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Current Group Read > Martin Chuzzlewit 1: Chapter 1 - 10

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message 301: by Plateresca (new)

Plateresca | 652 comments Janz, hey, I'm so glad you're still with us! :)

Sue says Miss Pinch sees through her visitors, and Luffy doubts this. I think we have the same problem here as the one we've noticed earlier with Tom: if he is clever, why is he so blind to some things? And yet he doesn't seem stupid. I guess the same applies to Ruth.

She had 'a single-hearted desire to look upon the best side of everything, which was the very moral and image of Tom', and I think we have to accept this as an explanation. I think that Ruth does believe that the Pecksniffs are being kind both to her brother and to herself. 'The poor girl felt it all as if it had been Gospel truth. Her brother writing in the fullness of his simple heart, had often told her so, and how much more!'

Chris and Paul, yes, yes, I am also enjoying the way Pecksniff is making a fool of himself :)


message 302: by Plateresca (new)

Plateresca | 652 comments Shirley, Peter, Bridget, Cindy, John, and Chris (forgive me if I've missed somebody) have commented on the description of the Todgers's neighbourhood. Here are some more thoughts on the subject...

Todgers's
(No spoilers here, just lengthy quotes).
'Todgers's occupies a prominent place in the history of Dickens criticism, (view spoiler)

'Good and bad are blurred and confused <...> when searching for Todgers. <...> [I]t is 'a labyrinth, whereof the mystery was known but to a chosen few'. (view spoiler)


message 303: by Plateresca (new)

Plateresca | 652 comments Chapter 9 Summary, part II

At Todgers's, Saturday nights are always busy with various 'domestic preparations'. The little boy who works there tells the Miss Pecksniffs that, since they're to be present at Sunday dinner, it is cooked with more care than usual. His name is Benjamin, but everybody calls him Bailey, among other nicknames.

When it's finally time for Sunday dinner, everybody gathers at the banquet hall. The leaders of the gentlemen boarders are Jinkins, whom Pecksniff seems to like, and Gander. The Miss Pecksniffs are the only ladies present besides Mrs Todgers, they're very popular with the young gentlemen, and are extremely excited about it. Young Bailey likes them, too; and 'the youngest gentleman in the company' might be in love with Mercy. There's a lot of wine at dinner. When the ladies withdraw, the gentlemen compliment Pecksniff on his daughters, and they all drink a lot of punch. When they join the ladies, the gentlemen continue courting the Miss Pecksniffs, particularly Mercy.

By this time, Pecksniff is drunk. He makes advances at Mrs Todgers, somehow for the sake of the memory of his deceased wife. Mrs Todgers is somewhat embarrassed.


By Fred Barnard
From the Victorian Web, image scanned by Philip V. Allingham

Eventually, Pecksniff falls into the fireplace. The gentlemen carry him upstairs into his bedroom and expect him to stay in bed, but when they leave, he goes after them and wants to make speeches. They return him to his room, but he gets out again, and this goes on until, finally, they lock him in and leave Bailey to keep watch.


message 304: by Plateresca (new)

Plateresca | 652 comments My retelling is all in the present tense, but in this episode, the narrative of the novel does briefly switch to the present tense! Which was a very modern technique at the time (and we might remember its creative use in 'Bleak House').

In the old story of George Barnwell, an apprentice falls under the spell of a girl (a prostitute in some versions), by whom he is seduced to rob his master and murder his uncle. When the deed is done and the money spent, she informs against him, and as a result, both are hanged at Newgate. There were many versions of this story: a ballad in the seventeenth century, then George Lillo's highly successful tragedy 'The London Merchant (or The History Of George Barnwell)'. The story of George Barnwell was reputed to have a powerful effect on delinquent youth, and was frequently performed on the night after Christmas with a view to their reclamation. In 'Great Expectations', (view spoiler).

Old Bailey was the court which exercised jurisdiction over London and the adjacent counties. There was also a ballad about a girl abandoned by her seducer, which had the refrain 'Oh, Miss Bailey! Unfortunate Miss Bailey'.


message 305: by Plateresca (new)

Plateresca | 652 comments What an intense chapter, isn't it? Starting with the fantastic description, proceeding with social satire, and ending with some good laugh-out-loud comedy. I do hope you've enjoyed all of this, and am looking forward to enjoying your further comments :)


message 306: by Connie (last edited Sep 12, 2025 12:46AM) (new)

Connie  G (connie_g) | 1033 comments Bailey, the young boy, is a good humorous contrast to the haughty Mr Pecksniff. It's complete chaos when Bailey's around, but at the end of the day the hypocritical Pecksniff is the one that is drunk and inappropriate. Bailey is the person who is tasked with making sure that Packsniff stays locked in his room and behaves.

I also liked the earlier scene where Pecksniff gets ordered off the grass by Ruth's employer. We can recognize Pecksniff in illustrations by various artists because his nose and chin are always held high in a haughty manner. The character certainly is well named.


message 307: by Kathleen (new)

Kathleen | 246 comments The second half of this chapter is just too silly for me, so I found it rather irritating. And it feels like a filler. I like Dickens best when he is serious.


message 308: by Peter (new)

Peter | 242 comments Plateresca wrote: "Shirley, well-noted! Another reference to cobwebs. Mrs Todgers's cap was described as reminiscent of a cobweb, too. Look out for spiders...

Peter, thank you (again) for your brilliant analysis of ..."


Plateresca

Of course! I now think the other object in the foreground is a shuttlecock as well. You and Bridget have given me fresh eyes and insights into this illustration. Much appreciated. Our group discussions are wonderful. Thank you both.


message 309: by Plateresca (last edited Sep 12, 2025 05:43AM) (new)

Plateresca | 652 comments Connie, I agree, Bailey is an interesting character, and he's utterly Dickensian, isn't he? :)

Kathleen, I see your point! I wouldn't say 'filler', but maybe 'comic relief' after introducing the more serious themes of the first half of the chapter?.. Although (not to defend the second half of the chapter, but just for future records), we can glean some new info from the second half of the chapter, too... E.g., how the Misses Pecksniff react to being courted by the 'commercial gentlemen', how Pecksniff behaves with Mrs Todgers (and just the contrast between his behaviour here and, say, with Mrs Lupin in the very beginning!), and the quirky character of the boy Bailey.

Peter, this is what I have been thinking all day today, this group is amazing.
Jean, if I were you, I would be congratulating myself daily on having created such a special group where such nice people have such wonderfully clever discussions :)


message 310: by Luffy Sempai (new)

Luffy Sempai (luffy79) | 219 comments Kathleen wrote: "The second half of this chapter is just too silly for me, so I found it rather irritating. And it feels like a filler. I like Dickens best when he is serious."

Dickens can be wordy when he is serious too though. See much later in this very book.


message 311: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8402 comments Mod
Plateresca wrote: "Jean, if I were you, I would be congratulating myself daily on having created such a special group where such nice people have such wonderfully clever discussions :)..."

I appreciate it very much Plateresca! And it's down to everyone, with Martin Chuzzlewit being a particular highlight as the first Dickens novel hosted jointly! You really are setting the bar very high for this first half. Thank you 🙂


message 312: by Sue (new)

Sue | 1159 comments I rather enjoyed this party atmosphere for the chance to see the Pecksniffs at play. They do know how to enjoy themselves, or the daughters are now learning from their father. I wasn’t shocked when Pecksniff’s spoken ad for his architect training appeared; he is the soul of impropriety. But I doubt anyone was sober enough to remember the message.

I don’t know if we will see Pinch’s sister again. I liked her but heaven (and Dickens) knows what role she could have in furthering this story.


message 313: by Kathleen (new)

Kathleen | 496 comments Plateresca, wonderful details on the job of governess. I do hope we see Pinch's sister again!

I loved the beginning of Chapter 9, wandering the streets with Dickens again. And I really appreciate Connie's point about Bailey being a contrast to Pecksniff, and how Dickens turned the tables on them at the end. Great catch, and example of a brilliant Dickens turn.


Shirley (stampartiste) | 487 comments This chapter really made me think about Pecksniff and his former life. How did he know Mrs. Todgers? The neighborhood seems so filthy and out-of-the-way, how did he (and the seemingly respectable traveling salesmen) ever find Mrs. Todgers' boardinghouse? I wasn't sure about her at first, but the way she rebuffs Pecksniff time and time again, she appears to be very respectable herself.

Dickens did it again in describing the boarders: a gentleman of a sporting turn, a gentlemen of a theatrical turn, a gentleman of a debating term, a gentleman of a literary turn, .... I just love the way he describes people and things in this way. It's almost musical.

And Kathleen, I know this chapter was silly, but how I enjoyed watching Pecksniff with his guard down. Apparently, he was aware that people were talking about his pupil's lack of training under his tutelage, and it must bother him. He grew quite maudlin about it. He also showed, by drinking too much when he didn't have to foot the bill, that he was a reckless father when it came to protecting his daughters in a houseful of strange men. In his drunken state, he showed me that he wasn't quite as bad as the other Chuzzlewits. Maybe he can be redeemed yet.


message 315: by Plateresca (new)

Plateresca | 652 comments Sue, I don't think commercial gentlemen could afford to become architects, anyway :) Likewise, I'm sure that Mrs Todgers's attempts to leave her card at the 'lofty' family could never have brought her any lodger (and she doesn't even need new lodgers, since there are no spare rooms at her establishment anyway).

Kathleen of roses (and Sue was asking the same question), we will see some more of Miss Pinch (I hope I am allowed this mild spoiler :)).

Shirley, I wouldn't call Mrs Todgers very respectable, but I agree that the fact that she does not encourage Pecksniff's advances makes us like her more. I think it also means she's not stupid, since it's very doubtful he would want to marry her. But the question of how they got to know each other is really an interesting one. We know she never saw his wife, so they were not acquainted through her. Maybe Pecksniff goes to London sometimes just to let himself go, and stays at Todgers's? I'm not sure he would want to spend money on such trips, so I'm not at all sure of this explanation, but I have no better one.

Is Pecksniff a reckless father, now? Frankly, I think, yes, he is. He can know nothing about these 'commercial gentlemen', and although his daughters are enjoying themselves, this is not quite the appropriate company for them.

On the other hand (I've been thinking about it), look, they live in a village, and the only young men they see are Pecksniff's apprentices (remember how Mercy was enquiring about the new pupil's looks in the second chapter). Both daughters are of an age to get married, so it's possible that all the Pecksniffs are on the lookout for potential candidates. Although I am far from sure that the commercial gentlemen living at Todgers's are desirable suitors from the financial point of view.


message 316: by Plateresca (new)

Plateresca | 652 comments Sylvère Monod: '<...> parts of the section devoted to Mr Pecksniff's drunkenness at Mrs Todgers's. It has been seen that the end of it was on the whole farcical, and based in part on a well-known device for producing laughter, the use of repetition; but there is also the analysis, or rather the display, of what happens when incipient inebriation loosens some of the controls laid down by a man of strong will and great experience in dissembling. His words still flow along the channels he has created for them, but they come in shorter spirts and with an admixture of involuntary eccentricities; and his amorousness clamours for expression. Thus, when Mr Pecksniff asks Mrs Todgers to let him hold both her hands he claims that this is the will of his deceased wife, and that she is speaking through him <...>. The phenomenon might be described, anachronistically perhaps, as a partial release of the id from the tyranny of the superego.'


message 317: by Plateresca (new)

Plateresca | 652 comments Chapter 10 Summary

But what about Mr Pecksniff's business in London? Even his daughters do not know what it is, but they trust him. For several days, he goes to the post office to enquire for letters, and then does nothing for the rest of the day. Then one morning, he returns excited and gives instructions to his daughters.

Later in the day, an old gentleman arrives at Todgers's. It is Martin Chuzzlewit the elder, and he's come to see Pecksniff. It turns out it was he who asked Pecksniff to come to London, and he will pay for Pecksniff's stay. He says he regrets what he said to Pecksniff on their previous meeting. The Miss Pecksniffs are summoned, and they're very amiable to old Martin.


Truth prevails, and Virtue is triumphant, by Phiz
From the Victorian Web, image scanned by Philip V. Allingham.
[Note the smiling coal scuttle!]

Old Martin says he knows that young Martin is staying with Pecksniff. He says he's offended by Martin's engagement to Mary, and he demands that Pecksniff turn young Martin out. His other request is that the Pecksniffs let Mary, his helper, stay with them, and be kind to her. They are glad to agree to both requests.

When he goes away, Mercy and Charity break into laughter. They are interrupted by the sound of voices in the next room. The young gentleman who is (kind of) in love with Mercy and dislikes Jinkins, partly because of that (Jinkins is more forward, and thus probably more popular with the Miss Pecksniffs), demands that Mrs Todgers turn Jinkins out, or else he will leave himself. He claims he talked to Jinkins about his presumed offences, but we are told he only complains about them to Mrs Todgers. She moans, tells him he's too sensitive, and persuades him to stay with her.

When he leaves, she enters the Pecksniffs' room, and complains about him. They all seem to like Jinkins better. Pecksniff learns that the young gentleman only pays eighteen shillings a week, and derides Mrs Todgers for 'demeaning' herself for such a small sum.


message 318: by Plateresca (new)

Plateresca | 652 comments 'Time and tide...'
'While the proverb urges an almost heady commitment to the moment, Dickens turns it inside out, and by quite literally inverting its emphasis, re-conceives time and tide as a sort of Victorian transport system, complete with a regulatory timetable. Mr Pecksniff joins the patient crowds on a station platform, as it were, ready to board his chosen tide, for this in turn has been augmented by that other proverbial flood from Julius Caesar.
['There is a tide in the affairs of men
Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune <...>'
is a quote from Shakerspeare's Julius Caesar].

Proverbs rely for their effect on their snappiness, on the crisp way in which they urge their case and the jingling brevity of their metrics. The best way to have a go at them, therefore, is to subject them to laboured amplification. By making a little wisdom go a long way, the writer can do it to death, and so ask us to think out its counsel afresh. The near-Homeric simile which has Mr Pecksniff wade in the muddy shallows has turned impetuosity and commitment into squalid self-seeking.'
From 'Locution and Authority in Martin Chuzzlewit' by R. S. Edgecombe


'The poetry of ages'
'‘What,’ he asked of Mr Pecksniff, happening to catch his eye in its descent; for until now it had been piously upraised, with something of that expression which the poetry of ages has attributed to a domestic bird, when breathing its last amid the ravages of an electric storm: ‘What are their names?’
The Penguin Classics edition Notes say, 'Like a dying duck in a thunderstorm' %)


message 319: by Plateresca (new)

Plateresca | 652 comments
Mr. Pecksniff and Old Martin Chuzzlewit, by Harold Copping, 1924
Image from the Victorian Web, scanned by Philip V. Allingham


message 320: by Plateresca (new)

Plateresca | 652 comments This chapter ends the fourth instalment. Sunday the 14th is our day to catch up and process what we've read so far, and we will crack open the fifth instalment on Monday.

So, while young Martin is assiduously working on his homework, his situation, as we've just learned, is much more precarious than he can suppose; and this is the cliff-hanger with which the original readers were left for the rest of the month :) What are your impressions of these goings-on?


message 321: by John (new)

John (jdourg) | 371 comments I did find a certain amount of hilarity to the first two pages: Pecksniff walks to the post office for four or five days, and finding nothing, can go back home to relaxing. Which was what he was doing before his walk. Thy work is done.


message 322: by Cindy (new)

Cindy Newton | 52 comments I found the Pecksniffs' hypocrisy hilarious. We watch them stage this elaborate production designed to convey their completely selfless love for this old relative and their altruistic desire to accommodate his every wish. Then Pecksniff condemns Mrs. Todger for doing the same thing. Apparently, his abhorrence for her performance is based on the amount of money involved, not for the actual groveling.

I believe Martin is making his plan clear but outlines it as a hypothetical situation seen through the perspective of the venal vultures who harass him: With the great mass of slanderers . . . the tale, as I clearly foresee, will run thus: That to mark my contempt for the rabble whom I despised, I chose from among them the very worst, and made him do my will, and pampered and enriched him at the cost of all the rest. That after casting about for the means of a punishment which should rankle in the bosoms of these kites the most, and strike into their gall, I devised this scheme at a time when the last link in the chain of grateful love and duty, that held me to my race, was roughly snapped asunder" (164). When he asks if Pecksniff can endure the hostility that will no doubt be directed at him as a result, Pecksniff replies ecstatically that he can endure whatever Chuzzlewit asks him to--the unspoken part being, "for your money."

Does Pecksniff even snap to the fact that Chuzzlewit is calling him "the very worst" of his relatives and that he is a tool being used to punish the others? Personally, I think his brain stopped comprehending after the words "pampered and enriched" and all else faded into background noise! Their fawning and toadeating, while funny, is still disgusting!


message 323: by Peter (new)

Peter | 242 comments I can picture Pecksniff’s daughters listening at the door when their father is talking to Martin Sr. Added to this we have the theatrical greetings of the daughters. So much drama! So much falsehood! We learn from this chapter that there is not much love or respect from Martin Sr towards Martin Jr.

What there is in this chapter is a continuation of the focus on money. Chuzzlewit Sr and Pecksniff are deceivers who play (and perhaps even prey?) on each other. They are both calculating men.

I wonder if there is anything we need to take into consideration concerning the fact that both Pecksniff, and to a greater extent, Mrs Todgers take in boarders?

I certainly agree with Allingham that Pecksniff’s posture in the illustration is reminiscent of a Napoleonic pose. What fun. Browne must have had fun creating Pecksniff’s hair style and his depiction of the faces of Pecksniff’s two daughters is a masterly underlining of their characters.

I confess, however, the chapter seems to be too drawn out, too leaning towards melodrama, which ultimately loses the humourous edge attempted in the chapter.


Shirley (stampartiste) | 487 comments I'm afraid I was very skeptical of the Martin Chuzzlewit that showed up in this chapter. His attitude towards Pecksniff and his daughters just seemed off to me. He was not at all the hateful, suspicious man we met at the Blue Dragon. I just feel that he has some hidden design up his sleeve, and he needs Pecksniff to pull it off. It was kind of funny to me because it felt like two flimflam artists trying to pull one over on the other, and each of them thought he had succeeded.

But I do feel sorry for the young Martin Chuzzlewit. For all of his self-absorption, he doesn't seem to be all that bad.


message 325: by Sue (new)

Sue | 1159 comments I agree Shirley. I had the feeling that Martin was virtually telling Pecksniff exactly what was going to happen to him and in a backhanded way, telling him off. But Pecksniff is all ego so really was not likely to listen to anything once he believed he had become Martin Sr.’s favorite.

Peter, I think you commented on Pecksniff’s reaction to the situation with the boarder. Very interesting. I hadn’t thought of that.


message 326: by Sue (new)

Sue | 1159 comments Oops, sorry Peter. It was Cindy’s comment about Mrs. Rodger groveling for insignificant amounts of money vs Pecksniff’s own groveling that struck me.


message 327: by Sue (new)

Sue | 1159 comments And AI wouldn’t let Todger exist!


message 328: by Plateresca (new)

Plateresca | 652 comments John, it's funny, indeed, that we never see Pecksniff doing anything useful! I suspect that Victorian readers liked this no more than we do now.

Cindy, I agree, Pecksniff's chastisement of Mrs Todgers is ironic, and we were meant to notice this.
And yes, the Pecksniffs' greed is repulsive. We remember how nice they were to young Martin only a couple of days ago (Tom was shocked!). Now, not a word was said in his favour.

Peter, indeed, it's one of Dickens's theatrical chapters. I think the way the characters overhear Mrs Todgers's dialogue with the young man, and the way she enters the stage the room is particularly histrionic, but then maybe this was the authorial intention, to underscore the fact that the characters are dissimulating.

And going back to the omitted epigraph of 'Your homes the stage...', I think maybe the readers are supposed to ask themselves here whether they are not doing the very same things that they tend to censure in others.

Shirley and Sue, I think your perceptions are very accurate :) (Ha, imgine AI giving directions on how to find Todgers's :))


message 329: by John (new)

John (jdourg) | 371 comments I decided to “check-in” with A.I. and see what it had to say about Todgers:

“She is a talkative and somewhat manipulative character.”


message 330: by Peter (new)

Peter | 242 comments Plateresca wrote: "John, it's funny, indeed, that we never see Pecksniff doing anything useful! I suspect that Victorian readers liked this no more than we do now.

Cindy, I agree, Pecksniff's chastisement of Mrs Tod..."


Plateresca

Yes. As you state I think we are seeing Dickens’s ‘authorial intention’ at work here, and will see it as we move through the novel together. One of the many things I find amazing in the earlier novels is the fact that Dickens’s intentions are more noticeable than in his later novels. Over time Dickens gains complete control over not only his material but how he can deliver it to his readers. What a treat it is to read and enjoy the power of Dickens when he is in full flight. Here, in an earlier novel, we get to experience him in the earlier phases of his stylistic development.


message 331: by Plateresca (new)

Plateresca | 652 comments Peter, thank you for sharing your thoughts on Dickens's progress. I agree, it's interesting to trace his development.

We are moving to a new thread, everybody!
It's here!


message 332: by Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess" (last edited Sep 15, 2025 02:22AM) (new)

Bionic Jean (bionicjean) | 8402 comments Mod
Maybe I can sneak this in at the end ...

I was delighted to see an original "Household Edition" of Martin Chuzzlewit at Oxfam (a charity shop) a couple of weeks ago - those with embossed green covers and fancy gold tooling. It's even a large format one, not the compact ones you usually see. You can imagine I snapped it up, maybe with a slight squeal of delight ...

The "Household Editions", intended for ordinary people to collect and treasure for family reading, were the first editions of Charles Dickens's novels after his death. They were published in order, at the rate of one or two a year: thus this one was 1872 (books at that time were not dated). There's an article about them here
https://victorianweb.org/art/illustra...

(and you can see the lush cover, although mine is in better condition 🙂)

They had various illustrators, this one has 59 by Fred Barnard. He's one of my favourites for Charles Dickens, as he is so realistic! We do have to remember that all these slightly later Victorian artists had the benefit of knowing the entire work though, which Hablot Knight Browne never did. This might add to their perception of e.g. character. They also had the luxury of being able to choose their scene! In this case (chapter 10) he chose the same one Dickens had stipulated for Hablot Knight Browne.

It is Fred Barnard's 14th illustration for this novel), and although not as caricatured as Phiz', it is still masterly I think:



"We sometimes venture to consider her rather a fine figure, sir. Speaking as an artist, I may perhaps be permitted to suggest, that its outline is graceful and correct."

(Please forgive my patchy contributions. I've been rather ill for over a week, and have decided to ease off a little in order to get better and come back in full strength for the second half 🙂)


message 333: by Peter (new)

Peter | 242 comments Bionic Jean wrote: "Maybe I can sneak this in at the end ...

I was delighted to see an original "Household Edition" of Martin Chuzzlewit at Oxfam (a charity shop) a couple of weeks ago - those with embos..."


Jean

Well, first of all, take care of yourself. Your presence and posts are always a delight to read, but since MC is long, we know you will be with us with full steam very shortly.

As for your most recent purchase … what Larks!


message 334: by Connie (new)

Connie  G (connie_g) | 1033 comments What a great find at the charity shop, Jean!

I hope you will be feeling better soon.


message 335: by Chris (new)

Chris | 195 comments I enjoyed this chapter but did I miss why MC the elder decided to seek out Pecksniff and apologize for his previous behavior toward him? Did he really think that Pecksniff was the least offensive of the relatives? Is he setting him up for something?


message 336: by Katy (new)

Katy | 287 comments Jean - I hope you start feeling better soon. Best wishes.

Chris - I do not think you are missing anything. This was a pretty abrupt change of heart. It will be interesting to see what is behind it.


message 337: by Plateresca (new)

Plateresca | 652 comments Jean, I envy you your Household edition! What larks, indeed, as Peter says!
Thank you for posting Fred Barnard's illustration, it's lovely!
I hope you get better much sooner than we start the second half!

Chris, lovely question, but I can't answer it :) All we know is, it seems that Old Martin changed his mind and is now 'working' with Pecksniff. Pecksniff happily accepts this situation. Is there something else going on? We do not know at this point ;)

Katy, exactly, we read on :)

We're discussing the next part of the book here, but please feel free to add your comments on the first ten chapters right here! (I know you've heard this before, but just in case :))


message 338: by Sara (new)

Sara (phantomswife) | 1539 comments Just have to add my yahoos to your wonderful find, Jean. Hopefully you are feeling in the pink by now.


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