae about the LJG books. I really don't think Diana is out to get our buck. In fact, I believe I read in the introduction to one of the LJG books, that her publisher wanted to charge a larger amount of money for one of the short stories, and she couldn't bring herself to do it. So, she put a few stories together into one book to give it more bang for the buck. Also, I'm really glad that I read the books. But I'm one of the few that really, really likes John. But, I feel like people will be just fine if they don't read the book that involves Percy. If you really don't like John, then you won't like the books. And all you really have to know is that Percy was once John's lover. If you don't want to read the books, perhaps start a LJG thread and those of us who have read them can fill you in on what happens. I personally really liked Percy in the 2nd LJG book and was quite confused as to how "bad" Diana made him seem in Echo.
Rachel I too love LJG and his books. I was rooting for Percy but Percy DID John very wrong. John is sincerely a great person and handled it all with grace. I just want to say to all the people that feel that they might have to read the LJG books because they think something will not make sense or they will be missing something in the Outlander Novels it is not true. Jamie is VERY little in LJG's books and Claire's name is mentioned maybe twice. I feel the LJ books were written just for his fans and he has a lot of them. I'm one : )
You put it perfectly, Heather. That was the general point I was trying to make.
Thanks! I will start a thread if I could figure out how!!!! lol
YES! Exactly! You really don't HAVE to read these books to understand Echo. And yes, I agree Heather. Percy did do John wrong. But, he was coerced into it. And I really felt that Percy felt sorry for his actions. And I really felt that Percy did love John. But in Echo, Percy came off as so sleazy and I never considered him to be sleazy in BOTB. I am hoping that they re-spark their relationship, but that will probably be difficult seeing as Percy is now married. But you never know!!Perhaps we should start a LJG thread, because I actually was quite confused with some of the storylines. Particularly the first novel, and the conspiracy theory regarding John's father. I don't know, I just felt like I couldn't keep up with all the names and such.
I love this discussion group so much...it keeps me going until the next book comes out. Three years, ugh...
Ughhh, your right! Well I did start a thread. I am so nervous about it as I never started one before. There are many things I want to discuss also about LJG so let's get it started!LOL, since I have been a member here I sit with all the books on my side ready to pick them up as a weapon! LOL, I'll grab my LJG books and be ready!
YAY! Haha, thats so funny about your books as a weapon. Unfortunately, I'm at work when I'm checking these discussion groups as my computer at home has officially stopped working. I'm not even supposed to be online in general, but can't help myself when it comes to all things Diana Gabaldon. Once I get a new computer, I'll be able to reference my books. I'm currently listening to the audio books. I'm on #2, but am very upset as to how expensive #4 and 5 are to buy. Oh well. Yes, I'll join your discussion group about John! What did you entitle the thread?
I am at work too and by the time I clear my history I am ready to jump back on again to make sure I haven't missed anything. lol .... Pressure!Titled
topic: miscellaneous > LJG ... What does he mean to you? / Possible Spoilers
I think we all can have fun with it. :)
It took me months to finish EITB. I read less than 1/4 of it and just couldn't keep reading, so I bought it on aubidle and listened to it while I worked out, painted walls, etc. Way too much detail about Willie, LJ and people other than J & C, R & B.
I also have been reading all the posts. I know we can go back and re-read the series, but isn't it sad to see it all end. I just love these characters! Last Christmas my husband finally got me something that was truely thought out and only for me, he got me the the ring Jaime gave Claire for their wedding!