Sunrise on the Reaping (The Hunger Games #0.5)

[SarahKat, Buddy Reads]

This thread is to discuss Sunrise on the Reaping, a prequel in The Hunger Games series by Suzanne Collins.

Pages: 400 pages

Length: 1 month (April)

Participants: LinaVer, Emily, Alina, SarahKat, Susan, Jessica, Cordelia, Jill, Luisa

Everyone reads at their own pace during a Buddy Read. Because participants can be at different parts of the book at different times, it is extremely important to mark spoilers so that the book is not ruined for someone who is not as far along as others!!!

Mark spoilers by placing {spoiler} before the text and {/spoiler} after the text but use the < and > instead of the { and }.

Here are some questions to help get the conversation started! Feel free to look up discussion questions specific to this book or come up with your own. Just make sure any questions that contain spoilers are under spoiler tags.
Discussion questions are not required but may be a fun way to talk about the book and get to know each other!

Prior to starting:
What prompted you to join this buddy read?
Have you read this author before? What do you think of their other books?

Mid-read:
What character or ideas do you relate to the most and why?
Do you have any favorite quotes or scenes?

After reading:
What was enjoyable or not-so-enjoyable about this book?
Did this book change your perception about anything, either within the book (character development) or in real life?

[Susan, Games & Events]

It's been years since I read The Hunger Games, I may need to brush up on the other books before starting this one. Looking forward to reading it!

[SarahKat, Buddy Reads]

Amazingly, my library hold on this is already available so I'll get it tomorrow!

I haven't read the series in years either. I read Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes 1.5 years ago. And we've watched the movies more recently. I may not pick up on all the mentioned smaller characters but I remember the major plot lines.

[Alina]

Can´t wait! I pre-ordered this on my kindle and really need to start reading because Tiktok is definetely not a spoiler-free zone at the moment. I´m going to try and finish one more book it march so this can be my first april read.

Haven´t read the series since like 10 years ago but I read The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes when it came out and watched the movies recently.

[SarahKat, Buddy Reads]

Alina wrote: "Can´t wait! I pre-ordered this on my kindle and really need to start reading because Tiktok is definetely not a spoiler-free zone at the moment. I´m going to try and finish one more book it march s..."

That's why I wanted to read it as soon as possible too haha

[Susan, Games & Events]

Alina wrote: "Can´t wait! I pre-ordered this on my kindle and really need to start reading because Tiktok is definetely not a spoiler-free zone at the moment. I´m going to try and finish one more book it march s..."

I haven't read The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes, should I read it before reading this new book?

[SarahKat, Buddy Reads]

Here's a reddit post about that question Susan: https://www.reddit.com/r/Hungergames/...

It looks people say you'll get more out of it if you read Ballad first but you'll follow the plot fine without it. I didn't read through most of that thread because I don't want accidental spoilers.

[Susan, Games & Events]

SarahKat wrote: "Here's a reddit post about that question Susan: https://www.reddit.com/r/Hungergames/...

It looks people say you'll get more..."

Thanks! I will read The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes next to prepare for Sunrise on the Reaping!

[Janine]

I actually picked up my copy from the library yesterday so I may join in on this if it's ok. I did already start, but I'll wait till April to join in discussions and maybe pause/slow down a bit and focus on one of my other reads right now!

For me it has been years since I've read the Hunger Games trilogy but I re-read each of them many times back in the day. I also read The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes (and watched the film) when it came out so I felt somewhat prepared to jump straight into it :)

[Carrie]

I would like to join in for this one. It has been many years since I read the original trilogy (before the movies) but I did read The Ballad... just a couple of weeks ago. This is my most anticipated read for April.

[SarahKat, Buddy Reads]

Welcome Carrie!

[SarahKat, Buddy Reads]

Through Chapter 8... I had just made a few notes in my phone about this: (view spoiler)[Louella's death was shocking and very sad. I'm glad Haymitch is not being stubborn and he's going for the alliance with everyone. However, it makes it that much more sad because we know he'll be the only one who lives. Glad to see Nuts and Bolts again but horrible that Beetee's son is in the games to punish him. And Mags is here! (hide spoiler)]

Through Chapter 14: (view spoiler)[Halfway through the book and they haven't entered the games yet. I'm really liking this but like I said above it's discouraging because you know Haymitch doesn't succeed in the breaking the arena plot, or if he does it doesn't stop the games or anything.
I like that we see this side of him, very much like Katniss only maybe a little ballsier starting out than she was. I also like that Plutarch is already a rebel to the Capitol. I wonder who will play him in the movie (assuming they'll make one) considering the original actor died? (hide spoiler)]

[Luisa]

Hi guys!!
I'm really glad we have this group to talk about the book!!
I got mine last week, and tried no to read too fast. But here I am, finished the chapter 11 last night.

(view spoiler)[ Well, I felt bad for Haymitch being chosen the way he was. It was so unfair, but everything about the games is unfair. It's nice to have old characters from the Hunger Games series here, and since the 50th Hunger Games or even earlier, they were trying to end the games. Beetee has a special place in my heart, and even more so here because of the situation with his son.
(hide spoiler)]

[Alina]

Hii! I decided to not read another book in march and jumped right into this one.
However the weekend was kinda busy so I´ve only finished chapter 5 by now.

(view spoiler)[ I love how one can see the evolvement through the years when it comes to the opening ceremony - in Songbirds everything was messy and not planned quite well with a lot of errors. Now here we still have errors but I think one can see that the planning of the opening cereomy is better planned - even though there are still tributes dying before the hunger games actually start.

Did I get it right that Lenore Dove might be the child of Lucy Gray and President Snow?

I´m excited to see how Haymitches story evolves - as he said in the first few chapters that he isn´t a drinker himself - but knowing the trilogy he turns to one.
Also one of his friends is an Everdeen - could that be Katniss´s Dad?
(hide spoiler)]

Are the actors for the movie already out? I haven´t looked it up but I just wanted to share that I´m supporting Damian Hardung as Haymitch as a choice haha. I don´t even know if he auditioned but he´s a young german actor that I think could make it into Hollywood (if he wants that) - seen him in a few roles and I think he´s great.

[Janine]

I'm glad to see lots of you also couldn't resist jumping straight into the book. I've found it super engrossing.

Through Chapter 14:

(view spoiler)[Much more than a Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes this one has lots of names and references that I recognise, I guess because it's so much closer in time to the original series. Whether it's the surnames/relatives in 12 or seeing Wiress, Beetee, Plutarch etc. I really enjoy every time we see a new familiar name.

Luisa - I agree, devastating how Haymitch was chosen. I'm not sure if we knew that his reaping wasn't a normal one already, but if we had I'd forgotten.

SarahKat - I'm finding myself believing in the plan to stop the arena, and then catching myself and remembering we already know it fails. Trying to not let myself get attached to Ampert, Wyatt, Maysilee etc.
I was actually surprised that Plutarch was already rebel, but I like it! It's shocking to think it takes another 25 years for their plan to take down an arena to actually work. Plutarch undercover that whole time?!

Alina - I'm not sure if Lenore Dove is the child of Lucy Gray. We're 40 years on from Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes I think so I'm not sure if it's the right generation. But could well be related in some way. (hide spoiler)]

[SarahKat, Buddy Reads]

To the Lenore Dove question: (view spoiler)[I think she is a descendent of Lucy Gray but not a daughter. I think she alluded to a great grandmother that sounded like it was Lucy Gray. (hide spoiler)]

[Jill]

Thehungergames.fandom.com has a good timeline breaking down when everything happened. There are spoilers there for all five books there, so skip the section for any book you haven’t read yet. At some point I really want to start with The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes and read all five books in chronological order.

[Jill]

I hope that at some point Collins will make clear how Katniss is related to Lucy Gray. I was always disappointed that the films cut out Madge, as I think her friendship with Katniss makes some of the family connections clearer and highlights how each previous Hunger Game continues to impact the tributes’ relatives, so I’m especially eager to learn more about Maysilee and her sister.

[Jill]

Chapter 4: Did anyone notice the backstory about Katniss’s mockingjay pin?

[Emily]

Alina wrote: "Hii! I decided to not read another book in march and jumped right into this one.
However the weekend was kinda busy so I´ve only finished chapter 5 by now.

I love how one can see the evolvement ..."

Regarding Lenore Dove:
(view spoiler)[She's definitely not Lucy Gray and President Snow's daughter. There's 40 years between A Ballad of Songbirds & Snakes when they were together and Sunrise on the Reaping. If Lucy Gray was ~16-17 when she last saw Snow, there's no way she would have a daughter of reaping age 40 years later. They're definitely related somehow because it says Lenore Dove is a Baird, but I think grandmother or possibly aunt/great-aunt makes more sense with the timeline. (hide spoiler)]

[Alina]

Thanks for the Lenore Dove thing! You guys are right. I didn´t think the timeline through!

[Alina]

Jill wrote: "Chapter 4: Did anyone notice the backstory about Katniss’s mockingjay pin?"

yup! I quite enjoyed that

[LinaVer]

Hey everyone, it’s so nice to see such a lively discussion here already! I am starting it today but I also have an arc that I have to read, so I will be a bit slower than most of you probably. I’m so excited though! I’ve read all the books and watched all the movies and love everything equally, lol. But I’ve already seen some Goodreads’ friends’ reviews and a lot of them seem disappointed, I really hope I am not. Can’t wait to progress with it a bit and see all of your thoughts (I made a conscious effort not to look at spoilers haha).

[Susan, Games & Events]

I'm almost finsihed with The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes, can't believe I didn't read this one sooner. Plan on starting Sunrise on the Reaping by the weekend! Since we've had to return to the office my reading time has been drastically affected, it's so sad!

[Jill]

I come from District 12. That is, I grew up in the Appalachian coalfields. Both my grandfathers were miners, so there are things about these books that have always resonated with me. In her teens, my mom worked at the company store for awhile, then was fired when her father was elected president of the union local. I still have some old pieces of scrip my mom still had from those days.

So there is so much about the culture of District 12 that resonates for me. I really want to know if Collins has an Appalachian background or if she somehow picked this all up just from researching the area.

[SarahKat, Buddy Reads]

Jill wrote: "I come from District 12. That is, I grew up in the Appalachian coalfields. Both my grandfathers were miners, so there are things about these books that have always resonated with me. In her teens, ..."

I wonder this too! I am not from Appalachia but I work with coal miners in a different part of the country and while some of the culture here is similar, I tend to know or hear a lot about the Appalachian coal industry too just because we have so many partners and things there. So it's always interesting to me when Collins brings up things that are very coal-specific that people outside that world may not even know about.

[SarahKat, Buddy Reads]

Through chapter 17: (view spoiler)[A LOT has happened in just 3 chapters since my last update. Wyatt died in the first bloodbath. Lou Lou's death was sort of happy-sad. Like Haymitch said, her story didn't have a happy ending no matter what, but she died in a bed of flowers that reminded her of her home and made her so happy.
I figured the water and fruit was poison as soon as we saw how much of it there was. The Gamemakers wouldn't be that nice.

He's with Ampert now, but we know their plot fails to bring down the Capitol or the games. Argh!
I hope we see a bit of Haymitch's homecoming so we know what happens to him after and how he changes into the hopeless alcoholic we see later. Was it a sudden change upon returning home? Or a slow descent? Is Snow holding something over his head for the next 25 years we don't know about for him to even bother being involved with the tributes after him or does he do it because he didn't have anyone from his district to help him when he was reaped? Did he immediately get involved with the resistance or did he not until the events in the trilogy? (hide spoiler)]

[LinaVer]

Jill and Sarah, would you be able to share some of those specific cultural things in connection to Appalachian coalfields that might not be so recognisable for most of us? It's very interesting!

[LinaVer]

Like, what kind of details from this or the rest of HG books speak to that culture?

[Jill]

LinaVer wrote: "Like, what kind of details from this or the rest of HG books speak to that culture?"

LinaVer,
The first thing I’ll mention is Katniss’s father’s death. I grew up in a community that suffered a massive disaster 15 years ago. 29 miners were killed, including several guys my younger brother and I went to school with. I remember watching the movie version of the first book and nearly breaking into tears when they showed a quick flashback of the explosion. A tiny community like ours never recovers from that kind of loss and you see a lot of that attitude in District 12.

Another thing I’ll point out for now is how the other districts look down on 12. Think about it: what do you think of Appalachia, especially my beloved West Virginia? My aunt, moving out of state after World War II, was asked several times if she’d ever worn shoes before leaving her native state.

I love the culture of the Covey in the books because I’ve always adored traditional mountain ballads. I think The Hanging Tree especially has a similar structure to those kind of songs (though I also love the idea that classic poems such as The Raven have become ballads in this world).

I’ll probably post again on this topic as I think of more things.

SarahKat,
Always good to hear from someone who works with miners!

[Jennifer]

Hi all! I didn't officially sign up for this one but I am hoping I can get it before the end of the month. I'm 2 weeks out on Libby.

I'm reading this because I did really enjoy The Hunger Games series, and with this new one coming out, I made a point to go back and read Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes recently. So while some of the original three books is rusty in my mind, the world is fresher. I'm excited to read this new one.

[LinaVer]

Jill wrote: "LinaVer wrote: "Like, what kind of details from this or the rest of HG books speak to that culture?"

LinaVer,
The first thing I’ll mention is Katniss’s father’s death. I grew up in a community tha..."

Wow, thank you, Jill! I’m from Lithuania, and we didn’t learn that much about the States in school, so I have a rather narrow (and formed mostly by movies I saw while growing up) view of the culture and differences between different states. I know now that the view portrayed in media (of any given land) is rather skewed, so it is really interesting to read what you shared, thank you. And I am really sorry for all those losses. That kind of loss and grief is difficult to recover from. But it must also show to a great strength in people to be able to continue life. Thank you once again for sharing.

[Alina]

Jill wrote: "LinaVer wrote: "Like, what kind of details from this or the rest of HG books speak to that culture?"

LinaVer,
The first thing I’ll mention is Katniss’s father’s death. I grew up in a community tha..."


Thank you for your insights Jill! This is really interesting.
I have to agree with Lina, that my knowledge is rather narrow aswell as I am from germany.
When I hear Appalachia my first thought goes to the appalachian mountains and stories involving them. For West Virginia my thoughts go to the song. So I guess I do think of it as more of a rural area.

I´m sorry for your losses - I think I can understand that pain in some aspects. As I don´t want to compare these incidents I´ll put what I want to say in spoilers - so you and everyone else here can read that only if you want.
(view spoiler)[ We´ve had a terrorist attack on one of our christmas markets in my city last year where a lot of people died and got injured. Luckily I didn´t loose anyone directly but I did know a lot of people that were there at the time (I only left the market like 10 minutes prior to the incident as it was on my way home after work) and it´s been tough ever since then. I do live in a bigger city but we´re always referring to our city as the biggest village because even if you don´t know someone you definetely know someone that knows them.
As you might know christmas markets are pretty huge here in germany and it´s a big part of our culture during the festive season. I´ve never been someone who was afraid in larger crowds but since that happened I feel a little bit different. I´ve been to another market in another city after that but it was really weird and I don´t know if it will ever feel the same as before but then again maybe it doesn´t have to feel the same.
As I said I don´t want to compare these incidents but I think the pain one feels when tragedies of whatever kind happen just stick to everyone and it´s hard to carry on and "forget". (hide spoiler)]

Thanks again for sharing. It´s good to hear that Collins seems to make a good job at researching and that her descriptions of your home resonate within you.

[Alina]

Jennifer wrote: "Hi all! I didn't officially sign up for this one but I am hoping I can get it before the end of the month. I'm 2 weeks out on Libby.

I'm reading this because I did really enjoy The Hunger Games s..."

Hope your copy arrives soon! I am excited to hear what you´ll have to say about this book.

[Susan, Games & Events]

I started listening to Sunrise on the Reaping yesterday and finished it today. Good book, glad I got in on this .... will try and post more later.

[Jill]

Alina,
First of all, thanks so much for sharing your story. My heart goes out to you and everyone in your city.

As for more on the history of mining communities in WV and our culture, I’d highly recommend the movie Matewan (a few scenes were actually filmed in my hometown). The movie is incredibly factual; the story is based on an actual event; I’m even distantly related to Sid Hatfield, one of the main characters in the film. It does a great job of showing what life was like before the mines were unionized.

There are a number of books if you’re interested in Appalachia : I’d start with the brilliant novel Storming Heaven. Some good nonfiction sources are The United States of Appalachia: How Southern Mountaineers Brought Independence, Culture, and Enlightenment to America and What You Are Getting Wrong about Appalachia.

[Emily]

I finished today and absolutely loved it.

(view spoiler)[Honestly I think this book did more to put into context the events of the original trilogy than ABOSAS even did. As much as Lucy Gray influenced Snow's hatred of Katniss, I think Haymitch did even more. They're so similar and Katniss must've really awoken the rebel in Haymitch that Snow had successfully beaten down for 24 years.
I've seen some critiques that there were too many existing characters from the original trilogy that appeared and it seemed more forced and like fanservice than anything - I disagree with this. I do feel like Beetee and Plutarch straight up admitting to Haymitch that they were rebels and trying to bring down the Capitol and end the games almost immediately after meeting him felt very abrupt. Beetee I could kind of see more because he knew they wouldn't kill him but Plutarch I don't see how he survived so long when he was so bold like that.
I already loved Mags but now I love her even more. I already loved Haymitch and now I love him even more. I loved seeing more of Effie's backstory which we never got before. It seems to be like she probably volunteered to be the escort for District 12 because she got such a rush from helping them? It was nice to see her genuine compassion towards the tributes, even if she is misguided and brainwashed by growing up in the Capitol.
I would be interested in a collection of short stories or something about all of the tributes from the 75th games. I have a feeling they were all or almost all rebels and the reaping was rigged to kill them and try to stamp down the rebellion that Katniss was reigniting. (hide spoiler)]

[Alina]

I finished today and also loved it!

I agree with Emily on a lot!

here´s my review

[Janine]

I finished and I had a lot of fun reading this. For me, this was a lot more enjoyable than A Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes.

(view spoiler)[Emily, I agree. I did also hear people saying that it was fanservice too, but it didn't feel like that to me. I loved all the connections, and it made total sense to me that there were so many familiar names. The events of this book are naturally much closer to those of the original trilogy, in both years, location, and how the hunger games had evolved by that point. I particularly liked seeing Mags and Wiress (and Beetee) as Haymitch's mentors, knowing Katniss goes on to ally with them in the 75th, and how hard it must've been for Haymitch to watch. I liked seeing the seeds of the rebellion that eventually comes to fruition 25 years later. I understand for some people that took them out of the story, and there were a lot of references (even Effie which I wasn't expecting) so I won't be surprised if some our fellow readers don't gel with it, but for me it drew me in even more.

Honestly, this was just a lot of fun for me to read, alongside the emotional moments! I liked being back in the arena and seeing a version of the hunger games that's quite familiar. The trilogy was great for a reason, and this felt very reminiscent of it. (hide spoiler)]

[SarahKat, Buddy Reads]

I finished over the weekend! Too tired to write a whole long review (just got back from a road trip), but I loved it.

(view spoiler)[I did not think the name-dropping of previous characters was fanservice at all. I thought it made complete sense within the story and also explained why Haymitch was already close to Mags and knew some of the winners more than you might expect him to. I didn't realize he was working with the rebellion from this point on, for some reason I was thinking he just kind of got on board in Catching Fire when he helps get them out of the arena. But this makes sense!

Even though we knew the winner, I was tense the entire time not knowing how/when/why the others would die, plus a tiny little bit of hope that maybe someone could escape and make it to District 13? Nope.

Also the ending was heartbreaking but I saw it coming. No way Snow would let him live with any amount of friends or comfort after his rascal ways. (hide spoiler)]

[Luisa]

I'm almost finishing the book (chapter 24).
So far, I enjoyed much more the first part and second part than the third, when the games actually started.

When I finish it I'll write about it with more details. :)

[LinaVer]

I’m in chapter 6 only, but it’s already very gripping. I’m going to write my thoughts and reactions in this post as I go. It’s probably going to be full of spoilers, so I’ll just hide everything.

(view spoiler)[To start with, I was looking forward to reading it because I’ve loved all the other HG books, but also quite apprehensive because I’ve already seen a lot of negative reviews. But I think I should not have worried.

I’m just at approx 20% but I am immersed and enjoying every page (if that’s the right word, because like always it is heart-wrenching). I was crying into my breakfast yogurt this morning, reading the reaping scene, and that image of Lenore Dove screaming out her grief into the storm is now burned into my brain forever probably. I’m remembering what I love about Suzanne Collins’ writing the most, and it’s not only the fact that it’s good, smart, and layered. She writes humanness and feelings very well. I’m highlighting quotes basically on every single page. I wish I understood more of the philosophical background of her books a bit better, but I will read some articles about that after I finish the book. Might even read some philosophy inspired by this, who knows??!

I am also very glad to find all the small easter eggs she leaves in this book that explain other details from previous/following books and their timelines. Like the fact that Haymitch got the fire striker with the snake and bird, like the name of the book about Snow, and all that’s connected with it. I also enjoyed looking into the history of fire strikers online and found the shape very beautiful and also - interestingly - quite reminiscent of some Baltic and ethnic pagan tools and symbols from our spot of the world. Adders, grass snakes, were worshiped and symbolized fire here (which was also considered holy). Not that the cultures were identical, I just mean to say I find it fascinating how many echoes and connections can be found in older cultures of the world.

I also really like that we get a short mention of the backstory of Katniss’ golden pin belonging to Maysilee first and her not liking it, and it shows her probably spoiled character. All kinds of small details like that. I wonder where Haymitch’s story will go further.

Throughts after having just finished it:
Never mind what I said earlier about Maysilee's spoiled character. I really like what SC did with her character growth/reveal over time. I cried the most for her and Amper during the games. And Haymitch of course.

Although I understand the reasons behind and kind of enjoyed seeing Haymitch's simply friendship with Effie, I kind of wish they fell in love in the end. And not for the reasons of just simply rooting for them because of previous books/films, like most of the fandom did, but because I think everyone deserves a second chance in love, and I just wish he was given just that little bit more hope at the end of his life, because of how much of it has simply been ruined. It's beautiful and majestic the way he "mated for life" with his childhood love, but man have I had enough of tragic character in Katniss. My heart simply cannot take it, this ruination of lives. I hate Snow with all my might for it, as if he was a real person and not simply an (brilliantly written) evil character. Just thinking of what it means to place the weight of not only a fervent fight for survival, but also of igniting a revolution on the shoulders of a sixteen year old... and SC did it twice. That's why to me both Haymitch and Katniss are such tragic characters.

I just finished the book late last night, had a whole night full of dreams about Haymitch, so everything's still a bit jumbled in my brain, but gosh I loved this book, and also probably I also missed a lot of layers of what it has to offer because of how gripping it was and how fast I wanted to turn the pages (also all the while never wanting it to end). Funny, how SC made these books to be both such an immense entertainment but also such a chilling (at least to me) experience, just like the Hunger Games themselves.

Also, how are these books YA, with such violence in them?

I will read through all of your thoughts now that I can open the spoiler warnings, and come back with my final comment. (hide spoiler)]

[Luisa]

Hi all!
I finished two nights ago and cried like a baby. I think the last book that made me cry like this was Allegiant, long time ago.

(view spoiler)[
I knew how it would end, like we all knew that Haymitch won the games and so on. But, a big but here, it was a good surprise to see a lot of known characters there and how Haymitch got to know many of them and develop a caring relationship with them. This book destroyed me emotionally because, for me Haymitch suffered much more than Katniss. Snow took everything and everyone that Haymitch cared about and loved. For me Snow is in his prime of cruelty and evilness in this book.

The first thing that kept me thinking was, I don't recall which chapter it was, but it was early in the story that Haymitch mentions that sometimes a peacekeeper gets some girl from District 12 pregnant and then moves to another district, leaving the girl behind. Was it a hint that maybe, just maybe, there is a possibility that Lucy Gray was pregnant in the end of the The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes? Like, was it possible that Snow has or had a child in District 12 that not even he knows about? Or am I just tripping?

Going further into the book, it seems to me that the rebellion was being planned for a long time before Katniss. And Haymitch should have been the person to ignite it, destroying the arena, stopping the games, and so on, but he was completely destroyed and contained after the games. Like Snow says in the hunger games to Seneca that "katniss should be contained". Here he was able to "contain" the fire and desire of revenge from Haymitch.

And for Plutarch, I found myself wondering how he could live so many years in the Capitol and be so under the radar with his ideas and plans for a rebellion. How long did he know that District 13 was alive? Where did this desire for a rebellion come from, considering his family was really wealthy and full of privileges, living the best that society could offer? I wish I could know more about his backstory.

About other characters, Beetee's story made me sob. Like, OMG, what cruelty it was to make him watch his son's death in the arena. And I loved to see the backstory of Wiress and Mags. And again, the cruelty against those two after Haymitch won the games...

I know there are a lot of people now wanting another book about Finnick's games, but I'm not sure if I want it. Like, it would be great to know, but I don't know if I want to be destroyed emotionally again, knowing a bit of what happened to Finnick after his games (being used by the Capitol and so on)...


(hide spoiler)]

[LinaVer]

Hi everyone again. These are my final jumbled thoughts after having read the book and your comments (now that I can read through them without spoiling it for myself). I loved the book and have a lot of feelings and thoughts, and once again, I will just put everything under spoiler down bellow.

I have some doubts and questions, and because I will probably write a lot 😅 I will mark the questions by making them bold, if someone has any thoughts about them. 😊 I loved this book, and I am so glad we read it as a buddy read and have had the chance to discuss it like this! Thank you everyone!

(view spoiler)[
Like most of you, I also loved that Wiress and Beetee and Mags were there in this book. Mags motherly warmth and compassion was so beautifully written and spoke loads not only about her character but also helped reveal other character's feelings. That moment when Haymitch went into her embrace and allowed himself to grieve the loss of Louella for a moment, was heart wrenchingly beautiful. I'm going to be like a broken record probably by repeating how often I cried while reading this book but when we were shown what Snow has done to break Mags and Wiress after Haymitch's games, oh my god... I feel like I could cry again just writing this.

And Beetee's story. I cannot fathom what it means to see your son go into the games knowing it's a fast track to slaughter. "A cannon fires. Somewhere, Beetee’s heart breaks into fragments so small it can never be repaired." Man oh man. And him then working on the revolution, despite all odds, for decades on end. What an immense power and strength of the soul. 😭

SarahKat, you wrote in your comment: "it's discouraging because you know Haymitch doesn't succeed in the breaking the arena plot, or if he does it doesn't stop the games or anything."
I feel you! But also I think that this is how SC manages to write about the unfortunate power of propaganda so well. I think that whatever we (or Katniss and others in Haymitch's future for that matter) thought we knew about the evil of the hunger games from the previous books, we get to see so much more of the depths of the pure rot of them in this book. I was thinking about that moment when Katniss and Peeta were watching the videos of Haymitch's games (back in the future). And how much of a lie that was - all of the montage, the "card stacking" they did to hide the truth of all that happened in this arena (that we now know of).

Having finished the book, do you think Haymitch succeeded in breaking the arena?

I do, somewhat. I think the fact that a 16 yo managed to do significant damage and disturbance to the games, irked Snow the wrong way. And while tragic, to me that's success in itself. It was a mighty beginning to a revolution, no matter how many years it took for this spark to ignite.

About the Lucy and Lenore connection - I felt so confused about it! I'm so glad there is a discussion here about that. :)

How do you all think is Katniss connected to both Lenore and Lucy?
I've seen somewhere that Lucy and Katniss are cousins, but I do not really understand this theory. And wouldn't that make Lucy such an old cousin to be?

I also loved that moment when Burdock (I do think he is Katniss' father) kicked who I think is Peeta's father on the back of his knees during the reaping, so that he would kneel, saving him thus from the peacekeepers.

The end of the book, Haymitch's homecoming and his descent into depression and alcoholism was so chilling and heartbreaking. I am so glad we got this book about his backstory because I always felt there must have been so much more (especially/ unfortunately, so much more pain and loss) to him behind the "rascal drunk" that we got to see in the original books. Also, having had a stepfather who was addicted to alcohol (and died of liver failure), and seeing the deterioration of his personality, hopes and dreams, and really just a tragic waste of life, it hit home quite personally for me.

Emily - about the 75th games - I've seen somewhere on the internet a speculation that those games originally might have been designed to reap 12-year-olds, to make the districts know that not even their youngest are safe. The theory is based on the arena being made to function as a clock with 12 slots, but also because the threats in that arena were all sort of made to be run from, rather than fight against, and kids that young would not have much fighting experience (except for the vicious mutt monkeys ofc which they had to fight back). People think that Snow made that change to instead reap victors at the last moment because of the starting revolution. I do not know if I agree to it, but it is definitely an interesting theory.

Another question for all of you. I found the often mention of Plutarch's staircase (with an eagle at the top?) confusing. Is there any significance to that, other than it being his family crest? Does it somehow allude to the USA? I really didn't understand why we got that reference in this book quite that often. (hide spoiler)]

[SarahKat, Buddy Reads]

Going to try to respond to all your comments I have thoughts on!

Luisa, (view spoiler)[Haymitch suffered much more than Katniss. Snow took everything and everyone that Haymitch cared about and loved.
I think Snow would have taken everything from Katniss given the chance. That's why he quelled from the victors in book 2, knowing she'd have to relive the whole thing again with either Peeta or Haymitch. IF she survived, I'm sure he would have done to Prim and her mother what he did to Haymitch's family. But his plans got all messed up because the revolution took off.

was it possible that Snow has or had a child in District 12 that not even he knows about?
Possibly? I don't know if we'll ever find out for sure.

And for Plutarch, I found myself wondering how he could live so many years in the Capitol and be so under the radar with his ideas and plans for a rebellion. How long did he know that District 13 was alive?
I wonder this too. Especially with how "free" he was with his rebellious ways to Haymitch. And I want to know when District 13 came (back) into the picture.

I know there are a lot of people now wanting another book about Finnick's games, but I'm not sure if I want it.
I would absolutely read a book about every single victor's games. Finnick, Beetee, Mags, Wiress. Now that I know what Collins can do with a prequel (Ballad was not as strong), I'd read all of them! (hide spoiler)]

LinaVer, (view spoiler)[we get to see so much more of the depths of the pure rot of them in this book.
I agree. While we knew the Capitol and Snow were corrupt and evil from the beginning, this felt... more. More in-your-face and conniving. Like killing Hay's family and Lenore. He didn't bring Haymitch forward to punish him publicly. What he did was so much worse.

Having finished the book, do you think Haymitch succeeded in breaking the arena?
Yes and no. Firstly, it sounds like some form of rebellion had been happening for a while (Beetee tried to break his games too), so one might think of this as another failed attempt. But, the fact that he did some damage probably kept those privy to the rebellion going with some hope that one day one of their plans would come to full fruition. Like they said at the end, they just needed someone luckier and with the right timing, and preferably an army.

How do you all think is Katniss connected to both Lenore and Lucy?
I don't know. I didn't really get any huge sense that she was, but I also don't remember the original trilogy well enough to recall any hints.

Haymitch's homecoming and his descent into depression and alcoholism was so chilling and heartbreaking.
I agree. Before this book you kind of got the sense that he isolated himself and became an alcoholic because of his survivor's guilt or trauma from the games, but really Snow forced isolation because he killed everyone who got close to Haymitch. It makes it all the more horrible because he didn't WANT to be alone.

People think that Snow made that change to instead reap victors at the last moment because of the starting revolution. I do not know if I agree to it, but it is definitely an interesting theory.
I think it was to punish Katniss more than anything. The revolution had been building for a while and his approach to punish individuals quietly and brutally. I think he thought Katniss was one of the few "problems" to deal with, not most of the victors.

I found the often mention of Plutarch's staircase (with an eagle at the top?) confusing. Is there any significance to that, other than it being his family crest? Does it somehow allude to the USA?
Plutarch was a Greek philosopher and apparently the eagle symbolism has to do with that actual person.
AI Overview: Plutarch, the ancient Greek biographer and philosopher, is associated with the eagle in multiple contexts, primarily within his "Parallel Lives" and other biographical works. He often uses the eagle as a symbol of leadership, strength, and divine influence, often relating it to the heroic figures he describes. For example, Plutarch's "Life of Pyrrhus" mentions Pyrrhus being called "Eagle" by the Epeirots, highlighting the king's perceived soaring qualities. Additionally, eagle imagery appears in stories about Amphiaraüs and Marius, with eagles carrying the spear of Amphiaraüs and Marius catching an eagle's nest with young ones. (hide spoiler)]

[LinaVer]

SarahKat wrote: "Going to try to respond to all your comments I have thoughts on!"

Thank you for answering, Sarah, you’ve shared some interesting points!
It has flown entirely above my head that Plutarch is a philosopher’s name. And that makes so much more sense now! Now that I think about how the previous game maker, Seneca, died, his death is also a direct link to the Roman philosopher Seneca. Here is an excerpt from some website I’ve googled just now: (view spoiler)[” The Roman philosopher Seneca was accused of taking part in a conspiracy against Nero, and was ordered to commit suicide. Seneca accepted the sentence and his wife chose to die with him. The husband and wife open their veins, but death does not follow swiftly.” (hide spoiler)] I am going to spend some time today reading a bit about the main ideas of Plutarch, the philosopher, as I am now interested in how much of them are reflected in the book, as obviously, the name choices are not accidents.

[Alina]

LinaVer wrote: "Hi everyone again. These are my final jumbled thoughts after having read the book and your comments (now that I can read through them without spoiling it for myself). I loved the book and have a lo..."

(view spoiler)[
I think Haymitch definetely succeded in at least breaking a part of the arena. I guess if he didn´t try or didn´t succeed in that part maybe Snow wouldn´t have gone so hard on him after the games were over.

I also don´t get the connection between Lucy/Lenore and Katniss. I think a lot of that theory comes from the fact that Katniss knows a lot of the Covey songs and people think that because of that song-knowledge she must have some Covey-Connection. But just like SarahKat I don´t remember enough of the original trilogy to comment further on that.

Thanks to SarahKat for that explantion on Plutarch and the eagle. While reading I actually thought of the great seal of america with the bold eagle that sometimes is behind politicians when they give a speech.
I remember that not that long ago there was a speech from trump where the eagle was facing the wrong the way. Normaly it faces in the direction of the branch of peace but during this speech it faced in the direction of the arrows of war so people were obviously confused if that was just a mistake or an actual message. (hide spoiler)]

[Jessica]

Hi all late to the party life is hectic lol. I read this book back on April 7-8 and absolutely loved it. I had been in a reading slump for a hot minute and this was exactly the book I needed to get out of it.

I have such a love for this series at it was a pivotal series of me enjoying reading back in middle school after years of being broken by the silly letter reading and reading quizzes they made us do in school.

I think the book was beautifully written and filled in so many of the gaps we had. I appreciated the link between the original 3 and this book. Haymich has always been one of my favorite characters in the series. His grounding in reality for lack of better words made me gravitate towards him. And this book was no different I loved reading his story so much.

[Emily]

LinaVer wrote: "How do you all think is Katniss connected to both Lenore and Lucy?"

There definitely is some kind of connection between the two of them but I think it's much more distant than a lot of fans want it to be. I've seen a lot of theories on TikTok but I don't really agree with any of them and I also don't really think it matters.
(view spoiler)[Lenore Dove is said to be a Baird, and Lucy Gray is as well so we know they're definitely related in some capacity. Burdock, who is Katniss's father, is also said to be kind of distant cousins with Lenore Dove, which would make him and Katniss somehow related to Lucy Gray as well. I don't think any of them are closely related enough for there to even be a word in the English language for it to be honest.
I also don't think it matters though. It seems like the Covey views family more in terms of cultural connections and a chosen family supporting each other and taking care of each other than actual blood relationships. The Covey live on through Katniss knowing their songs, having the mockingjay pin that we know was made by Tam Amber, etc. and I think that is the connection between Katniss and Lucy Gray that Suzanne Collins was trying to illustrate. She carries on a piece of Covey culture even though Snow and the Capitol tried so hard to force the Covey to assimilate into District 12 and to erase the memory of them and specifically Lucy Gray. I think that connection is what's important, not the specifics of who gave birth to who and how are they all related. I think if we were supposed to know those specifics, they would be made more clear. (hide spoiler)]

[Cordelia]

Finished. It was really good. I really enjoyed it. Its been ages since I read the rest - thought I might do a reread of the whole series.