Robinson Crusoe (end) by Daniel Defoe - Group Read (hosted by Erich)

[Erich C]

Scrooge and Robinson Crusoe

Robinson Crusoe was a favorite childhood book of Ebeneezer Scrooge in A Christmas Carol. The Ghost of Christmas Past shows Scrooge, neglected by his friends, reading to escape his loneliness:

The Spirit touched him on the arm, and pointed to his younger self, intent upon his reading. Suddenly a man in foreign garments, wonderfully real and distinct to look at, stood outside the window, with an axe stuck in his belt, and leading by the bridle an ass laden with wood.

'Why, it's Ali Baba!' Scrooge exclaimed in ecstasy. 'It's dear old honest Ali Baba! Yes, yes, I know. One Christmas-time, when yonder solitary child was left here all alone, he did come, for the first time, just like that. Poor boy! And Valentine,' said Scrooge, 'and his wild brother, Orson; there they go! And what's his name, who was put down in his drawers, asleep, at the gate of Damascus; don't you see him? And the Sultan's Groom turned upside down by the Genii; there he is upon his head! Serve him right! I'm glad of it. What business had he to be married to the Princess?'

To hear Scrooge expending all the earnestness of his nature on such subjects, in a most extraordinary voice between laughing and crying; and to see his heightened and excited face; would have been a surprise to his business friends in the City, indeed.

'There's the Parrot!' cried Scrooge. 'Green body and yellow tail, with a thing like a lettuce growing out of the top of his head; there he is! Poor Robin Crusoe he called him, when he came home again after sailing round the island. "Poor Robin Crusoe, where have you been, Robin Crusoe?" The man thought he was dreaming, but he wasn't. It was the Parrot, you know. There goes Friday, running for his life to the little creek! Halloa! Hoop! Halloo!'

Then, with a rapidity of transition very foreign to his usual character, he said, in pity for his former self, 'Poor boy!' and cried again.

'I wish,' Scrooge muttered, putting his hand in his pocket, and looking about him, after drying his eyes with his cuff; 'but it's too late now.'

[Erich C]

Connie: "Erich, reading "Robinson Crusoe" with you and the group has been such a pleasure. Thank you for your expert leadership and commentary."

Thank you for all of your contributions, Connie!

[Plateresca]

Wow, I've read the two quotes one after the other and it's astonishing how, indeed, unemotional is the description of Friday's death, and how touching and poignant is the passage from 'A Christmas Carol'. Characteristically, Robinson has to note that Friday did deserve his appreciation! Thank you, Erich, this is very interesting.

Yes, indeed, the theme of self-sufficiency couldn't but inspire Dickens, thank you for pointing this out, everybody. And just generally for your comments, too, of course! :)

[Erich C]

Plateresca: "And just generally for your comments, too, of course! :)"

Yes, thank you and everyone for your comments!

[Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"]

It's been a wonderful experience! Thank you so much Erich for all your work in bringing this together. I love how you have brought us full circle to how and why Charles Dickens was so impressed by the story, and how it pervaded his work so often.

I'm often reminded of how his great friend Wilkie Collins included it, by making the Verinder household's butler in The Moonstone (Gabriel Betteredge) be guided in all things by Robinson Crusoe. He's one of my favourite narrators! I think Lori may have mentioned him too, near the beginning of the read.

Who knew so much could be gleaned from this shortish novel - but you have done us proud once again. Thanks to everyone for your contributions, and I'm sure we look forward to another stellar lead by Erich whenever he feels ready!

Meanwhile the official date for finishing this read is Mon 25th August, so more comments are welcome! 🙂

[Lori]

I was very pleased to get the opportunity to read this book in this way - Jean has really perfected a method of reading/teaching/learning that is inspired by the Victorian era. I would probably have not finished this one on my own. Erich’s excellent summaries and prep for this book greatly increased my enjoyment. I came in blind not having read any version as a child or watching any tv version either. I appreciate all of the comments and conversations from everyone who joined in and made this a wonderful experience!!
Yes, it was Gabriel Betteredge who prompted my desire to read RC. Thanks again for a fabulous read! I look forward to what’s in store!!

[Chris]

Thanks s much Erich!! I really enjoyed all the discussions. There was so much more to the story than I realized. The story I knew was obviously sanitized and I was really surprised at how long it took in the story for Friday to come along.

[Sam]

Thanks Erich! I did not envy you in hosting this novel since I think it is a difficult novel to host today, but you handled everything well. After this last read, I appreciate the need for Crusoe in the canon and feel there are still many opportunities ripe for present day criticism.

[Erich C]

Bionic Jean: "It's been a wonderful experience!"

I've enjoyed reading this along with everyone at a leisurely pace with some time for reflection along the way!

I have to return to The Moonstone; it has been too long. I also have a copy of Friday, or, The Other Island, so I plan to read that as a followup as well.

It has also been many years since I have read Moll Flanders, a book which I remember liking very much. It is very different from Robinson Crusoe, so those of our group who may not want to reread Crusoe anytime soon might nevertheless consider that one.

Lori: I came in blind not having read any version as a child or watching any tv version either.

It is interesting that our group included both people who had read the book before and were focusing on a certain aspect of the work during a reread and those who were reading for the first time. Crusoe has had such a strong influence on books that followed and on Western culture in general that even though you hadn't read it I wonder how much you already knew about the characters and the story.

Chris: The story I knew was obviously sanitized and I was really surprised at how long it took in the story for Friday to come along.

That is another aspect of the work as a story that has been retold in multiple ways for a variety of audiences. I have heard the footprint from a random cannibal that frightened Robinson referred to as "Friday's footprint," when Robinson actually rescued Friday around three years (if I remember correctly) later.

Sam: After this last read, I appreciate the need for Crusoe in the canon and feel there are still many opportunities ripe for present day criticism.

I agree! As I've mentioned, I would like to know more about how the novel functions psychologically, in the way that it works as a concept. The Crusoe character, for example, is an archetype of independence and self-reliance, so it has had a profound effect on cultures and individuals.

[Plateresca]

Erich C wrote: "I have heard the footprint from a random cannibal that frightened Robinson referred to as "Friday's footprint,"
I have heard this, too! I guess the abridged version lost the years in between the footprint and the appearance of Friday. And, speaking of those years, I thought the description of Robinson's psychological sufferings when he learnt that he was not such an incontestable king of the island as he had thought very realistic; more moving, probably, than the scene of Friday's death.

Erich, what about you, how do you feel about this novel, and has this re-reading changed anything about it for you?

[Connie]

Erich, thank you for including Dickens' letter to John Forster about Friday's death. Defoe's writing of Friday's death was very dry. (The only really emotional part of "Robinson Crusoe" was his fright when he saw the single footprint of a possible cannibal.)

It's so different than Dickens' sentimental deaths, especially of children, that bring me to tears. In "Robinson Crusoe" the Bible is mentioned to help with dealing with adversity with a Job-like relationship to God. In Dickens' works, angels are imagined bringing sweet, innocent children to heaven.

[Werner]

Connie wrote: "Defoe's writing of Friday's death was very dry. (The only really emotional part of "Robinson Crusoe" was his fright when he saw the single footprint of a possible cannibal.)"

From about 1688-1789, British culture (literature, visual art, music, etc.), like European culture in general, was dominated by the Neoclassical school, whose pundits greatly disliked and distrusted human emotions. (To use a Star Trek comparison, I think of them as something like would-be Vulcans, minus the pointed ears. :-) ). Even in fiction, Neoclassical prose tends to be very dry and dispassionate, and Defoe's prose is a good example.

Dickens, on the other hand, wrote after the rise of the Romantic school, in a conscious reaction against everything Neoclassicism stood for, had set the expression and evocation of strong human emotion at the very center of the creative enterprise. In British literature, the dominance of Romanticism lasted pretty much down through the end of the Victorian period; and Dickens is one of many writers who, unlike Defoe, were very much influenced by Romantic ideas.

[Connie]

Thanks for the great information, Werner.

[Erich C]

Plateresca: "Erich, what about you, how do you feel about this novel, and has this re-reading changed anything about it for you?"

Great questions! I am drawn to the first half of the novel, up to the point when RC discovers the footprint and realizes that he's not alone. I enjoyed reading about the struggle to survive, creating useful objects, the canoeing attempts. Important ideas that I considered were coming to terms with such profound solitude, freedom from both social obligations and social safety nets, discovering the kernel of meaning in life.

[Erich C]

Connie: "It's so different than Dickens' sentimental deaths, especially of children, that bring me to tears. In "Robinson Crusoe" the Bible is mentioned to help with dealing with adversity with a Job-like relationship to God. In Dickens' works, angels are imagined bringing sweet, innocent children to heaven."

I think you are on to something with your comment about RC's "Job-like relationship to God." His conception of God seems to be more of the Old-Testament variety. He repents of his sinfulness and acknowledges God's total power over him, like Job, and he appears to be an arbitrary victim for unknown reasons. The relationships between RC and God and between Job and God are both very personal relationships as well.

[Erich C]

Connie wrote: "Thanks for the great information, Werner."

I echo this, Werner!

[Plateresca]

Erich, thank you for answering my question!
It made me remember that Robinson said that he was quite happy on the island, just lonely. But when he finally had friends, he was in such a hurry to leave the island, he couldn't even wait for some of them to come back from an expedition to a neighbouring island.
Which, together with the description of an attack performed by wolves captained by a bear, would lead a modern reader to consider this an example of the unreliable narrator device, wouldn't it? :)

[Lori]

Since finishing this novel, I have had time to think about the legacy it has left in pop culture. Especially in tv and movies we still love to watch survival type shows like Gilligan’s Island, Survivor and with the movie Castaway with Tom Hanks being the closest to RC. The term cast away is even equated with Crusoe. Then we’ve heard the term “Man Friday” which has become known as a special assistant or companion. I’m sure there are other examples of how RC has influenced our modern lives.

[Sam]

There are a couple of days left before we begin something new and two ideas are staying with me from this read.

I thought it might be nice to explore what we are taking forward with us from Robinson Crusoe aside from the hope that Erich will lead another read into the the eighteenth century novel.

I keep thinking about individualism in relation to Robison Crusoe and how this idea developed in U.S. literature as compared to European and especially British literature. The them of individualism is dominant in U.S. literature to this day and one can see this most evident I think in examples Hollywood films one might have seen. The theme has been adapted through the years and frequently when American literature is taught, James Fenimore Cooper's Natty Bumppo novels like The Pathfinder or The Last of the Mohicans and Benjamin Franklin's The Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin serve as origins of the theme. I think it would be fun to trace the influences of Robinson Crusoe on those authors. Also it would be interesting to trace how the theme of individualism grows and develops in the literature of U.K. and Europe compared to America, starting from when Robinson Crusoe was published.

Second we discussed realism and verisimilitude in Robinson Crusoe. In the Jonathan Buckley's Booker nominated novel, One Boat there is a discussion happening between an author and her agent/publisher. The agent criticizes an aspect of her new work and the author argues back, "I appeal on the grounds of veracity" The agent responds, "Reality is neither here nor there...Verisimilitude is what counts." Those remarks are fairly profound not only relation to all literature or what we are fed in the form of news today, but also to Robinson Crusoe and what Defoe achieved in giving verisimilitude to his character and novel.

Both f the above thoughts have occupied my thinking. When I started this post, I got disrupted and came back to see others were posting with similar thoughts. Glad to see these and hope I haven't stepped on anyone's post since I have not read the others yet.

[Sam]

Lori wrote: "Since finishing this novel, I have had time to think about the legacy it has left in pop culture. Especially in tv and movies we still love to watch survival type shows like Gilligan’s Island, Surv..."

Lori wrote: "Since finishing this novel, I have had time to think about the legacy it has left in pop culture. Especially in tv and movies we still love to watch survival type shows like Gilligan’s Island, Surv..."

I agree, in obvious as well as more subtle influences.

[Plateresca]

Lori, that's an interesting thought. I think everybody has a 'pop' image of Robinson, which is not exactly the Robinson of the book we've just read.

Sam, I agree, Erich's leading is a treat, we've been lucky to have him :)

Re: verisimilitude. But you see, Alexander Selkirk was real. E.g., Wiki says,
'At first, Selkirk remained along the shoreline of Más a Tierra. During this time, he ate spiny lobsters and scanned the ocean daily for rescue, suffering all the while from loneliness, misery, and remorse. Hordes of raucous sea lions, gathering on the beach for the mating season, eventually drove him to the island's interior. Once inland, his way of life took a turn for the better. More foods were available there: feral goats—introduced by earlier sailors—provided him with meat and milk, while wild turnips, the leaves of the indigenous cabbage tree and dried Schinus fruits (pink peppercorns) offered him variety and spice. Rats would attack him at night, but he was able to sleep soundly and in safety by domesticating and living near feral cats.

Selkirk proved resourceful in using materials that he found on the island: he forged a new knife out of barrel hoops left on the beach; built two huts out of pepper trees, one of which he used for cooking and the other for sleeping; and employed his musket to hunt goats and his knife to clean their carcasses. As his gunpowder dwindled, he had to chase prey on foot. During one such chase, he was badly injured when he tumbled from a cliff, lying helpless and unable to move for about a day. His prey had cushioned his fall, probably sparing him a broken back.'

Fantastic as this sounds, this is supposed to be true; so of course, what we would now call Defoe's fictionalised bio of that person sounds very plausible.
(Yeah, and this is very pertinent to the news, too: if you mix in some truth, most people don't notice a certain amount of exaggeration, or worse).

[Erich C]

I'm sorry not to have commented earlier! I have been having the problems with notifications that another member reported. I'm not sure what the fix is, but unchecking and rechecking the notification box hasn't worked.

I think that Plateresca's point that "But when he finally had friends, he was in such a hurry to leave the island, he couldn't even wait for some of them to come back from an expedition to a neighbouring island" reflects a feature of Defoe's writing in the novel: characters exist to push the main plot forward and Defoe doesn't see the need to resolve their sub-plotlines. So for the purposes of the main plot, it doesn't matter what has become of the others. It is puzzling to me that Defoe chose to introduce those characters in the first place and then to completely drop a plot that would have RC working with the others to escape the island. Did he decide in the process of writing not to go that direction? But then why not revise the plot to cut it out?

Like Lori, I have also given a lot of thought to the effects of RC on popular culture, how it is almost (at least in the US) part of our cultural DNA. In the Norton edition, Ian Watt points out in his essay Robinson Crusoe as a Myth that by the end of the nineteenth century there were 700 alternative versions of the book, including translations into various languages as well as adaptations and spin-offs. The entire genre of similar stories is referred to as Robinsonade, and like the Bible it permeates culture so that people may not even realize the debt.

With that in mind, Sam's observation that the book aligns with the American focus on individualism makes me wonder how much of American individualism is independent but aligned with works like Robinson Crusoe versus how much it has developed as a result of such works; it's a bit of a snake-eating-its-tail situation. Also, would the book have as much appeal in a more collectivist society, and to what extent do alternative versions adapt the work to the mores of different cultures?

I'm about halfway through Friday, or, The Other Island, and Michel Tournier has made his Robinson very different than "our" RC. He has him shipwrecked in 1759 (about a hundred years after Defoe's). He was brought up as a Quaker (the Bible is inspired by God but is a product of humans, more important is the "Inward Light" of God's presence in the believer). His journal is full of very un-1759 and un-Quaker reflections such as the island as a female sexual force, so it's hard for me to get past that kind of thing after our careful study of the original. At any rate, it shows how the essential myth can be modified to serve alternative goals.

The topic of verisimilitude also came up for us at the beginning, so it is nice to circle back to that now that we have completed the book. While the adventures in the early part of the novel (the repeated shipwrecks, slavery and escape) seem somewhat unplausible, the "pre-contact" period of RC's time on the island is very believable, both because of the overabundance of detail in some cases and because of the lack of detail in others. Then, in the later part of the novel, Defoe introduces more fantastical elements and confused plot directions.

It strikes me that the strongest and "realest" parts of the story are most closely based on Defoe's source material and the true story that Plateresca shared with us about Alexander Selkirk.