[OPEN since 10/23] Missing number of pages, obscure item

[Michael]

Can you add the page count (112) to this item? The URL is https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...

The page count source is an eBay seller. That's the only source I could find for the page count after an extensive search. I used to own this item; the page count is reasonable.

This is a multimedia package (comprising 6 audio cassette tapes, 4 manuals, a workbook, a course book, and more); it is not a traditional book with ISBN or audio book. However, it does have a single, primary book. I have exhaustively searched WorldCat, Amazon, and more using traditional web searches and AI. I found the primary manual on sale at eBay and asked the seller for the page count. (The WorldCat listing does not include a page count.)

EDIT: I cannot locate an ISBN. The ASIN (included in the listing) is B00H3XK62Y.

Thank you!

[Laura]

Is this not the same book as the following;
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...

Also could you provide the ebay listing?

[Michael]

Sorry, I think that I mistakenly deleted the URL to the eBay listing when I edited my post. Here is the link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/236374872842

To be clear, the eBay listing does not have the page count; I messaged the seller, who gave me the page count.

No, the two books are different. This item is the "sequel" book or part II; it covers options on futures. The first book, which uses the expansion of the acronym (The World's Most Powerful Money Manual), is an introductory course that only covers futures trading, not options. The Ken Roberts Company produced and marketed both packages, each of which contained a primary book, along with other multimedia materials.

If this is not adequate, I understand. The book has no ISBN and only an abbreviated WorldCat listing. I also cannot find it on Internet Archive. I used to own both packages but gave them away decades ago.

[Michael]

Is there sufficient information here to add the page count (112) to this book?

As I wrote, it's not on Amazon, but it does have a short entry in WorldCat; there's no publisher page for it; I haven't found it in libraries; and it's not listed in other traditional sources. I think that this data source is the best we can possibly do. Having read and owned the book and seen its picture on eBay, the page count seems reasonable to me.

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

Michael wrote: "Is there sufficient information here to add the page count (112) to this book?

As I wrote, it's not in WorldCat or Amazon; there's no publisher page for it; I haven't found it in libraries; and it..."
Hi Michael

I don't think this is a valid listing, but I am going to check before marking as invalid. Unfortunately of invalid things are being imported from Amazon now.

Also Ebay is not an allowed source for book information & being the only source a member can find doesn't make it valid. All a question of copyright.

[Michael]

Thanks for replying. I don't understand the part about "being imported from Amazon." I agree that there's no listing in traditional sources, but I don't understand the notion of a listing being "valid" or "invalid."

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

Michael wrote: "Thanks for replying. I don't understand the part about "being imported from Amazon." I agree that there's no listing in traditional sources, but I don't understand the notion of a listing being "va..."

Unfortunately being listed on this site doesn't items should be on the site. The vast majority of items are imported by bots from Amazon & we had a stage when they were importing things like DVDs, drink thermoses, etc. So invalid means it shouldn't be on the site.

I've had an answer, but it isn't clear to me, so I have to wait for my friend to get back to me.

[Scott]

This seems to be a course on tape not a book. I agree that it should be marked invalid.

There are a bunch of them...

https://www.goodreads.com/search?q=TW...

[Michael]

Scott wrote: "This seems to be a course on tape not a book. I agree that it should be marked invalid.

There are a bunch of them...

https://www.goodreads.com/search?q=TW..."
It is a course. The course includes a 100+ page printed book (again, with no ISBN and a very short WorldCat listing, as detailed above). It ALSO has multimedia materials such as cassette tapes and supplemental written materials.

[Michael]

Here is a WorldCat entry: https://search.worldcat.org/title/549...
Note that it says that the entry's "physical description" is "6 audiocassettes : analog + 2 videocassettes + 5 texts." One of the 5 texts is a 100+ page paperback book. The overall category is "Audiobook on Cassette," surely because there's no way to provide multiple categories (book AND audiocassettes AND video tapes AND reference manuals).

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

Michael wrote: "Here is a WorldCat entry: https://search.worldcat.org/title/549...
Note that it says that the entry's "physical description" is "6 audiocassettes : analog + 2 videocassettes + 5 ..."

Hi Michael

Although we use World Cat to check details, being on World Cat doesn't necessarily mean that this work is valid on Goodreads. I think the Moderator (who is staff) should rule on this one.

At this time of year there may not be a quick response, sorry.

[Michael]

Thanks for all the replies. At least we know several things:
1. It has a WorldCat entry.
2. It is not a bot-imported item from Amazon (it has no Amazon presence).
3. It is not merely an audiocassette or other type of non-book item.
4. It is a course that includes a paperback book and other materials.
5. No one has yet found a page count in traditional sources, but the page count that I found makes sense.

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

Michael wrote: "Thanks for all the replies. At least we know several things:
1. It has a WorldCat entry.
2. It is not a bot-imported item from Amazon (it has no Amazon presence).
3. It is not merely an audiocasset..."

It was imported by the amazon_catalog bot April 18 2023. Librarians & staff can see more than regular members can. It was likely something being sold secondhand at the time.

[Michael]

Thanks again for another quick reply.

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

Michael wrote: "Thanks again for another quick reply."

Hi Michael

The Moderator has ruled this is invalid.
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

It will remain on your shelves but can't be edited.

I've marked (with one exception I want to check out later) the examples found by the other two librarians as invalid as well.

Sorry about that.

[Michael]

Thanks for the feedback.

If this book were not listed anywhere in Goodreads (i.e., no past bot importing from Amazon), and I made a post in the appropriate new books thread, citing the WorldCat entry, what would happen? Would it be listed?

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

Michael wrote: "Thanks for the feedback.

If this book were not listed anywhere in Goodreads (i.e., no past bot importing from Amazon), and I made a post in the appropriate new books thread, citing the WorldCat en..."

Hi Michael

I'm not sure why you think this would make an item Goodreads considered invalid, valid. Being on World Cat doesn't necessarily mean an item qualifies to be on Goodreads. World Cat is just the best site to confirm details like page counts.

If you remove the present listing from your shelves you won't be able to get it back.

[Michael]

Carol, you've mischaracterized my post. Can we discuss off line? I don't want to make this thread too wordy for everyone. If there's no way to discuss off line (PM or DM), then I'll post my reply here.

To be clear: I didn't make any claim about making an invalid item valid and I have nothing invested in whether this book is determined to be valid or invalid.

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

Michael wrote: "Carol, you've mischaracterized my post. Can we discuss off line? I don't want to make this thread too wordy for everyone. If there's no way to discuss off line (PM or DM), then I'll post my reply here.

To be clear: I didn't make any claim about making an invalid item valid and I have nothing invested in whether this book is determined to be valid or invalid.

I don't know if you realise this but we are all volunteers here other than the moderators. If you want to query her ruling you should make a post in this folder
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/group...
& give a link to this thread.

[Michael]

Carol, I'm fully aware that the librarians are volunteers. I wasn't aware that the moderators aren't. I'm diligent to follow all the rules and read the policies*, wait for posts to be acted on, title and format posts per policy, and so forth. I'm very appreciative of your (and others') many timely replies in this thread. You can see here and in other discussions that I've waited for months for replies or action in several cases and haven't bumped threads without waiting for the recommended lengths of time or more.

I do have questions about the lines of reasoning used in this thread, but that may irrelevant IF Jaclyn was not swayed by it. If no one here is interested in helping me to understand that reasoning, I understand. I won't expect a reply.

Thank you for the link to the "questions" folder.

*That's exactly what I've been seeking to do here: understand the policies and how they are applied.