Authors & Reviewers discussion
Please need advice on fantasy genre (WIP)
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Jerry wrote: "Are you looking for a professional beta reader??"Not really, but you are welcome to read an excerpt or two if you're interested! I'm just looking for some advice if you're well-versed in the romantasy with historical elements genre. It's all very new to me, and my work is extremely rudimentary (only 25k words) anyways, so there wouldn't be much to build on in terms of plot and world-building.
I always wonder… when you’re reading a multigenerational saga, do you end up connecting more with the older generation or the younger one?
Hi, Paityn,I wrote a book with 6 stories in it, 4 of which are historical and one contemporary, one speculative.
As an author who has been through what you're getting to, I have a learning to share: As soon as I finish the trilogy, I will only write fantasy.
The problem with writing historical fantasy, I wholly sympathize with. Twofold:
First: the amount of effort to get historical details right is enormous. I had to read a lot of history for every venue where my characters lived. That's sociopolitical, spiritual, technological, language.
I encountered a reviewer who calls it "potato rage": defined as the rage you feel when reading about a Viking's dinner and they serve potatoes. A more-precise word is anachronism.
To make a historical fiction piece feel whole and correct, meticulous detail to place and setting is required so it doesn't put off the more knowledgeable readers and also gives you, as an author, depth to your character's experience. Their world must feel lived-in. But as well, the environment defines the characters, and by putting yourself in their worldview, they are richer characters and more for you to play with in perspective.
But the counterpoint is the second struggle. Once the author has digested several encyclopedias of fact, you get to use only a tiny fraction of a percent in the work itself. The fine line we walk is making a world that feels lived-in, but not a history lesson.
In my experience, it's about focusing on the characters' experience and putting in the historical detail delicately and only if absolutely necessary. If we get the context right, our reader can fill in gaps. But we still have to know our stuff to get the context right.
Here's the way I'd describe it: with historical fiction, you have to be right. With fantasy, you just have to be consistent.
In your case, it's an alternate history. You said your characters are already anachronistic, so you've already given yourself permission to avoid the details of actual historical fiction. Perhaps you can just lean into that? Of course, the historical purists will turn their chins up at it, but you can't please all the people.
I do wonder why you've chosen to sit in the mid-ground between historical and modern and fantasy... while (as above), it's liberating, it's also risky, isn't it, for consistency? If they wear modern clothes, where do they get the materials and hardware? If they speak using a more-modern dialect, how did that evolve?
So actually, I'd advise that you drop any pretense of history and just borrow geography. If your fantasy map looks like Europe and the kingdom of Lookatus is roughly where France is and the city of Hoity is where Paris is, the parallels will let readers fill in the gaps for you.
Do readers get turned of by [fill in the blank]. Yes! You will never satisfy everyone. Write what you want to write. Hold yourself to a standard of consistency and believability. Insert historical details you know, but as a part of their world. If you're ignoring historical events, you're in a fantasy category, not a historical. Many many authors live in that sort of mid-world.
Should you throw it out and start over? My advice is to write first and edit later. Stop second-guessing yourself and just write the book. Then go back later and read it with a critical eye. Is it consistent, are the character arcs relatable and human? Do they mean something? Then edit.
I hope I've touched at least on the edges with what you're struggling with. Please feel free to DM me if you'd like to chat more.
D.J.
You have hit dead on on the meat of writing historical fantasy fiction, D.J.! I couldn't agree more with what you have written, yet I do add that it is fundamental for the author to experience the settings of which he writes with all of his senses. In any case, I would love to chat with you some day. I saw your author website, and short of your posting a photo of yourself there, you seem to be a real person.Cheers,
Edmond
D.J. wrote: "Hi, Paityn,I wrote a book with 6 stories in it, 4 of which are historical and one contemporary, one speculative.
As an author who has been through what you're getting to, I have a learning to sh..."
Hello D.J.,
Thank you for the thoughtful insight. I understand where you're coming from and it clears up some of the questions I've been pondering about for a while.
With your insight, I would probably just stick to fantasy and leave it there for consistency, like you mentioned. The knowledge I have already amassed about medieval Europe was too great to insert into my novel without overloading the reader, I fear. It didn't flow right with me, my world, or my characters. I just simply don't have the bandwidth for that.
After all, I wasn't trying to mix the two genres intentionally. I gave my WIP to my writing mentor, and she pointed out that I hadn't set the setting at all and suggested a time period and place. And then I fell down the entire rabbit hole of, "oh, I have make this accurate or use this word instead of that one". It turmoiled into something much much bigger.
Anyways, again, I really appreciate the thoughtful insight. It's always nice to hear other opinions and I'm glad you stopped by and took the time to help me!
Best,
Paityn
Paityn,I'm glad it helped. And honestly, the research you did is _not_ "toss it" -- it's fodder for your fantasy world. Take the elements which advance your story. Other elements that are there, keep them in your mind, "how would my character feel when walking into a tavern looking for information? Would my character be shocked about the way these villagers feel about animals?" -- it still makes your character richer and more believable even if you don't talk about what kind of silverware is on the table. And those truths -- as your character sees them, will flesh in the world more than exposition.
Your characters are a product of your environment. Your mentor is right that place is essential to the depth and believability of your book. Before your character walks into the tavern -- ask yourself what it looks like, what it smells like, how the other people there will be interacting. What do they care about, how do they treat strangers. Make that part of your world context, then when you share the character's experience with it, your readers will see through the experience without you having to go into detail. That will make your world feel lived-in -- yes I used the description again, because it's essential. I suspect that's what your mentor didn't feel.
I know of authors who basically write a mini history book about their milieu before putting characters in it -- the book is never published, of course, but it cements these in the author's mind.
I agree with Edmond that having experienced a place personally also helps. In my book, an Edo period Daimyo uses a metaphor about the manor of the Kyoto shogun that I learned while standing in that same manor myself. It is a sentence in the book, but a place to call home.
Reviewers are also helpful -- I had a Japanese friend parse that story to ensure I wasn't historically inaccurate, appropriating or anachronistic. I had an Australian friend work through 1920s Sydney for me... especially to make sure I got the expressions right (I still wonder if a reader will ever realize that those chapters are even spelled in British English). Yes, I've been to Sydney, but the history -- what rings true -- still requires a native to get 100%.
So... mentor... good advice. Setting matters -- a lot.... not just to your reader but your characters too. Edmond is also right that it's very helpful to be there with your whole self too. (Google maps streetview is a good reference for geography too lol).
But the most important advice I want to give is simply -- write. Stop second-guessing yourself. if you get it on the canvas, you can touch it up on your second pass. Or third. Or fourth lol.
Best regards. Reach out if there's anything I can do for you.
D.J.
Edmond wrote: "You have hit dead on on the meat of writing historical fantasy fiction, D.J.! I couldn't agree more with what you have written, yet I do add that it is fundamental for the author to experience the ..."Edmond,
Thanks. I love to help new writers too.
I'm honored you looked at my profile and website. There's no picture because -- trust me -- no one would want to see that! But, yeah, maybe I'm an A.I. Do I pass the turning test?
Reading your profile and since you went to my website... did you happen to read this article about the book? https://djprattauthor.com/article6/
Hi, D.J.! I just read the blurb. It sounds promising. If you'll allow me, I can point out a few spots for you to apply a few corrections and tighten it. I also read the sample of Prima Nocta on Amazon. Congratulations on your achievement! I know how hard it is to accomplish that. How and where do potential readers find you? Are you active in marketing that novel on any social media channel?
Edmond wrote: "Hi, D.J.! I just read the blurb. It sounds promising. If you'll allow me, I can point out a few spots for you to apply a few corrections and tighten it. I also read the sample of Prima Nocta on Ama..."Thanks, Edmond -- feel free to DM me.
Paityn! You didn't say you were an accomplished author already -- a trilogy! Congratulations!
D.J. wrote: "Paityn! You didn't say you were an accomplished author already -- a trilogy! Congratulations!"Thank you!! And congrats on your novel as well! Such a huge achievement!
I really didn't know where to post this, but I just would like some advice both from avid fantasy readers and fantasy authors.
I primarily write in YA dystopian/Sci-Fi, but have started a book (about 25,000 words) that is a YA/NA romance fantasy. I'm new to the genre in terms of both reading and writing it, but I've been trying to pick up some novels to get a feel for it.
Anyways, my novel is historically set in Europe in the 1600s. I have done some research about the era, clothing, lingo etc, picked up a Julie Garwood novel (The Prize) and even an "Author's writing guide..." similar to the time period. However, I just don't want to make my novel so focused on the history.
There are supernatural elements, a fictional map of the novel's world, the lingo/dialogue is modern, clothing is semi-modern, and no major historical events are mentioned (like ongoing wars or division of royalty etc) but my setting is medieval in terms of kingdoms, kings/nobles/common folk, no modern technology, no electricity, accurate housing, etc.
As a reader and/or more experienced author in this subject, how would you go about this? Or more so, do readers get turned off by modern themes, dialogue, plot, in some alternate universe of historical Europe in the 1600s? Does it take away from the novel picking and choosing what I want to be historically accurate?
I've been stuck on this notion for a while--partly because I've been writing in modern language, dialogue, how characters conduct their lives, clothing, etc. and don't know if I should rewrite everything before I continue. I don't want to brand my book as historical fantasy, but do want medieval elements to it. I feel as if it should hold some truth to the time period.
Any advice on what you would do would be greatly appreciated. I'd be happy to also show you some of my work if you're interested so that you could understand what I'm talking about more.