Virago Modern Classics discussion
Various - about the VMC books
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The themes in VMC
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This month's In Diamond Square has started a side discussion on whether we could group together some reads in themes. Ideas suggested have included translated fiction, genre and periods of time.I am in a Reading Women group and there we have a half yearly voted on author focus. (The author needs to have written a number of books.) It works on top of the normal monthly voted for reads. Group members may read one or more of the books and contribute to the thread as and when. Some will have no interest, which is fine as there are still the monthly reads. Members will also share links to articles about the author etc.
So we could pick a theme without disturbing the normal flow of the group. A theme could align with a wider reading event such as Victober or be more general. I am going to throw out a suggestion of a (Northern hemisphere) summer theme challenge three months from June to September. I have suggested the summer as that should give us plenty of time to acquire books/check what our libraries have etc.
If Mela agrees we could consider themes and vote on one. If someone suggests a theme they would include in their nomination books that would fit that theme. Members could join in with the books they have/are interested in acquiring that fit the theme. Yes we may end up all reading different books, but we will be exposed to what others are reading. There will obviously be some members that will have no interest in the theme and that is fine.
Mod
Virago has listed the books on their site under various categories they have chosen - Translated - Queer - Wicked Women.
Could you please give me a direct link? I have found such groups only for all Virago books, but this group is only about Virago Modern Classics.
I think it is worth mentioning also, that one of the biggest problems of members is availability of the books. We don't have access to all titles, so we nominate those we can read. To approach this issue from a different side, I initiated a yearly planned buddy-read. So one can suggest books in greater advance - you just need one member that will agree to join you.
Mod
If someone has other suggestions on how to organize it - please write.
I will give an example of a theme I joined in with last year over on instagram - Spinster September. Hosted by Nora from @pearjelly people joined in with books with spinsters. There was a group read, but most just joined in with the books they already had. From my Virago books I read The Misses Mallett and The Gentlewomen It was a fun month, and I came away with a list of suggestions for books to add to my TBR. There are lots of books with spinsters in.Themes that could fit a number of Virago books
Coming of age
Travel/Adventure/holidays
Religion
Geographical - regions or countries
Race
Time periods - war, between the wars, Victorian, swinging 60s
Urban or Rural
If anyone is interested in any of these I would be happy to expand with some titles.
Mela wrote: "Laura, you have written:Virago has listed the books on their site under various categories they have chosen - Translated - Queer - Wicked Women.
Could you please give me a direct link? I have fo..."
I think the buddy read has worked well, and enabled us to read the books we already have with friends. Thanks for setting that up Mela.
Yes - I like the Spinsters theme a lot - makes me think of Janet McNeil, Elizabeth Jolley and one I've not read - yet but on the Tbr - Glitter of Mica by Jessie Kesson.Yes - Travel/Adventure
Victorian
Coming of age
Urban versus rural
Yes fantastic - great ideas.
And I think there are quite a selection of Canadian writers.
Is there a detective fiction - selection on the Virago list?
How to organise - we could supply a list for people to nominate from - explaining that it needs to fit the theme for the month - and then the runner ups in Buddy Reads?
Only a suggestion. Books have been nominated for March and April so probably the first theme month could be May - but we could start a themed read in the Buddy section - for March or April?
Could that work?
Ah the Virago site - I just put Virago into Google and selected the top option. But yes - I can practise my links operation - I'm not very good. I can do images now!!
Yes Mela - I also need quite a bit of lead time to source the books - so yes - more advanced planning is good.And yes I hadn't realised the distinction between VMC and all Virago books.
Yes - I like the idea of a Summer read - planned in advance - over 3 months - sounds good.
I'm not so keen on Northern versus Southern hemisphere theme - it seems very broad - but we could narrow it by picking a certain year or decade?
One more idea - there's a publishing house called The Women's Press - clearly with a similar focus to Virago. I was just wondering if it would expand the field from which to choose? Do they have a more modern readership. Did they compete with Virago or were they a sideline or indeed under the same operation as Virago? Publishing houses often appear to be separate units but actually a lot come under the same corporate/finance office?
Laura wrote: "Yes Mela - I also need quite a bit of lead time to source the books - so yes - more advanced planning is good.And yes I hadn't realised the distinction between VMC and all Virago books.
Yes - I ..."
When I mentioned northern hemisphere it was in relation to summer. If we have members in Australia and New Zealand June, July and August will be their winter.
I would probably not pick spinsters as one of our themes as Nora does a brilliant job with it, and will be continuing with it this year. But if we wanted to have a spinster buddy read in September that could work.
Mod
From Sonia's and Laura's lists of themes I will vote for
Coming of age
For all other members: please vote or choose (it can be not mentioned yet) a theme (keep in mind, that you have to think of at least one VMC book with such a topic).
At some point (the end of the month? Sonia, Laura - what do you think?) we will sum up and see which theme won. And then, we will do another part: choosing books.
I love Coming of Age stories . I really enjoyed our buddy read of The Doves of Venus in January, a fab start to the year. I also read Saraband and The Skin Chairs in January both coming of age stories.
I will look at my shelves and broader on the Virago list and see what I can up with.
Laura wrote: "One more idea - there's a publishing house called The Women's Press - clearly with a similar focus to Virago. I was just wondering if it would expand the field from which to choose? Do they have a ..."Personally I like this group just being focused on Virago. There are Goodreads groups for Persephone, Reading Women, and more generally Reading the 20th Century.
Mod
I agree (I belong to also the Persephone group).
Yes - I also belong to the Persephone group. Which is why I didn't reference them - as a publishing house.And I am making these suggestions as a way to try and increase participation.
Hi - yes I agree to keep the theme in buddy reads. And I like Mela's proposal that we actually nominate themes and then we nominate books which would fall into that theme. It seems like an excellent method.
I'm not so massively keen on the 'Coming of Age' theme because I've just read the Clara Batchelor books - in Antonia White's series - but I'm flexible and more than happy to see what other people suggest in terms of books for this theme.
I'm trying to get my head around the hemispheres theme - going back to read that :)
I think one of the simplest ways to introduce THEME - is via countries. You've already done Ireland - and I think Canada could be a theme option and then also Australia. If these work as THEMES, then we could get a bit more advanced and suggest themes like - Coming of Age. Again only a suggestion - I'm just happy to participate and I'm very pleased to have found like-minded and open minded readers - with similar interests.
Laura wrote: "I think one of the simplest ways to introduce THEME - is via countries. You've already done Ireland - and I think Canada could be a theme option and then also Australia. If these work as THEMES, th..."If you would like a country as your nomination pick one. I will probably support Mela's interest in coming of age, as I know I have three books on my shelves that fit that theme. Someone else mentioned swinging 60s, so if they continue with that suggestion we would have three good themes to pick from.
Personally I would like us to pick one theme and then see how it goes. I am with Mela on not overwhelming the group. I like that this group is not hugely busy, Mela has reestablished a very friendly group.
Yes - I also think the reason I like this group - is that it is quite small - but I think only one person actively reading Precious Bane - suggests a problem.Cphe suggested the "swinging 60s" - and I think I would like to support that nomination. An perfect choice for that theme could be - Music Upstairs by Shena Mackay - I've read this, but I would like to expand my reading of Mackay - an underappreciated author I think.
The third theme could be - books in Translation - only 15 of them. Or a Country theme - continue with Ireland as a theme or introduce a new country - Canada?
A Fine of Two Hundred Francs - Elsa Triolet - this is an author I particularly want to read. She was born into a Russian family who emigrated to France - she writes in French - so this would be a Translated Fiction theme. But it could also come under a broader theme - pre 2nd World War. She was also the first woman to be awarded the Prix Goncourt in 1944 - that could also be a theme 'Virago books that have won awards' - Booker, Pulizter, Nobel - and it could be away to attract more interest. Virago's share of the Booker winner or Booker nominated authors?
Laura wrote: "I think one of the simplest ways to introduce THEME - is via countries. You've already done Ireland - and I think Canada could be a theme option and then also Australia. If these work as THEMES, th..."We've already decided to read Lantana Lane in the next few months.
I like the way this small group functions as it is. There are plenty of VMC to choose from.
I just threw the swinging 60's out there when others were wondering about themes. Heavens only knows, I have more than enough VMC TBR in my ever increasing TBR mountain to keep me occupied for many years to come.
I read Precious Bane earlier in the year when it was mentioned in this group.
I'll add that August is Women in Translation Month. Every year I read at least one translated book that month.I've also enjoyed Spinster September.
After going down the rabbit hole of themes this morning, I am thinking we should have a poll over the coming weeks as to whether we are interested in following through with it. Reading the above posts re WIT and Spinster September has reminded me that I already read my VMCs for themes - but external ones. So next month we are doing a buddy read of The Land of Spices (which ties in with the Irish Readathon). I read translated fiction for WIT, books with spinsters for Spinster September, short books for Shorty September and Victorian for Victober.
There are so many external readathons maybe we don't need themes. What we could be better at doing is chatting about what we have bought and read, and sharing what we have loved or disliked.
I don't really connect themes with Readathons - I really dislike Readathons - books are not meant to be some sort of long distant run.The idea of themes was to look at connections between books...
Writers don't produce any book in isolation - they are always either looking at books they have read or looking forwards ...
But ok - thanks - I see no interest here.
Mod
I think, there is interest in the theme-read. The problem can be the availability of books.
Sonia wrote: "I am thinking we should have a poll over the coming weeks as to whether we are interested in following through with it.
Perhaps you're right. What do others think? Should we do a simple poll: Would you like to participate in the theme-read?
In my opinion, there is no need for such a poll. We should choose here a theme, then a few books - and simply put them in "empty slots" to buddy-reads. We will see if more people will participate. If they do - we can rename buddy-read into theme-read.
Oh no - I don't want to change the Buddy read. I was just trying to introduce this sense of the connections between books. I mean writers also have their favourite books and some admit to being inspired or influenced strongly by other writers.Tessa Hadley for example admires Margaret Drabbles work - but also uses the style of Angela Carter. Books are always written against other books - sometimes the connections are obvious - other times not so. I think to read each book in isolation - without understanding the literary background is quite a disorienting experience. Writers are always up to date on other writers and their work - and ideas and themes evolve over time - there are also cultural connections.
Reading a book as part of an theme - historical, cultural, literary or otherwise gives context to each book. Books have genealogies - just like people.
Mod
Seriously, Laura, you should consider establishing a group. I agree that such a reading would be interesting.
I know, at least at the beginning, there were not many members, but perhaps with time, people will appear.
Many Virago books do have a theme of focusing on women's domestic lives - housekeeping, childbirth, extended family, birth and death - or coming of age stories, which might involve school, religion, and other topics. I don't remember many dealing with politics, war, or careers, since most women were at a remove from those realms.
Yes Robin - that's exactly so and these themes of childbirth, housekeeping, extended family etc - were often considered unsuitable literary choices. Women's writing was relegated as "the domestic sphere". I think it's one of the reasons Carmen Callil was such a daring editor - she insisted that novels in this category were worth keeping in print. I can't help but think of Elizabeth Taylor's novel - Angel - I think Taylor was satirising the fact that women's writing was not considered intellectual or worthy. Celia Fremlin - the same - it's so very domestic - and yet she has murder and betrayals in the middle of all things domestic. A real sort of - 'we will not be like limited by male concepts of literature'.Olivia Manning deliberately avoids the domestic in her Balkan trilogy - and yet the central theme is the rocky marriage between Guy and Harriet Pringle.
I wonder if the reading public think Virago books are old-fashioned and boring? I certainly don't think that?
I agree it can seem like that Robin, but the original list included quite a few titles that dealt with the domestic in the context of war/politics etc - a selection of ones I've read and/or own:The Return of the Soldier Rebecca West - aftermath of WW1
A Model Childhood (VMC) by Christa Wolf - growing up in Germany during WW2
The Little Company Eleanor Dark - Australia being drawn into WW2
The Gentlewomen Laura Talbot - upheavals during WW2
On the Side of the Angels Betty West - life during WW2
A Stricken Field Martha Gellhorn - WW2, the Gestapo and Prague
Lantana Lane Eleanor Dark - the impact of economic and cultural shifts on a community in Australia
The Birds Fall Down Rebecca West - the Russian Revolution
The Overlanders Dora Birtles - outbreak of WW2 in Australia
She Knew She Was Right Ivy Litvinov - short stories that include depictions of life in the Soviet Union and political repression
Bobbin Up Dorothy Hewett - factory workers and political strife in 1950s Australia
At the Still Point Mary Benson - Apartheid-era South Africa
The Wild Geese Bridget Boland - Irish history and events during the 18th century
Sunlight on a Broken Column Attia Hosain - centred on Partition in India
Not So Quiet Helen Zenna Smith - ambulance driving WW1
We that were young Irene Rathbone - nursing WW1
Clash Ellen Wilkinson - trade unions and the 1920s General Strike by the woman who later became Labour MP for Jarrow during the hunger marches.
Mrs Miniver Jan Struthers - life in Britain on the cusp of WW2
The Rock Cried Out Ellen Douglas - America, racism and the Civil Rights movement
Christopher and Columbus Elizabeth von Arnim - prejudice towards people with German heritage during WW1
Blow Your House Down (Virago Modern Classics) By: Barker, Pat June, 1990 Pat Barker - sex workers in Britain
You Can't Get Lost in Cape Town Zoe Wicomb - Apartheid in South Africa
Love of Worker Bees/A Great Love Alexandra Kollontai - Soviet Union in the 1920s and women workers
The Dark Tide Vera Brittain - the aftermath of WW1
Wow, I probably avoided a lot of those because of the themes!
Robin P wrote: "Wow, I probably avoided a lot of those because of the themes!"And I probably read them for exactly the same reasons! Virago remember, unlike some other women-focused publishers set up around the same time, was founded by women who were broadly socialist feminist rather than radical feminist, so their list reflected that stance - at least before the issues that led to its sale to a larger publisher. It's one of the reasons I started my collection.
Alwynne wrote: "I agree it can seem like that Robin, but the original list included quite a few titles that dealt with the domestic in the context of war/politics etc - a selection of ones I've read and/or own:[..."
What a brilliant list, my type of book, thank you for posting. Have read about a third, and will look out for the others
Mod
Like Sonia wrote, what a great list Alwynne. Thank you.
No thank you both! So pleased it's useful, some great titles. I particularly liked Jan Struthers, the Christa Wolf and Helen Zenna Smith's novel. The Ellen Wilkinson is a bit clunky but some fascinating scenes, the interior decoration of houses in Bloomsbury etc
Many thanks for showing this list.I've read a number of the books you've listed over the years.
Admit I've been on eBay this morning buying more though.
I didn't think about eBay. I often find this at Thriftbooks.com. - or just random secondhand stores, but not as often as I used to.
@ Robin,I lean more and more towards eBay (for VMC) as I can often get free postage to Australia from England..... and the books are usually as described, often better in fact.
It costs an arm and a leg from the U.S so I don't buy from there any more.
Mod
@ Mela,Yes worldofbooks UK (eBay) is where the bulk of VMC come from - they give free postage to Aus.
However the same book coming from the USA can charge in excess of $50.
Now with tariffs coming in all over the place with the US I won't buy from the US again. Not through Amazon or anywhere else won't be able to afford to,
I think it's interesting to consider when Virago acquired the publishing rights for the books it has. Maybe when they started with Antonia White's novel - Frost in May 1978 - the directive was to look specifically for Women's fiction - out of print. (1978 was the start of Modern Classics).I understood, however, that one of the main directives was to reclassify - "classic" - to disregard or expand the traditional male definition. As I noted in the comment above for example to incorporate "domestic" into their definition of classic.
Celia Fremlin's The Hours Before Dawn 1958
- is classed as Domestic Noir - which makes me laugh - because it's not Hitchcock - but instead a female defined version.
No doubt the agenda has varied over the last 51 years. (Original set up - 1973). A socialist trend - would have been a reaction to the Thatcher 80s.
Certainly the more recent emphasis is on translated fiction, and Queer fiction.
But Virago have also Victorian writers - Emily Eden The Semi-Attached Couple and the Semi-Detached House 1860.
Mary Elizabeth Braddon Lady Audley's Secret 1862. So, quite a range.
Does anyone else have a potted history of
VMC's publishing decisions and directions?
https://www.theguardian.com/books/200...The link above takes you to a great article by Rachel Cooke 2008 Guardian review. And gives a fascinating account of Carmen Callil's inspiration and efforts to set up Virago.
A quote from it: Hilary Mantel "I was living abroad when the list began. When I came back briefly in the 1980s the green spines were everywhere - Probably young women won't realise what it was like before. The star names among women - Murdock, Spark were treated like men. [. . .] I remember a man sneering at me at a dinner party circa 1975: "Women have no tradition." Actually, they had, and here was some of it in print.'
The Guardian article above also references Elaine Showalter's seminal work A Literature of Their Own: British Women Novelists From Brontë to Lessing published by Virago 1982 after the original publication in the U.S.I was fortunate to be introduced to Showalter's books back in 1994 when I was a student in the states. But this is the first time - I've understood the connection to Virago. It's really interesting to see the influences in all directions of this women only publishing house.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/201...A second link - another great Guardian article (2013)- it references Virago's influence on other women only publishing houses and literary prizes.
Of interest to me in this article is the concern women writers have reference their subject - women who write about men for instance are taken more seriously - again Hilary Mantel's series featuring Thomas Cromwell. In 2013 - for every 20 fiction books that a man read - only one was by a woman, whereas it was 6 out of 20 for women.
I think it's important to keep in mind - where we stand now - because of the work done by women over the last 50 years, to change the attitude to women's writing - to make it a serious contender for the big prizes and to put women's books back on the shelves.
Mod
Mela wrote: "Laura, I would like to suggest that you open a new thread about the history and the future of VMC, etc. This thread I have opened for the discussion about the themes in VMC books. Let's keep a bit ..."This thread is entitled - "About VMC books". Yes, I can open a History thread - I thought only moderators can open new threads?
But also history and themes are intricately connected - how Callil chose and included new titles - is connected to the issue of themes.
Maybe we should have a thread also on where members source their books?
I find VINTED - to be really good - I'm based in Portugal and don't have access to any libraries or second-hand shops and agree with Cphe especially about Amazon U.S. - massively expensive and Amazon U.K. are also useless for European buyers - as we are charged import taxes. I have used Amazon.es (Spain) - which has good and fast delivery to Portugal - but they don't have such a great range as the UK suppliers.
VINTED is a very good option - for anyone based in Europe; they have plenty of titles in English (Viragos included) - but good also if you can read in French, Spanish etc.
Virago Modern Classics
Books mentioned in this topic
A Literature of Their Own: British Women Novelists From Brontë to Lessing (other topics)The Hours Before Dawn (other topics)
Frost in May (other topics)
Lady Audley's Secret (other topics)
The Semi-Attached Couple and the Semi-Detached House (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Elaine Showalter (other topics)Shena Mackay (other topics)
Elsa Triolet (other topics)
Antonia White (other topics)
If you need to catch up on the discussion that started in the other thread - look here but please comment here (not there).