Classics and the Western Canon discussion
Ovid, Metamorphoses - Revisited
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Week 2 — Books 2 & 3
Just getting started on reading this set. I thought the description of Phaethon's ride was exciting. It felt like a Hollywood movie car chase scene. I don't have much to say about the story, just some general takeaways.
* the description of Apollo's palace is a good flex of Ovid's poetic muscle, he is showing off there
* we have destruction by fire (book 2) instead of by flood (book 1)
* The transformations of the land (to desert), his sisters (trees), and family friend (swan) felt gratuitous. That the story served to explain the origins of these things, but didn't do it in a way that felt rewarding to me
* the moral lesson is that we need to know our limits because acting outside of them or before we are ready can be destructive to ourselves and others. His epitaph does give him credit for trying though "...HE FAILED, YET DIED FROM GREAT ENDEAVORS"
* As I understand it, these myths also served (and continue to serve) as conversation starters for moral discussions. Phaethon's story sets a nice context to discuss the responsibilities of a father, how involved they should be in a child's life, what promises should be made, what limits should be set, etc.
The punishments are rather haphazard, some people you could say this seems just others, especially the women who were victimized and then punished for being victims, seem completely unconscionable. Perhaps this is commentary on human life and the randomness of events and situations.
Mike wrote: "especially the women who were victimized and then punished for being victims..."Yes, Callisto can't win and it sucks that type of situation is still real 2,000 years later.
The story of Phoebus/Apollo and Phaethon reminded me a lot of Daedalus and Icarus--a father cautioning his son and the son paying no heed.
Tamara wrote: "The story of Phoebus/Apollo and Phaethon reminded me a lot of Daedalus and Icarus--a father cautioning his son and the son paying no heed."Definitely. I think this one is making an additional point about hubris, a boy wanting to be equal to a god. I can't remember if Daedalus does the same or not, it probably does.
Michael wrote: "Tamara wrote: "The story of Phoebus/Apollo and Phaethon reminded me a lot of Daedalus and Icarus--a father cautioning his son and the son paying no heed."Definitely. I think this one is making an..."
It their case, they were trying to flee from the labyrinth. Daedalus admonishes Icarus to not fly higher than the necessary, but when you read that you already know what will happen,
Also, the cause of death for both Phaethon and Icarus was the sun.
I don't know if we can say the Phaeton's cause of death was the sun. It was his mismanagement of car of the sun, but, in a strict sense, not the sun.
I suspect the answer to this is no, but I'm curious what other's think about Phaethon's burning of the land and the earthquakes having a possible connection to the bronze age collapse (~1200 BCE)? I saw a documentary on it that posited that the sea peoples were often refugees and displaced by famine that put a lot of pressure on cities, sometimes violently as raiders. Many of the cities that collapsed were burnt and they say there is evidence of large earthquakes across the region.
Okay. I think I've made sense of this crow and raven business. In both cases, they are punished for their prying eyes and loose tongues. It is as if you spied on someone at work, found something that would be embarrassing to the boss, and told the boss about it. The boss is then unhappy that you were spying. Some secrets are best not discovered and then if you do discover them, it is best to keep your mouth shut instead of talking about it and showing that you are a liability. In the case of the crow, the backstory that Ovid didn't tell, but maybe his audiences knew is the origin story of Erichthonius. Minerva (Pallas) likely wanted to keep it a secret because it involved her. Vulcan tried to rape her but missed and ejaculated on her leg. She wiped it off with some wool and dropped it on the ground. Fertile Gaia, with Vulcan's semen, produced "a child no mother bore". His name itself is a combination of two Greek words "eri" meaning wool and "khthon" mean earth or from the earth. Minerva collected the child and gave him to the three virgins with a command not to look. It was a secret (similar to an ancient mystery cult) that they were not to see; the nature of the child as a diety was forbidden knowledge. It was bad enough that the virgin/virgins saw it, but now this nosy crow is flying around talking about it, not good.
The raven didn't listen to the crow and was punished for a similar incident of prying eyes and a loose tongue.
Ironically, the banished crow is now telling the story again, like an ex-employee bad-mouthing their former boss.
Phaethon had the hubris to think he could fly Apollo's chariot like the god. The crow and the raven had the hubris to think they were in a privileged, secret-sharing, inner circle with gods.
The owl was elevated to replace the crow as Minerva's new aide. While the owl (Nyctimene), had a shameful past, that was okay because it was the owl's past, not Minerva's.
Ocyrhoe - If you're a prophet, don't share details that might curry the wrath of the gods.Battus - If you promise a god to keep their secret, don't turn around and share their secret for money; or any other reason, probably.
Aglauros - Don't disobey Minerva and then try to extort Mercury for profit. Two strikes and you're out sister.
In these cases, a kind of theme for Book 2 emerges. Mortals (in human or bird form) with poor character or judgment reveal their vices by saying things they shouldn't. Callisto and Europa seem to be exceptions that bookend these incidents.
Susan wrote: "Is there a story or some lines that you’d like to comment on? I noticed some wonderful descriptions in this week’s reading, including the terrible snake in the story of Cadmus."Confession, I haven't read Book 3 yet. Looking forward to snake story you recommend.
1. I feel the opening description of the palace is very strong and reminds me that Book 1 also opened well.
2. I really like Phaethon's epitaph.
3. The description of Envy personified is wonderful. Here is just a small portion
Stephanie McCarter translation
Her face is pale, her body skeletal.
Her eyes look sideways. Tartar stains her teeth.
Her chest is jaundiced. Poison soaks her tongue.
She does not smile unless she's witnessed pain
and is too racked by restless cares to sleep.
Arthur Golding translation (Elizabethan English from 1567)
Hir lippes were pale, hir cheekes were wan, and all hir face was swart:
Hir bodie leane as any Rake. She looked eke askew.
Hir teeth were furde with filth and drosse, hir gums were waryish blew.
The working of hir festered gall had made hir stomacke green.
And all bevenimde was her tongue. No sleep hir eyes had seen.
Conntinuall Carke and cankred care did keep hir waking still:
Of laughter (save at others harmes) the Helhound can no skill.
If anyone has French, Spanish, Portuguese, or Italian versions of these lines, and if they read like quality poetry, I would be happy if you shared them.
Rafael wrote: "I don't know if we can say the Phaeton's cause of death was the sun. It was his mismanagement of car of the sun, but, in a strict sense, not the sun."Yes, but you can say the same thing about Icarus. It was his mismanagement of the wings that caused him to get too close to the sun. The car and the wings are vehicles. Both boys were warned about the use of the vehicles and both ignored the warnings.
Tamara wrote: "The car and the wings are vehicles. Both boys were warned about the use of the vehicles and both ignored the warnings."If I ever decide to try and translate this on my own, I will take poetic license to mention the pilots' license that neither boy had.. At least there was no agenda at the time back that would blame the crashes on DEI.
I do have to blame Apollo as a poor instructor who surely set Phaethon up for failure despite all his foreboding and worry before the flight and his grief over it afterwards.
He trembled now, not knowing how to wieldI do appreciate all the imagination that went into the descriptions of the damage to the Earth from such a flight. Is it an ancient Roman lesson in climate change :)
The borrowed reins, nor knowing where to go,
Nor, had he known, could he have led them there.
(Soucy)
I’m intrigued by a situation that I’m guessing that folklorists have a name for, and it has to do with granting boons with unintended consequences. In Book 2, Phaethon’s story, the sun says to Phaethon yes, I’m your father, banish your doubts, followed by “Now ask me whatever favor you will, and I shall bestow it. » He then calls on the Stygian marsh to witness his promise. Phaethon immediately asks for the chance to drive his father’s chariot for a day. To which the sun says “your request has proved my promise too rash.How I wish I could break it!” . And in Book 3 we have Semele asking Jupiter, ´Please will you give me whatever I ask for?’ To which he acquiesces, and swears by the river Styx to keep his promise. Semele then asks him to come to her bed in the same guise that he would appear to Juno. “Neither her wish nor his solemn oath could now be retracted.” Interestingly the sun god does give Phaethon the chance to retract his wish, which Phaethon does not do. But in both situations the mortals are really making a death wish, through their own ignorance, among other character traits.
Tamara wrote: "Rafael wrote: "I don't know if we can say the Phaeton's cause of death was the sun. It was his mismanagement of car of the sun, but, in a strict sense, not the sun."Yes, but you can say the same ..."
But in Phaeton's case was incompetence, Icarus' was hubris.
Janet wrote: "I’m intrigued by a situation that I’m guessing that folklorists have a name for, and it has to do with granting boons with unintended consequences. In Book 2, Phaethon’s story, the sun says to Phae..."That would be interesting to know more about from a folklorist or mythologist's perspective. Probably also a psychological thing.
It is like we humans are trying to negotiate a contract with forces that we don't understand to give ourselves some assurances. In these cases, they wished for too much. But, it reminds of getting three wishes for freeing a genie from its lamp or promising god you'll go back to church if he'll only help you get out of the jam you're in.
I believe a verbal agreement was much more meaningful in ancient times and these stories show the desire to have gods or forces of nature adhere to that same morality.
Janet wrote: "I’m intrigued by a situation that I’m guessing that folklorists have a name for, and it has to do with granting boons with unintended consequences...."Alfred Lord Tennyson's poem "Tithonus" is a beautiful poem about granting a boon that has unintended consequences.
Aurora grants Tithonus' wish for immortality, but he doesn't ask for everlasting youth. The unintended consequence is Tithonus gets older and older but never gets the release of death.
https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem...
"She did not care to spin soft woolor style her locks. A clasp secured her clothes,
and a white headband bound her messy hair."
With this description, Callisto is described as someone that doesn't conform to popular gender norms and matronly virtues. There was a often used tombstone inscription for wives that illustrates the valued norms "domi mansit, lanam fecit", basically, she stayed at home and worked with wool. Callisto's description of her as a virgin hunter that doesn't work wool, keep her hair, or wear fancy clothing with adornments, paints her as a non-conformist when it comes to gendered expectations.
I think her conversion into a bear shows parts of her nature, strength and wildness, as well as perhaps some anger for what was done to her.
I don't know what to make of her being the daughter of Lycaön.
Michael wrote: "I don't know what to make of her being the daughter of Lycaön."In some version of the myth, there is a direct connection between Lycaön's treatment of Zeus and Callisto's story. Lycaön had a grudge against Zeus because of abduction and later punishment of his daughter. Even more often (afaik) it was Arcas's flesh which was served at the feast. I wonder why Ovid separated this two story in the book.
Alexey wrote: "Michael wrote: "Lycaön had a grudge against Zeus because of abduction and later punishment of his daughter. Even more often (afaik) it was Arcas's flesh which was served at the feast."That makes a lot of sense. Thank you.
But as I understand, it is not the most widespread version of the myth. Usually, it is Lycaön's arrogance alone, despite he slaughters his grandson and Zeus's son.For me, the version with revenge just makes a better story.
There is a lot going on in The Raven and the Crow.A Raven witnesses Coronis being unfaithful to Apollo. A crow, who ironically fails at its own advice, warns the raven to mind its own business.
The Crow refers to herself the daughter of the “well-known” King Coroneus of Phocis, which (as Soucy notes) is likely a joke since no such king is known outside Ovid. The Crow, who is not named, suggests her former identity has been completely consumed by her metamorphosis into the crow by Minerva (Athena) to save her from being raped by Poseidon.
The crow then informs Minerva that a girl named Nyctimene has debauched her father's bed! Minerva turns Nyctimene into an owl yet makes the owl her favorite and demotes the crow. The phrase “debauched her father’s bed” ambiguously assigns blame to Nyctimene, but later interpretations (and Minerva’s favor) suggest she was likely raped by her father. The language may reflect how victims in myth are both punished and sanctified, their trauma transformed into divine emblems. Because Nyctimene was elevated to Minerva's favorite, the interpretations that indicate she was raped by her father are more likely than the interpretation she seduced him.
The Raven ignores the advise and Apollo reacts by:
1. Killing Coronis, who is pregnant with his child.
2. Embraced her, and performed unrighteous rites, i.e., necrophilia.
3. Removes his son from Coronis, and deliverers it to the Centaur Chiron to raise.
4. Turns Edgar Allan Poe's most iconic bird black, ensuring, Quoth the Raven, Nevermore
This seems to have it all. Betrayals, Informers, adultery or unfaithfulness, lying, joking, jealousy/envy, lust, rape, hypocrisy, wrath, injustice, meddling, disobedience, punished obedience, favoritism, and necrophilia.
It reminds me of a scene from the movie Blazing Saddles (1974) in which various villains are being interviewed for a raid on the town:
Hedley Lamarr: Qualifications?If the Applicant in that scene had been costumed as a Greek god instead of a cowboy I would not wonder why.
Applicant: Rape, murder, arson, and rape.
Hedley Lamarr: You said rape twice.
Applicant: I like rape.
Tamara wrote: "Janet wrote: "I’m intrigued by a situation that I’m guessing that folklorists have a name for, and it has to do with granting boons with unintended consequences...."Alfred Lord Tennyson's poem "T..."
Thank you for that link, Tamara, that’s quite a powerful poem, and made me wonder if writers such as John Collier or Daphne du Maurier or Rod Serling took up this particular device of asking for the gift of immortality but failing to ask for eternal youth. Couldn’t find anything by them but did learn that an X File episode was inspired by Tithonus’s story. Also made me think of the opposite situation: an immortal who gives up immortality to spend the rest of their ( now abbreviated) life to be with a mortal. The only ones that came to mind were the elf Arwen in Lord of the Rings and the angel played by Bruno Ganz in Wim Wenders’s film, Wings of Desire.
Janet wrote: "Thank you for that link, Tamara, that’s quite a powerful poem,.."You're welcome, Janet. Glad you enjoyed it. Tennyson is one of my favorite poets.
Michael wrote: "Susan wrote: "Is there a story or some lines that you’d like to comment on? I noticed some wonderful descriptions in this week’s reading, including the terrible snake in the story of Cadmus."Conf..."
The passage on Envy is a fairly typical set-piece for personifications, but very well done. As I recall, they show up thick and heavy in the later Roman poet Statius, and were popular in the Middle Ages.
It reminds me, in various translations, of a passage in Coleridge's Rime of the Ancient Mariner, which was probably influenced fairly directly by such prior poetic personifications:
Her lips were red, her looks were free,
Her locks were yellow as gold:
Her skin was as white as leprosy,
The Night-mare LIFE-IN-DEATH was she,
Who thicks man's blood with cold.
Janet, the Rash Boon (or Promise) is M223 in the great “Motif-Index of Folk-Literature,” on which see Wikipedia, as also for the “Rash promise” in particular.
Ian wrote: "Janet, the Rash Boon (or Promise) is M223 in the great “Motif-Index of Folk-Literature,” on which see Wikipedia, as also for the “Rash promise” in particular."Many thanks, Ian, for pointing me to this index, and for telling me the name is the rash promise, or boon, which kind of says it all. I’m going to revisit this index when thinking about other stories, that will no doubt be illustrative of other motifs!
Although left out in most retellings, King Arthur receives Excalibur at the price of a Rash Boon, the story being distributed over the later chapters of Book One and the early chapters of Book Two of “Le Morte D’Arthur.” And of course “Sir Gawain and the Green Knight” is a pure example of a Rash Promise. Lots of other examples, of course, but these came readily to mind.
For another folktale resource, see Wikipedia on the “Aarne–Thompson–Uther Index” of tale types.
I felt Books 2 and 3 are all about boundaries being tested and crossed - between mortals and gods, humans and animals. The gods are powerful but petty, and the mortals are often caught up in the crossfire. Transformation is both a curse and a kind of strange immortality. Do the punishments fit the crimes? Often no. Many punishments are tragic overreactions. In book 2 especially, most of the women are victims - punished for being desired, for speaking too much (truth), or for jealousy stirred by the gods themselves. In Book 3, Actaeon and Semele are punished for curiosity. Narcissus and Echo suffer not because they were in the wrong, but for misplaced or unreciprocated love.
Many of these stories seem to involve a god rewriting the fate of a mortal; not through words, but through transformation. For example, Io is transformed more than once by Jupiter and Juno, neither of whom bother to ask what she wants. So I guess it begs the question of whose voice matters, who holds power and what gets remembered.
I'm finding this book absolutely fascinating :)
For anyone wondering how Apollo has time to get up to everything else while occupied twelve hours of the day driving the sun-chariot, Ovid is mixing up his Greek sources for the story of Phaethon.He uses a solar epithet of Apollo, Phoebus, for the boy’s father, but the rest of the description belongs to Helios (cognate of Latin *Sol*), often treated separately as in, e.g., the Cattle of the Sun episode in The Odyssey. Helios is either identical with the Titan Hyperion or his son: in the latter case his sisters were Selene, the Moon, and Eos (Latin Aurora), the Dawn.
Apollo is the son of Jupiter (Greek Zeus), and his only sister is Diana (Greek Artemis).
That should be “only full sister is Diana (Greek Artemis), his twin, often identified with the Moon as Phoebe, who is also another person in some myths."
Michael wrote: "If anyone has French, Spanish, Portuguese, or Italian versions of these lines, and if they read like quality poetry, I would be happy if you shared them"Which lines?
The actual line numbers will vary by translation because translators often find they need more lines than the original to communicate the same idea. In the Latin, they are Book II, lines 775 to 782. In McCarter, lines 840-845.Muito obrigado pela atenção dispensada
I just want to share this comment about the Phaeton myth from the last time the group read “The Metamorphoses” in 2013, because I thought Everyman had a perceptive take on the universality of the story: “ I'll offer just a brief comment on the opening myth (which is really a continuation from the end of Book 1) since I find it such a powerful myth. So much going on here. The son who believes he is ready to step into his father's big shoes. (There was a lovely ad campaign a number of years ago showing a young boy trying on his father's wingtip shoes, which obviously didn't fit, but he was so proud of pretending to be able to fill his father's shoes. But there it was innocent. not here.)
The agony of a father who has made a promise he cannot withdraw but knows that it will lead to disaster.
The impetuosity of youth which believed then and still believes today that it is indestructible. (What else can explain half pipes and mini-bike racing?)
The horror of suddenly realizing that you have bitten off more than you can chew, but there is no way out - - like jumping out of an airplane and finding out that your parachute won't open.
But it's such a universal story, isn't it? The son wanting to do, believing he can do, and the father being pretty sure he can't but how do you stop him without destroying his belief in himself? What son doesn't believe he's ready to take on his father's Porsche or Harley? Isn't this really what Apollo's chariot represents? "I can do it." "I don't think you can, son." "Yes, I can. I know I can." "Be reasonable. You're not ready." "You don't trust me." "It's not a matter of trust, it's that I love you too much to let you do this to yourself." "No, it's that you don't trust me. And you're afraid I'll succeed and show that I can do anything you can do, and you don't want that...." Has there ever been a generation of fathers and sons where this conversation, or some variant of it, hasn't taken place over and over?”. Everyman
And here’s a quote from someone else who has read the tale of Phaeton:” Gallop apace, you fiery-footed steeds,
Towards Phoebus' lodging; such a wagoner
As Phaëton would whip you to the west,
And bring in cloudy night immediately.
Spread thy close curtain, love-performing night,
That th' runaway's eyes may wink, and Romeo
Leap to these arms untalk'd of and unseen!”
This is Shakespeare’s Juliet, of course, and I don’t think I ever realized before the recklessness of her image here.
This example comes from Elizabeth Vandiver’s lectures on classic mythology as a demonstration of Ovid’s influence on Shakespeare and other authors.
Another example is the myth of Pyramus and Thisbe in book 4 which plays a key but much less serious role in “A Midsummer Night’s Dream.” It might be fun to note these Ovid/myth sightings if you have any to add.
I'm only at the beginning of book 3 (I promised myself I wouldn't be late, and yet, I'm late again), and books 2 and 3 have my favourite parts so far:-the description of Envy. Very vivid!
- the tale about the Raven and the Crow. I feel like it would be a wonderful idea if a writer wanted to re-write it. To me, it has those "modern world" vibes.
- the Dragon / Serpent (? no idea wich world is used most commonly in English, I've heard both in my language) in Cadmus's tale. But I have one question : why do the warriors fight each other when they grow out of the ground? Wouldn't it be better if they all declared themselves loyal to Cadmus right at the start?
Edit to add : I wish my copy of the book had family trees... I'm not new to mythology, but still ... so many names! So many "sons / daughters of"!
Another edit : poor Actaeon! Women have a rough fate in those tales, but some of the men's are not any better. Being bit to death by your own hunting dogs, with your fellow hunters watching and cheering... and all that because he accidentaly got a glimpse of Diana. I'm curious, what do you all think of it?
Tiresias's story is my favourite myth, bar none. It can be considered comic (nearly clownish or slpastick : the man sees snakes, hits them with a stick (WHY????) and is changed into a woman... again, why?), but I can't help but imagine his life when he was changed into a woman... Like, I'm sure he could not go on having his "manly" life undisturbed : so, who had authority over Tiresias? Was it a father / a brother? Was he married? Did he have children? What happened to his dependants? Could he keep his properties, if he had any? So many questions... If anyone knows additionnal sources, I'd love to read more.Instead of asking Tiresias who has the most pleasure, Zeus and Hera should have asked him about who has the best life overall.
Also, the unfairness of being asked to arbitrate between two of the most powerful beings in the universe! Talk about a "no-win scenario"!
La_mariane wrote: "the man sees snakes, hits them with a stick (WHY????) and is changed into a woman... again, why?)."In many world mythologies, anything that "dies" into itself and emerges with new life is associated with transformation and with the feminine principle. Snakes are symbols of transformation because they shed their old skin and are born anew. Same with the butterfly which emerges from the chrysalis; the moon, which dies into its shadow and is born anew each month, and so on. They are associated with the feminine principle because a woman "sheds" her skin every month through her menstrual cycle and is "born" anew.
I think a snake is used in the Tiresias story because of its association with transformation.
Tamara wrote: "La_mariane wrote: "the man sees snakes, hits them with a stick (WHY????) and is changed into a woman... again, why?)."In many world mythologies, anything that "dies" into itself and emerges with ..."
Intersting information, thanks!
It opens up an ironic interpretation : Tiresias, by hitting the snakes, is symbolically doing violence against women. Then, is it a just punishment for him to be turned into a woman against his will? Talk about walking a (very long) mile in her shoes...
La_mariane wrote: "It opens up an ironic interpretation : Tiresias, by hitting the snakes, is symbolically doing violence against women..."It may be possible to read it that way. But I see it more as an indication he will experience transformation.
The story of Narcissus as a cautionary tale about the dangers of extreme self-absorption. Narcissus is unnecessarily cruel and harsh when he rejects the advances of those who love him. Nemesis punishes him by causing him to suffer the pangs of self-love. He falls in love with his own image reflected in the pool. Because he is unable to forgo the sight of his beloved, he wastes away and dies.His extreme self love is sterile, unhealthy, and lacks compassion. It does not acknowledge the needs of others and/or treat them with sympathy. He denies community and is unremittingly self-focused. Because he lacks compassion for anyone but himself, he self-destructs.
On a related note:In the Homeric Hymn to Demeter, The young Persephone is innocently playing in the Nysian plain when she spies a luxurious narcissus with hundreds of blooms. The narcissus has been deliberately placed to entice her. As soon as she plucks it, she opens a chasm in the earth from which Hades emerges in his chariot and kidnaps her to the underworld.
La_mariane wrote: "Tiresias's story is my favourite myth, bar none."I recently enjoyed this group of poems that adapts the Tiresias story to a contemporary setting. Their transformations make them a bit of a symbol for the trans community, though that is not an emphasis in these poems. Ultimately, in this collection, it is the sum of those varied experiences that produces an insightful prophet.
Hold Your Own
Michael wrote: "La_mariane wrote: "Tiresias's story is my favourite myth, bar none."I recently enjoyed this group of poems that adapts the Tiresias story to a contemporary setting. Their transformations make the..."
Thanks for the reference.
I switched translations, and noted that at II.118 Ovid specifically calls Phoebus a Titan, a member of the older generation of gods before Jupiter and the Olympians, and I confirmed that in the Latin. So, despite glossaries and indexes, Ovid may be distinguishing the Sun from Phoebus Apollo. To be taken into consideration with my previous comments on the Solar family.By the way, Lucifer, light-bringer, in the same passage is Venus as the morning star. The diabolical associations of the name come from the Vulgate Latin of Isaiah, where it is used to translate a Hebrew word (or name) meaning Shining One. See Wikipedia on Lucifer for references.
La_mariane wrote: "Another edit : poor Actaeon! Women have a rough fate in those tales, but some of the men's are not any better. Being bit to death by your own hunting dogs, with your fellow hunters watching and cheering... and all that because he accidentaly got a glimpse of Diana. I'm curious, what do you all think of it?"Ovid says it’s not Actaeon’s fault: “for the one to fault is Fate—/there is no crime in making a mistake.” (Book 3, around line 140). But the poem gives a horrifying description of his destruction. It seems as though there are stories where one could avoid one’s fate by humility, not comparing oneself to the gods, etc, but other stories where someone was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Tamara wrote: "The story of Narcissus as a cautionary tale about the dangers of extreme self-absorption. Narcissus is unnecessarily cruel and harsh when he rejects the advances of those who love him. Nemesis puni..."Ovid’s psychology here seems right on target. His observations of human nature in general seem sharp and acute. Whether his characterizations of the gods are accurate? I guess we have to take those on faith
Book 2 includes: Phaethon (continued), Jove in Arcady, The Story of the Raven; The Story of Ocyrhoe, Mercury and Battus; Mercury, Herse, and Aglauros; The House of the Goddess Envy, and Europa & Jove.
Book 3 includes: The Story of Cadmus, The Story of Actaeon, The Story of Semele, The Story of Tiresias, The Story of Narcissus & Echo, and Pentheus & Bacchus.
As we continue on with Ovid’s myths, here are a few questions that come to mind from this week’s reading:
—Are humans treated justly by the gods in these stories?
—Do the “punishments” fit the “crimes?”
—Is there a story or some lines that you’d like to comment on? I noticed some wonderful descriptions in this week’s reading, including the terrible snake in the story of Cadmus.