Sword and Sorcery: What counts? What does NOT?

[Eric]

So, when I started talking about my own book, Denithor the Librarian, I started referring to it first as High Fantasy, but then also as Sword and Sorcery after a while. Initially, I didn't, because when I think of Sword and Sorcery titles, I think of Conan, and the world I've built for Denithor isn't 'Barbarian' enough to be Conan adjacent. However, then I read this article that described a much broader definition of Sword and Sorcery -- they even went so far as to describe Harry Potter as belonging to the genre (I disagree, BTW). Anyway, the article did cause me to think a little more broadly about sword and sorcery, and since my main characters are both mages and warriors, I started using the S&S identifier.
My question is: How do you feel about the definition of the Sword and Sorcery genre? Should it be broader? Is Harry Potter S&S? Or is that madness, and even my book is too far from a barbarian tale to be in the genre? I'm curious.

[Auston]

Eric wrote: "So, when I started talking about my own book, Denithor the Librarian, I started referring to it first as High Fantasy, but then also as Sword and Sorcery after a while. Initially, ..."

This is just my personal belief, but I feel like it's the readers job to label a books specific genre. Of course, as authors, I feel like we're entitled to our own opinions about how we'd like our work to be categorized, but ultimately, our primary responsibility is to present the stories we've been given - to explore certain ideas in a way that are most tangible for others to digest.

As to your questions about what qualifies as S&S and what's to far outside the realm, this is where I feel like modern day fantasy has an identity crisis to deal with. With a market oversaturated with "Romanticy" novels, authors are desperately trying to find a way to stand out among the crowd. Or rather, they're trying to find a way to stand out among the algorithm. And as a new author myself, I can say that this is nearly impossible. Especially when you feel like your novel falls into none of these genres. I wrote a low-fantasy novel tailored toward young men, chocked full of contemporary moral values... How do you even market something like that in this day and age? Is it fantasy in the traditional sense? No. If anything it's more in line with literary fiction. Does it have elements of S&S in it? Yes, but again, not in traditional sense. The "magical" elements are more in line with spiritual experiences rather than anything that might resemble spells of sorcery. Heck, I don't even have elves or dwarves in this fantasy world.

I know I'm rambling, but I say all this to say that, unless an author went into writing a story with the clear intent of adhering to a very specific genre (like S&S), then I personally feel like it's next to impossible for that author to do so after the story's been written. In short, as of right now, the lines have been blurred so much, it's hard to tell what is what anymore.

I know this probably didn't answer any questions, but thanks for opening the discussion.

[Eric]

Auston wrote: "This is just my personal belief, but I feel like it's the readers job to label a books specific genre. Of course, as authors, I feel like we're entitled to our own opinions about how we'd like our work to be categorized"

It absolutely does answer the question! I'm glad someone else feels the same way about 'escaping the algorithm.' That's a big portion of why I describe my own book as a sub-genre. When I tell someone that I write fantasy, so many people immediately jump to thoughts of Romantasy. It's tough. Self-identifying genre is a good take; I like that. Maybe genre tagging has more to do with what audience we're seeking than it does with a strict definition of that genre? And, if I think Conan readers will enjoy my book, and I can make the argument that it belongs, then I've already answered the question?

[NekroRider]

Eric wrote: "So, when I started talking about my own book, Denithor the Librarian, I started referring to it first as High Fantasy, but then also as Sword and Sorcery after a while. Initially, ..."

Im not sure which article you read, but these there is an abundance of people who seem to think that s&s is simply fantasy that involves warriors and magic users. That is not it's definition, and there is a reason why s&s is especially distinct from epic fantasy. Harry Potter is epic fantasy and is essentially the anti-thesis of what s&s is.

There have been threads in this sub in the past that have sought to define it. But I think what most fans of the sub-genre can probably agree on is that s&s heroes are in some way morally grey/amoral or "tragic" heroes. They are typically adventurers, mercenaries, wanderers of some kind who fight for their own purposes rather than "the greater good." Also, s&s heroes don't tend to be magic users. There are some exceptions (Elric is the main one), but in general magic tends to be antagonistic in s&s.

Next, s&s tends to be episodic and focused on individual adventures or quests, they aren't epics like LotR or Harry Potter leading to a final main conflict or good vs evil fight. While an s&s hero might fight against a threat to the greater world, they usually find themselves fighting that threat for a personal reason. Also, the threat is usually resolved over the course of a story/novella/short book.

There are other factors, but those are the main ones imo. Once you start to make things too "broad" you lose the point of having a sub-genre to begin with. Obviously boundaries can blur, but it will never get broad enough to include fantasy that is essentially it's opposite.

One example that might help is the Witcher books. The Last Wish is very much sword & sorcery while the main saga books from Blood of Elves to Lady of the Lake are mostly epic fantasy.

[Jason]

sword and sorcery are personal and driven by the main characters motivations (whereas epic or high fantasy are usually much more focussed on a larger scale narrative). as nekrorider mentioned, the stories are shorter in length and episodic in nature. magic is scary and usually mysterious, whereas epic fantasy tends to devote time to defining its magic systems.