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Robinson Crusoe (beg.) by Daniel Defoe - Group Read (hosted by Erich)
ROBINSON CRUSOE: THREAD 1Full title: The Life and Strange Surprizing Adventures of Robinson Crusoe, of York, Mariner: Who lived Eight and Twenty Years, all alone in an un-inhabited Island on the Coast of America, near the Mouth of the Great River of Oroonoque
Daniel Defoe, artist unknown: in the style of Sir Godfrey Kneller, 17th-18th c
National Maritime Museum, Greenwich, London, Caird Collection
LINKS TO READING SECTIONS: (ongoing)Preface and (Chapter 1)
"I was born in the Year 1632..." to "...I can give no Consent to it." (10 paragraphs)(Chapter 2)
"It was not till almost a Year after this..." to "...North even to the Line it self." (24 paragraphs)---break day---
(Chapter 3)
"I was now set up for a Guiney Trader..." to "...go all over the World with me." (13 paragraphs)(Chapter 3 cont.)
"While I was in View of the Moor that was swimming..." to "...those things will help you to buy your Subsistance there and your Passage home again." (24 paragraphs)---break day---
(Chapter 4)
"As he was Charitable in his Proposal..." to "...consistent with Life and a State of Health in the World." (17 paragraphs)(Chapter 5)
"To come then by the just Degrees..." to "...that I think I ever was on such an Occasion." (27 paragraphs)---break day---
(Chapter 6)
"When I wak'd it was broad Day..." to "...the Enemies that I apprehended Danger from." (35 paragraphs)(Chapter 7)
"Into this Fence or Fortress..." to "...in the Latitude of 9 Degrees 22 Minutes North of the Line." (13 paragraphs)---break day—
(Chapter 8)
"After I had been there about Ten or Twelve Days..." to "...having no more Ink I was forc'd to leave it off." (18 paragraphs)(Chapter 9)
"The Journal..." to "...which made my Heart very heavy." (63 paragraphs)---break day—
(Chapter 10)
"May 1...." to "...I return to my Journal." (66 paragraphs)(Chapter 11)
"My Condition began now to be..." to "...to drive them from my House as much as possible." (22 paragraphs)(Chapter 11 cont.)
"From the fourteenth of August..." to "...and my Gun, Ammunition, Hatchet, and other Things very heavy." (29 paragraphs)---break day---
(Chapter 12)
”In this Journey my Dog surpriz’d a young Kid...” to “...would fully provide me with Bread, &c.” (43 paragraphs)---break day—
(Chapter 13)
”All the while these Things were doing...” to “...the utmost Enjoyment of humane Society in the World.” (39 paragraphs)(Chapter 14)
”I cannot say that after this...” to “...till she dy’d at last of meer Age.” (29 paragraphs)---two break days—
(LINK TO SECOND THREAD)
Daniel Defoe: Brief BiographyDaniel Defoe was born Daniel Foe in London in 1660. His father, James, was a prosperous tallow chandler (an artisan who makes candles from animal fat) who, after being forced out of the Church of England, joined the dissenting Presbyterians. His mother, Alice, died when he was only eight years old.
In 1665, the Great Plague of London killed 70,000 people. The following year, the Great Fire of London spared only three houses in Defoe’s neighborhood, including his own. The author later based his A Journal of the Plague Year on the former event.
Defoe received a (dissenting) religious education and originally planned for a ministerial career before he eventually became a successful merchant, trading in hosiery, wine, and tobacco. In 1684, he married Mary Tuffley, who brought him a sizeable dowry and would later bear him seven children.
Although the 1680s were successful years for Defoe, by 1692 he was in debt for 17,000 pounds and declared bankruptcy. In the following years, he wrote political, economic, and religious tracts. He hoped to gain preferment from the Protestant William III, but the monarch’s death in 1702 and the ascension of the Anglican Anne ended his aspirations. In fact, his attacks on the Church landed him in Newgate Prison, where his punishment included three days in the pillory.
Defoe was released thanks to the efforts of Robert Harley, a powerful Tory (conservative) earl and statesman. In exchange for his release, Defoe agreed to act as an intelligence agent and propagandist for the Tories. After Anne’s death in 1714, the opportunistic Defoe continued to do intelligence work but for the Whig (liberal) government, including writing “Tory” pamphlets that undermined Tory positions.
In 1713-1714, Defoe was arrested several times for debt and his political writings. From 1719-1724, he produced his most well-known works: Robinson Crusoe, Captain Singleton, Moll Flanders, A Journal of the Plague YearColonel Jack, , and Roxana. In spite of his success, Defoe never seems to have overcome his debts; he died of a stroke in 1731 in Ropemaker’s Alley, London while hiding from creditors.
Sources
Robinson Crusoe (Norton Critical Edition)
Daniel Defoe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_...
Daniel Defoe in the PilloryDuring his imprisonment in Newgate, Defoe was made to stand in the pillory for three days. A pillory was a wooden device used for public punishment and humiliation. It was often affixed on a raised platform in a public market or crossroads.
The victim’s head and hands were secured through the holes in the pillory, and the person had to stand stooped over for the term of the punishment. Standing in the pillory was not only uncomfortable, but it was humiliating. When people heard that someone was in the pillory, they gathered excitedly. They would taunt and laugh; throw rotten food, mud, and excrement; and even physically assault the person in the pillory.
Most pillory sentences were for a few hours, but Defoe was sentenced to three full days of punishment for his attacks on the Church and on the hypocrisy of Dissenters. As he awaited his pillory sentence, Defoe wrote and published his A Hymn to the Pillory, which begins:
Hail hieroglyphic state machine,
Contrived to punish fancy in:
Men that are men in thee can feel no pain,
And all thy insignificant disdain.
Contempt, that false new word for shame,
Is, without crime, an empty name,
A shadow to amuse mankind,
But never frights the wise or well-fixed mind:
Virtue despises human scorn,
And scandals innocence adorn.
Exalted on thy stool of state,
What prospect do I see of sovereign fate!
How the inscrutables of Providence
Differ from our contracted sense!
Here by the errors of the town
The fools look out and knaves look on.
Persons or crimes find here the same respect,
And vice does virtue oft correct,
The undistinguished fury of the street,
Which mob and malice mankind greet:
No bias can the rabble draw,
But dirt throws dirt without respect to merit or to law.
According to legend, Defoe’s poem gained him sympathy from the crowd, and as he served his sentence onlookers threw flowers and drank his health.
Daniel Defoe in the Pillory by Eyre Crowe, 1862
Salford Museum & Art Gallery
Sources
Daniel Defoe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_...
A Hymn to the Pillory from The earlier life and the chief earlier works of Daniel Defoe pp 243 ff: https://archive.org/details/earlierli...
Wow, Erich, what an impressive start to a thread! I have taken my 'RC' volume from the shelf and am looking forward to reading this with you and the group.
(Please tell me if we're not supposed to comment yet, and I will delete this post, no need to put me in the pillory! ;)).
Mod
We still have many of these pillory structures extant outside old castles etc., and call them "stocks". Perhaps this is a colloquial use which has now become standard? People love to have themselves photographed "in the stocks", in our modern way.🙄 And it's a great threat to hold over kids ...
It's easy to imagine though, what it must have been like to have been trapped there for hours, on your knees, with people throwing rotten fruit and veg at you. (Three days - wow!) Some have three holes, for two arms and a head in the middle as shown, and some just two, one for each leg.
I've read Robinson Crusoe twice, once as a kid and once as a homeschooling parent, and reviewed it (retrospectively) back in, I think, 2019. (It got a solid three stars from me.) Although I won't be rereading it with the group, I'll follow the thread with interest (I've already greatly enjoyed Erich's excellent introductory posts!), and will contribute to the discussion if I can.
Thanks for all the wonderful insights and information Erich! I am in for this one, and will be starting shortly. I noticed that the hardcover copy I borrowed from my library does not have chapters but that my kindle version does. I read up on this and it seem to be that some versions do have chapters and some do not. Interesting.
I am very excited to read this book with the group. Ever since reading The Moonstone a few years ago, and Gabriel Betteredge is constantly referencing his copy for answers and guidance! Thank you, Erich, for taking this classic on with our group! And thank you for the background info and interesting notes about Defoe himself. He lived a difficult life if he was always in debt and never able to get out of it. Certainly the era he lived in is one I’m not jealous of myself! Not a promising period in history. I have my copy ready for tomorrow, right? 25th we begin?
Thank you for the introductory information, Erich. My copy of the book does not have chapter markings so I have the breaks all set with sticky notes. I might have read a children's book of the story as a child, but this is my first time to read the real novel.
Mod
A Note about the Text and EditionsRobinson Crusoe is one of the most widely published books ever written. During its first year, it went through four editions.
Defoe’s handwritten manuscript has not been preserved, so all recent editions are based on one of (or a combination of) the earlier editions of the novel. Many modern editions seek to regularize punctuation, spelling, and capitalization, so there are variations from publisher to publisher.
The original work was not divided into chapters, but many modern editions do so. In some modern editions, sections of text (particularly in the last part of the book) have been edited or even cut out entirely.
These textual variations present challenges for a group read since members will likely be using several different versions of the text. Therefore, as you can see from the reading schedule in message 3, I have designated the daily readings according to the most common chapter divisions as well as according to start/finish text and number of paragraphs. I hope that this organization will allow us all to keep pace.
Welcome, everyone, and thank you for your first posts!Plateresca, Jean, Franky, Lori, and Connie, I'm looking forward to your comments as we go. Werner, feel free to jump in any time even if you aren't participating in the daily read.
A couple of you have already noticed the textual differences from publisher to publisher (see my message 13 above). Along with introducing yourself, please share which version of the text you are using for this read!
I am using the Norton Critical edition, which does not divide the text into chapters and which preserves Defoe's capitalization and punctuation style. I also have a Grosset & Dunlap Illustrated Junior Library edition which includes chapter divisions.
Erich, thank you for all the interesting information. I will be joining in this read. I already know (having read Chapt 1 of my edition) that the chapters don't line up with your start/end text. I'll figure it out as best as I can. I'm sure there won't be a problem.
I have the Zinc Read edition on my ereader. I just picked one from the many, many choices. I hope it has all the parts of the book in it.
I've read Robinson Crusoe as a child....about 10 or so years old, and remember really enjoying it. I'm sure it was a children's version, so I haven't read the original text and am looking forward to it.
Hello Erich and everyone. I am looking forward to all your thoughts on this book. I'm using the Norton as well if my old beat copy holds up. I have a sentimental feeling for Robinson Crusoe, since it was probably the first classic literature to which I was introduced. I lost my mother when I was young and my father read this to me as a bedtime story when I was too young to understand half the words but I was enthralled. My father either wasn't aware of educational levels or simply disregarded them so instead of getting The Cat in the Hat or even The Adventures of Tom Sawyer, I got what he wanted to read and this was the first one I remember. I have read it a couple of more times since but not in the last forty years so I look forward to how it will read now that I am much older.
Summary of Preface and (Chapter 1)
In the Preface, the editor sets a religious didactic tone for the novel, stressing the fact that Crusoe’s story is an “Example” to instruct others to accept “the Wisdom of Providence.” He also states that he “believes the thing to be a just History of Fact,” framing the narrative as factual.
Chapter 1 describes Robinson Crusoe’s background. He was born in 1632 in York. He had two brothers, one of whom was killed in battle and the other of whom disappeared. Like his brothers, Robinson had an “Inclination” for adventure and longed to go to sea. He refers to this characteristic as “something fatal in that Propension of Nature tending directly to the Life of Misery which was to befal me.”
Robinson’s father, “who was very ancient,” encouraged Robinson to remain in York since there he “had a Prospect of raising my Fortune by Application and Industry, with a Life of Ease and Pleasure.” He urged him to remain in “the middle State,” where he would be “not exposed to the Miseries and Hardships, the Labour and Sufferings of the mechanick Part of Mankind, and not embarrass’d with the Pride, Luxury, Ambition and Envy of the upper Part of Mankind.” He also warns Robinson that “if I did take this foolish Step, God would not bless me, and I would have Leisure hereafter to reflect upon having neglected his Counsel when there might be none to assist in my Recovery,” a warning that the narrator calls “Prophetick.”
Although for a few days his father’s words affected him powerfully, Robinson’s wanderlust soon returned. He confided in his mother that, being 18 years old, he had resolved to go, but he asked her to intercede with his father to seek his blessing. She refused and sided with her husband, who told her, “That Boy might be happy if he would stay at home, but if he goes abroad he will be the miserablest Wretch that was ever born.”
The Hero’s JourneyIn the first pages, Defoe signals that Robinson Crusoe is embarking on a quest or Hero’s Journey. Here is an illustration that summarizes the basic elements of the Hero’s Journey:
Robinson has received the Call to Adventure! Looking forward to your comments.
Welcome, Petra and Sam! I love that you both were introduced to the book in your formative years.My first "real" lit book was probably The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, but even children's lit was more heavy-duty back then.
Thanks for the summary, Erich. My copy doens't have a preface. While reading the first chapter, I did notice the references to God and the contemplation given to His wisdom. I was wondering whether God's providence would play a larger part of this story. This first section is interesting. Crusoe's parents raised him rather relaxed in ways. He seems not to have been trained towards any career, but allowed to enjoy himself without applying himself. He's now at an age where he cannot easily enter business. ("that I ws ow eighteen years old, which is too late to go apprentice to a trade or clerk to an attorney"). He's already missed opportunities and narrowed his future possibilities. This may be adding to his wanderlust because he hasn't got many options.
The other thing I noticed was this was told as a memoir, showing that Crusoe survives whatever comes next. I understand that revelation now that you've pointed out the Hero's Journey storyline. He's meant to return and Defoe is setting the narrative spin in these few pages.
Here is a copy of the preface from 1801 edition,If ever the story of any private man's adventures in the world were worth making public, and were acceptable when published, the Editor of this account thinks this will be so.
The wonders of this man's life exceed all that (he thinks) is to be found extant; the life of one man being scarce capable of a greater variety.
The story is told with modesty, with seriousness, and with a religious application of events to the uses to which wise men always apply them, viz. to the instruction of others by this example, and to justify and honour the wisdom of Providence in all the variety of our circumstances, let them happen how they will.
The editor believes this narrative to be a just history of fact; neither is their any appearance of fiction in it: and though he is well aware there are many, who on account of the very singular preservations the author met with, will give it the name of romance; yet in which ever of these lights it shall be viewed, he imagines, that the improvement of it, as well as the diversion, as to the instruction of the reader, will be the same; and as such, he thinks, without farther compliment to the world, he does them a great service in the publication.
Off: My mother certainly disregarded 'educational levels', as Sam puts it, so guess what she chose as our bedtime read... Dickens, among other things :) She also read 'The Vampyre' by Polidori to me, and she was shocked that I couldn't sleep for weeks afterwards. And to this day, I associate the words 'Sing, O goddess, the anger of Achilles son of Peleus' with a very small bed in a very small room :)I read 'Robinson Crusoe' when I was at school, and I think I remember it pretty well; we'll see how much I am mistaken :) I am using the Penguin Classics edition now, and it has no chapters. I am enjoying the spelling :)
Erich, thank you for reminding us of the idea of the hero's journey. Your scheme makes me wonder: is it supposed to be a continuous thing?
I think it's the most natural thing in the world, for a young person to be affected by their parents' words for several days, and then completely forget all about it :) I feel truly sorry for Robinson's parents, but, knowing what we do about the story, the beginning sounds darkly ironic.
All three of the older Crusoe brothers had a yearning for adventure. I would imagine they all had similar advice from their father, but chose to ignore it. It almost feels like the hand of God or a curse is put on them if they don't follow the parents' advice since one brother was killed, another disappeared, and we all have a general idea of what happened to Robinson.
I haven't started yet, but I have the 2001 Penguin Classics edition and I note that it is not divided into chapters. This will be a first time read for me!
Petra wrote: "Crusoe's parents raised him rather relaxed in ways."He also refers to his father as "very ancient." He respects him and wants his approval, but the pull of the sea is stronger than reverence.
Connie wrote: It almost feels like the hand of God or a curse is put on them if they don't follow the parents' advice."
There is definitely a didactic purpose to Robinson's narrative, as referenced in the Preface. As we read, it will be interesting to notice how the work functions for different genre forms and purposes, such as the confessional, travel narrative, romance, adventure, survival, and biography.
Sam wrote: "Here is a copy of the preface from 1801 edition..."Thank you for this, Sam!
Sorry I didn't comment before the reading started. I was here, reading Erich's excellent introductions and the rest of the wonderful posts, but too busy to write myself. Today, I found some time!!I'm reading the Project Gutenberg version. I found one that includes illustrations by N.C. Wyeth, which are quite fun. The version I have does include chapter breaks, but like Petra they vary from Erich's breaks - not a problem at all - only mentioning for those who may be curious :-)
This is my first time reading RC, and I enjoyed the first chapter very much! I like what Plateresca said about it being the "most natural thing in the world" for a young person to forget their parents advice after a couple days. As I was reading, I kept thinking the same thing, but from the father's POV. Basically the father is advising his son to avoid taking any risks. A middle-class life is the best because it affords lots of happiness with very little sadness. As a middle-class mother of two sons I could very much relate to the father (and mother) in this first chapter. I want my sons to be safe and happy. But of course, a life free from adventure is not necessarily what will make my sons happy.
Plateresca wrote: "Your scheme makes me wonder: is it supposed to be a continuous thing?"That's a very good point! Does the Return prepare you for a new Call to Adventure?
Chris wrote: "I haven't started yet, but I have the 2001 Penguin Classics edition and I note that it is not divided into chapters. This will be a first time read for me!"Welcome, Chris! It's good to read with you again!
Bridget wrote: "Basically the father is advising his son to avoid taking any risks."Welcome, Bridget!
His advice is very sensible if the goal is to live a smooth life without suffering. We rarely read books about people like that, though!
I am also noticing the "middle station" lifestyle that Robinson's father purports to live by and hopes his son will live by as the best one. He also tries to persuade Robinson to remain at home, as the example of his brothers seems to be stronger than his father's pleading. As Bridget says, it is not in his nature to listen to sound advice as the bug of adventure has bitten him too greatly.That last sentence in our reading for today is very foreboding and seems to foreshadow what is to come for our young Robinson.
"That boy might be happy if he would stay at home; but if he goes abroad he will be the most miserable wretch that ever was born. I can give no consent to it.
It sounds as if his father has washed his hands of the decisions his son makes. Yet, he says he will pray for him and that he believes God will not bless him if he takes a foolish step.
Erich, I truly appreciate your moderating this group read for the Dickensians! I enjoyed so much your excellent guidance of The Life and Opinions of Tristram Shandy, Gentleman in 2023. Unfortunately, I know I won't have time to re-read this wonderful story (that I read a couple of years ago), but I will definitely pop in to read the discussion as I am able. I have overly committed myself once again.I'm already enjoying your posts and the group's comments. You have already made Robinson Crusoe so much more interesting! Thank you!
Shirley (stampartiste) wrote: "Erich, I truly appreciate your moderating this group read for the Dickensians! "Thank you for checking in, Shirley. This is the kind of book that you can jump into any time if you've read it before. I'm looking forward to your comments along the way when you have a chance!
Summary of (Chapter 2)
About a year later, Robinson had his first sea adventure when a friend invited him to join on a voyage on his father’s ship. Almost immediately, the ship was struck by a storm, and the narrator began to regret “the Breach of my Duty to God and my Father” and vowed that “if it would please God here to spare my Life this one Voyage, if ever I got once my Foot upon dry Land again, [...] I would, like a true repenting Prodigal, go home to my Father.”
When the sea calmed, Robinson’s resolutions calmed as well, and he joined his friends in a drunken debauch. Looking back, the narrator laments that he did not take the warning from “Providence,” as several days later the ship was struck with a storm that terrified even the Captain. Nearby boats were swept away or nearly foundered in the mountainous seas.
Due to the severity of the storm, the sailors were forced to cut away the masts to prevent the boat from foundering. After a leak sprung in the ship, Robinson and the other sailors worked to pump out the water from the hull. Realizing that the situation was hopeless, they hailed another ship, which sent a boat to rescue the crew. Fifteen minutes after they had entered the boat, the ship sank.
Robinson with the crew managed to land and from there walked to Yarmouth, where they were treated with sympathy by the locals.
After their rescue, Robinson noticed that his friend's "Tone was alter'd," and his father the shipmaster told him, "Young man, [...] you ought never to go to Sea any more, you ought to take this for a plain and visible Token that you are not to be a Seafaring Man." He suggested that "perhaps this is all befallen us on your Account, like Jonah in the Ship of Tarshish" and swore "I would not set my Foot in the same Ship with thee again for a Thousand Pounds." He advised Robinson to return to his father because there was "a visible Hand of Heaven against [him]" and warned him that "if you do not go back, wherever you go, you will meet with nothing but Disasters and Disappointments till your Father's Words are fulfilled upon you."
Robinson hesitated to return home because he feared ridicule and shame, but he comments that "they are not asham'd to sin, and yet are asham'd to repent; not asham'd of the action for which they ought justly to be esteemed Fools, but are asham'd of the returning, which only can make them be esteem'd wise Men."
Rather than face ridicule and reprimand, an "evil Influence" prompted Robinson to seek his fortune on a voyage to Guinea. Because he traveled as a paid passenger rather than a sailor, he reflects that he missed opportunities to learn skills and advance in life; he comments that "it was always my Fate to choose for the worse."
Robinson became acquainted with a shipmaster who was planning a voyage and who offered him a free berth as his companion. Robinson brought with him articles to trade and made a good profit, "the only Voyage which I may say was successful in all my Adventures." However, he was severely ill due to the extremely hot climate.
I read chapter 2 and it is interesting how our naive protagonist wavers so much back and forth between following the direction that seems the best from others with more knowledge and experience, and following his own inclinations, even though it seems to be leading him in the wrong direction. Feels like he will have many a lesson to go through.
The Prodigal SonRobinson compares himself to the Prodigal Son, from a parable related in Luke 15:11-32:
Jesus continued: "There was a man who had two sons. The younger one said to his father, 'Father, give me my share of the estate.' So he divided his property between them.
"Not long after that, the younger son got together all he had, set off for a distant country and there squandered his wealth in wild living. After he had spent everything, there was a severe famine in that whole country, and he began to be in need. So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs. He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything.
"When he came to his senses, he said, 'How many of my father's hired servants have food to spare, and here I am starving to death! I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired servants. So he got up and went to his father.
"But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him.
"The son said to him, 'Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.'
"But the father said to his servants, 'Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let's have a feast and celebrate. For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.' So they began to celebrate.
"Meanwhile, the older son was in the field. When he came near the house, he heard music and dancing. So he called one of the servants and asked him what was going on. 'Your brother has come,' he replied, 'and your father has killed the fattened calf because he has him back safe and sound.
"The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him. But he answered his father, 'Look! All these years I've been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!'
"'My son,' the father said, 'you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.'"
The Return of the Prodigal Son by Bartolome Esteban Murillo, 1667
National Gallery, London
Franky wrote: "I read chapter 2 and it is interesting how our naive protagonist wavers so much back and forth between following the direction that seems the best from others with more knowledge and experience, an..."Even putting aside the elements of the story that we all know even if we haven't read it, there is a serious sense of foreboding in these first pages.
Tomorrow is our first break day, so there is plenty of time for catching up and comments!
I picked up on the foreboding as well. Our hero hasn't even left the coast of England and already he's fled a sinking ship! I'm picking up too a theme of fate, that it is something we can't escape, try thought we might
But my ill-fate pushed me on now with an obstinacy that nothing could resist; and though I had several times loud calls from my reason and my more composed judgment to go home, yet I had no power to do it
It's easy for me to imagine that Defoe was conscientiously writing a best-seller: several pages in, and the protagonist is already in mortal danger. I laughed at this sentence:
'It was my advantage in one respect, that I did not know what they meant by founder till I inquired.'
Note that he's used the word 'founder' thrice by this time.
This paragraph sounded very familiar:
'<...> from whence I have since often observed, how incongruous and irrational the common temper of mankind is, especially of youth, to that reason which ought to guide them in such cases—viz. that they are not ashamed to sin, and yet are ashamed to repent; not ashamed of the action for which they ought justly to be esteemed fools, but are ashamed of the returning, which only can make them be esteemed wise men.'
Indeed, the paragraph I was remembering is quite different, but...
From 'Nicholas Nicklebly':
(view spoiler)
Is the hero's journey final or cyclical, and is what's happening to Robinson a kind of curse? I suppose Erich knows the answer to this, but probably won't tell us yet :) My thinking is... The current, 'modern' (more or less) school of thought is, it's either 'forward into growth', or 'back into safety', right? Which might be traced back to good old Aristotle and his eudaimonia. So, in this light, if adventures are Robinson's 'true purpose', it's his mission to be excellent at going through them, — and then it is his destiny, not a curse.
Only, purpose or not, at this point, Robinson is not excellent at fulfilling it: he's definitely ready to change his mind about all this travelling thing every time things get dangerous. I might be wrong, but I'm reading this as irony.
Bridget wrote: "I'm picking up too a theme of fate, that it is something we can't escape, try though we might."Providence is a key word in the narrative. Robinson first uses the word after the first storm, when he and his companions have forgotten (or not wanted to admit) their fears: "I had in five or six Days got as compleat a Victory over Conscience as any young Fellow that resolv'd not to be troubled with it, could desire. But I was to have another Trial for it still; and Providence, as in such Cases generally it does, resolv'd to leave me entirely without Excuse."
He has free will and accepts responsibility for his choices, but he also often refers to forces outside of his control. It seems to me that his conception of fate also seems to include a strong sense of justice rather than a blind or amoral force.
I will be commenting less and reading, thinking, listening more as I prefer to compare books with what I have read and the 17th and 18th centuries are but mere impressions of which I feel I know little. The book I would look to compare is The Pilgrim's Progress byJohn Bunyan but that precedes this book by forty years (plus I dearly need a reread). We can see how much difference there is between this and Tristram Shandy which also follows around forty years after Robinson Crusoe. Oddly enough, as I read I am reminded of another book I haven't read in in years, Of Plymouth Plantation: 1620-1647 by William Bradford from 1651 but I think it is a similarity in religious and life ethic that prompts that comparison.
So I haven't decided on exactly what I will focus on in this read but something will pop up soon I imagine.
I thought the Goldilocks philosophy of the middle being just right applied to a life path was interesting.
The concept of fate was also interesting since it has some Calvin predestination but is tempered with a more classic sense of fate that has a "Que sera sera" feel. I hope this gets revisited throughout the novel so we can better see how Defoe treats it.
Plateresca wrote: "that they are not ashamed to sin, and yet are ashamed to repent"This stood out to me too and seems so true. I'm sure we can all think of many examples of this!
Many of Robinson's decisions seem driven by pride and lack of humility. He doesn't want to face his father but asks his mother to intercede, he disobeys his father and goes to sea, and he (and the others) refuses to admit his fear at the storm.
I might be wrong, but I'm reading this as irony.
Robinson is looking back as an older man at the decisions he made as a young adult, so I agree that there is a touch of irony in the narrative. The spoilery subtitle of the novel tells us that he lived "Eight and Twenty Years" on the island, and he is eighteen at our point in the story, so the narrator is at least in his late forties.
Defoe himself was 59 years old at the time he wrote the book. He had raised several children, and that may have influenced the comments about parenting we noticed before. We know, though, that he never seems to have lost his own spirit of adventure since he was involved in a variety of political and religious intrigues and many of his economic difficulties were the result of moneymaking schemes.
Sam wrote: "I will be commenting less and reading, thinking, listening more as I prefer to compare books with what I have read and the 17th and 18th centuries are but mere impressions of which I feel I know li..."I like your approach, Sam! Even though commenting will not be your focus, I look forward to reading your observations about how those works interact with each other.
I love all the comments. They have added a lot to the read already. Robinson seems to have a bit of "luck of the Irish" in him. He lives through a bad storm, he gets off the ship just before it sinks. Despite his saying how his luck is bad, he's had some good breaks, too.
If one considers the religous connotations, this could, perhaps, be seen as God sending hard times, then a calm to let the person reflect on their inclinations, sins, decisions, etc. and give them time to find the "right path".
Like Sam, I'm keeping up and reading the comments but haven't got much to add to the discussion yet. There's a lot being set up here for either a downfall or a reversal, depending on choices or Fate. It's an interesting concept of whether we decide our futures or Fate does.
Erich wrote: Plateresca wrote: "that they are not ashamed to sin, and yet are ashamed to repent"This stood out to me too and seems so true. I'm sure we can all think of many examples of this!
Many of Robinson's decisions seem driven by pride and lack of humility. He doesn't want to face his father but asks his mother to intercede, he disobeys his father and goes to sea, and he (and the others) refuses to admit his fear at the storm.
That whole paragraph when he waffles about going home or not let's us know he is young and has much to learn before he grows into maturity. When your decision is based on pride & worry what people will think of you instead of is it the right thing to do does not bode well for the ability to make good decisions in the future!
As to going home, shame opposed the best motions that offered to my thoughts, and it immediately occurr'd to me how I should be laugh'd ay among the neighbors...
I felt RC is given many signs that the seafaring life maybe is not a good fit for him, between his illness, having to abandon ship, others telling him about hardships etc, as has been noted it certainly is ominous for his fate. Even the Captain tells him he would not set my foot in the same ship as thee again for a thousand pounds And then the most obvious foreshadowing ever when the Captain states And young man depend on it, if you do not go back , where ever you go, you will meet nothing but disasters and disappointments...
Despite all of the signs that Chris has mentioned that go against Robinson’s remaining a sailor, he, like most young people who want to be independent, is most likely thinking of his selfish desires rather than what he knows is the right path. There is an excitement of heading toward the unknown and just “going with the flow.” I personally don’t ascribe to this way of thinking but it seems our young adventurer is setting himself up for failure. Even the fact that he chose to be seen as a gentleman onboard rather than learn some skill, shows he is not thinking well about how best to go. It makes sense to me that having knowledge of sailing and being a sailor would have been a good idea before he took his first voyage.
Lori wrote: Despite all of the signs that Chris has mentioned that go against Robinson’s remaining a sailor, he, like most young people who want to be independent, is most likely thinking of his selfish desires rather than what he knows is the right path. There is an excitement of heading toward the unknown and just “going with the flow.” I personally don’t ascribe to this way of thinking but it seems our young adventurer is setting himself up for failure. Even the fact that he chose to be seen as a gentleman onboard rather than learn some skill, shows he is not thinking well about how best to go. It makes sense to me that having knowledge of sailing and being a sailor would have been a good idea before he took his first voyage. AGREE!!
Petra wrote: "If one considers the religous connotations, this could, perhaps, be seen as God sending hard times, then a calm to let the person reflect on their inclinations, sins, decisions, etc. and give them time to find the "right path."That definitely seems to be the pattern. We can also see some of the important Protestant elements in Robinson's character, such as the satisfaction he felt when he learned "some things that were needful to be understood by a Sailor."
Dickensians!
Books mentioned in this topic
Emile, or On Education (other topics)The Moonstone (other topics)
Gulliver’s Travels (other topics)
Concrete Island (other topics)
Robinson Crusoe (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Robert Louis Stevenson (other topics)J.G. Ballard (other topics)
J.M. Coetzee (other topics)
Jean-Jacques Rousseau (other topics)
J.M.G. Le Clézio (other topics)
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As our regulars will know, about every other year we have a read of a novel which was one of Charles Dickens's personal favourites, and which he read over and over again. These reads follow the same pattern of daily chapters, and are linked at the beginning of the thread as usual, so you can find the changeover easily. This group read begins on 25th June.
This time we are very excited to welcome Erich again, whose expertise in 18th century novels made our group read of the challenging The Life and Opinions of Tristram Shandy, Gentleman by Laurence Sterne such a treat. Robinson Crusoe was Charles Dickens's absolute favourite as a child, and we can see its influence in so many of his own works, later. Plus the experiences of a marooned sailor perfectly fits our theme this year, of "All Around Dickens".
I'm sure that such a favourite of The Inimitable will prove a popular read, and am really looking forward to Erich's lead again.
****Please allow Erich to comment first and give details! Thank you.