Outlander Series discussion
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anyone having problems with Echo?
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ChristinaRae
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Nov 20, 2009 06:33PM
The biggest problem that I have with Echo is that I don't want to re-read it. Any of the others peak my interest; I can pick one up and read a few random pages in the middle of the book and be gratified. But Echo feels like a chore!
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I sure agree with you about picking up a book and reading random pages to get an "outlander fix".When I started reading Echo, it took a few pages to get into it but then I was hooked. I of course wish Echo had more Jamie and Claire but I feel like I got to know Ian, William, Bree and Roger better. I gained insight into Lord John by reading his series and also got a "Jamie fix" from that series too.
I look forward to rereading Echo because so much happens throughout the book and I'll pick up details I missed th first time through.
I just joined this discussion group, and have just finished "Echo." I was disappointed in the lagging middle and then so many loose ends left at the end of the book! I agree the book was way too choppy and jumped around too much. Saying so makes me feel disloyal to DG, but it is the truth. That said, I've been reading and re-reading the Outlander series since the early 90's, and have all the books and all of the audio CDs. They are wonderful to listen to while cooking, driving, etc. Kind of like how my kids listen to 'Harry Potter!' I hope the next book comes out soon, especially with the way Jamie and Claire were left-and what about Jemmy and Roger?
I thought Claire did it because she thought Jamie was dead and thought she didn't care about endangering herself. But what about Fergus and his family though? Wasn't some of the stuff happening through their business?
Immunity for Fergus' family was part of the reason Claire went through with the marriage; she took on the role of spy because she thought no one would suspect her [in her advanced age:]. It does seem like a shift in her thinking; wasn't she all about keeping Jaime out of the war?
I thought there needed to be a little more detail and explanation surrounding the whole spy thing. It really seemed as though she went from thinking about doing it to be in danger of being arrested for it without any further explanation as to how she got involved and if she even thought about the effect it would have on Jamie or Fergus' family.
Didn't she already think Jamie was dead?
I was under the impression that she had been doing it before she thought Jamie was dead.
She was spying before she thought Jaime dead. I agree that more details were needed in this section of the book. I skipped over much of the ship-hopping nonsense when they tried to leave for Scotland; more than enough detail there!
The only problem that I came across so far (not quite halfway through) is keeping dates straight. Initially DG is talking about William app. 6 months behind where Jamie and Claire are. I am trying to get the big picture in my head, and the timeline keeps me on my toes.
Well, in general I had trouble with the book jumping around, especially during the first half. At the end, I could have screamed in frustration over all of the loose ends! She is certainly setting us up for the next book, but I can't imagine waiting that long. This seemed like a transition book. Other series have had them too--books that aren't as interesting, but move the story along from point a to point b. I thought she was developing other characters so that she can continue the books past Clair and Jamie. I was interested in all the characters by the end of the book too. And all of the plot twists. Roger's ancestor coming to the present was quite a surprise!! And there are so many unanswered questions. I do think I might have to make several family tree posters to follow all of it, though.
I know she is working on it, but we are all ready for an Outlandish Companion Part 2!
Deanna wrote: "ok, i'm going to preface this by saying i've loved all of DG's other books and devoured them when I read them, but for some reason, I've having problems getting into An Echo In The Bone - i've prob..."I was disappointed in this book as well. The "four pronged" storyline is confusing and none of them wrap up satisfactorily, this book just.......stops. This would not be a problem if there was another book to continue the story immediately available, but there is not and the reader is left feeling cheated. I also think that some jumping back and forth through time to follow the lives in the present and the past is acceptable; she tried to do too much of that in this book so there is not a complete "story arc" but just a bunch of vingettes bound together by the cover of the book and not an involving story that you can follow from one chapter to the next.
Mini wrote: "Well, in general I had trouble with the book jumping around, especially during the first half. At the end, I could have screamed in frustration over all of the loose ends! She is certainly settin..."I think this may have been mentioned already but at her Mountain View book signing in October, Diana said that some people thought A Breath of Snow and Ashes was the last book. She wanted to make sure nobody had that impression this time so she purposely left a lot of loose ends that would be resolved in the next book.
Sure looking forward to the next book!
Echo could have been so much more. With not too much effort the book could have been expanded to two novels and we wouldn't have to wait for the loose ends to be resolved. I finished the book feeling like Diana did not give this her best.
Chantal wrote: "I figured that Claire did the spying, (ie. smuggling seditious pamphlets) because it seemed like she was carrying on with Jamie's efforts in his absence. And,I agree that it seemed sudden and extr..."She is a very strong person however, I think her family and especially Jamie have always been the core of her strength. Brianna and Roger are gone and with Jamie being gone there is really nothing left for her in the 18th Century. I can undersand why she would be so despondant.
IF I had been Claire and believed Jamie really to be dead....I would be headin for the stones! I would be trying to get back to Bree, Roger and the kids pronto. What would she have to loose at that point?
I think Diana makes traveling through the stones horrible for them b/c she doesn't just want them hopping back and forth, traveling through time. They're scared of the stones, they don't know for sure how many times a person can travel through them and it's a risk they've taken when they see no other way. Given time I believe Claire might have tried, but it's not something she can take lightly. It's a horrifying thought and scares them all to death when they even think about the stones. I've always thought the same thing - go back!!! But, remember how difficult a journey it really is and seems to be a key to these books. It's not an easy trip and you can't just do it every time you feel like it.
Deanna wrote: "ok, i'm going to preface this by saying i've loved all of DG's other books and devoured them when I read them, but for some reason, I've having problems getting into An Echo In The Bone - i've prob..."Things pick up to a fast pace in the last 100 or so pages and then....you'll find out. I read the book first and am now in my second round of listening to it. It grows on you with time, at least it did with me. It's shear frustration to have to wait for the next in the series.
Frani wrote: "Deanna wrote: "ok, i'm going to preface this by saying i've loved all of DG's other books and devoured them when I read them, but for some reason, I've having problems getting into An Echo In The B..."i think i'm going to buy the real book when i get home vice the kindle version and try reading it that way!
Gina wrote: "I just joined this discussion group, and have just finished "Echo." I was disappointed in the lagging middle and then so many loose ends left at the end of the book! I agree the book was way too c..."I am so glad to learn that others re-read/listen to this series over and over. The characters are great and their relationships and interactions with one another so wonderful, and the humor!
I'm on my third go-round right now. I'm also listening to Lord John Grey and the Private Affair. The narrator is really good, not as good as Davina Porter but good. I wonder what she did with his voice in Echo? Now I'll only hear him as this guy and it may throw me off.
I loved Echo it was hard to bear reading though I became so interested in the story I'd be reading then swiftly taken off course by the next story and couldn't wait to find out what happened in either totally suspenseful but very good however now that I finished it I'm sad because there were so many loose ends and I know I'll have to wait forever and a day for the next book, I hope she has already started writing it if not finished it and that it will come out soon...but I fear I won't be so lucky as all that. All in all excellent minus of course my desperately wanting to know what happens next with Jem,let alone all of them especially Claire and Jaime.
Wendy wrote: "I read as many books as I can on my iphone using ereader. Been using ereader on my phone even before I switched to the iphone. there is a way to bookmark pages and search using key words. I've gott..."as to #1 I think the rob Cameron thing was explained but not adequately. I believe they said he being interested in those things probably ran across Gellis Duncan which I believe is exactly what happened knowing her he would have known about the stones and I don Not believe he read all the letters since the rest were still unopened the first one would have let him know they were time travelers and therefore put two and two together the letter he took was the first one I believe he just rifled through the rest. However I'm sure since she didn't get too deep into it the exact reasoning behind it will be put in the next book.
#2 I completely agree Roger is a whiner it is a bit obnoxious but I suppose to each his own.
#3 I don't believe they intended to fight in the war it simply was a misadventure if you recall they were set off there original course by the British overcoming there ship and the other being destroyed, to which Jaime signed the into the army as a commander simply to save the skin of the Mr.Smith who was a British deserter from being hanged because he had been helpful to him and his family when they pirated the other ship, Jaime being Jaime of course did what he thought was right and his enlistment contract was almost up when Ticonderoga fell, remember Claire saying he probably would have deserted before it fell had it not been for him waiting for Ian to return from seeing Emily. If you haven't noticed yet Jaime and Claire really do have the worst luck ever.
As to #4 The main plot is about their life and all the things that happen in it I don't suppose a real persons life is really any different, minus of course all the disasters which would normally be more like minor set backs for real live person. So it all makes since to me, depends on what you expect from it I suppose, I am in no way knocking your opinion just stating my own thoughts.
And as to the last for the last book I see your point Jaime and Claire's story can not go on forever given they are getting up there, but I think it's nice to see the whole story it's rarely ever told everyone always has a bloody happy ending and truly it's never like that in real life. To see that they do have hardships and fights and still choose to be deeply devoted and love each other despite that I enjoy the story not to mention the history while the main people may be fictional they things they do the way they live there life is real and i being a great fan of history love to read these books and see them come to life I can imagine it as it was. So I guess while I know it must end I certainly will be sad when it does.
Carol wrote: "I love the comments about Jamie and Claire's ages, health issues, etc. I am about the same age as I assume Claire is (she was 27 in Outlander in 1743, and it is now 1776. (I am 58)Claire is 60 and..."My most humorous part was Dottie in the damed potato sack showing up think this was what Quakers wore for plain clothing I almost died at that, when Rachel said she needn't uglify herself.
Wendy wrote: "Cynthia wrote: "I just finished Echo last night, I tried to read it slow but found it to be very disconnected especially the first 600 pages or so! I have not read the LJG books due to the fact tha..."It wasn't Jenny's farm anymore it was young Jaime's and unfortunately that's kind of how it was back then the women didn't inherit there husbands things unless there were no grown male heirs. She left mainly to because there would be no real place for her she couldn't run the farm as the lady of the house being that was now Young Jaime's wife's place..while I'm sure they would not have kicked her out she would have felt useless and given Ian's death you'd need something to do to keep from going insane so she set off to make a life for herself to be useful somewhere.
Amyb wrote: "I agree that the parts with Lord John and William were a little dry...i also wish more of the book had been devoted to the Bree/Roger/Jem storyline, as well as more about Claire and Jamie, as that ..."I am glad to here I am not the only one who found Fiery Cross the Hardest to get through there was such a lengthy slow pace in the middle that I had to put it down for a couple of months before I picked it back up to read.
Leah wrote: "Wendy wrote: "Cynthia wrote: "I just finished Echo last night, I tried to read it slow but found it to be very disconnected especially the first 600 pages or so! I have not read the LJG books due t..."I agree that it makes sense for Jenny to leave Lallybroch. It really isn't hers and her children there are grown and she has been able to see them grow. I thought she was a little sad when she told Claire that she had never been outside of a few miles from Lallybroch and that she would like to see more of the world. Now she has reason to go. To see Ian and be of some help to him and maybe to Jamie as well as to be helpful to Fergus and Marsali.
Leah wrote: "Amyb wrote: "I agree that the parts with Lord John and William were a little dry...i also wish more of the book had been devoted to the Bree/Roger/Jem storyline, as well as more about Claire and Ja..."I started to read the series over again before I read "Echo...". I am really slowed down by Fiery Cross. I am in the middle and just want to close it and start the next. I don't remember feeling that way when I read it the first time. I am also reading the Troubleshooter series by Brockman as suggested as another series to read. Yes, I read more than one book at a time. I read on kindle, but also want another book that can be read in the bath tub.
I love this whole series but I had an awful time getting thru this book. Way too much historical information and not enough story about Jamie and Claire. They are the reason why we read these books!!! If I want to read a history book then I will!!We had a long wait for this book and I for one think it was a disappointment. It only got exciting at the very end and then it was THE END! Now we have to wait how many more years for another book? And pray it's more character driven?! And not Lord John driven!
We are wait to see what the next Jamie and Claire adventure is! Not to see what Lord John is doing or the Quakers! Concentrate on Jamie and Claire!
And how disappointing to see Claire marry and move on with John. Yes, she did it for protection but hello? How about some major grieving for the one that you left your life and daughter for? This is the love of your life and the one that you gave everything for... and yet we couldn't even get some decent grieving time.
Too much actual drama that would have interested the readers in too much of a rush at the end!
I was rereading Outlander this weekend (for the 20th time I swear,lol) and was at the point were Claire is asking Jamie who he thought she was after they were married. He told her she would make a very poor spy bacause "everything you think shows on your face." which made me think of echo....why would she spy, she has always been so easy to read! Just a random thought to think about....
Ruth wrote: "Leah wrote: "Amyb wrote: "I agree that the parts with Lord John and William were a little dry...i also wish more of the book had been devoted to the Bree/Roger/Jem storyline, as well as more about ..."Oh I thought the Fiery Cross was excruciating until the last 1/3 of the book. Of the series, TFC and Echo are my least favorite by far. But I will keep plugging on.
Megan wrote: "I was rereading Outlander this weekend (for the 20th time I swear,lol) and was at the point were Claire is asking Jamie who he thought she was after they were married. He told her she would make a..."The lack of plot or story direction (emphasis on the Jamie/Claire story) does make you want to go back and reread the first 3 stories just to reconnect with the characters.
Jenna wrote: "Megan wrote: "I was rereading Outlander this weekend (for the 20th time I swear,lol) and was at the point were Claire is asking Jamie who he thought she was after they were married. He told her sh..."I have read Outlander it's self twice and i love that book it is by far my favorite. I stumbled upon it by complete accident I found it in the library and though hey this sounds good...being a huge fan of all things Scottish. I read it but I never knew there were more books until i stumbled upon those i have no idea how and was oh my god there are like 5 more of these. So I started over and read them all...I though The Breath of Snow and Ashes and Outlander by its self had a good stopping point ones that I could live with...i really didn't think about the ending of the other four I guess because they were already written a and there for me to read....But Echo oh I'm going to be tortured for how many years not knowing...that's painful haha.
I think we need to quit picking on Roger!:) Can you imagine how it would be for a guy to have lived in the 18th century and then come back? He enjoyed the elevated status men had at that time, had been valued for his strength and physical labor, experienced the limited-bathing, camping-out quality of life, enjoyed the status of preacher (the arm of God, back when everyone believed), and he had the use of swords and firearms!! It sounds like guy heaven to me. (My 7yo told me he wishes he could have lived back then, for some of those reasons)
oh I love Roger! I think he's a great character and love what a good father and husband he is. Who's picking on Roger??
Christy wrote: "oh I love Roger! I think he's a great character and love what a good father and husband he is. Who's picking on Roger??"Some people were saying he's a whiner. I think he's done OK considering how much DG picks on him.
Haha! It's true, we do pick on Roger. But he definitely grew on me in Echo, which is why I didn't partake in the coversation until now. In the previous books, he's always been at least one step behind everyone - just as he's figured out what's going on, what needs to happen, etc, everything changes again. He seems to whine incessantly in the 18th century and then can't come to grips with the 20th c. either! Echo is the first time I've actually been interested in Roger and Brianna's storyline in part because Roger seems to finally commit to living in the present.
Roger certainly is in a quandary about whether or not to go ahead with becoming a minister. That has to be hard to say the least. He is trying to see how he fits in again. He enjoys teaching gaelic - maybe he could return to teaching - although leaving earlier may have put a black mark against being hired again. The angst does get a little tiresome. Since he is in a situation in which he can take the time to "recover," he is. Women with children don't have time for that. DG will let some things go on and others - like the end of the book just blink by
Gina wrote: "I just joined this discussion group, and have just finished "Echo." I was disappointed in the lagging middle and then so many loose ends left at the end of the book! I agree the book was way too c..."I so agree with you!
Megan wrote: "I was rereading Outlander this weekend (for the 20th time I swear,lol) and was at the point were Claire is asking Jamie who he thought she was after they were married. He told her she would make a..."good thought so true!
Deanna wrote: "ok, i'm going to preface this by saying i've loved all of DG's other books and devoured them when I read them, but for some reason, I've having problems getting into An Echo In The Bone - i've prob..."
Sorry bout the empty post.... I have to agree w/ you...it wasn't just grad school - it was the hardest one of the Outlander series for me also. It took me several weeks and more than one restart to get thru it. I absolutely love her books but am lost w/ so many loose ends.....and a long wait for the next one.
Kelly wrote: "The title should have Been Echo in the Bone a Lord John Book!
Way to much William and LJ. Not enough Jamie and Claire!"
I expected much more on Brianna, Roger and kids.
Pam wrote: "I kinda felt like it was a commercial to read the Lord John books. Who is Percy anyway??"
Percy is Lord Johns Step brother and if I remember correctly they were lovers in Lord John and the Brotherhood of the blade - please correct me if I am wrong:)
Christy wrote: "I agree that Percy came out of left field. I do not agree that there was a perfectly good explanation of who he was in Echo. I think it's crap that she included a character from the Lord John boo..."Percy is his STEP brother - his mother gets married to Percy's STEP father during the book. Percy's mother had died after marrying the step father.
Bethany wrote: "My thoughts on the question of overarching plot: Ages back, we find out that Geillie new about some prophecy regarding the next Scots-not-English ruler, and that it was to be a descendant of Jamie..."One thing on it being Jamie's descendant...couldn't it just as easily be WILLIAM's descendants that will be the next scot's not english ruler?
Anastasia wrote: "Sorry bout the empty post.... I have to agree w/ you...it wasn't just grad school - it was the hardest one of the Outlander series for me also. It took me several weeks and more than one restart to..."I agree with you as I have voiced before on this post regarding EITB. I broke down and bought Private Matter and BOTB. PM is a small novel...I can't finish it I hate it!!! I thought I would get caught up on these other characters...not going to happen..yuk.. but I do LOVE all of DG's other books!!!! I don't know what is wrong with me!!
Actually I thought PM was ok....didn't like the hand of devils too much tho. But you are right about not getting into the characters. I keep comparing them to Jamie and Claire etc. - no comparison!!Nothing is wrong with you !!
ChristinaRae wrote: "The biggest problem that I have with Echo is that I don't want to re-read it. Any of the others peak my interest; I can pick one up and read a few random pages in the middle of the book and be gra..."Yes - - there was too much about the war and not enough about Claire, Janie, Roger & Brianna.
